LLS Rabbit Raiders Project (Hat Pics Added)

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:59 pm

Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to let ya'll know the status of the new rabbit felt Raiders hat project. Since I returned from my training with Fedora, my first order of business has been to construct my hat blocks. I had my block maker to work up a basic block that I am finishing to my specs. This has been an experience in itself.

Making one size block is one thing, but duplicating it in various sizes is a task in itself. Being nitpicky is a pain sometimes.

. I should be finishing up this weekend, though!

Very excited that I have my first felt order on its way!

. Soft and floppy.....sweet! The sweatband I want to use is luxurious! I have samples in various colors coming. I have a name for the hat, but I will hold off on that info till later.

# I know, I know. It sounds like I am saying a whole lot of nothing. Kind of like the pre-order promise from Kenner when they first came out with Star Wars characters. ;-). I am just so excited about this that I just had to write something.
Good news for those of you who have taken advantage of the pre-order notice from the Cairo Bazaar, if all goes as expected, I hope to start shipping those out in March.

$\:D/$ I am just as anxious as many of you to see a completed rabbit felt Raiders hat.

This surveyor will update this thread as each corner is turned.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:15 pm

Any news on what type of prices we can expect? I'll be very early on the list.... -M

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:41 am

Hey Mulceber,
Thanks for the question. I posted the cost of the hat in the Cairo Bazaar section. I don't want to cross the site rules and the intent of this thread is to discuss the upcoming hat itself. So just check out that thread and that will answer your question.
On another note, I have worn my AB for the last four years, as well as much close enough gear, and it has held up fantasticly. Quite a legacy to hold to.

LLS

MOD EDIT: viewtopic.php?t=37334

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:52 am

Happy to hear you are working on it LLS. By the way, you left your templates here for this block. If you need em' let me know and I wil mail them to you. (After I make me a copy!!)

I can see how they would come in handy for replicating. If it doesn't fit, sand, sand, sand! Although I guess these templates are only for one size hat, I can see how you could make different sets for the other sizes, using this one.

I can't wait to see some of these soft rabbit bodies coming off of this block. I really think what you will get will tickle you. The rabbit hat I blocked on it here, although too stiff in the brim, has taken on a stellar look with some wear. Plus, I stomped on it last night and was amazed at the reverse taper on the back that came from the bulge from getting stomped on! To me, it looks like if you stomped on a new rabbit hat from you, and then drooped the brim down, you will have the best SOC fedora ever sold on this forum. If you stomp on a beaver hat, it comes out looking still new, but not so for the rabbit. Rabbit distresses so well, and that really helps in getting some of the looks from the film. Fedora

Local Land Surveyor · Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:41 am

OMG!!!! The cat is out of the bag!!! Templates left behind!!!!

Not to worry. The master set is in the safe in the R&D department at my secret facility. ;-) . I meant to leave those with you. Just forgot to tell you.

. They are yours my friend.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:21 am

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Hey Mulceber,
Thanks for the question. I posted the cost of the hat in the Cairo Bazaar section. I don't want to cross the site rules and the intent of this thread is to discuss the upcoming hat itself. So just check out that thread and that will answer your question.
On another note, I have worn my AB for the last four years, as well as much close enough gear, and it has held up fantasticly. Quite a legacy to hold to.

LLS

MOD EDIT: viewtopic.php?t=37334

Sorry, LLS, I didn't realize the prices had already been posted. My mistake.

-M

Local Land Surveyor · Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:02 pm

As Arnold would say " No Problemo".

Oh and Thanks Mod's.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:20 pm

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:31 pm

steve.......let me send you an address as to where to send those templates.....i'll make sure LLS gets them PDQ!!!!

{pssst....ohio.......fire up the photo-copier!!!}

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:36 pm

No offense but whoa!!! You're just starting and already asking 250 dollars for a rabbit felt hat ! thats way too much ,

the last ones from ab ranged from 100-150 dollars. If it was a beaver hat i'd say ok still too much for just a starters hat, but still..
No one's seen your hats,

I think you're asking way to much. Lets see your work first then you can raise the price as you get along. this is just greedy starting out at 250.

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:22 pm

Hey Dutch,
"No Hat For You!!!!

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:27 pm

LLS, will the hats have a little bit of stiffner in them? I've never owned a "floppy" hat before. I'd think it would he hard to keep the hat's shape if it was to soft.

Also, how "water repellent" are these hats going to be? Same as say an Akubra rabbit or some of the other brands?

