Club Obi Wan

It's me with a hat theory. Yes, I have a hat theory.

Now, I know that some time ago there was some mention on this board which suggested that possibly one or some of the hats used in Temple of Doom were actually Raiders hats, so upon doing some analysing of gear pictures last night (yes, gentlemen, analysing and not drooling over Indy) I noticed something interesting about the fedora on the rope bridge scene.

Now, if you take a look at this picture, notice the bash on the back of the fedora.



This reminded me of the scene from Raiders where the truck blows up and a bash that I had put into my own AB...








We all know that the Raiders fedora had a very high crown and quite a wide brim, and I know that it's probably nothing, but I thought I would share it with you, nonetheless.

Now, I know that this is a long shot, but could this actually be one of the hats from Raiders?

Thanks for sharing your theory Canyon. There is a good possibility that there were still some leftover hats saved from Raiders that got used throughout TOD, the ultimate meaning of recycling. We shall see what our local experts have to say as they weigh in their theories as well. Good eye there.

Cheers!

Dan

Unless one of the photo are reversed (which is always possible), it looks to me like the funny hump in the back is on the opposite site of the ToD hat when compared with the Raiders hat. Those particular hats and the bash jobs do look "eerily" similar.

I have always thought the "rope cutting" and "elephant ride" hats looked more Raiders-like than any of the others in TOD. There are also one or two hats in LC that look very Raiders-like.

The crown in the TOD bridge scene appears to be creased lower with a much shallower front pinch, though, so it's hard to be sure. Also, the dent in the back which you pictured may distort the look a bit.

I could never get any of my early HJ's to look as untapered as the bridge scene hat, which leads me to believe that perhaps the elusive Raiders block was used. It certainly wasn't a Stetson-- at least not any of the licensed ones.

I think Fedora posted somewhere that there could easily have been some Raiders leftovers that were used in the sequels.

Jack

The suspension bridge hat comes in third for me, right after the Raiders and CS hats. I've always thought the bridge hat looked considerably different from the other hats used in the film and more like a Raiders hat. The hat does appear to have some taper, but consider this: the hat has a very deep center crease and has very small front dents that don't go very far back at all. Steve admits that the Raiders block did have taper, though not much, but that it creases out. If you don't crease the hat as far back as in Raiders, you are left with a degree of taper. That, mixed with the deep center crease, is why I think the suspension bridge hat appears slightly more tapered than the Raiders hats.

I think that hat could very possible be a Raiders left over. The very one from the SoC scenes? No. The awkward center dent in the SoC hat probably happened by accident. The felt in those hats were very floppy. It is possible that with just moving around that slight zig-zag effect happened. Remember, Indy grabs onto a wall right before that screen cap is taken and the bash might very well have been affected by that. I think that the zig-zag center dent on the Temple of Doom bridge hat is due to the same thing or possibly occured when Harrison put the hat on. At anyrate, the cernter dent is straight when Indy pulls himself up on the ladder after cutting the bridge; the crease was fixed.

Dave

The TOD bridge hat was the Indy hat I originally wanted but could never find, way back when... for me, it's always been one of the best-looking. I shaped my Christys Adventurer to look as close as possible to that hat. ...

I think a different hat with more noticeable taper was used in the "rope climbing" scene just after the bridge was cut; there's supposed to be a Stetson in that sequence somewhere too, but I'll be darned if I can spot it. It's been awhile since I vuewed TOD, though.

Jack

I'm almost certain that ToD hat is a left over Raiders. It has a certain "Herbert Johnson-ish" quality to it. However, the odds of a Streets of Cairo surviving and looking that good... I don't buy it. The bash similarity, while reversed, might support the idea, too. It might be a common "behavior" of the Raiders block and felt.

Good catch.

Yes, the odds of it being the ACTUAL hat used in the SOC scene are very remote, but the similarity is striking. Who knows, it may even have been a "transitional" hat made for TOD, just before the original Raiders block was done away with.

Jack

Gentlemen, thank you, and thank you once again for your kind and considerate replies.

To be honest with you, I really love coming up with these types of theories but absolutely hate posting them.

Why? Because of the fear that I will be completey ripped to shreds.

