Club Obi Wan

I'm a fan of the SOC Raiders myself but held back from offering them because of a couple of reasons.
1st, I would hate sending out a hat that doesn't look new. It's just hard to swallow putting in a hat that looks old and beat up into a box to ship to someone.
2nd. with some people ( not many) not completely on top of their own head measurements, makes this a problem for the Vendor. IE: I make a hat and distress it to be SOC SA as possible and it is custom fitted order ( as all of my hats are). The person makes a mistake with measuring and has to send a hat back to be replaced. No problem normally because if it's a small adjustment I can take out the trimmings and cut a new sweatband and sew them in. It's work and I do it to make the customer happy or I can make a new hat for that customer and sell the original hat as is. Not that big of a deal but when it comes to a distressed hat like the SOC, thats another story.
3rd, to get the buckle effect ( right away) that everyone who likes the SOC hat I would need to use a light weight felt and it wouldn't hold up as well as the rabbit offering I currently offer and no where near as good as the beaver. Something I wanted to stay away from because people would man handle their hat and sit in a rain storm and say the hat ***** because it tapered and shrunk. Really don't want to read that.

As people have seen in another thread I went out and redid my Raiders block and now offering a Rabbit felt for my whole line of hats just based of of the desire of the Raiders rabbit look.

Here's that hat.







I'm working on putting together a distress pattern that I would use to distress each hat to look like the SOC Raiders hat but I have to tell you it takes time. Time = money, I'm sorry it's how things work. I'm also working on a different rabbit felt that will be a lot more floppy and will have better buckle factor right away for those who can't wait to have it naturally. I'm not walking away from my current rabbit offering just adding to my offerings.
I'm just looking into things and would make it an offering but it really would have to be a special offering. Not wanting to get stuck with a hat that looks like it got pulled from the mud and under a truck. I need to work out the details of how to offer this what would be called "the Cairo" and would only be offered in the distressed light weight rabbit felt.

I'm really trying to get some feed back as I work on the details. thanks for reading.

John

Be Seeing You

Thats nice john, but if you want to call it SOC ROUGH IT up just a bit of dirt doesn't give it that look, I know you can't do that to a customers hat, but just for fun, how about sitting on it?

Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear about posting this set of photo's. This was a fullers earth attempt only as an example not what I would be calling " the Cairo." This hat has some fullers earth and I sat on it a couple of times thats it. It lead me to thinking because of this hat and people contacting me about a distress hat SOC hat offering. Not that this above hat would be "the Cairo.

Ok thanks

I think The Cairo would be a great idea. I've iterated many times how I don't feel the need to purchase another Indy hat after your Raiders beaver hat and a CS AB. HOWEVER, if you make The Cairo a reality, I will definately pull the trigger on one. I'm not really into the artificial distressing (I'm of the Michaelson School of Natural Distressing) but this is something that interests me. And if your going to be making this with a very light rabbit felt you will get the SoC look without a problem. John, you've officially reawaken my interest in another Indy hat...my fiance is gonna kill me.

Dave

Is this a thread that should be in the vendors section?

Regards! Michaelson

I don't know M, I'm really trying to get feedback from people on how best to handle this and to see if there is enough interest not a offering or an announcement. Feel free to move it if you feel like it should go there. I never know.

Sorry, I'm still sort of a newb. What does SOC stand for? Is there a list of acronyms somewhere?

--Bill B.

Tundrarider wrote:Bill, I know what you mean. But a list would take away the fun of the discovery! Streets of Cairo.

John,

You must have seen Fedoraiders post on his SOC fedora? He is really on to something!

BTW I am very impressed with your work!

Michael

I was asked to do this last year but like stated before it's a hard thing to offer because of many reason like I already stated. The other thing that kept me away from this is that hats change after the person wears it for a while. You could end up buying a SOC and end up with something else.

Maybe with everyone taking me the wrong way maybe we should just kill this thread.

Please don't kill this thread!

Let me see if I have this right and maybe it will clear it up for others. John, you had someone interested in the SoC look back last year, but you were unsure if it would be a good way to go about. After giving it some consideration, you thought it best to make it an offering, though not a standard offering. You will be using extra light weight rabbit bodies for this and doing a lot of distressing to get the coveted look. It becomes tricky with returns becuase now somone is returning a hat that looks like its been through the deserts of Tunisia and back. Did I get that right?

