Beaver vs Rabbit

[Snapbrim76]

Ok, so we all know that beaver will last longer and also the Raiders hat was Rabbit. But are there any big differences, looks wise? e.g. The stiff beaver won't go floppy for that distorted brim with 'the turn'

Is it that beaver will never go floppy at all?

The only beaver hat I own is a cowboy hat and I haven't really had time (or the nerve, living in a CITY) to wear it in.

What say you COW?

[binkmeisterRick]

Rabbit:



Beaver:


No offense, Sanapbrim, and please don't take this as being mean, but there's PLENTY of information on the subject of beaver versus rabbit all over the hat section. It's been discussed so many times and in so many ways. The best advice I can give you is to pull up your chair with a good beverage and snack and just read through the hat section for a while.

[DR Ulloa]

Beaver can be as floppy as rabbit, but it will take longer for it to get to that maximum floppy zone. You can get the turn with beaver. My Penman is turned and it looks great. Most of the ABs out there are turned and beaver. I tried turning my CS AB and it looked beautiful. Beaver wins over rabbit every time.

Dave

[Michaelson]

Beaver hats can be as floppy as a limp rag right out of the box, and rabbit as hard as corregated cardboard.

It's all in how much stiffner is in the felt, and NOT necessarily by the material itself.

Regards! Michaelson

[jlee562]

Beaver hats can be as floppy as a limp rag right out of the box, and rabbit as hard as corregated cardboard.

It's all in how much stiffner is in the felt, and NOT necessarily by the material itself.

Regards! Michaelson

This is true too.....my two current hats (ordering an AB today or tomorrow) are an Adventurer and Fed IV, both rabbit. The Christy's is a much softer felt, you can tell just by looking at it. The Fed IV is stiff as a rock! I couldn't even bash it right without a little bit of steam.

[CairoIndy]

I love my Beaver hat!

[Ranger36]

[Texan Scott]

No question about the durability of beaver felt. I like the color of the AB Henry, which is a little lighter, and a 80/20 blend.

[Mulceber]

Beaver hats can be as floppy as a limp rag right out of the box, and rabbit as hard as corregated cardboard.

It's all in how much stiffner is in the felt, and NOT necessarily by the material itself.

Regards! Michaelson

I would argue no, it's not all about the stiffener. That's a big component, yes, but it also has to do with the fact that beaver felt is just plain denser than rabbit, and thus it's not going to naturally be as floppy. Also, due to the nature of beaver it requires a touch of stiffener in it in order to hold it's shape. Rabbit doesn't. At least, that's what Fedora told me back when I was ordering my first hat from him. That said, beaver can be made to be very floppy (as evidenced by the latest batch of AB's), while rabbit can, as Michaelson said, be stiff as a board (as evidenced by the early PB customs). But I would contend that if you took a beaver body and a rabbit body without any stiffener in either of them, the rabbit body would be somewhat more floppy. -M

[Restless Dreamer]

Beaver wins over rabbit every time.

except for the SOC style, in my opinion. as far as I have seen, beaver and beaver blends tend to resist very much to distress.

So, if you are looking for a hat that can be good for an Indy style wear but also for a "normal" wear, beaver is better. but if you are going to beat your hat, make it dirty and dusty and so on, don't waste your time with beaver

[Snapbrim76]

the reason I asked this question to begin with was because of posts saying that only rabbit looks true Indy. Is that because beaver doesn't ever look beaten up? I'm gonna buy a beaver Raiders hat. I don't mind if it looks clean and tidy, as long as I can get that SoC shape; distorted brim with 'the turn'.

[Michaelson]

But I would contend that if you took a beaver body and a rabbit body without any stiffener in either of them, the rabbit body would be somewhat more floppy. -M

I have owned examples of both, and have not found that to be so. They have been exactly the same....actually more so with the beaver due to it's denser locking felt.

Is that because beaver doesn't ever look beaten up?

Seriously, snapbrim, as bink recommended, you're going to HAVE to do some reading through the hat forum. Some of the best looking SoC hats we've had posted here have been both rabbit AND beaver.....

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

Much of it also has to do with the weight of each felt. I got a lighweight pure beaver body in once, from Portugal, very thin, and as floppy as any rabbit I have ever seen. So, a couple variables are involved.

Beaver tends to felt much tighter than rabbit, so you do get more "body" or stiffness due to the density of beaver, but then again, the weight enters into the equation. A lightweight beaver hat acts more like rabbit. The lightweight body I had, and made a hat of, would be dented by a falling leaf. And that's pretty darn soft. But you will only see this in a lightweight thin beaver body. Get one that is heavier, and the density of the fur adds a natural stiffness, although nothing like adding shellac.

Generally speaking though, a rabbit hat will always be floppier, and that is why most factories add shellac to the rabbit. Without it, some hats would be like a wet noodle. The brims. I say "some" because another variable is involved. Depending upon the factory, some rabbit felt is just denser, than others. The more dense the rabbit felt, the higher quality it is. Needless to say, many factories run the felts quick, and don't produce tight rabbit, but a few do. You pay more for the tighter felted rabbit bodies.

