Club Obi Wan

I've found this very intersting (and sometimes funny) reenactment site with an article talking about color differences on military web equipments and various pieces of the uniforms: At the Front

NOTE: Must go into the section "U.S." then click on the link "To learn all about "khaki" in the centre of the page.

This article talking about differences in WWII USA equipment but I think it is also answer to all the old questions about Indy's MkVII and shirt color differences. Yes, because USA WWII reenactors have our identical color problems, referring often at movie pics or screengrabs ("Saving Privare Ryan" or "Band of Brothers" for example) where colors seems to never ever correspond to costume or real pieces.

Hope you enjoy reding it!

At last...someone to share our pain

Hollowpond wrote:At last...someone to share our pain

As an ex-graphic designer I can shed some [coloured] light on why no colour is absolute. Basically the ONLY way to match the colour of two items is to actually see them together for yourself.
If you care to read on, here's why.
The first hint is in the first sentence. From dawn to dusk the direct light striking an object changes colour and intensity, that's obvious.
However that's just the start of it.
All surfaces reflect light and add their colour to the ambient light of a space.
Human perception adjusts to this in each setting it's true ,but change setting and your mental filter that sees things 'as they should be' not as they ARE takes a few moments to catch up: We have all stepped out on a sunny day to see how warm and yellow the light seems. Within a few minutes, if you give it any thought, that same light appears neutral white.
The angle at which the light strikes decides if most or hardly any of the colour of a surface is added to the light striking it.
The many tiny shadows in surface texture pick up reflected light and throw that into the mix. So even chemically identical paints will look different in the same light on different surfaces.
Then there's reproduction:
Every film, digital camera, scanner, printer and TV or computer screen has its own unique colour caste. I mean EVERY one, not just every type. Temperature, age, operating power and atmosphere all have unique effects.
Then you have the ambience of the room in which it is viewed compared to the ambience of the room where the image was made.
Finally and ironically, the film maker may have used colour filters during shooting, and digital colour balancing during post-production, in an attempt to even all the above out.
It's exasperating!
...And you wonder why I'm an EX graphic designer?

Some of us still have that affliction, enigmata_wood.

The Impressionist painter Monet also did a number of painting series where he painted the same exact scene at different times of day to show how colors change at different times of day. In fact, he painted them with several canvases directly next to each other so when the light reached a certain point, he'd stop working on one canvas and move to the next.

binkmeisterRick wrote: Some of us still have that affliction, enigmata_wood.

The Impressionist painter Monet also did a number of painting series where he painted the same exact scene at different times of day to show how colors change at different times of day. In fact, he painted them with several canvases directly next to each other so when the light reached a certain point, he'd stop working on one canvas and move to the next.

The very definition of walking the line between madness and genius

Indeed! Pity he went blind in his old age.

People always want these things to be perfect, for everything to match and all be the same. Unfortunately that isn't reality and we just have to come to accept it.

You cannot compare US military equipment colours with British military.

Generally, earlier (pre and early WW2) US webbing had a brown/Khaki colouration, later was more green (OD). There was a specification colour change. Within each of these you will find slight variations in shade, this even though there was a 'standard' for the colours.

British and Commonwealth equipment pre and throughout the war was brown/khaki, with the colour changed sometimes by use of 'Web dressing'
British and commonwealth webbing didn't go to a more green colour until about 1950. (even then the previous colour can be found on web items manufactured after this. Some '37 pattern' continued to be made and these were almost always still in the previous colour)
That doesn't preclude some items or materials made for the War having more green shade, such as the canvas used in the gas mask bags. Colour variation becomes more distinct with later production items, perhaps because of change in materials availability and less concern over colour variances during the war.

Sorry it's just the way it is. Lay out 100 unissued gas mask bags and most if not all will have colour/shade variations.
The same applies to articles of Combat/Battle uniform, even though there was a 'standard' for those as well.

and of course does one want it the colour it was made or the colour it becomes that shows it's antique and somehow more 'authentic'?
Indy's gear is all faded, stained and scuffed or we wouldn't find it appealing.

Exactly enigmata_wood

I'm a US WWII reenactor and I have bought all of my uniforms and equipment from "At the Front". It's a great vendor.

He is hilarious! Everybody wants their gear and uniforms to be "khaki" and he has constantly explained that there is no "khaki" for US GI uniforms and equipment. Everything is the proper OD color. The reason everything looks khaki on movies like "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" is because of the way it was filmed. Steven Spielberg says that they were filmed to look like it was a WWII documentary...or something to that extent.

"At the Front" is a great place to shop if you're interested in WWII uniforms and gear. But if you ever buy something from him and it's not "khaki" enough for you...then just look at the real uniforms! The colors are all different shades of OD! Some uniforms and gear may be more "khaki" than others, but even it's more green, it's still proper. That's the point "At the Front" tries to make.

He gets really angry at the "khaki Nazis". Go to www.atthefront.com to see some of his comments!!

Mississippi Jones wrote:I'm a US WWII reenactor and I have bought all of my uniforms and equipment from "At the Front". It's a great vendor.

He is hilarious! Everybody wants their gear and uniforms to be "khaki" and he has constantly explained that there is no "khaki" for US GI uniforms and equipment. Everything is the proper OD color. The reason everything looks khaki on movies like "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" is because of the way it was filmed. Steven Spielberg says that they were filmed to look like it was a WWII documentary...or something to that extent.

"At the Front" is a great place to shop if you're interested in WWII uniforms and gear. But if you ever buy something from him and it's not "khaki" enough for you...then just look at the real uniforms! The colors are all different shades of OD! Some uniforms and gear may be more "khaki" than others, but even it's more green, it's still proper. That's the point "At the Front" tries to make.

He gets really angry at the "khaki Nazis". Go to http://www.atthefront.com to see some of his comments!!

If someone needs 'authentic khaki' that bad they should be prepared to hand wash everything in strong tea. that's one of he theories about how the colour first came into military use. [avoiding getting shot by for being starchy white]

Mississippi Jones wrote:I'm a US WWII reenactor and I have bought all of my uniforms and equipment from "At the Front". It's a great vendor.

He is hilarious! Everybody wants their gear and uniforms to be "khaki" and he has constantly explained that there is no "khaki" for US GI uniforms and equipment. Everything is the proper OD color. .......

He is correct too.

Some very early WW2 US web gear was more brown, but by far the bulk of all US web gear used in WW2 was OD and it's varying shades of dirty green.

The "original" khaki, being original=as closer to the dying intentions of the first British soldier that dyed his white shirt in India, would have been a very light shade of green with a touch of brown dyed with green tea leaves... or just take your white shirt, wet it with water and start putting on it as much soil as you can and then rinse and let it dry...this would be truly original

The white colour on the shirt should be evident but the greenish tint should prevail. As the shirt fades because of the sun it should become more white beige-like.

Indygr

Hollowpond wrote:At last...someone to share our pain

pretty sure they got seniority on us for SA suffering though.

threads like this always make me glad i shoot for Indy-esque rather than SA for ''non-iconic'' gear.