IF you can achieve the same, if not better, quality of rabbit felt hat that I have with my AB Rabbit then I'm sold. ;-)

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:28 pm

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Hey Dutch,
"No Hat For You!!!!

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:47 pm

Hey Pitfall,
Great question. I own an Optimo and I loved the way it was floppy soft. This was in part due to the thickness (body weight) of the felt they use. You really had to check your hat because it was so soft the bashes would change if the wind blew.

The felt I am using is a little thicker and holds itself a little better. I own several Akubra's. Too rigid in my book for what I want. It took some "breaking in" to get it to the floppy state, but the denseness of the felt still makes them a little too rigid for my taste. Has that been your experience? To the point, the felt should fall between Optimo and Akubra. I never owned one of Fedora's rabbit from back in the day, but I suspect that my felt will fall in his catagory.
I will be adding a water treatment to the felt. It is wonderful stuff! Should make the hat good and water resistant. Fedora walked me through the water drip test he had that showed how water resistant each felt type was. Very enlightening.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:02 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:No offense but whoa!!! You're just starting and already asking 250 dollars for a rabbit felt hat ! thats way too much ,

the last ones from ab ranged from 100-150 dollars. If it was a beaver hat i'd say ok still too much for just a starters hat, but still..
No one's seen your hats,

I think you're asking way to much. Lets see your work first then you can raise the price as you get along. this is just greedy starting out at 250.

how can you say 'no offense' but then call LLS greedy? of course he'll take offense, as do i. do you know what the start up costs are for a hat company dutch? do you know how much of a beating bending oak took for starting his hat business with that low of a price? if you are starting from scratch and don't want to put down your own money into getting the tools acquired, then the seed money has got to come from your pre-order.....once you get everything going, the rest is gravy....and after a couple of years of searching for the right block, i think he's entitled to it. you don't have to buy a hat, which i don't think you will anyways. you just want to start something. you, nor i, have no right to judge how much LLS's time is worth to produce a hat. you just be happy with your HJ and call it a day......and when you are done with it, send it over my way so i can throw it on the street and redirect traffic with it..........no offense of course

jasonalun · Post by **jasonalun** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:05 pm

Well, LLS, you just answered a question I asked in the letter I just sent you (with my hat payment). I wondered, with Fedora talking about you making a "shellac-less" rabbit hat, if it would be TOO floppy. I want mine floppy, but not so floppy that, as you pointed out with the Optimo, the bash "changes when the wind blows." With how you've described it, that's just what I'm looking for in my hat, so disregard my question in my letter!

Dutch_jones · Post by **Dutch_jones** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:13 pm

Sorry my original post was a bit different i edited something out and it wasn't right anymore.

I just think its a really weird thing as a new comer EVEN IF the costs are high, in a place like this with multiple vendors, to ask such a hefty price.

most rabbit felt hats range from 100-150 bucks and most people who own them have handled a few of them, to be new and ask almost twice as much.
GOOD luck.

BTW thanks for the seinfeld reference that is a great episode

.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:17 pm

David, It looks like you have a name already.

The Hat Nazi.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:48 pm

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Hey Pitfall,
Great question. I own an Optimo and I loved the way it was floppy soft. This was in part due to the thickness (body weight) of the felt they use. You really had to check your hat because it was so soft the bashes would change if the wind blew. The felt I am using is a little thicker and holds itself a little better. I own several Akubra's. Too rigid in my book for what I want. It took some "breaking in" to get it to the floppy state, but the denseness of the felt still makes them a little too rigid for my taste. Has that been your experience? To the point, the felt should fall between Optimo and Akubra. I never owned one of Fedora's rabbit from back in the day, but I suspect that my felt will fall in his catagory.
I will be adding a water treatment to the felt. It is wonderful stuff! Should make the hat good and water resistant. Fedora walked me through the water drip test he had that showed how water resistant each felt type was. Very enlightening.

It's been a few years but I don't believe my AB rabbit was as stiff as my Akubra when I first got it. To me the felt Fedora was using seemed to be the right blend of both worlds......Of course the hat has softened up over the years thanks to wearing it outside in the summer sun a lot.

If you can match the quality of my AB rabbit then you'll make myself and a lot of other Indy fans very happy.

laughograms · Post by **laughograms** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:11 pm

Dutch_jones wrote:No offense but whoa!!! . . . this is just greedy starting out at 250.

So wait. "No offense, but you're greedy."

