Club Obi Wan

Does the Akubra Fed IV do the trick?

blueoakleyz wrote:Does the Akubra Fed IV do the trick?

From the examples I've seen, some do and some don't-- I think 3thoubuck's Winston 360 and Fedoraider's SOC look fantastic, but they are customized. The Fed lV's crown seems too "squat" and rounded for my taste-- almost like a derby. It's the blockshape, not the measurements, and obviously many disagree as it is very popular.

I've seen more examples of the Christys Adventurer that I felt were extremely close to SA. Based on looks alone, I think it's the most accurate low cost Indy hat available. There is the question of how you intend to use the hat, though. If it's going to get a lot of rough abuse and harsh weather, the Fed lV might be a better choice.

Penman has developed an outstanding reputation here for delivering quality AND SA at very affordable prices, and there is also the new company formed by Fedora's protege, Garrison Hats. So, lots of choices-- more than ever before.

Jack

As mentioned by eazybox you have the Penman and the Garrison Hats Raider (both around the $250-$300 mark) and the Christys Adventurer (which has a great LC blockshape), but there is also the AB Henry (at an introduction price of E 175,- including worldwide shipping) which is a 20% beaver/80% rabit hat. IMO it is a great hat and also looks pretty SA (search for Bullit's Henry to see it's potential) Yes it is a factory hat and not a handmade custom, but believe me when I say it's worth every penny.

Regards, Geert

Neither the Federation nor the Christy's is VERY SA, as you put it. Neither has the right block shape for screen accuracy. If you want the most SA hat possible, you go to Penman, AB, AB Deluxe, or Garrison. These are the only hats that stack up when talking about SA. All the others fall short. As far as pricing goes, the Penman is the most affordable, at $225 for a custom rabbit hat. These four are it, as far as I am concerned.

Dave

Not regarding the bow, but I believe the Christys is pretty SA blockshape-wise for an LC hat.

I'm only saying this because he didn't specify Raiders. If he means SA for Raiders, I agree with you Dave. (still want the Henry included though, but maybe it's implied with the mention of AB )

Regards, Geert

If you are talking about LC, then the Christy's will pull it off. I would remove the ribbon and bow and stitch it all on again, however, as it is awful. I overlooked that. Thanks, Geert.

Dave

The Christys is also excellent for a TOD suspension bridge or elephant ride look, in my opinion. But again, it just comes close to screen accuracy; if, as you say, you want something VERY SA, you need to pay more for it. But not all that much more.

Jack

Steve and John's ToD and LC hats are far more SA than the Christy's, in my opinion. Crismans and Han have Penman ToD hats and thatguyno1 has an AB ToD and those are the most SA I've seen.

Dave

The ribbon and bow work on the Christys must vary, because mine looks fine to me for the price, but I have seen some terrible examples in photos. Yes, the Henry looks very good as well, and so does Peters Bros. I wish I'd had these many choices when I was starting out.

Jack

DR Ulloa wrote:Steve and John's ToD and LC hats are far more SA than the Christy's, in my opinion. Crismans and Han have Penman ToD hats and thatguyno1 has an AB ToD and those are the most SA I've seen.

Dave

Well, that depends on how you define "far more"-- most people would not notice much difference at all, I don't think-- not even most Indy fans. Just us super critical gearheads.

Jack

blueo'....give us YOUR definition of 'affordable'. As you can see, others opinions may vary.

What kind of price range are YOU requiring? Once that price range has been stated, THEN let the discussion begin would be my suggestion.

I'd also like to personally request that those who love to post (and you KNOW who you are) 'save your money and buy 'this' or 'that', please don't. Let's offer some sound advice based on the criteria posted by the requester this time. Please?

Regards! Michaelson

But since we are a group of gear heads and were asked what the minimum cost of a VERY SaA hat was, I'd say it needs to be said. Otherwise, we are just settling for SA, when what is wanted is VERY SA. Custom hats are not for everyone. Not everyone sees the point in dishing out the extra cash for a handmade hat and thats fine. Thats why there are both factory and handmade hats, to satisfy both camps. But, it is my opinion that the only to get the MOST SA Indy hat, regardless of which film, is to go custom. Some factory hats come close (The Christy's does pull off a nice LC look and the AB Henry pulls off a great Raiders look) but if you want the most SA available, you go custom becuase they can do whatever you want done and whatever you think will make your hat more SA.

Dave

types faster than I do, it seems.

Thats a very good point. If you tell us what you want to spend, we can direct you to the most SA hat within that budget. There are good looking hats at every price range.

