Club Obi Wan

Some of you may remember I got a Wested HH a few months ago. Some new pics of it:

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/w1.jpg
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu163/roninbd/w2.jpg

(At this point I'd like to say this is the one and only time I have tucked my T-shirt into my jeans.)

Well, to me it has always felt nowhere near Raiders-enough for me. I was disappointed with the whole "Original Patterns" story, and to me it showed in the fit. I actually like the Wested as a jacket - it serves me well when on holidays in cold places - but it just aint what I wanted. (Notice the sleeve length - they have shrunk a solid 1 1/2 inches!)

I love the flying wing scene. I hate tall pockets. I've followed the long and sometimes tedious shrunken lamb threads. I dig the pebbling on the yoke, collar and here and there on the jacket, but want something that looks more like what appears on screen, not necessarily the way it actually was. I've noticed collar differences between the Hawaii and Temple jackets.

SO I called Tony, and he made me this:








Some details you can't see here are that I've had Tony round off the collar stand, and lengthen the sleeves by about an inch from 000/888. Pockets are downsized a tad for both personal preference and what seems to be the case in glimpses of them on that jacket. Other than that, coincidentally I'm exactly the same size as Ford according to Tony, and it fits like a glove. (Hasn't quite settled in yet, though) If you notice the collar; the long, right hand side (left hand if you're looking at me) duplicates what you see on the "Temple" jacket. It's all down to collar "training" to get the effect. I gambled that when the different jackets were originally made, the pattern for the collar wouldn't be too different. That seems to be correct. Holt's definitely right re his collar - this sucker is LONG. You don't notice it unless you train it in this way vs. a broader "Hawaii" look.

Anyway, dealing with Tony was awesome. Straight forward, entertaining, and never a doubt that I was going to get EXACTLY what I wanted. The feel of the leather is sublime vs. any other jacket I have owned. Any leather, full stop! He even matched particular panel leather textures to my specs!

My advice, whatever you're saving for, just save extra and go see the man.

A really, really beautiful jacket. I like the change you made on it.
Tony did a really good job!

And you're right the leather is like no other, I like it a lot too.
I get a lot of compliments from people.

Congratulations

That looks awesome!
Great choices that you made for the requested changes.
Looks like you got the smoother shrunken lamb. Is that correct or is the "dino hide" texture just getting lost in your pics?

I sent you a PM!

Cheers,

Chris

Thanks. It is the smoother shrunken lamb, but has a few key panels with appropriately rougher stuff to mirror the shots like on the front of the truck (back), cobra shot (yoke), and other bits like rougher pocket flaps, collar. I didn't go down the road of requesting a line of shrunken lamb across one of the chest panels, because it looks like ^%$t and would be going a bit far IMO.

Great job on your specs Yojimbo. Not much needs to be said, that looks outstanding on you.
Its the small details like the texture bubbling on the collar that I love about this jacket. Snaps look higher placed also. Superb.
Mike

Yojimbo Jones that jacket looks great on you!
I love how you trained the collar! Need to do the same on mine.
Are you sure you got the smoother shrunken lamb?

Regards

orb

That is one of the nicest TN Raiders jackets I've seen! Its pushing me more towards saving that extra for a TN jacket. I love the look and texture of the leather too. Man this is one nice jacket... TN has done it again with this jacket! Could you maybe explain the rounding of the collar stand? Not sure what thats supposed to do? Is it the way the leather is cut or sewn, or is it distressted/worked to be more broken in and not straight up and stiff for when you receive it? Or did you have him round the tips of the collar?

Jacket looks really great, nice lines and texture in the leather.....having said that, I also like the Wested in your photos as well, both nice jackets.

looks AMAZING

Overall I think it looks great. To me at least, it does look a tad short in the body but I do really like this choice of leather. Oh...and I absoutely LOVE your shirt!

Great jacket! No doubt, Shrunken lamb is the best!

In the first photo, the front seems so much longer than the back....did you specifically request that?

Great looking jacket,......I've always thought my sleeves could be a wee bit shorter BUT they look the same as yours and yours look perfect......'another jewel in the TN crown'....ps.. it just gets better the more you wear it

Yojimbo confirmed that the Front length and Back length are the same. They are both 23 inches.
This fact adds a lot of weight to the argument that the perceived length of the jacket is purely dependent on the posture of the wearer and also the way the jacket is draped on the body.

