Club Obi Wan

I made this thread to hear what people think of the thread is used on the wested jackets.

I came to think about maby supplying a 100% poly thread for wested to use on my next jacket. I would like to have a thread that says something like ''bring it on'' lets go!

what can I say...I know wested does not use the weakest thread in the world. but it is not the strongest either.its a cotten poly blend.

IMO there is just something about knowing that you are wearing a tough hide with a tough thread. that way you dont have to worrie about the jacket.


IMO the thread IS half the jacket....that is what keeps it all together and not falling apart.



lets hear your thoughts and your experience with this issue.

Source teh thread G&B use - it's written down here somehwere. By the way (edit) cotton, over a poly core is meant to be one of the best threads you can get.

I believe that a totally poly thread will eventually cut through the leather. I did post what G&B uses in one of these threads somewhere.

Tex 80 or Tex 60 it was. Something like that.

But why can't Wested get decent thread themselves? Don't understand unless it's harder to work with or very expensive.

The stuff G&B or US Wings uses should be more than enough to handle the leathers that Wested uses.

I know Aero Leather uses the best of the best threads but it may be a bit overkill for Wested products.

Browncoat wrote:The stuff G&B or US Wings uses should be more than enough to handle the leathers that Wested uses.

I know Aero Leather uses the best of the best threads but it may be a bit overkill for Wested products.

Leather is leather. It may be different thicknesses, and tanned differently, and made from different animals but essentially it's the same. Are you saying that Wested horsehide is weaker than Aero horsehide (for instance)? I understand the stuff Aero uses might be more costly because of how it was tanned or perhaps the grade, but that shouldn't make a difference to its strength. With thread you're dealing with two factors that matter, it's strength and its ability to cut through leather. The other part of the equation is the stitch per inch count.

Raider S wrote:Tex 80 or Tex 60 it was. Something like that.

But why can't Wested get decent thread themselves? Don't understand unless it's harder to work with or very expensive.

It's just a question of knowledge. I doubt that the extra cost of the thread would make that much of a difference.

Rundquist wrote:I asked Dave Marshall from G&B about what they use and he told me they use something called "Tex-60" on leather. It is a thread that has a cotton outer and a polyester inner. The cotton has the right look, and ages like old thread, and keeps the polyester from cutting through the leather. The inner polyester part of the thread is there for strength. Cheers

I found it.

I think you first need to find out what Wested uses and what they can have available.

Didn't they use a very tough thread on your HH?

RCSignals wrote:I think you first need to find out what Wested uses and what they can have available.

Didn't they use a very tough thread on your HH?

I just remember that Paterson had a HH Wested some years back and it fell apart on him after sliding down a hill. Perhaps they have changed their thread since then.

funny this came up,I love my otr goat but the thread on some of the seams is getting fuzzy,showed it to the wife and she said I was over reacting to my beloved Indy jacket,but none of my A-2's have done that or even my 100.00 A-2 from India that was from a newspaper special, so am I over reacting or is it a sign the thread is going to give at some point? I stoped thinking about it untill I saw this post.

Holt, I added the word 'sewing' to your subject title.

Everytime I came in and saw your 'wested thread' title, I kept thinking..'What? Another one?! Do a search! "

Carry on.

Regards! Michaelson

Rundquist wrote: Leather is leather. It may be different thicknesses, and tanned differently, and made from different animals but essentially it's the same. Are you saying that Wested horsehide is weaker than Aero horsehide (for instance)? I understand the stuff Aero uses might be more costly because of how it was tanned or perhaps the grade, but that shouldn't make a difference to its strength. With thread you're dealing with two factors that matter, it's strength and its ability to cut through leather. The other part of the equation is the stitch per inch count.

First off I never stated that Wested leather is inferior to Aero in anyway. However, it seems to me that you've answered your own question here.

Fact is that if you attaching 4 oz pieces of cow or horse with the typical thread used for a fashion lamb the chances are greater that the thread will fail at some point. It'll work but it might not last. Holt wants something to last.

Now reversing the thinking-- if you use a thread designed for thicker leather to hold together a lamb Indy...it's probably overkill. It will work but the thread will just add to cost of supplies used. This is probably why Wested uses the threads that they do for their leathers. It works for their products and is cost effective.

Seems to me that the orginal issue Holt wants to address could simply be solved by adding to the stitch count and not changing the thread.

Michaelson wrote:Holt, I added the word 'sewing' to your subject title.