Dave

I agree completely, Dave, and I also agree with Michaelson that the price range needs to be clarified. He did bring up the Fed lV, which led me to believe he wanted to stay on the thrifty side.

Jack

And seems like EVERYBODY types faster than me!

Jack

SA and thrifty do not keep company together, though. I'm a huge advocate for custom hats becuase I believe that a hat should fit the person wearing it. But, if an exact replica of the film hat is what is wanted, that can be done as well. With a factory hat, what you see is what you get and some look good. The Federation is a good hat but I don't think it makes a for very SA Indy hat. It is a good close enough, but we are not talking about close enough here. Blue wants a very SA hat. Blue, your going ot have to pay. You don't need to dish out half a grand, but you will find that you these won't be introductory priced hats. You can get nice hats for any price, though, and they will fit the bill.

Dave

Also keep in mind your head shape may help define SA. I have a FedIV which a really like, but couldn't get it "SA" enough to keep it as an Indy hat. Holt, however, also got a FedIV, in the same size as me, and he made his very SA in my opinion. Same hat size, but different head shape.

Yes, Holt's Federation is one of the best looking ones I've seen. Head shape: another reason to go custom.

Dave

Michaelson wrote:blueo'....give us YOUR definition of 'affordable'. As you can see, others opinions may vary.

What kind of price range are YOU requiring? Once that price range has been stated, THEN let the discussion begin would be my suggestion.

I'd also like to personally request that those who love to post (and you KNOW who you are) 'save your money and buy 'this' or 'that', please don't. Let's offer some sound advice based on the criteria posted by the requester this time. Please?

Regards! Michaelson

I usually avoid commenting on this kind of discussion, but I'd like to throw something in here -
blueo', I remember your lengthy, seemingly circular jacket threads: you had an open dialog in a way that a lot of us have internal conversations. You seemed to ask the same questions over and over again, slightly tweaking them. To a lot of other people, it seemed like you were beating a dead horse, but you had a picture in your head and you wanted to get " just that thing".
Now, while you might want to pare down some of the redundancy, I'd treat your hat situation the same way. I'd like to put a different spin on the 'save your money and get this' and say "GET THIS, AND YOU'LL BE SAVING MONEY".
While I've been a fan for many a year, and a hat wearer for as long, I haven't really been collecting gear, per se, 'til fairly recently. Early on, caught up in the excitement, I wanted to have everything as quickly as possible. As a result, I ended up with a Halloween costume that everyone recognized as Indiana Jones. Buuuuuut... I've had to double back on a lot of things, and will have to continue to do so, because of either lack of research, lack of funds, or simply jumping the gun on things. Being a hat guy, I'd like to say: this is not something you want to jump the gun on or go cheap. You will end up saving money in the long run. I'm not just talking Indy here either. I've gone through all of this with a pretty decent hat collection ( vin. and modern ).
I think the endorsement of the Federation is very solid. It's a good hat that goes with a lot of stuff and will last. It also fits your bill of inexpensive. For a 360 degree investment to payoff ratio, I don't think you can beat it.
HOWEVER -
I have been fortunate enough to pick up an Adventurebilt. SA debates aside, it seems to be all the things people say it is with regards to construction, durability, etc... Plus, to feels good to have the pedegree. Again, I realize I am extremely fortunate in this regard. But knowing what I know now, and seeing myself spending the money all over again for whatever Indy hats I've had ( about 5 or 6 all together ), I would order the PENMAN.
Let's say, for debate's sake, each of my hats was only $100 dollars. That's $600 looking for THE hat. I could have dropped it for the PENMAN and been done with it, as far as Indy style hats go. While I do not have a Penman, that is why I mentioned the Adventurebilt. By all accounts, these hats are VERY similar in construction and materials. The cost and particularly the wait times on the Penman are SIGNIFICANTLY less, and in the long run, if an Indy hat is what you're looking for, you'll be saving money.
Obviously, there's a lot of fun to be had in experimenting, and all the hats mentioned above have their merits ( scene specificity, cost, avail., etc...), and I still regularly cycle through all my Indy hats ( as well as the rest of my hats ) because they all have their own personality. But for one hat, I think you should A) consider it an investment, B) consider the general sense of "ownership" in having a custom, and C) recognize that in the long run, it really is the cheapest way to go.

Another important question is this: how do you plan to use your hat? Are you going to wear it every day or do you want it only as a display or occasional costume piece? If you plan on wearing this as a serious every day hat, then quality within your yet-to-be-stated price range makes sense. However, if you aren't going to do anything but keep the hat on a shelf, then spending the money on a high end hat may not the best idea, either. Your thread title tells me you are probably not the type of collector who MUST have the original gear by the original maker down to the last stitch kind of guy. Again, you need to assess what your personal needs are and go from there.

