Club Obi Wan

I just came accross a really great site called IMFDB.org. It stands for Internet Movie Firearms Data Base. It's a site that lists and gives info on all the various firearms used in movies, TV shows, and video games. It's a Wiki site so anyone is allowed to contribute information.

The Indy movie pages where really informative but there was a lot of incorrect information presented. I just spent the last couple of days updating, deleting and adding info on all the guns used in the Indy movies. I believe it's pretty accurate now so click on a link below and go check it out!!!!




Raiders of the Lost Ark

Temple of Doom

Last Crusade

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Very informative! Thanks for posting.

Great site again, thanks for the post.

Now I have to buy more pistols and rifles-what a shame.

Sebastian

Looks like some of the screen caps from the main site were lifted.

Read this paragraph about the TofD gun:

Indiana Jones (Harrison Ford) loses his Colt Official Police at the beginning of the film when Willie drops it out of the getaway car after they exit club Obi Wan. Indy's had a 4" barrel and was .38 special. It had been thought that the Temple of Doom gun was the Colt New Service M1917 or possibly one of the cut down S&W's from Raiders of the Lost Ark, but new evidence and first hand information from members of IndyGear's Club Obi Wan has led to the discovery that it was a 4 inch Colt Official Police .38.

I know it's under discussion, but nothing conclusive has been made to my knowledge of it being an Official Police .38. It's a good candidate, that's for sure, but listing COW as the 'source' without checking with the administration first isn't good. What 'first hand information' are they talking about?

In posting absolutes as read above, one must approach things like this as you would a court of law. Viewing all the fuzzy out of focus photos of the revolver that have been shown to date, can one say with absolute certainty the revolver in question is a Colt Official Police .38? I know I can't, but can say from all evidence shown, it's a good candidate....but that's ALL I can say. It's a best guess, and should be stated as such.

'First hand information'? 'Site your source' would be my first question if this had been turned in for peer review.

Lots of problems here, and all credited to IG. If somehow in the future it's proven NOT to be a Colt OP, COW is credited for an incorrect piece of information that COW had no say so about.

Not good.

Regards! Michaelson

Hey All,

Wouldn't the first hand info be the fellow who said he talked to Stembridge? Seems to me that "Imitation is the highest form of flattery!"

Dan S

Alkali Jones wrote:Hey All,

Wouldn't the first hand info be the fellow who said he talked to Stembridge? Seems to me that "Imitation is the highest form of flattery!"

Dan S

Then the man at Stembridge should be the source sited, not Indygear. The discovery discussion, sure....'first hand' information, no. That implies it was a member of the community being personally involved with the production. That is not the case here.

You're talking about 'researched' information rather than 'first hand'. 'First hand' would be like posts made by Peter Botwright, Tony Nowak, Marc Kitter or Steve Delk. 'Researched' information covers the rest of us.

Regards! Michaelson

Here is the thread with the researched info regarding the TOD gun.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38086

OK, I will remove the Indygear COW reference. I was just trying to spread the word about this great site of ours.

Sorry to ruffle some feathers!

No feathers were ruffled. It's just a good idea to make the best and most correct (emphasis on the word 'correct') public presentation possible when doing writing like this.

Any seeds you plant today that aren't sewn right can, and will, eventually come back around and bite you in the proverbial backside if all eventualities aren't addressed.

For example, as I mentioned above, and from your own linked thread:

The gun being used by Ford and Capshaw is either the Colt or the S&W that was originally intended for use by one of the gangsters. Which one - it is difficult to tell from the very brief views we get in the film, so I will leave that for debate here.

Regards,
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London
http://www.propstore.com

So, we see that even the 'first hand' individual isn't sure, and therefore it is still inconclusive WHICH gun was fired by Ford, for the very reason I stated above, and backed by Mr. Alinger's comment. The photo just does not give us a clear view of the bottom of the barrel as to whether or not it has a barrel shrold, indicating Colt or Smith. Both would still have a 4 inch barrel.

What IS so ironic to me is after all these years of publically questioning if it was actually a Smith tossed out the window in the film rather than a Colt, is the fact that it could have been a Colt being fired inside the car instead of the always believed Smith. A complete 180 degree turn around of 'known facts'.

Thanks for sharing the link, Bond. It is an interesting compilation.

Regards! Michaelson

very cool

What's cool Jack? The web site, the point Michaelson made of accurately reporting your sources, or the example he gave in his last posting (the Smith being the gun used in ToD).

Michaelson,

Yes I do agree it would be best if we are 100% sure of our facts before letting the world now our findings. However for many years we all thought we were 100% sure about the Webley MK VI being the LC gun. We were wrong about that. We now have corrected our mistake, and the world continued on with no major repercussions. It is just a movie and this is just a harmless little hobby that we all enjoy. I do agree that if we are wrong about the Colt being the TOD gun it wouldn't look good, but the world wouldn't come crashing down upon us. But if we are right, then it would shed a good light on our little group here at COW. That's all I was trying to do is shed a good light on us all. But I will play it safe as you recommend and I have removed the reference to IndyGear and COW.