Dave

What I'm saying is I'm trying to get some feed back on how interested people would be to have a distressed SOC SA Raiders hat as possible from me ( Penman hats) because I would have to buy a lot of raw bodies to do this and it would put a lot of more hours into a hat costing more $$$$$$$. I did not get this idea from someone else this has been a project I have been working on for some time because some people have been asking me this since I start last year.
There is also the problem of what to do about people getting their measurements wrong and getting stuck with a hat that looks trashed. I hoping to get some good feed back from everyone here on how best to handle this. Sounds easy when one person knows how they feel but it's a different story when you have to account for everyone vision of what they think the hat should be.

John

I don't know, my friend. You bring up a good point. Personally I think your best bet would be to create the best 'base' SOC hat, and just leave the distressing to the buyer, rather than chance what you already know will happen.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak wrote: There is also the problem of what to do about people getting their measurements wrong and getting stuck with a hat that looks trashed.

I don't necessarily think you would have a hard time unloading a "distressed" SOC hat. Remember, there's a whole business out there in selling brand new jeans coming pre-ripped. I think you'd be surprised at who would be interested in such a hat, even outside the Indy community. We're not the only ones who would it looks "cool". At least that's my opinion of what others would think.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand this concept correctly John, what you'd be offering would basically be a hat that looks like it came right off Ford's head in SOC down to the smallest possible detail. A ready made super SA "replica" if you will.

Regards,
Brian

Could you set up one of those quick polls/surveys I've taken here? Seems like that would be a quick way to get an idea.

I have to say that I'm planning on saving up to get one of your hats, but I personally wouldn't buy a distressed hat. I might be an anomaly here, but SA comes second to practicality for me.

--Bill B.

Bilbe wrote:Could you set up one of those quick polls/surveys I've taken here? Seems like that would be a quick way to get an idea.

I have to say that I'm planning on saving up to get one of your hats, but I personally wouldn't buy a distressed hat. I might be an anomaly here, but SA comes second to practicality for me.

--Bill B.

I'm with you on that one as Michaelson can tell you. I always wanted a Raiders hat that was new that I would pop on my noggin and it would become a Raiders John hat but there are some out there that want this look. I'm not really only trying to see if there is interest in this hat but how better to make this offering where no one is really taking a big risk.

BendingOak wrote:I always wanted a Raiders hat that was new that I would pop on my noggin and it would become a Raiders John hat

I'm with you there.

BendingOak wrote:there are some out there that want this look.

I can easily imagine that there are quite a few people out there, and it makes a lot of sense you'd try to offer something for those people. I'd still recommend a poll of some sort.

--Bill B.

Thanks for the input. I would hope to think that everyone here has seen how I have done thus far and always keep everyone in the loop.

the ? is , how do you let everyone know with out coming off the wrong way.

I get what you have in mind, Oak. But I think the risk may be too high. Paying somebody to distress your hat might seem like a great idea, but when you're holding a brand new hat in your hands that you paid somebody to mangle... it might suddenly feel different. Thus, I think these waters are dangerous.

If you feel you want to do it, maybe you need to insist that the hat be shipped and tried on before distressing.

As an alternative, I agree with Michaelson. Base SoC hat, no distressing. Maybe you could offer to apply fullers earth before shipping? Sure, one dusting won't last forever, but; 1) it's easy to clean off, and 2) customers could pay a relatively small fee to "sample" fullers earth to find out if they would want to invest in more.

A pre-dusted hat I might consider. But not a pre-mangled one.

thanks for the feed back. This is what I'm looking for and please people keep it up.

I'm not only taking about dust and sitting and mangling the hat but I'm talking about adding the sweat stains in the exact spots that you would see in screen grabs etc., etc.

john

John,

I think a good avenue of approach would be to offer, as Michaelson says, a "base" SOC hat with no distressing, at one price. Then, if a buyer wants you to do the additional work like adding in the sweat stains and fuller's earth, etc., that would incur an additional cost. I believe Todd offers a similar service with his HJs. You can buy them as is for a base price, or he'll bash them for you at an additional cost. I hope this advice is helpful. Either way John, I'll be following your plan closely as I'm a big fan of the hat you posted at the top of this thread, as well as your work on a whole. Good luck!!

Kind regards,
Craig

I too agree that a base and distressed option are best. Something you might consider is a no-returns policy for the distressed hats. Make is very clear to everyone order the distressed SoC hat that all sales are final if they option for distressing.