Kiltie nailed it!

I too am fortunate enough to own Penmans and ABs and I can tell you that the construction top notch on both. The materials are the same, down to the elusive ribbon. Buyone one of these will save you money in the long run, as Kiltie's wisomde tells. The Penman significantly less expensive and the wait time is great. You want VERY SA? Get either of these two hats.

Dave

I recognized myself in Kiltie's post. Over the years I've owned about 30 different Indy style hats, trying to get just the right one. It is like having an itch on an area of your back that you can't quite reach.

That itch was finally scratched and relieved after I found this site and obtained some of the fine hats available here. Now, my attitude toward the whole subject has relaxed a great deal and I see things differently. I'm not sure if that's because the itch was finally scratched, or if I've just matured enought to realize that there are more important things in life than SA. I honestly think that if I were just starting out today, the Christy' Adventurer would be the only hat I'd really need. I know-- blasphemy. So lynch me.

Anyway, if you have the same "itch" as I once had, you'll probably save yourself a lot of money and frustration by saving up for one really great custom hat instead of working your way through a disappointing series of inexpensive compromizes.

Jack

gwyddion wrote:Not regarding the bow, but I believe the Christys is pretty SA blockshape-wise for an LC hat.

I'm only saying this because he didn't specify Raiders. If he means SA for Raiders, I agree with you Dave. (still want the Henry included though, but maybe it's implied with the mention of AB )

Regards, Geert

Yes anything from any of the movies could apply..

Maybe I should have split into two groups though.. hats with everything right as far as color, ribbon, felt etc and then everything that's VERY SA

Michaelson wrote:blueo'....give us YOUR definition of 'affordable'. As you can see, others opinions may vary.

What kind of price range are YOU requiring? Once that price range has been stated, THEN let the discussion begin would be my suggestion.

I'd also like to personally request that those who love to post (and you KNOW who you are) 'save your money and buy 'this' or 'that', please don't. Let's offer some sound advice based on the criteria posted by the requester this time. Please?

Regards! Michaelson

I'm more curious than anything to be honest.
I made it fairly ambiguous though but you guys would know what's 'very SA' more than I would.

A bit TOO ambiguous, I'm afraid.

Ok, folks....I guess anything goes then....

Regards! Michaelson

DR Ulloa wrote:But since we are a group of gear heads and were asked what the minimum cost of a VERY SaA hat was, I'd say it needs to be said. Otherwise, we are just settling for SA, when what is wanted is VERY SA. Custom hats are not for everyone. Not everyone sees the point in dishing out the extra cash for a handmade hat and thats fine. Thats why there are both factory and handmade hats, to satisfy both camps. But, it is my opinion that the only to get the MOST SA Indy hat, regardless of which film, is to go custom. Some factory hats come close (The Christy's does pull off a nice LC look and the AB Henry pulls off a great Raiders look) but if you want the most SA available, you go custom becuase they can do whatever you want done and whatever you think will make your hat more SA.

Dave

Oh hmm I was thinking very SA more along the lines of like 90% of completely SA instead of 110% so to speak. I should really put more thought into making topics like this lol

Maybe it would be easier to explain what ISNT SA about some of the cheaper options?

I'm not looking to buy anytime soon.. money isn't the real issue I'm just curious what the minimum is. I suppose if anything you could say I'd want it more for a collectable and costume piece

blueoakleyz wrote: Maybe I should have split into two groups though.. hats with everything right as far as color, ribbon, felt etc and then everything that's VERY SA

I thought the ribbon, color, felt, etc., is what makes the hats SA or not to begin with.

But without the qualifier of what kind of budget you're looking at, it's difficult to fairly answer your question. But since you just said money's not the issue, the thread seems a bit moot. Some folks may only have $50 to work with, in which case it greatly affects the answer as to which hat is the most SA for a minimum amount of money. There's plenty of discussion regarding the price of hats versus value, and even more as to "buy this hat or that one." If you're only curious, there are plenty of threads which could answer your question. But if you seriously have a specific budget in mind, then the qualifier of what the budget is keeps to what the thread should be about. By the current sound of it, it looks like you'd be better off spending some time in the archives as it's all been asked and answered many times before.