Chris

PSBIndy wrote:Great jacket! No doubt, Shrunken lamb is the best!

In the first photo, the front seems so much longer than the back....did you specifically request that?

Very very nice, one of the best I have seen. Although i will admit, that HH Wested looks great too.

What is so unique about the Raiders jacket, is one little thing I have not seen replicated yet. This jacket has a spot on collar though but the body length is TOO short for a raiders jacket. It fits like another leather jacket wearing movie hero though:



I really like the collar though its the best raiders collar out there ! and this is not a pun at TN, but your post above NB, you say Tony understands how the raiders jacket fits but there are key elements in the construction and another thing that are missing on the TN replica.

agent5 wrote:Oh...and I absoutely LOVE your shirt!

Ditto that.

I think the length is good as well.... It has that nice forward tilt that will even up a bit when off the soulders....

neutronbomb wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote:What is so unique about the Raiders jacket, is one little thing I have not seen replicated yet. This jacket has a spot on collar though but the body length is TOO short for a raiders jacket. It fits like another leather jacket wearing movie hero though:


I really like the collar though its the best raiders collar out there ! and this is not a pun at TN, but your post above NB, you say Tony understands how the raiders jacket fits but there are key elements in the construction and another thing that are missing on the TN replica.

Whatever Dutch. I think the jacket length is dead on. I also think you've been sniffing too much glue Of course you're totally entitled to your opinion.

Dead on ? It lifts up on the back, the pockets are above his elbows, on the raiders jacket they are below the elbows;)
http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/030.jpg
that means the raiders jacket is longer in the body.

It's too short for a match to the film jacket, NB. It just is. Now, if Yojimbo wanted it this way then of course (and we all know this) that is his preference and there is nothing wrong with that. It still looks great to me, just a bit too short if matching it to what was seen in the film.

The more I look at the pics the more I'm really digging this leather...alot! To me, it really matches what we see in the main hero jacket (not the exterior Temple jacket).

It really turned out fantastic Mr Yojimbo!
I'm glad it was all you wanted it to be.

Iam really digging the collar ! that thing is just beautiful !!

Dutch_jones wrote:What is so unique about the Raiders jacket, is one little thing I have not seen replicated yet. This jacket has a spot on collar though but the body length is TOO short for a raiders jacket. It fits like another leather jacket wearing movie hero though:



I really like the collar though its the best raiders collar out there ! and this is not a pun at TN, but your post above NB, you say Tony understands how the raiders jacket fits but there are key elements in the construction and another thing that are missing on the TN replica.

Funny thing is Dutch, all the jackets in Ford's size of all the movies seem to have the same front length of approximately 23".

That's the length you are saying is too short for the TN jacket, 23"

Just what are "are key elements in the construction and another thing that are missing on the TN replica." you refer to?
Considering the jacket is not a creation of TN alone but a copy of an actual Raider jacket, what is the Raider jacket missing?

Superb jacket! The collar and leather are perfect. I think the length is fine. I find wearing jeans with an Indy jacket will make it look short. My waist looks about 2 inches higher with a pair of slacks.

Why should I point it out? Iam not the one making them.

We know the jackets from LC and tod are 26 and 27 inch in back length, I really can't see the temple jacket begin 3 and 4 inch shorter besides like agent 5 also pointed out the jacket posted above is too short to match the movie jacket.

1-2 inch more will do wonders for the look of the jacket;)

agent5 wrote:It's too short for a match to the film jacket, NB. It just is. Now, if Yojimbo wanted it this way then of course (and we all know this) that is his preference and there is nothing wrong with that. It still looks great to me, just a bit too short if matching it to what was seen in the film.

........

You've said that before, yet in this instance Yojimbo's jacket length is unaltered from the movie jacket length. How can it be too short for a match to the film jacket, when it's the same length as the film jacket?
In fact the front length is about the same for all the jackets of every movie. The back lengths differ.
To me, and I suspect others as well, the length does match what is seen in the film.

RC:

The hawaii jacket could be shorter? Don't know we can't really see that all the way in the movie, but the temple is longer in the body, just look at the pocket placement.