Some of the best bodies are used for the Hasidic Jewish folks. Hope I spelled that right. If you could get one of these bodies in brown instead of the black, you would have a mighty fine hat, and the creme ala creme of felt. And it is probably the most expensive body made today. Fedora

[Michaelson]

Much of it also has to do with the weight of each felt. I got a lighweight pure beaver body in once, from Portugal, very thin, and as floppy as any rabbit I have ever seen.

A lightweight beaver hat acts more like rabbit. The lightweight body I had, and made a hat of, would be dented by a falling leaf. And that's pretty darn soft. Fedora

I know. I have it now, remember?

Regard! Michaelson

[Fedora]

I know. I have it now, remember?

I sure do!!! How could I forget that? How did that hat hold up, being so light and all? I have meant to ask you, then forgot about it. I actually had to put some shellac in that hat so I could make it!!! Hard to work with a noodle, but the Raider fans would have loved the stock softness. Fedora

[Michaelson]

Actually, it's held up very well to date, and a very good weight hat for this warm weather.

Like you said, all it takes is a sideways glance to dent in the crown, but it's the one I wore out to Arizona/Las Vegas a couple years ago and did yoeman work there. A GREAT travel hat!

It could use a little TLC from it's maker....but I'm sure you might have a few jobs ahead of it at the moment.

Regards! Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

Much of it also has to do with the weight of each felt. I got a lighweight pure beaver body in once, from Portugal, very thin, and as floppy as any rabbit I have ever seen... The lightweight body I had, and made a hat of, would be dented by a falling leaf. And that's pretty darn soft. But you will only see this in a lightweight thin beaver body.

*Sigh* This is the kind I felt I dream of finding in a hat. Who wants my business?

[Michaelson]

Yeah, please....someone give bink the 'business'.....

er....



Regards! Michaelson

[Snapbrim76]

Thanks guys. I appreciate your opinions. Steve you're a legend

[DR Ulloa]

Much of it also has to do with the weight of each felt. I got a lighweight pure beaver body in once, from Portugal, very thin, and as floppy as any rabbit I have ever seen... The lightweight body I had, and made a hat of, would be dented by a falling leaf. And that's pretty darn soft. But you will only see this in a lightweight thin beaver body.

*Sigh* This is the kind I felt I dream of finding in a hat. Who wants my business?

This is my favorite kind of felt too. Its sad that we can't really find this kind of stuff anymore.

Dave

[Michaelson]

Like Steve said, they DO still make it in Portugal...it's just finding someone who is willing to order a HUGE bulk order of the stuff, as they won't just sell a few cones to a hat maker. You have to purchase a truckload.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

Like Steve said, they DO still make it in Portugal...it's just finding someone who is willing to order a HUGE bulk order of the stuff, as they won't just sell a few cones to a hat maker. You have to purchase a truckload.

Yep, Portugal will make you any kind of fur felt you desire. But you would have to buy a big order, unless they have changed the way they do business. I think the lightweight pure beaver is something they may sell a little bit of, but I don't know anyone who actually uses it. I found it almost impossible to work by hand. Sewing in the sweat and installing the ribbon was a nightmare. It was that soft. I finally succumbed and sprayed shellac on it, so I could work it up for Michaelson. But being topically applied, I knew most of it would break down quite fast. Fedora

[Michaelson]

It did.

Regards! Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

Now I just need a smily showing me stealing that hat from Michaelson.

[Michaelson]

[mississippilong]

I love my Beaver hat!

this kills me.

[gobo]

CairoIndy, your beaver hat is going to give me nightmares. It looks like you're being eaten by either Chip or Dale.

[mississippilong]

CairoIndy, your beaver hat is going to give me nightmares. It looks like you're being eaten by either Chip or Dale.

it's Chip. Dale had a red nose.

[BendingOak]

CairoIndy, your beaver hat is going to give me nightmares. It looks like you're being eaten by either Chip or Dale.

Black nose, that would be chip.

[DR Ulloa]

Chip was also the one that wore an Indy style fedora in the Chip n' Dale Rescue Rangers cartoon show. But I'm probably theonly one that remembers that. Maybe it was beaver?

Dave

[BendingOak]

but, can you tell me why they where called chip and dale?

[binkmeisterRick]

Because Chip and Dip was already taken?

[Ranger36]

[Michaelson]

but, can you tell me why they where called chip and dale?

Internet search to the rescue!!

" Chip 'n Dale are two animated chipmunks created by The Walt Disney Company. Their names are a pun based on the name "Chippendale" (see Thomas Chippendale). This was suggested by Bill "Tex" Henson, a story artist at the studio. Originally the two had the same colored noses, but as a way to tell them apart, Chip was given a black nose and Dale was given a red nose.

...and before someone asks 'who was Thomas Chippendale?', he was a famous furniture maker in 18th century London.

Regards! Michaelson

[Ranger36]

All knowing Michealson!

[Michaelson]

[Indiana Kev]

Also important to note that Chip's two front teeth were together, while Dale's two front teeth have a gap between them.

and I have a pic of me and the rescue rangers somewhere...