How is this not the same as "If it's not a personal question, are you a virgin?"

Ohio Jones · Post by **Ohio Jones** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 7:40 pm

Hey LLS,

I would gladly pay that for your hat. I don't think it is unreasonable at all. I do have to say pulling the trigger on a $400 pair of boots would be really really tough!

I can not wait to see what comes off your blocks.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:26 pm

$250 only seems like a lot because we have great hatters like John and Steve who make very little on the hats they make. They are basically givimg their hats away. Surveyor is charging a fair amount. Judging by what we have seen from his block, I'd say he will have the most SA Raiders hat. I, for one can't wait to see these hats. Hat Nazi, block away and charge what you want.

Dutch, how much did you pay for the HJ you love so much?

Dave

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:08 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:$250 only seems like a lot because we have great hatters like John and Steve who make very little on the hats they make. They are basically givimg their hats away. Surveyor is charging a fair amount. Judging by what we have seen from his block, I'd say he will have the most SA Raiders hat. I, for one can't wait to see these hats. Hat Nazi, block away and charge what you want.

Dutch, how much did you pay for the HJ you love so much?

Dave

also bear in mind that replicating the block is not as easy as normal run of the mill hat blocks....your paying for more craftsmanship as well. i think it's a steal if you ask me....i couldn't even begin to charge that for mine....which is why i'll probably never have a hat shop.

do what you do LLS....$250 for an SA raiders hat is a drop in the bucket compared to people buying 1000 hats and find out they just "don't hunt" ;-)

{btw dr. ulloa - I'VE got the most SA raiders hat....she's on the block right now

}

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:35 pm

Howdy,

LLS, what a classy, tension-diffusing way to handle the unfortunately worded post by Dutch. Speaks volumes about you.

Dutch, if the hat is overpriced, the market will make the necessary corrections. From the reactions I've seen, IMHO, the initial price seems about right.

Having said that, people right now are paying for 1) the pedigree, 2) the prospect of finally having THE most SA Raiders hat ever available. We'll know a great deal more when the first LLS hat pics and owners comment hit the boards.

RaiderZee

Indiana Kev · Post by **Indiana Kev** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:39 am

I'm really looking forward to seeing the first pics of these hats! If your hats are similar to the rabbit felt Steve used then those will be some great hats. I love my rabbit ab!

LLS do you plan to offer other color options?

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:33 am

G, I didn't bother mentioning the fact that these hats will be made by hand using tricks and methods that Steve has been using on his ABs. I initially thought that the price was a bit high, then I started using my brain. For staryers, we have been spoiled by the other custom hatters on this forum. They should be canonized. How much does Optimo charge for a rabbit hat? Last I heard they were doible what LLS is charging and they aren't full custom. SAB is charging $400 for their HJ Poet. That is theft. But, if some want to to be stolen from by HJ, that's their perogative.

Dave

p.s. G, that's a matter of opinion. ;-)

jkdbuck76 · Post by **jkdbuck76** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:37 am

Local Land Surveyor wrote:As Arnold would say " No Problemo".
Oh and Thanks Mod's.

Or, "Get dee templittz to da choppa!"

Local Land Surveyor · Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:32 am

Remember this scene:

Matrix "Sully, remember when I said I'd sale you a hat first."
Sully "Yeh, yeh, Matrix. That's what you said."
Matrix "I lied."
Sully "yaaahhhhhhh......." Thump..splash....

Hat stuff coming along. I am working with my liner supplier. Passing ideas by them.
A word about suppliers. These folks have been great to work with. I am enjoying talking with folks that have been in this industry for generations. Good old American backbone. Salt of the earth types.

LLS

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:33 am

Well, to balance the scales, the well established custom hatter, Peters Brothers Hats, sells their custom rabbit Indy fedoras for $205, plus shipping.

Considering LLS is just getting into the game, officially, I believe he's right in the ballpark with his projected price at the moment.

Regards! Michaelson

jacksdad · Post by **jacksdad** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:20 am

I agree, when you have a service that your good at, or your trained to do, you can charge what you feel your worth. I was an electrician till I hurt my wrist and I was always fair with my prices. you just don't give away your skills or take advantage of others to make money either. LLS is pricing a fair price and what he feels his time is worth for now.Craftmanship is an art and a gift.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:33 am

Agreed.

Back to top....LLS, are you at liberty to reveal who you're getting your felt from?