A few extra inches in the body, and it would have been perfect. That's just my opinion, and I thought for a while before even posting that much.
However, we post pictures to be examined and discussed, so I doubt YJ, a fellow Aussie, will mind.
Other than then length, which for me is purely a matter of taste, not screen accuracy, it's simply a superb a superb jacket.
It seems nobody does 'Raiders' like Tony Nowak. In fact, nobody does Indy jackets period, like Tony. Wested's jackets just look like cheap
costume pieces to me now.

Dutch_jones wrote:Why should I point it out? Iam not the one making them.

Because you are the one saying there are problems witht eh construction. If you say there are point them out.
Admit it Dutch, you really don't like TN Raider jackets, that's all.

Dutch_jones wrote:We know the jackets from LC and tod are 26 and 27 inch in back length, I really can't see the temple jacket begin 3 and 4 inch shorter besides like agent 5 also pointed out the jacket posted above is too short to match the movie jacket.

You were specifically referring to front length, even posting a photo of another jacket from the front. Why now start talking about back length?
The back length of the ToD according to Peter was 26", not 27", pretty much the same as the LC and CS back lengths as well.

The reason the back of the shorter Raider appears longer than 23" is how the jacket hangs when worn. We don't need to go over that again it's been discussed ad nauseum. You either understand it or you don't.

RCSignals wrote:

agent5 wrote:It's too short for a match to the film jacket, NB. It just is. Now, if Yojimbo wanted it this way then of course (and we all know this) that is his preference and there is nothing wrong with that. It still looks great to me, just a bit too short if matching it to what was seen in the film.

........

You've said that before, yet in this instance Yojimbo's jacket length is unaltered from the movie jacket length. How can it be too short for a match to the film jacket, when it's the same length as the film jacket?
In fact the front length is about the same for all the jackets of every movie. The back lengths differ.
To me, and I suspect others as well, the length does match what is seen in the film.

Just a thought, but I think it may be possible that the jacket may have lost some height with age, especially considering the less than ideal conditions it has been exposed to over the years (and during filming). If I'm right, then even if it is the same length as the film jacket is today, it may still not be the same length as the jacket was back then.

Castor Dioscuri wrote:

RCSignals wrote:

agent5 wrote:It's too short for a match to the film jacket, NB. It just is. Now, if Yojimbo wanted it this way then of course (and we all know this) that is his preference and there is nothing wrong with that. It still looks great to me, just a bit too short if matching it to what was seen in the film.

........

You've said that before, yet in this instance Yojimbo's jacket length is unaltered from the movie jacket length. How can it be too short for a match to the film jacket, when it's the same length as the film jacket?
In fact the front length is about the same for all the jackets of every movie. The back lengths differ.
To me, and I suspect others as well, the length does match what is seen in the film.

Just a thought, but I think it may be possible that the jacket may have lost some height with age, especially considering the less than ideal conditions it has been exposed to over the years (and during filming). If I'm right, then even if it is the same length as the film jacket is today, it may still not be the same length as the jacket was back then.

Just like witht he hats !!! It has been a good 29 years now !

Dutch_jones wrote:RC:

The hawaii jacket could be shorter? Don't know we can't really see that all the way in the movie, but the temple is longer in the body, just look at the pocket placement.

Well Dutch, I suggest when you order your jacket from TN you ask for it to be 1 - 2' longer.
It will be too long in the front then, but it will be your jacket as you like it

Congratulations on the new jacket Yojimbo. It looks great!

I certainly appreciate your desire to get what appears on screen to you and not necessarily what was.

It’s impressive that TN allowed you to specify the areas where you want grain to appear, rather than leaving it to chance. Well done!

- Mac

Great jacket Yojimbo! Now go and take some pictures of it with pants on that go up to your waist-line, so the arguments stop and the appreciation of your beautifull jacket can resume

Regards, Geert

Castor Dioscuri wrote: Just a thought, but I think it may be possible that the jacket may have lost some height with age, especially considering the less than ideal conditions it has been exposed to over the years (and during filming). If I'm right, then even if it is the same length as the film jacket is today, it may still not be the same length as the jacket was back then.

It is a thought, but I don't think it's the case. Take a look at the photos in the tutorial thread comparing lengths of the Raider with a TN sized CS jacket.
If what you suggest in the leather loosing length over time is correct, why would the back change in length dramatically compared to the front length? The back would have had to changed 2 to 3" in length to put it where people 'expect' it to be by measurement. It's all in the construction of the jacket.
This has all been discussed at length (no pun intended) before.