The thing is, because I love Indy so much and I am female, I sometimes worry that some people may think that I don't care about the gear as much as everyone else does and, when I get these theories, I genuinely worry that I won't be taken seriously. but that's probably me just being paranoid. I know that the Ark really is in Area 51...its a conspiracy, man!

Seriously though, I know that most gear theories have already been proved, disproved, etc, but I think that we should not be afraid to express our theories here. I think that even though some may not agree with theories posted, as always, tact and diplomacy should always been given. I guess what I'm trying to says is that, even though you may not always agree with others opinons, we should, as always reply in a civilized and courteous manner.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

Chewbacca Jones wrote:I'm almost certain that ToD hat is a left over Raiders. It has a certain "Herbert Johnson-ish" quality to it. However, the odds of a Streets of Cairo surviving and looking that good... I don't buy it. The bash similarity, while reversed, might support the idea, too. It might be a common "behavior" of the Raiders block and felt.

Good catch.

THE SOC DID survive its the screenused hat Desi ( screenused ) owns?

@ canyon the raiders hat didn't have a high/tall crown;)
your theory could be true , but i don't think it based on the pics you provided, there is like 3 years between filming of raiders and TOD? not very well cared for hats? new bash, several got wet It could very much be.

I agree with eazybox on the LC thing:
The hat where indy rides the horse is proof of that

I watched Temple of Doom last night and was careful to spot that center crease when I did. Before Indy lowers his head in that screen cap, he turns his head to the right a bit and you see a nice profile shot of the hat. On the side, near the back, there is a a section where the hat is pushed in, like if somone took their finger and just pushed on that part of the felt. I think that odd center dent is due to this. But, I still maintain that that very hat was prabably used in Raiders. It was most probably one that was never used in the film, an extra, but I think it is a Raiders hat. It is just too different from the rest of the Temple hats.

Lady Canyon, don't be afraid to post your theories. In addition to the fact we all know how you feel about Mr. Ford's posterior, you are one of the most respected members here. What would COW be without Canyon?

Dave

Look at the bow people.

Who are the bow people?

I tried to get a good screen shot of the bow in that scene and I just couldn't. Maybe someone can take a good screen cap of the bow on that hat. I do see a bit of a difference in the bow on this hat than on the ones in the rest of the film, but it might just be the blurred image thats doing that.

Dave

moses wrote:Who are the bow people?

They are the hat faries.

Randy

that hat in that scene, is the same as the plane hat;) before it got wet. it was auctioned off in 2005.

Its not the cairo hat.

I advice everyone to look at this link

http://screenused.com/index.cfm?section ... em_id=2557

DR Ulloa wrote:Lady Canyon, don't be afraid to post your theories. In addition to the fact we all know how you feel about Mr. Ford's posterior, you are one of the most respected members here. What would COW be without Canyon?

Dave

Thanks Dave. That means a lot.

As regards to the bow, could it have been replaced?

the cockpit hat and the bridge hat (after cutting) was shot in the studio.

the actual bridge hat and the scenes where he fights the thugees on the cliff were shot on location on/around the cliffside......i think this was in the states iirc.

knowing that, and the fact that the cockpit hat doesn't look like the bridge hat......i do not think they are the same. jmo, as i'm not anthoney powell.

Canyon wrote:

DR Ulloa wrote:Lady Canyon, don't be afraid to post your theories. In addition to the fact we all know how you feel about Mr. Ford's posterior, you are one of the most respected members here. What would COW be without Canyon?

Dave

Thanks Dave. That means a lot.

As regards to the bow, could it have been replaced?

http://screenused.com/index.cfm?section ... em_id=4012

@ indiana G
this is the same kidney like shape as the bridge scene hat of which Canyon posted a shot above

Now I could say that could have been put in easily but the fact that it is on this hat and not on the other tod hats makes me think its that hat also;)
This is the bridge scene hat. And it is the same as the cockpit hat;) and the mines hat.

the center crease can be bashed in by hand to match hats, i can put it in on any of my raiders hats......the million dollar question is: how do you think they got the studio hat brim to be more curled than the bridge hat?

maybe stevie and lucas had richard swales on set with a hat flange?

http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/g ... ts/380.jpg

http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/g ... ns/t35.jpg

This is the bridge scene hat. And it is the same as the cockpit hat;) and the mines hat.

i agree with that. that pic of indy on the busted bridge was shot on a closed set.....as was the plane and the mines.

the outdoor suspension bridge was shot somewhere else. look at the flat brim, look at the crown height. those should be clear indications that they are different hats. it would take a day to make the bridge hat into the studio hat if you want to talk semantics.

sorry my mistake the 2nd pic is indeed a different hat! but the plane and the bridge against wall hat are the same, you can tell by the bow. look at the screenused link

edit you posted it already at the same time LOL !:D

Oh my goodness. What have I started...