There is no budget.. I'm just curious what the minimum might be. What SA is to you guys well.. @#$% I should have realized what a big issue that is. My bad.. I also specified VERY which is actually 'higher' than just plain ol' SA. Here's what I sorta meant

VERY screen INaccurate
http://www.uswings.com/IJoilclothhatdetail.html
screen inaccurate
http://www.indianajoneshats.net/catalog/pages/IJ559.htm
Pretty SA
http://hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Fur%20Felts

X

VERY screen accurate
http://www.adventurebilthats.com/


I'm curious about the X.. the sorta right in between.

Your first 2 examples don't even make it on the not-SA List around here. The last one would be on the list of not-very SA.


I never understood the logic of having just 50 dollars for a hat and buy something you are just going throw in the trash real soon. If you have less money to spend it would make more sense to me to not waste any of it. Better to save up and wait for a high quality hat that will last you a life time, then keep wasting 50 dollars every year or so. You'll end up at the bigger price tag anyway and not have as nice of a hat.

blueoakleyz wrote:There is no budget.. I'm just curious what the minimum might be. What SA is to you guys well.. @#$% I should have realized what a big issue that is. My bad.. I also specified VERY which is actually 'higher' than just plain ol' SA. Here's what I sorta meant

VERY screen INaccurate
http://www.uswings.com/IJoilclothhatdetail.html
screen inaccurate
http://www.indianajoneshats.net/catalog/pages/IJ559.htm
Pretty SA
http://hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Fur%20Felts

X

VERY screen accurate
http://www.adventurebilthats.com/


I'm curious about the X.. the sorta right in between.

In my opinion, the only person who can answer that question is you, through looking and studying. You'll get as many different answers and perspectives as there are members here, but the sorta in between "X" factor is in the eye of the beholder, and only you can recognize what that means for you by discovering it for yourself.

Jack

eazybox wrote:

blueoakleyz wrote:There is no budget.. I'm just curious what the minimum might be. What SA is to you guys well.. @#$% I should have realized what a big issue that is. My bad.. I also specified VERY which is actually 'higher' than just plain ol' SA. Here's what I sorta meant

VERY screen INaccurate
http://www.uswings.com/IJoilclothhatdetail.html
screen inaccurate
http://www.indianajoneshats.net/catalog/pages/IJ559.htm
Pretty SA
http://hornetshats.com/f_hatview.php?link=Fur%20Felts

X

VERY screen accurate
http://www.adventurebilthats.com/


I'm curious about the X.. the sorta right in between.

In my opinion, the only person who can answer that question is you, through looking and studying. You'll get as many different answers and perspectives as there are members here, but the sorta in between "X" factor is in the eye of the beholder, and only you can recognize what that means for you by discovering it for yourself.

Jack

Thats not helpful at all. Yes , people can have an opinion but sometimes facts are facts.

You can throw a fo-leather hat at someone and say it's SA. You can't just give someone a black fedora to someone and say thats SA. It's not n the eye of the beholder sometimes some can see things more clearly than others.

Oak, I was just suggesting that the guy do his own research and find out for himself what he likes. That's the only way anyone can be really sure.

Geez... lately, you can't express an opinion or even make any innocent comment here without someone jumping all over you. The jacket section has been the champ in the contentious and disagreeable area, but I see the fedora section is on its way to catching up.

Jack

An internet forum is not the best place to converse with people. So much is lost in HOW things are said. I'm learning to curb my temper when I THINK someone is insulting me and telling myself that if we had spoken in person, I would not have had a problem with it.

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:An internet forum is not the best place to converse with people. So much is lost in HOW things are said. I'm learning to curb my temper when I THINK someone is insulting me and telling myself that if we had spoken in person, I would not have had a problem with it.

Dave

I didn't think Oak was insulting, but now that you mention it...

I guess that's why smilies were invented. But no, I was just expressing wonderment. I see a lot of what seems to me to be disagreement for disagreement's sake. I find it interesting and puzzling, but it doesn't bother me.

Jack

I'm Cuban/Spanish, so I came out of the womb arguing and yelling. I try not to get too worked up most of the time but the internet doesn't help as I can't put a face to the person I'm writing to. This makes things really impersonal. I don't like it. But if it means I get to hang with you guys, I don't ming.

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:I'm Cuban/Spanish, so I came out of the womb arguing and yelling. I try not to get too worked up most of the time but the internet doesn't help as I can't put a face to the person I'm writing to. This makes things really impersonal. I don't like it. But if it means I get to hang with you guys, I don't ming.

Dave

Tell me about it; I'm Italian/Irish/German.

Jack

Your louder than I am!