You have two of these jackets at least, what lengths are yours?

Mac wrote:..........

I certainly appreciate your desire to get what appears on screen to you and not necessarily what was.

It’s impressive that TN allowed you to specify the areas where you want grain to appear, rather than leaving it to chance. Well done!

- Mac

I agree, having it how you want it and getting it that way is what it is about.

The placement of the leather for these is never by chance. TN selects each piece and decides the best position for each based on how the original was before the pieces are cut. He says it is very time consuming and he can make many CS jackets in the time it takes to build one Raiders jacket.

That jacket looks amazing on you, Yojimbo. Tony does a perfect Raiders. And you will see how it gets better and better after wearing it for just a few days. Congratulations!!

Terrific leather, terrific collar and it looks fantastic on you.

Great jacket!

As for the length, I think it's right on. I think the extra length we see in some angles comes from where Harrison wore the jacket, either forward against his neck, or back on his shoulders. In the first case, it gives that long collar and low front look, in the second, the back comes down to where we're most accustomed to. What I tend to do is probably go too long replicating the length in the second case when it back on the shoulders. I'm leaning towards Yojimbo's length so you can drop it back when you want to. Whenever HF leaned forward, it always pulled up above his belt in back.

Great work Yojimbo and Tony.

for what its worth I think the length looks like the movie jacket. the raiders jacket had a really short backlength with long sleeves.

just my2c

Hi Orb, Thanks, Yes, but with some specified rougher bits.

orb wrote:Yojimbo Jones that jacket looks great on you!
I love how you trained the collar! Need to do the same on mine.
Are you sure you got the smoother shrunken lamb?

It's just where the collar stand caps off the storm flap - I had it rounded off more than Tony's standard which is much squarer.

TheExit148 wrote:That is one of the nicest TN Raiders jackets I've seen! Its pushing me more towards saving that extra for a TN jacket. I love the look and texture of the leather too. Man this is one nice jacket... TN has done it again with this jacket! Could you maybe explain the rounding of the collar stand? Not sure what thats supposed to do? Is it the way the leather is cut or sewn, or is it distressted/worked to be more broken in and not straight up and stiff for when you receive it? Or did you have him round the tips of the collar?

This is the thing that's key to the "X" factor in the Raiders jacket IMO - it really does move on you. Just like in the movie, the Nowak front and/ or back length increases in a flash - as does the front left or right panels. The whole "off the shoulder" effect. Having said that, it isn't even fully off the shoulder in these shots as I was showing the different collar effect. It can just as easily replicate a longer look at the back with a Hawaii collar. It's like that sucker's alive.

PSBIndy wrote:Great jacket! No doubt, Shrunken lamb is the best!

In the first photo, the front seems so much longer than the back....did you specifically request that?

neutronbomb wrote:The first picture makes the front of the jacket appear longer than it is. The 2nd picture IMO shows the length more accurately. I think this is a perfect example that should help clarify some of the debates about the length of HF's jacket in ROLA.

Thanks mate. Agreed - see my post above. I also rewatched Raiders the other night and again, that sucker is short at the back. All the lengths look right to me, both on me for my personal preference, and as per the movie. If you watch the flying wing scene, from the point on the DVD where they appear from the well of souls onwards, you'll see what I mean.

Anyway, I arrived at my length also in part of looking at the front length of jackets that fit me well and flattered me, and added an inch or so to take into account the tendency it will have to creep backwards. Then I simply requested the same back length, after checking on an exiting jacket it wouldn't feel too high at the back for my comfort. The resulting jacket thus yielded no surprise for me.

I'd say this is the WORST Nowak Raiders ever. The length is way too short yet at the same time too long as well. The collar is too pointy but too rounded, too tall and too short. The sleeves seem too round somehow, they should be more of a triangular shape. The pockets? Well I won't even go there other than to say they're completely wrong.

I feel horrible for you to have to wear that thing. I bet the stitching is already coming out...

RCSignals wrote:

Castor Dioscuri wrote: Just a thought, but I think it may be possible that the jacket may have lost some height with age, especially considering the less than ideal conditions it has been exposed to over the years (and during filming). If I'm right, then even if it is the same length as the film jacket is today, it may still not be the same length as the jacket was back then.

