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This is why vendors stay in business...(pics added)
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:06 pm
by Indiana Green
So i was getting some taper in my JPD, and I thought to myself, "hmm...I shall make a homemade block..." Well, things didn't quite go as I'd hoped..... The picture below shows my blockshape and the resulting hat shape. I used some creativity with paint program rather than embarass myself with real pictures of this mess...
After blocking, the front of the hat does this funky pointy thing whenever I try to pinch it. Why does this happen? Why does the straight block front create such a weird angular profile for the front of the hat? I'm not asking the established hat makers to give away company secrets, but anyone who's done some experimenting with hat blocks, I'd apprecite some input!
-Indy Green
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:42 pm
by eazybox
That effect is called reverse taper and is desireable on a Raiders hat, but not to the extent that you have drawn it.
To lessen the reverse taper, your block should be slightly tapered as viewed from the side. You may also be deepening your center dent too much, and raising it a little should also help ameliorate the problem.
I don't think there are any trade secrets invloved, and perhaps some of the vendors will respond with their insights. Photos would probably be appreciated, though. I hope this helps.
Jack
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:31 am
by Indiana G
on a straight block like in your diagram.....and like my first block, putting in the center crease will bulge out the front and back of the hat. the front pinch will counter the bulge but of course the raiders pinch did not go all the way down to the ribbon. you are transitioning too quickly in the front and back as viewed from the side. if you put more curves in the dome, it will lessen the effect. the front and back taper should not be as curved as the sides though. you want the sides to be for the most part straight till it reaches the top where you have a shallow dome. what you've drawn as your blocks profile view should really be the front view.
you can use a block like this if you are really good at bashing the hat....ie - have more tricks in the back pocket than just creasing (ala 3thousandbucks......see $3K, i'm using you as a reference again
; with good reason as i think you have got to be the best 360 straight sided block basher that i've seen.....try saying that 3 times).
hope that helps. get the sand paper out.
G
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 4:59 am
by 3thoubucks
Yo, G! ............. Indiana Green, .. turning your hat, if you haven't done so, will lessen the effect. If you run a tape measure from 12:00 at the brim to crown transition point at the front of an unturned open crown, up over the crown to the 6:00 transition point at the back, the distance will be greater than at any other two points. So, if you turn the hat, the distance is less. I also think the Raiders hat was tight, and Ford's head stretched the base. .... You see the effect you illustrated in that pic of the guy who played the Nazi spy on the sea plane, possibly wearing Ford's hat.
I think his head was rounder than Fords, because it took all the swoop out of the brim. I'd make your block at least a quarter inch wider than your head, so the hat gets stretched a bit front to back when you wear it. That's with a block that gives you a very tight fit, perhaps the same circumfence as your head, to a 1/4 inch more. .. These video clips make me think the Raiders hat was a very tight fit.
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... on#p468410
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:17 am
by Indiana Green
Thanks alot for the tips guys! I'll take another shot at the block and see what I can come up with. I find this whole block making thing very fascinating. It really makes one appreciate the kind of work and research people do, both vendors and regular guys alike.
-Indy Green
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:25 pm
by ANZAC_1915
3thoubucks wrote:You see the effect you illustrated in that pic of the guy who played the Nazi spy on the sea plane, possibly wearing Ford's hat.
That is Denis Muren (of ILM). I didn't think he was wearing Ford's hat.
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:22 pm
by 3thoubucks
ANZAC_1915 wrote:
That is Denis Muren (of ILM). I didn't think he was wearing Ford's hat.
The hat was filthy. Only rich people flew across the Pacific in 1936. Why would this guy's costume include a dirty hat, unless they threw Ford's on him at the last minute?
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:11 am
by nicktheguy
I think what he's trying to say is that they made lots of hats for the film - perhaps they took a spare and bashed it up for another character - I think that may have happened in the SOC scene with the nazi suits.
--believe me this stuff happens in films...
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:30 am
by BendingOak
Indiana Green wrote:So i was getting some taper in my JPD, and I thought to myself, "hmm...I shall make a homemade block..." Well, things didn't quite go as I'd hoped..... The picture below shows my blockshape and the resulting hat shape. I used some creativity with paint program rather than embarass myself with real pictures of this mess...
After blocking, the front of the hat does this funky pointy thing whenever I try to pinch it. Why does this happen? Why does the straight block front create such a weird angular profile for the front of the hat? I'm not asking the established hat makers to give away company secrets, but anyone who's done some experimenting with hat blocks, I'd apprecite some input!
-Indy Green
I think you need to add a little front and back tapper to the block not much but some.
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:22 pm
by Fedora
The Raiders fedora did not have true reverse taper. It had a bulge that takes on that appearance. The front and back of the Raiders block has taper, and to not have that on the block used yields an inaccurate hat. The taper creasing out when you put the top crease in.
Me and others have been guilty of making the blocks too straight, while the real Raiders fedora did have taper, and not just on the front and back, but also the sides. It's the degree of taper that is elusive, because you see various amounts on all vintage blocks. Well, most of them. Getting just the right amount and the breaking points in the right spot is the hard part. But once you are close, you will know it.
Many of us have been guilty of caricaturing this Raiders fedora. Of course, even the caricatures will shrink and taper into a good Raiders fedora over time. The same cannot be said of a hat with too much taper when new. It just gets worse. Fedora
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:56 pm
by Indiana Green
Just a quick update...
I made myself a new block, with a completely different shape. This one's more dome-esque with some front taper and a rounder circumfirence. The sides, front, and back of the block transition sooner into the top, creating the more "dome-y" effect. I did all this and reblocked my hat last night and here are some observations:
1. The side profile is much better, though I'm still getting that weird point at the front pinch.
2. The back of the hat looks nice and the top of the creased hat, when view from the side, has a nice arch to it, front to back.
3. It appears my transition points on the sides of the block are too round, and the sides of the hat itself are too tapered. The overall roundness of the block alleviated this some, when the hat was put on my head (which is longer than the block shape). However, I still feel like the sides could stand to be a little straighter.
4. I ironed the brim flat, to get rid of all the weird wrinkles from blocking, and then for lack of a flange, I left the brim flat ironed. What's funny about this, is that when I put the hat on my head, the front of the brim popped down, and both sides of the hat swooped up, creating the same look as the right side of a turned hat. This fascinates me and leads me to believe that a shallow flange may lead to easier swoop, with less extreme turning. Just a theory though, as I have never used a flange before.
I think since I have some left over styrofoam, I may try to make myself a flange. It might not be sturdy, but hopefully it'll be enough to give my brim some curl. Anyway, I'll post some pics of my hat later so I can get some more feedback. Thanks again for the responses thus far
Indy Green
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:40 pm
by Indiana Green
Re: This is why vendors stay in business...(pics added)
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:43 pm
by WalkingEye
the side profile is really nice!!! ... but your block needs to be straighter on the right and left hand sides. when looking at the block from the front, the sides should be vertical until much closer to the top than you have it now. the transitions should look a bit squarer and the top less dome-y from the front view.