Dave

I'm gonna go with the Michaelson idea here...I like the look of the SOC hat: the floppiness, the general distress, but I don't mind supplying my own sweat stains and dirt...

You could offer the SOC as is without distressing, with an optional 'distressing kit' to contain fuller's earth, whatever solution you use to spray on to simulate 'sweat', and a 'suggestion how to' sheet. Once distressed by the customer the hats shouldn't be returnable?

I agree with everyone else. I would love a SOC inspired lid...but a pre-mangled (as Chewie so elegantly put it) one, I would not.


Travis

What we must take into account is that we gearheads would love to distress our own hats but the average hat wearer would probably want that service done for them. I think you can charge a fistful of dollars to distress the thing and ship it out, advertising that the hat will no longer be accepted for returns. You might even make more money that way.

Dave

For what it's worth at this point, I'll add my vote for the hat distressing as a service. People can buy a new hat and optionally add distressing. The cost and results are clear. Lower risk for you and for the buyer.

Speaking as a new-comer, I do not have refined distressing skills. I'm sure others probably feel this way. If I were interested in distressing my gear (which I personally am not), I might be glad to get a known result. Some will think its worthwhile and others will probably want to experiment themselves.

--Bill B.

REALLY interesting thread here, Oak!
I don't know if what I'll write will help this thread along or hinder it, but...

I personally am of the thinking (as a few others here have already suggested) that what's BEST - for your customers AND for you - is a "BASE Version" of this hat with the option of having additional distressing (as per the individuals request) for additional cost(s).

To be honest, when you first wrote about adding "dirt, dust, stains and sweat" the first thing that went through MY mind was "Wow... even simulated sweat? That seems a bit much..."
But you see, what I realize now is that what I really meant was: "that seems like a bit much... for me."

And that's the difference (and the point):
We each have our different intentions for a hat like that. You might get a customer who's a Collector who want a PERFECT S.o.C. Replica to put on display (even on a mannequin) and wants it for nothing else. Maybe he or she doesn't even want it in their own size... For the purpose of their display, they want it in Ford's exact head size (or whatever...)

Then you've got folks like myself who want a hat like that for right on top of their heads and we want it right this minute.

For guys like me, to know that I could get a VERY Screen Accurate S.o.C. Indy Fedora made by you and be able to ask you to add (again, for an additional fee) "dust, dirt & stains...(but hold the sweat, please)"... would be GREAT.

The other thing you mentioned, the issue of possibly being burdened with returned hats from customers who aren't as charmed by their "new / old" hats once they get them in their hands, could - I think - be side-stepped by simply including a Disclaimer-type message on the same web-page that the hat is available for order on.
Something like "PLEASE NOTE: When requesting additional distressing on this Special Issue Hat, ALL SALES ARE FINAL & RETURNS ARE NOT ACCEPTED"...(or something like that... whatever you want it to say, really...)

I'm not saying that what I'm suggesting is perfect and wouldn't have it's drawbacks... but to my thinking, if you're considering moving forward with an idea like that, this is the kind of blueprint you should build it on.

(Heck, John... at the end of the day, if you want you can always post photos of the hat on your website and underneath it would say "Caution: Primarily intended for display purposes... NOT recommended for regular wear or extensive adventuring!")


Anyway those are my thoughts...
Hope it's of some help.

Cheers,
Mitch

Mitch, your input is alway welcome. Thats why I started this thread to get members input. To see what everyone thinks and to get some good idea's. Who would know better about a Raider hat than gearheads like us.

Tundrarider, I didn't take offense at all. It was just a little perplex that no one was really getting what I was posting. If I made you feel like you needed to say your sorry. For that I'm sorry.


I have to say before my hat venture I read more post than I ever posted. Now I read less and post a heck of a lot more. I did see his thread and don't like to make comments on others work.

I have seen a lot of offerings and owned a bunch as well. I have sold or gave away most of my hats. I will now only wear Steve or Marc's hats besides my own.

Tundraider, back to your statement. I read though this thread again and now the thread that you speak of and I'm even more perplexed. It seems that people are taken by the distressed type of hat in one thread but not in the other????????????

Well, here is how I see it. I love the SoC look and it is in factg my favorite in the series. I would think it is the most difficult hat to replicate becuase it is a hat that is barely holding together. To make a good hat look like its falling apart is tough. I love seeing hats that pull that look off. Now, I wouldn't wear a hat like that. I'm not into costuming. I wear all my hats with my everyday clothes and I don't normally wear my clothes dirty and worn out...normally. I would like to have a SoC hat but have it distress naturally, the way all my hats do. I am a big fan of crunching up hats and sitting on them; I think it breaks them in nicely, but distressing is something I like done naturally. I may make that exception for your SoC hat, though, I'm not sure yet.