As far as the Colt being the TOD gun I will continue this discussion over on the other thread as that's where I think it belongs. So link on over and I will try to continue to press my arguments regarding the TOD gun.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=38086&start=27

Thank you all!!

True, but we corrected those mistakes in house. If it were proven later that the gun used in the car in TofD were NOT a Colt Official Police, it would be the community at Indygear with egg on it's face, NOT the writer of the article based at another site.

There's enough doubt that it could have been written ,"In discussions at Club Obi Wan at Indygear.com, it was recently discovered in review of clearer frame grabs by members that the revolver used in the auto chase was NOT a Colt 1917, or one of the Raiders used Smith and Wessons. In interview with (insert name here) of propstore.com, it was discovered that it could have been one of two revolvers used (insert his story verbatim regarding Ford not getting the WG for the chase, but was handed the wrong gun instead. Add his last statement of due to the fuzzy nature of the still shots, it's not clear exactly WHICH revolver was used)."

Then present photos of the TWO revolvers...the Colt OP, and the SMith M/P with complete descriptions of the guns.

Once done, THEN you present your theory of it being the OP, and why, but leave enough wiggle room that the jury is still out, and hopefully that door can be finally closed on which revolver it was.

This way it's shown as research, plausible conclusions but with the door open for further research and discussion, and you get to mention where it all took place, Indygear/COW. Win-win.

Yes, it's just a 'harmless hobby', as you say, but it's due to the way we handle ourselves and the way we present our information to the public/members that Lucas and co. came to US to do research for CS rather than other sites. We may be a hobby, but we'd rather be right than HOPE we're right when presenting researched information.

When we err to the side of caution, there's a reason.

Regards! Michaelson

Point well taken Sir Michaelson!

There shall be no further issues regarding putting the IndyGear and COW names out there to the public as the references have been removed.

I apologize for my "Indy Moment" and making a "leap of faith" regarding the info I posted! I guess I'm just more of a "risk taker" than most and from now on I will try to follow the "Marcus Brody" school of diplomacy!

Thanks again for your wise words of wisdom!

You are a 'comrade in arms', my friend. No need to thank me for a thing!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

IB, does the Marcus Brody approach mean you are going to lose your head, a la KOTCS?

RZ

Loose my head! I hope not!!

Actually it was a reference to do things more "diplomatically" and "by the book". In other words, if Marcus was to acquire an artifact he would make sure everything was done through the proper channels with all the correct paper work filled out. Indy would just grab it and run!!!

True, but Marcus also once got lost in his own museum....so it happens to the best of us.

Regards! Michaelson

Thanks for posting the link! It's very informative.

Thanks for the post!

Kyle

Just found this web site and came back to see if you guys had found it. Love to see all the gun pics in one place.

Thanks for posting this information. Great Links on the guns used in the movies.

IndianaRedmon

Great link. Thanks for the resource.

And if this has been discussed ad nauseum, forgive the oversight of the newcomer, but I wonder why the switch to the Webley. The Smith and Wessons of Raiders (or a Colt) seems a more obvious choice or Indy, even considering his London connections (both in film and his character's history).

There have been a lot of updates and many new photos posted to the sites listed below since I first started this thread. So click on a link below and go check it out!!!!




Raiders of the Lost Ark

Temple of Doom

Last Crusade

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

@Indiana Bond
Wooow! There have ben a lot of updates really! Cool! Thanks for posting!

Hi all...
What about at least dropping the name COW/Indygear as a place to learn more about your favorite archeologist?

There have been a few more updates made by myself and others. You may want to check them out!

Indiana Bond wrote:There have been a few more updates made by myself and others. You may want to check them out!

It's still saying the TOD drop gun is a M1917. Am I missing something?

Dragonlady Jones wrote: It's still saying the TOD drop gun is a M1917. Am I missing something?

Just went in and corrected that back again. The thing with that website is that anyone can change or add things to the site and I'm sure that there are many out there that still believe that it was a Colt M1917.

Indiana Bond wrote:
Just went in and corrected that back again. The thing with that website is that anyone can change or add things to the site and I'm sure that there are many out there that still believe that it was a Colt M1917.

Good work. I'm glad you've taken the responsibility of keeping the ignorant public informed!

Just a quick update to this thread after 2 1/2 years! I found another pretty good Indy gun website. Here is the Link:

http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/Indy's_pistol" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like they pulled a lot of info that I provided for the imfdb sites. That's fine with me and makes for good accuracy. It does seem that on this site they try to include all the various guns Indy uses including those from the "Young Indy" series, the books, and the video games. Furthermore they try to put things in chronological order which gives a nice new perspective on things.