Regards! Michaelson

Local Land Surveyor · Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:50 am

Back to top....LLS, are you at liberty to reveal who you're getting your felt from?

Not at this point and time. I have worked alot with beaver felt and some with rabbit. I'll be "cuttin' my eye teeth" on working with this felt, so I need to see if it meets my very stringent Land Surveyor standards. ;-)

'Now where does Daddy keep his rabbit boxes?.....' surveyor wanders off...

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:56 am

jkdbuck76 · Post by **jkdbuck76** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:19 pm

Indiana G wrote: how can you say 'no offense' but then call LLS greedy? of course he'll take offense, as do i. do you know what the start up costs are for a hat company dutch? do you know how much of a beating bending oak took for starting his hat business with that low of a price? if you are starting from scratch and don't want to put down your own money into getting the tools acquired, then the seed money has got to come from your pre-order.....once you get everything going, the rest is gravy....and after a couple of years of searching for the right block, i think he's entitled to it. you don't have to buy a hat, which i don't think you will anyways. you just want to start something. you, nor i, have no right to judge how much LLS's time is worth to produce a hat. you just be happy with your HJ and call it a day......and when you are done with it, send it over my way so i can throw it on the street and redirect traffic with it..........no offense of course

...and I'm sure traveling to and spending time at Fedora's workshop and not at home doing his job is free, too. $250.00 ain't bad if you want a rabbit hat that has the Raiders look.

I'm not insinuating that Fedora is charging money to LLS. I'm saying that time away from home not working is costly!

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:33 pm

Will the hat be pure rabbit, or is there a little beaver thrown in?

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:26 pm

I'm fairly certain it's going to be 100% rabbit......

Ohio Jones · Post by **Ohio Jones** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:50 pm

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Remember this scene:

Matrix "Sully, remember when I said I'd sale you a hat first."
Sully "Yeh, yeh, Matrix. That's what you said."
Matrix "I lied."
Sully "yaaahhhhhhh......." Thump..splash....

Hat stuff coming along. I am working with my liner supplier. Passing ideas by them.
A word about suppliers. These folks have been great to work with. I am enjoying talking with folks that have been in this industry for generations. Good old American backbone. Salt of the earth types.

LLS

Hit it with some steam Bennet!!

The Aviator · Post by **The Aviator** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:24 pm

I love commando...pure nonsensical Schwarzenegger...just the way I like him

cheers

Local Land Surveyor · Post by **Local Land Surveyor** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:29 pm

Indiana Kev, I do plan to eventually move to other colors, just not in the beginning.

bigrex, The hat body will be pure rabbit.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:46 pm

I think this begs the question...what's gonna be the name for your new company? -M

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:43 pm

Mulceber wrote:I think this begs the question...what's gonna be the name for your new company? -M

how'z about "i'll be back bennett-bilt" hat company???

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:52 pm

My favorite part of Commando is during the scene outside the house, at the very end. The same guard dies about three or four times. You gotta love that movie. I always describe it as the best worst movie you will ever see. Anyone else remember Bill Paxton in that film? Five points to the first guy who remembers who he was.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:13 am

DR Ulloa wrote:My favorite part of Commando is during the scene outside the house, at the very end. The same guard dies about three or four times. You gotta love that movie. I always describe it as the best worst movie you will ever see. Anyone else remember Bill Paxton in that film? Five points to the first guy who remembers who he was.

Dave

He called the 2 of them over the radio when they were flying to the island.

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:14 am

Official character name (according on IMDB) is "Intercept Officer".

RZ

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:22 am

Oak gets three points for being first and Zee gets two points for giving the character name...I have to distribute the five. I hope no one minds sharing. ;-)

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:24 am

What other Arnold movie was he in?

How about Hat Nazi hat company.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:38 am

Terminator and True Lies as a punk rocker and used car salesman, respectively. ;-)

I love Schwarzenegger films...they'r a not so guilty pleasure of mine.

Dave

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:26 am

How about Hat Nazi hat company.

I dunno, I get the feeling that another group has already taken the name "nazi..." -M

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:13 am

Mulceber wrote:
How about Hat Nazi hat company.
I dunno, I get the feeling that another group has already taken the name "nazi..." -M

It was a joke. I await to see what the name will be myself.

RaiderZee · Post by **RaiderZee** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:30 am

I dunno, "Hat Nazi Fedoras" has a good ring to it. Slogan: "They're rabbit, and they're spectacular!"

RZ
Gotta lay off the Seinfeld reruns . . .