Everytime I came in and saw your 'wested thread' title, I kept thinking..'What? Another one?! Do a search! "

Carry on.

Regards! Michaelson

thanks mark.

it was actually my intention to have the word 'sewing' in it.

somehow I forgot to ad that


bests
Eric

I seem to remember that Wested use a poly core with a cotton outer, he used a term with a number behind it a bit like the one mentioned above but I don't recall it!

I think tanning and grade of leather will absolutely make a difference in the strength. Think about cowhide: thicker portions, thinner, healthier animal etc. Lot's of variability. Then think what it goes through. They use cowhide for jackets, shoes, saddles, furniture... lots of different applications and distinctly different strengths, both to puncture and tearing.

I agree, the stitch count plays a big role. Stitchcount, leather sourced, and thread type - all need to be well matched.

Stitchcount, leather sourced, and thread type - all need to be well matched.

Those are all things that lead to 'mil-spec' items as well.

Regard !Michaelson

Browncoat wrote:

Rundquist wrote: Leather is leather. It may be different thicknesses, and tanned differently, and made from different animals but essentially it's the same. Are you saying that Wested horsehide is weaker than Aero horsehide (for instance)? I understand the stuff Aero uses might be more costly because of how it was tanned or perhaps the grade, but that shouldn't make a difference to its strength. With thread you're dealing with two factors that matter, it's strength and its ability to cut through leather. The other part of the equation is the stitch per inch count.

First off I never stated that Wested leather is inferior to Aero in anyway. However, it seems to me that you've answered your own question here.

Fact is that if you attaching 4 oz pieces of cow or horse with the typical thread used for a fashion lamb the chances are greater that the thread will fail at some point. It'll work but it might not last. Holt wants something to last.

Now reversing the thinking-- if you use a thread designed for thicker leather to hold together a lamb Indy...it's probably overkill. It will work but the thread will just add to cost of supplies used. This is probably why Wested uses the threads that they do for their leathers. It works for their products and is cost effective.

Seems to me that the orginal issue Holt wants to address could simply be solved by adding to the stitch count and not changing the thread.

Leather is leather. Sure some leather is tougher than other leather, but that should not have a bearing on the techniques used for sewing and/or the thread used. Actually, adding “more” stitches per inch can make the thread go right through the leather. There is a specific margin that the stitch count should stay within. This is knowledge that jacket makers have, or at least should have. Cheers


PS- It wouldn't matter to me if you said that Wested was inferior to Aero. An opinion is an opinion. I just wanted to understand your line of thinking.

Jacksdad, you're right about the OTR goat thread being fuzzy.. it will eventually split.. mine did.. in more then 1 place.. the otr thread is super weak!

I know we've definitely already discussed Wested thread in another post. However, since old posts tend to get buried, it's probably worth repeating for the sake of the newbies who come to this site when thinking about their jacket needs.

I have also had trouble with the thread on my Wested. The leather is amazing, the craftsmanship is spectacular, and the thread starts to fall apart with very little provocation. I was leaning over a concrete barrier; the leather didn't get so much as a scrape, but the thread on the pockets fell apart.

I do wonder whether repairs over the years will end up costing more than a new jacket from G&B.

Rundquist wrote: Leather is leather. Sure some leather is tougher than other leather, but that should not have a bearing on the techniques used for sewing and/or the thread used. Actually, adding “more” stitches per inch can make the thread go right through the leather. There is a specific margin that the stitch count should stay within. This is knowledge that jacket makers have, or at least should have. Cheers


PS- It wouldn't matter to me if you said that Wested was inferior to Aero. An opinion is an opinion. I just wanted to understand your line of thinking.

Well my line of thinking is thread and how to reinforce a Wested as this topic suggests. The whole Aero versus Wested is originates from you. If you want to state your opinion, have at it.

I have never compared vendors or their leathers in my posts for this thread, never stated any opinion thereof. It was never my point.

US Wings and G&B advertise mil spec jackets. Aero states that their thread is "3.25 stronger than needed".

So the leather, thread, stitch count, equipment, technique, and the experience of the machinist must have some bearing on how a jacket is produce. A thread with a greater tensile strength should hold together a jacket together better than a jacket with weaker thread. If the stitching is cutting right through the jacket than the machinist putting together the jacket isn't do something right and needs to makes adjustments.

Aero states that their thread is "3.25 stronger than needed".