Dave

eazybox wrote:

DR Ulloa wrote:An internet forum is not the best place to converse with people. So much is lost in HOW things are said. I'm learning to curb my temper when I THINK someone is insulting me and telling myself that if we had spoken in person, I would not have had a problem with it.

Dave

I didn't think Oak was insulting, but now that you mention it...

I guess that's why smilies were invented. But no, I was just expressing wonderment. I see a lot of what seems to me to be disagreement for disagreement's sake. I find it interesting and puzzling, but it doesn't bother me.

Jack

I'm sorry if you took it as insulting you. I was just disagree with you. I think the guy asked a question and shouldn't get "do your own reseach" from us.

I didn't take it as an insult, Oak, but I think you either didn't understand me or I didn't express myself clearly enough. When he does his own research, he won't be entirely on his own, he'll be taking into account the opinions and experience of all the experts and weighing them in order to reach his own conclusions. That's what I meant.Hopefully that's what this thread will help him do.

Jack

Blue, I think you should ask this question when you are ready to buy a hat. You don't know if you will have some extra cahs lying around and you might want to step up to something a little better. My suggestion would be the same as Kiltie and Oak's: Save! If you save for a hat, when you are ready to get one, it will be a great hat that won't need to be thrown away in a year or two.

Dave

eazybox wrote:Oak, I was just suggesting that the guy do his own research and find out for himself what he likes. That's the only way anyone can be really sure.

Geez... lately, you can't express an opinion or even make any innocent comment here without someone jumping all over you. The jacket section has been the champ in the contentious and disagreeable area, but I see the fedora section is on its way to catching up.

Jack

Apparently

It's all subjective opinion that's all I'm curious about

Let's start with the two cheapest options I can think of, the Fed IV and Adventurer, what makes them NOT SA?

Anyway i'm just more curious than anything, not looking to buy another hat anytime soon

Block shape, ribbon, bow, crown height (though thats directed specifically at the Christy's). The Christy's gets close to the color, but I'd say once an AB or Penman break in, they are the closest.

Dave

Just responding to your question about Christys and Fed lV: As someone who has owned several vintage HJ's, I think the Christys comes very close in appearance, although the quality of the materials of the newer ones are not as good as those from the 1990's. In case you don't know, the Christys is believed to be exactly the same as a modern HJ, without that expensive brand name.

The biggest problem with the Christys seems to be the bow work on some of the hats. The brim at 3 inches front and back is also a little too wide for SA. But they will trim it for you if you desire. You may also be able to have them adjust the crown height to your preference.

As I mentioned before, the Fed is very popular. It seems to be of very good quality and sturdily put together. I believe it was modeled after the CS hat and I've seen some excellent examples of that. The Raiders Feds, for me, are more problematical. I've seen great looking ones and others that barely looked like Indy hats to me. According to some owners, the Fed's color is also a good deal away from being accurate. Looking through the Fed lV and Christys threads might help you decide between the two.

Jack

blue, I thought you already own a Fed IV.

eazybox wrote:

blueoakleyz wrote:Does the Akubra Fed IV do the trick?

From the examples I've seen, some do and some don't-- I think 3thoubuck's Winston 360 and Fedoraider's SOC look fantastic, but they are customized. The Fed lV's crown seems too "squat" and rounded for my taste-- almost like a derby. It's the blockshape, not the measurements, and obviously many disagree as it is very popular.
Jack

Nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

twilekjedi wrote:blue, I thought you already own a Fed IV.

Yep I do. Very happy with it. I'm not looking to buy another one in the near future. Just curious.

So you want to know if your hat "does the trick?"

I'm not understanding this now. Why ask if a hat is "VERY SA" after already having the hat?

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:So you want to know if your hat "does the trick?"

I'm not understanding this now. Why ask if a hat is "VERY SA" after already having the hat?

Dave

Just curiosity. I'm just simply simply simply curious (keyword of the thread) as what the minimum someone would have to spend for mostly SA (that's the word I should have used, mostly)

I think the question is what do you mean by 'SA'?
If you mean, "so close only a gearhead hatmaker would quibble" you will never find the perfect SA hat for any price.
If you mean, "close enough that even non-gearheads will only think of Indy when they see it" then any of the hats mentioned above is good.
Subtleties of block-shape and crown-curvature aside they all have nearly the same basic dimensions so I think a skillful bash wil make or break the 'SA-ness'.
And of course if you are happy with the results that's all that matters

Well you ask a very interesting question. I would say the best bank per buck would be an AB Henry bashed by Stefan. Unless you don't want it bashed, it will save you a little cash.

Take a look at this thread and decide for yourself. My next hat is an AB Henry.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40721

IndianaChris