Dave

Echoing what most others have said about offering the "mangling" as an additional service.

Something that hasn't been commented on is something John mentioned early on about using a thinner rabbit felt to be able to get the "mashed" look right off. John expressed concerns about customers complaining the thinner felt wouldn't be as durable and I agree. Regardless of what disclaimer John puts about the type of felt being used I could see John getting complaints from customers because the hats aren't holding up.

To me, a hat pre-distressed to this extent is a costume piece and not something to be worn everyday. As we've all read a million times, items used on screen are artificially distressed to match the needs of the movie and are not intended to be used long term. John, IMO you are in the business of making hats that will be worn for a lifetime under almost any conditions and not into making costume pieces. Not to say a SOC offering as being discussed wouldn't be made with the same care you put into all of your hats, but it would seem there is a greater risk for the hats to be perceived as inferior to your other offerings.

As an analogy I hope works, Todd first offered shirts cut to the same dimensions as a screen used shirt from Raiders and took alot of complaints from people for the length being too short and how the sleeves fit. So he changed the patterns to meet the expectations of the customer. Too many people say, "I want exactly what's on screen" and then when they get it say, "Hm, what looks cool on screen really isn't so practical in real life."

Is there a demand out there for a ready to wear SOC hat? Probably. You saw a demand for a rabbit felt Raiders fedora and you are supplying that without concerns for compromising the reputation for quality you so rightly deserve.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I think that I would echo most here in saying that a SOC "inspired" hat is in order. A new hat with the basic look that still says "Cairo" to us Fellow Travelers. But, leave it up to the buyer to distress the hat themselves as far as sitting, smooshing & Fullers. The perfection will be in the eye of the owner that way. Maybe put together a little kit for a nominal fee that can go with the hat for the would be distresser 'to do that voodoo that they do so well'. So, the hat is in no need of shaping since the basic SOC shape is in it, but then offer a distressing kit that they could use with concise instructions.

Just a thought for what it's worth.

Cheers!

Dan

DanielJones wrote:I think that I would echo most here in saying that a SOC "inspired" hat is in order. A new hat with the basic look that still says "Cairo" to us Fellow Travelers. But, leave it up to the buyer to distress the hat themselves as far as sitting, smooshing & Fullers. The perfection will be in the eye of the owner that way. Maybe put together a little kit for a nominal fee that can go with the hat for the would be distresser 'to do that voodoo that they do so well'. So, the hat is in no need of shaping since the basic SOC shape is in it, but then offer a distressing kit that they could use with concise instructions.

Just a thought for what it's worth.

Cheers!

Dan

Great minds Dan

RCSignals wrote:You could offer the SOC as is without distressing, with an optional 'distressing kit' to contain fuller's earth, whatever solution you use to spray on to simulate 'sweat', and a 'suggestion how to' sheet. Once distressed by the customer the hats shouldn't be returnable?

Without doing some of the distressing the hat would be a Raiders hat of any other kind. The shape of the SOC hat is caused by the distressing. You can't make a non distressed SOC you would have let's say an Idol Grab.

BendingOak wrote:Without doing some of the distressing the hat would be a Raiders hat of any other kind. The shape of the SOC hat is caused by the distressing. You can't make a non distressed SOC you would have let's say an Idol Grab.

Being new and relatively free from the burden of having to ask informed questions, I'm kind of curious about part of this thread.

If you were going to offer a SA fedora mangling service, would you mangle other hats for people? e.g., the Idol Grab or Flying Wing Raider or maybe the Tank Battle Crusade? (If you do I would like to see the photos) Would they have to be made of light-weight rabbit too? Combined with the base-hat SOC, would this make it easier for you to keep a supply of light-weight rabbit? Are you even concerned about spending a bunch of money on light-weight rabbit and then not having a use for it? How much do you think this distressing would undermine the integrity and longevity of the hat? Could you offer a undistressing service too? Could you take a large distressed hat and make it a smaller undistressed one? And what about world peace? Sorry... forget about that last one.

I sort of feel like I walked into the middle of a very long but interesting conversation.

--Bill B.

Edited by author.