An interesting point they make is that in ROTLA Indy's first gun (the Stembridge) is taken by Belloq in Peru (Hawaii). So when he returns home and needs to pack he pulls out his second or "backup" gun (the Bapty) and tosses it in his suitcase. That means Indy actually owned 2 cut down S&W revolvers! A S&W 1917 in 45ACP and a S&W Mk II Hand Ejector in .455. So to be accurate we all need both guns!! The photos below do show the "Stembridge" being confiscated in Peru and the "Bapty" in the suitcase.





You can see the unusual sight of the "Stembridge" and the S&W medalion on the grip of the "Bapty".

I had never looked at it in this way and for some reason had always thought his 4" S&W would have always been the same gun. This does make it explanable why we see 2 different guns.

The Stembridge's front sight might be unusual in that it's not a commonly seen sight nowadays, but that's what S&W used back then. Historically, it would be the Bapty's sight that's unusual.



Edit: The day after I linked the original picture, the site expired. Go figure.

I just noticed the for the first time last week that when Indy unwraps his gun at home it's the "Stembridge"


but, once it lands in the suitcase, it is the Bapty....

You can clearly see the grip medallion in the above picture.

I've never seen anyone mention it here before.

I was a little confused at first, but suddenly it makes sense. In the one semi-clear frame when Indy tosses the gun, the Bapty's ramp sight is discernible. It didn't make sense in terms of continuity for there to be two revolvers for one scene, but I'll bet the insert shot of the Stembridge was a pickup in LA (while the majority of the scene was shot on a stage in England, where the Bapty lived). The carpet isn't visible in the scene (only hardwood floors), and I'm not even sure that's the same smoking jacket...

Good catch! (I'm sure they both have grip medallions, but we never really see the top of the Stembridge's grips in good light.)

Yes, I know all about the "reappearance" of the "Stembridge" in the apartment close-up shots and it's "mid-flight transformation" into the "Bapty" as proved through the photos and this statement:

BrandonA18 wrote:Hi all,

The Stembridge gun makes two appearances in Raiders - when Ford pulls it from his revolver after rolling out of the temple (Kauai) and for the extreme close up of the gun when it is rolled out of the cloth. This is an insert shot done later in the US, likely without Ford. You can tell the robe the stand-in is wearing is different. The wide shot of Ford tossing the gun into the suitcase is the BAPTY gun, shot in the apartment set at Elstree.

Regards,
Brandon Alinger
The Prop Store of London
http://www.propstore.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Unfortunately they couldn't use the "Bapty" for the close up shots in the apartment as that is the gun it supposed to have been. Had they been able to use the "Bapty" for the close-up shots there would never have been this confusion.

My point being that in my mind I had always thought that Indy only owned ONE 4 inch S&W. I knew that for production reasons they had to use 2 different guns. Now I realize that he was supposed to have owned TWO different guns as the first one was lost in Peru to Belloq. The second one being his "back-up" that was kept in is drawer in his apartment. My confussion came from those close-ups in the apartment as it is cleary the "Stembridge" which he had just lost in Peru. So I had always thought that somehow he had gotten it back. That was not the intent as it shoud have been the "Bapty" which was his second "back-up" gun.

Sorry to drag this out again but it was a revelation in my own head that had been bugging me for years!!

Thanks!

Hey, it's all part of the fun (for me, anyway).

And not only did he need another revolver, but he needed another whip, too! That Belloq was such a klepto...

Oildale Jones wrote: And not only did he need another revolver, but he needed another whip, too! That Belloq was such a klepto...

I figure Indy would have had lot's of whips. Didn't think the same about a 4 inch S&W. Must of had a great gunsmith as a close friend!! And yes Belloq was definately a "klepto"!!!

Oildale Jones wrote:(I'm sure they both have grip medallions, but we never really see the top of the Stembridge's grips in good light.)

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22024

kwad wrote:

Oildale Jones wrote:(I'm sure they both have grip medallions, but we never really see the top of the Stembridge's grips in good light.)

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22024

That's right, no medallion on the "Stembridge". That's why we can be sure that the gun in the suitcase is the "Bapty" even without seeing the front sight. The gun in the suitcase can clearly be seen with the medallion on the grip. So it must be the "Bapty".

Don't confuse me with facts!!!

I stand corrected. The groove threw me off. (Or is that a crease?)

Since we have gotten a bit off track in this thread, I'll repost the original reason for this thread.

Here are a few websites with some great info on the INDY GUNS!!




Indy's Handguns

Raiders of the Lost Ark

Temple of Doom

Last Crusade

Kingdom of the Crystal Skull

Thanks for posting. The "Indy Guns" site was interesting.