It is a thought, but I don't think it's the case. Take a look at the photos in the tutorial thread comparing lengths of the Raider with a TN sized CS jacket.
If what you suggest in the leather loosing length over time is correct, why would the back change in length dramatically compared to the front length? The back would have had to changed 2 to 3" in length to put it where people 'expect' it to be by measurement. It's all in the construction of the jacket.
This has all been discussed at length (no pun intended) before.

You have two of these jackets at least, what lengths are yours?

I know these have been discussed at length before- I've been an active participant in those discussions!

In fact, I remember posting this to illustrate the length when I recieved my jacket:



Hmm, come to think of it, I think I've just re-convinced myself again that it IS the right length, with help from RC!

Ah, and in response to your question, one is in the original length, and one is an inch or two longer than my first since it better matches an untucked look.

agent5 wrote

It's too short for a match to the film jacket, NB. It just is. Now, if Yojimbo wanted it this way then of course (and we all know this) that is his preference and there is nothing wrong with that. It still looks great to me, just a bit too short if matching it to what was seen in the film.

RCSignals wrote

You've said that before, yet in this instance Yojimbo's jacket length is unaltered from the movie jacket length. How can it be too short for a match to the film jacket, when it's the same length as the film jacket?
In fact the front length is about the same for all the jackets of every movie. The back lengths differ.
To me, and I suspect others as well, the length does match what is seen in the film.

The jacket "is" short.
But "23" inches isn't short!!!
What agent5 five means is that "it looks short" on Yojimbo.
The fact that the sleeves are a tad long make it look shorter.
The jacket front measurement 23 inches seems OK, but on Yojimbo it looks short.
I don't know what size Yojimbo wears, butyou will never find a picture of HF in which the jacket looks that short. Especially the temple jacket....

Holt... I suggest we watch again the making of Raiders at the Raven bar....

Someone, I think it was neutronbomb, said that we should check the distance from bottom of the jacket to the crotch and not the belt.

You wanna see how short it is? Look at the relation of the pocket flap seam and his belt on the below pic.



The left pocket bottom is almost above his belt...

It was never like that on Ford.

Dutch_jones wrote:What is so unique about the Raiders jacket, is one little thing I have not seen replicated yet. This jacket has a spot on collar though but the body length is TOO short for a raiders jacket. It fits like another leather jacket wearing movie hero though:

Thanks Dutch. And your Wolverine comment confirms the look I'm going for. It's a shorter, contemporary one, though I beleive the 2 aren't actually that different if you watch the movie.

Dutch_jones wrote:I really like the collar though its the best raiders collar out there ! and this is not a pun at TN, but your post above NB, you say Tony understands how the raiders jacket fits but there are key elements in the construction and another thing that are missing on the TN replica.

Which ones? You have a habit of throwing these things out there without really making any specific point. I'm happy to discuss what you mean if you actually say what it is.

OMG! How can people sit there and say that jacket is too short on him? And isn't it what Yojimbo wanted?

Oh, now I remember, it's the same couple people who say the same thing no matter what the jacket looks like as long as it's a Nowak jacket.

Yojimbo, argue with them all you want but in the end you'll still be in the same spot - wearing the best Indy jacket around.

RCSignals wrote:Funny thing is Dutch, all the jackets in Ford's size of all the movies seem to have the same front length of approximately 23".

That's the length you are saying is too short for the TN jacket, 23"

(Apologies for posting a ton of replies - I just woke up to a ton of posts and am addressing them as I go!)

Another key thing I left out, beyond personal preference re fit (which I measured to be right for me THEN found out from Tony is the same as 000 pattern), is that I am 6'1" - the same height as Ford. The jacket has his specs except for the sleeve length which is longer (thus maybe making the jacket look slightly shorter than in the movie) But in theory, it should be spot on. That whole "maths" thing, you know.

Castor Dioscuri wrote:..........

Hmm, come to think of it, I think I've just re-convinced myself again that it IS the right length, with help from RC!

any time

Castor Dioscuri wrote:Ah, and in response to your question, one is in the original length, and one is an inch or two longer than my first since it better matches an untucked look.

That's certainly understandable for the untucked look.