I would say a costumer would ask for full distressing (your term) and a regular hat wearer would opt for partial distressing. If Tunrarider's plan is the one used, I would opt for a partial distressing. I would ask for the hat open crown, though. I like to crease these myself.

Dave

Tundrarider wrote:

So, you might be able to offer a choice to customers:

1) Partial distressing-SOC Bash and shape
2) Full distressing-SOC Bash, shape plus dirt, stains and sweat.

It's the full distressing that would seem to be most labor intensive or time consuming. AND it is the most risky, as opinions vary as to how much distressing is enough or too much.

My guess is many costumers would opt for partial distressing, but who knows? That's what this post is trying to figure out!

Thanks for your interest in this project, and for asking for our input!

Michael

That's sort of along the lines of what I was proposing, and I believe Dan as well.

Your 'Partial distressing' -would be a SOC shaped/distressed looking hat without the dust, dirt and sweat.

The difference would be a 'distressing kit' offered to the customer to get to 'Full distressing' themselves

of course if he wanted to he could also offer a 'Full distressed' SOC at higher cost.

The great thing about The Cairo is that it would be the most SA Raiders fedora available. We would have a hat that has every drop of sweat and every speck of dirt exactly replicated from the film. It would indeed be the ultimate Raiders hat. My favorite shot of Indy's hat is after Indy enters the Marhala Bar and asks some guy "You lookin' for me?" The guy laughs and then Indy turns around and sees Belloq and we get a perfectly boxy hat. The great thing about that is that five seconds earlier, the hat looked wilted and depressed as Indy was drinking his whiskey. I've said before, that I don't usually like the distressed look becuase I wear a hat everyday and my Indy hats are my favorites, but I think I'm going to break my clean hat policy for this one. I want The Cairo. It will have to wait though. I haven't even received my Penman Rorshach hat. Maybe around Christmas time I'll order The Cairo.

Dave

I'm one of those who prefer to wear their gear in from new (and I wish I could afford to buy the good stuff new) and let it achieve it's own character and distressing, so unless I win a lottery and move to the SA world I'm not likely to be ordering a Cairo, but I've gotta say that this thread is a great example of why we come for the gear and stay for the people.

LJ

BendingOak wrote:
Tundraider, back to your statement. I read though this thread again and now the thread that you speak of and I'm even more perplexed. It seems that people are taken by the distressed type of hat in one thread but not in the other????????????

For myself I can say that when I see an awesome hat...I geek out! I want it! Right now! I don't think about the particulars, like for example if a super SA SOC hat doesn't fit, it is impractical and unfair to expect the vendor to take it back. I was all about a mangled hat untill you pointed out this was a problem. Now I would just like a SOC style hat. That accounted for my being wishy washy between threads.


Travis

Any news on this front? I'm very excited about The Cairo and really want to see a finished one! Do you have a ballpark estimate on the cost? I'm sure the amount of distressing that this thing needs to go through will raise the price.

Dave

DR Ulloa wrote:Any news on this front? I'm very excited about The Cairo and really want to see a finished one! Do you have a ballpark estimate on the cost? I'm sure the amount of distressing that this thing needs to go through will raise the price.

Dave

I have no time frame on when a prototype would be finished and as for price I will need to finish the prototype before I can even think about placing a price tag on it. I might be using different felt for "the Cairo."

I will tell you this, "the cairo" will become a offering from me.

Thats good to hear becuase I WILL be ordering one. Don't know when as I already have two Penmans and one on order and NEED to get one more AB before Steve retires, but I am getting one. Most probably after the wedding, once things have settled down.

Dave

I, too, am watching this as it develops with GREAT interest!

Travis

DR Ulloa wrote:Thats good to hear becuase I WILL be ordering one. Don't know when as I already have two Penmans and one on order and NEED to get one more AB before Steve retires, but I am getting one. Most probably after the wedding, once things have settled down.

Dave

Don't worry David. I'm not going anywhere and I don't have a time frame anyway.

Dave

Man, the SOC hat was the main reason I fell in love with the fedora as a child. If this come to fruition, it'll be the 3rd/4th Penman hat I'll get and will definitely be the de-facto hat to wear with any other Indygear.

I would absolutely love a SoC Raiders Fedora-I do so hate having to 'age' a brand new fedora myself......
When I do purchase a new fedora, there is certainly a guilt factor, even though I want to age it, I cant quite bring myself to do it-so a pre-distressed 'get what you pay for' fedora would be superb-'Holy Smoke!'

Any news on this, John? I really want to see a protoype!

Dave