Club Obi Wan

Just a few shots of stunt whips seen on screen (Mods, sorry about the size. I just want to make sure that people can see the detail.)






Kyle

Kewlness. I love me some David Morgans.

Nice, its cool to see the gigantic wrist loops for the stunts.

Good screen shots,
It's really nice to see the morgan got some screen time in the new film. With the various manufacturer types of whips used, it appears to me that the jacka really didn't get much screen time at all. Then again, running with a whip that has a huge diameter and weighs alot more that the morgan and would probably run the risk of pulling your pants down during a sprint...



Crack On!
Allen

Please tell me you're joking. The Jacka is what is seen MOST on screen.

Kyle

Yes, I am joking It was nice though that everyone got a "bow".


Crack On!
Allen

Thanks for posting these photos Kyle. Even though they are a bit big, but I think I’ll leave them for now. These are the best screen grabs I’ve seen of the stunt whips on set from the first three movies. It should be pretty clear to anyone now, that they where not just swinging around on regular David Morgan bullwhips.

If anyone missed the post by Will Morgan in the Screen Accurate Indy Whip Color thread, here are pictures he posted of the two stunt whips they supplied for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.





For those intrested, The material running through them is 3/16" black, tech 12 rope. (Though it looks more like gunmetal gray to me)



I belive it was produced by the Samson company. It's a twelve-strand single braid of Technorar fiber, A material related to nomex or kevlar but with better flex fatigue resistance and with a higher strength and a lower stretch; with a Samthane urethane coating that creates enhanced wear resistance. The material is it’s often used in sail riggings.

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?ind ... 200&inst=1

Dan

Did Joe Strain also make some cable covered whips for CS?

Indiana Jake

Jake to the best of my knowledge no, Joe Strain did not make any cable covered whips for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. The only safety whips used with cable/tec line in them where ordered from David Morgan. Joe’s bullwhips where however carried in the film by various stunt personal and do show up on screen from time to time.

Dan

I'm curious, why did they go with so many whipmakers this time? If ADL had a preference for TJs, why not just go with them?

Well, as has been stated before, Tony D. Might not have had as much to do with the selection of the whip as some people are giving him credit for. He claims that he had assumed that Harrison would be using a Morgan, and that he had Harrison USE a Morgan during their sessions together. Who came down with the final decision to use the Jacka over a Morgan or Strain or whoever, is I fear apocryphal until we get verifiable information that states otherwise.

But why not ALL Terry Jacka whips?

It's not all one department that orders whips for a movie of this magnatude.

The whips worn on the belt, (as in permanantly attached to the whip holder to prevent slipping,) are the wardrobe department.

Whips held, but not used in major action, (hero props, such as the one Harrison has over his shoulder. The one the Russian has at the beginning in the warehouse that he grabs and disarms the rifleman with,) are the props department. These are sometimes used in "Hero Shot" action, like the disarm.

And then stunt props like the Morgan used for swinging, and later the whip used to try to save Mac as the Temple implodes into singularity, (which may or may not have been one of the Jacka hero props.)

Different needs, different departments, different buyers. It's pretty typical.

Plus, HOW MANY whips were ACTUALLY needed for the production? With probably 3 or 4 "Hero Props," work whips for all the stunt guys who may be doubling for Harrison for various things, specialized props like the Morgan with the safety rope core, etc. etc. WHAT was the deadline that they needed to have them ALL by? Terry's a wunderkind, but he can only braid so fast.

Good point about the different departments. I was on a WWII-set production recently where the costume department issued one type of gas mask bag, whereas MKVIIs were only issued on set by the props guys. But I was under the impression only one whipmaker (you know who) was involved on the previous Indy movies (apart from the lion tamer whip in LC), so just wondering why the change here.

Different times. Plus the face that there weren't as MANY whipmakers out there, (especially in the US,) during the first three movies, (some of the best of the best in the US were barely out of diapers when Raiders came out!) And certainly during those first three films, not many people AT ALL were making them in that iconic Morgan "American Classic" style, (the heavy, rugged short-handle, reminiscent of the Old West, rather than the Australian style. The same things that inspired Indiana Jones inspired David Morgan. You can't help but feel the love that Morgan has for the historic American West, and also the Wild West of the Action Serials of the 50's in his book "Whips of the West.")

Another thing, The behind the scenes stuff for purchasing, scheduling, etc. etc. was VERY different on this film. Most of the studio stuff for the first three was based I BELIEVE out of Elstree Studios and therefore, Elstree was kind of the central "base of operations" for production, (hence Herbert Johnson and Wested.) For Indy IV, there was a lot of globe-trotting, (as in the first film,) but the base of operations were studios in SoCal...So, that will have a BIG difference on how day-to-day items are purchased and decisions are made, regardless if it's the same people at the helm or not.