Could it simply be that the hat Canyon points out, which looks quite Raider hat-ish, is a H-J but not necessarily a left over Raider hat?

The 'set hat' would be a Stetson?

http://www.theraider.net/films/todoom/g ... ns/t92.jpg

no that set hat is not a stetson( the hat sold on screenused in 2005) was a Herbert Johnson hat. Desi ( screenused) can confirm this !

Actually It WAS confirmed:

You will notice that we did not provide pictures of the inside of the hat. Again, that was on purpose so that it could not be copied since it has very significant wear and features. However, I can answer some questions that will hopefully help a little. On the inside leather band, there is a very faint (mostly worn away) gold cursive writing that says “Herbert Johnson”, what looks like an address, then on a third line “London” and what looks like “WI” or “W1”. “Made in England” is stamped into the inner band in gold. On another part of the band it has “I J” stamped into the band with the number “1” written next to that. There is no liner or anything in the hat – just the plain felt. I did not notice a size stamped anywhere, however the underside is VERY worn and dirty and we were definitely not going to touch any of that.

Thanks Desi !

You know, _ once said that D. N. was not picked up for the second film because she only 'rented" Indy's costume. So, what was left over, went back to B and N. And in the Lucas warehouse walk through video, we don't see any Raider fedoras, just TOD and LC. I guess a few hats from Raiders must have gotten kept though. Perhaps the extras were sent back?

To me, the hat shown on Canyon's post has the wrong roll on the top of the hat to be a Raiders fedora. But only an opinon. Fedora

Dutch_jones wrote:no that set hat is not a stetson( the hat sold on screenused in 2005) was a Herbert Johnson hat. Desi ( screenused) can confirm this !

Actually It WAS confirmed:

You will notice that we did not provide pictures of the inside of the hat. Again, that was on purpose so that it could not be copied since it has very significant wear and features. However, I can answer some questions that will hopefully help a little. On the inside leather band, there is a very faint (mostly worn away) gold cursive writing that says “Herbert Johnson”, what looks like an address, then on a third line “London” and what looks like “WI” or “W1”. “Made in England” is stamped into the inner band in gold. On another part of the band it has “I J” stamped into the band with the number “1” written next to that. There is no liner or anything in the hat – just the plain felt. I did not notice a size stamped anywhere, however the underside is VERY worn and dirty and we were definitely not going to touch any of that.

Thanks Desi !

Isn't Desi's hat a Raiders hat? Where does it say it was used in that on set scene of ToD?

or is this Desi's hat?

http://screenused.com/index.cfm?section ... ndyhat.cfm

He also had a ToD hat at one point.

Randy

RCSignals wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote:no that set hat is not a stetson( the hat sold on screenused in 2005) was a Herbert Johnson hat. Desi ( screenused) can confirm this !

Actually It WAS confirmed:

You will notice that we did not provide pictures of the inside of the hat. Again, that was on purpose so that it could not be copied since it has very significant wear and features. However, I can answer some questions that will hopefully help a little. On the inside leather band, there is a very faint (mostly worn away) gold cursive writing that says “Herbert Johnson”, what looks like an address, then on a third line “London” and what looks like “WI” or “W1”. “Made in England” is stamped into the inner band in gold. On another part of the band it has “I J” stamped into the band with the number “1” written next to that. There is no liner or anything in the hat – just the plain felt. I did not notice a size stamped anywhere, however the underside is VERY worn and dirty and we were definitely not going to touch any of that.

Thanks Desi !

Isn't Desi's hat a Raiders hat? Where does it say it was used in that on set scene of ToD?

or is this Desi's hat?

http://screenused.com/index.cfm?section ... ndyhat.cfm

RC

There was thread on the Temple of doom hat a long time back
:
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... &start=100