I've read that one before, and to me it was one of those non-sensical marketing statements that really tells you nothing. What, exactly, is their definition of 'needed'. Stronger than mil-spec? 3.25 times stronger than just enough to barely keep your sleeve on the jacket? Stonger than standard one ply cotton thread to withstand a F4 tornado (which would be pretty useless, regardless of material, if you've ever been around a F4 tornado!)? What?

An impressive statement, '3.25 time stonger', but pretty useless information without more data as comparison.

Sorry for the short rant, but I've read an AWFUL lot of marketing statements in the past few days regarding gear that, as great as they sound, are the vendors selling the 'sizzle' and not the 'steak', as it were.

Back to topic......

Regards! Michaelson

It's kinda like the household with 2.5 kids. I'm not sure I want to see half a kid!

LOL All I know is that 60% of the time it works every time. /end of my off topic

Again, I really not sure Wested needs to change thread per se. I think their thread works for their products. Perhaps stitching or other reinforcing techniques?

Truth be told I have never beaten on any of my jackets so I have never had a thread problem. Water is I stop when it comes to distressing. Total desktop adventurer when it comes to my Indy gear.

Browncoat wrote:

Rundquist wrote: Leather is leather. Sure some leather is tougher than other leather, but that should not have a bearing on the techniques used for sewing and/or the thread used. Actually, adding “more” stitches per inch can make the thread go right through the leather. There is a specific margin that the stitch count should stay within. This is knowledge that jacket makers have, or at least should have. Cheers


PS- It wouldn't matter to me if you said that Wested was inferior to Aero. An opinion is an opinion. I just wanted to understand your line of thinking.

Well my line of thinking is thread and how to reinforce a Wested as this topic suggests. The whole Aero versus Wested is originates from you. If you want to state your opinion, have at it.

I have never compared vendors or their leathers in my posts for this thread, never stated any opinion thereof. It was never my point.

US Wings and G&B advertise mil spec jackets. Aero states that their thread is "3.25 stronger than needed".

So the leather, thread, stitch count, equipment, technique, and the experience of the machinist must have some bearing on how a jacket is produce. A thread with a greater tensile strength should hold together a jacket together better than a jacket with weaker thread. If the stitching is cutting right through the jacket than the machinist putting together the jacket isn't do something right and needs to makes adjustments.

I guess I need to be more to the point. In your posts you suggest that Wested uses a strong enough thread (for their leather jackets), but they need to do a better job with their stitching specifications/technique. I would argue that they do not use a strong enough thread.

While their stitching is perhaps not as fine or straight as some of their competitors’ product, the cases of stitching failure on their jackets (that I’ve heard about) all come from broken thread and not their specific stitching technique.

Remember, there are two types of stitching failure. One is broken thread and the other type stems from the thread ripping through the leather, which can either be caused by too many stitches per inch, or by a thread that easily cuts through the leather (like polyester).

Since I have not heard of any Wested stitching failures of the second type, I have to assume that the thread that they are using is not strong enough. I don’t really mean to bust your balls, but this is a serious issue for me. My biggest complaint with Wested product at this point is their stitching deficiencies. Cheers

Of course, stitching can come undone if the sewing technique is faulty - when threads are not ended properly and reinforced, for instance. I suspect that this may be Wested's probelm more so than the type of thread. They are costume makers, are they not? And costumes only need to be made well enough to last a few days. Maybe techniques has never been an issue for them.

If we find out that Wested use the same generic thread as G&B what do we focus on next? What thread does Tony N use?

I think it is very interesting that one maker of jackets so frequently has quality issues and it isn't just beacuse they sell more than the others, or is it?

CM wrote:Of course, stitching can come undone if the sewing technique is faulty - when threads are not ended properly and reinforced, for instance. I suspect that this may be Wested's probelm more so than the type of thread. They are costume makers, are they not? And costumes only need to be made well enough to last a few days. Maybe techniques has never been an issue for them.

If we find out that Wested use the same generic thread as G&B what do we focus on next? What thread does Tony N use?

I think it is very interesting that one maker of jackets so frequently has quality issues and it isn't just beacuse they sell more than the others, or is it?

I hear all these horror stories and then look at my 4 fantastic Westeds and I just have to rub my chin. NO ISSUES HERE.

2 of them had daily wear for upwards of a year and a half each and are now in rotation.

I would prefer a stronger thread. On my USwings I have actually sanded the thread in the process of aging the jacket and they hold up. One thing I would like is that Wested have stronger sewing techniques.... My OTR has many areas where the thread is popping out. My jacket has just been worn normally under normal conditions and there are several areas were the stitching is coming undone.... Not cool.