Just my "ejumakated guess" on the sourcing for everything.

And isn't the lion tamer whip speculated to be a Morgan as well?

thefish wrote:
The whips worn on the belt, (as in permanantly attached to the whip holder to prevent slipping,) are the wardrobe department.

I don't think any of the whips were PERMANENTLY attached to the holder.

Kyle

They did it for Temple and Crusade. Just because nothing ruins a perfectly good take more than your lead actor tripping over a whip handle that's slipped down from his hip.

There's a shot in the "First Day of Shooting" video where they've got a Jacka in a whip holder that they're attaching to the belt.

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it would be easy to put the whip with the holder on, and THEN tie the whip down to it.

It looked to me like they did a modular kind of belt setup so they could attach a regular whip holder to carry a whip that could be pulled off, and then for running and action scenes where the belt is on the hip, pull it off and attach an immobile holder/whip combo with the whip semi-pemanantly attached.

You might very well be right. I don't know. But if I was the stunt coordinator or director, I'd do up at least one non-removable coiled whip just to cut down on the things that could go wrong in a shot, for economy and safety if nothing else.

(And because I never said it before, thanks BWB! I hadn't seen those pics of the Morgan with the safety line core. I don't know how I missed those from Will the first time around!)

-The Other Dan

thefish wrote:They did it for Temple and Crusade. Just because nothing ruins a perfectly good take more than your lead actor tripping over a whip handle that's slipped down from his hip.

There's a shot in the "First Day of Shooting" video where they've got a Jacka in a whip holder that they're attaching to the belt.

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it would be easy to put the whip with the holder on, and THEN tie the whip down to it.

It looked to me like they did a modular kind of belt setup so they could attach a regular whip holder to carry a whip that could be pulled off, and then for running and action scenes where the belt is on the hip, pull it off and attach an immobile holder/whip combo with the whip semi-pemanantly attached.

You might very well be right. I don't know. But if I was the stunt coordinator or director, I'd do up at least one non-removable coiled whip just to cut down on the things that could go wrong in a shot, for economy and safety if nothing else.

The only reason I say that I doubt they permanently attached a whip is because there is a shot of HF in LC here
http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=43667
with fishing line securing the whip. Also, the scene in CS where they are running to the river shows the whip almost completely uncoiled as "Indy" (stuntman) is running. So I just think that if the whip were permanently attached, this wouldn't have happened and there would not have been a need for fishing line.

Kyle

Satipo, basically the reason for so many whip makers on the Crystal Skull film was that the first bullwhips ordered early in preproduction, including the stunt whips where ordered from David Morgan, since that’s where the original whips came from.

When Anthony De Longis was brought in a few months later as whip coach, he wanted to go with the Terry Jacka bullwhips, which he felt where better suited to his style of whip cracking. Terry only made around 7 whips that made it to the set in time, two 8ft whips and five 10ft whips. When production started getting underway, it was realized that additional bullwhips where needed for the stunt personnel, etc. Terry couldn’t get them made and sent fast enough, so they went to Western Stage Props who in turn had Joe Strain make seven more bullwhips in saddle tan.

Harrison Ford did use a David Morgan bullwhip that belonged to Anthony during initial training, he didn’t care for the long handled whips that Anthony had and the new Terry Jacka bullwhips, which where ordered had not arrived yet. Once they arrived, Harrison liked using them.

The Last Crusade lion tamer bullwhip is a David Morgan whip.

Several of the the bullwhips worn on the belt in the Original films where secured in a coil with metal wire, not fishing; line to keep them from unraveling during the scenes. I actully came across a screen used Last Crusade bullwhip a few years ago that still had this metal wire attached to it. Nothing I have seen so far suggested this was done in KOTCS though.

Dan

Great info, Dan! Thanks for clearing all that up.

I'm guessing next time around they'll be better prepared and more consistent with their providers.

Alright, I've gotta say it - who around here is going to be the first to order a SA David Morgan technorar-cored whip with additional stunt/wrist loop?

Solent MKIII wrote:Alright, I've gotta say it - who around here is going to be the first to order a SA David Morgan technorar-cored whip with additional stunt/wrist loop?

Trust me, if DM took custom orders, and DAVID would be the one braiding it, I would definitely be the one to order it!

Kyle

But David didn't do those ones

Some stunt whip pics from KOTCS:
- Jacka whip
- here is stunt whip

edit - I changed links.

It doesn't show any pictures

Kyle

Ya know, I am surprised none of the whip manufactures here tried making a replica of the cable whip. At least nothing showed up in the search for this..

Crack On!
Allen

The only stunt whip is the one of him on the cables swinging, which is the Morgan. The whip in the first pic looks like a real one and the last pic is just him on wires/ no whip at all

Kyle