Club Obi Wan

Hi everyone, I recently received my Camptown Legend 57. Thisis an absolutely gorgeous hat. The felt is soft and beautiful and it took a bash with little effort. Best hat I have ever owned.

The catch? I can't wear it. After months and months of waiting the hat arrived, sadly, too big for me. I have tried wearing it all weekend long to try and get used to it, but it's of no use it's just not the right size.

I am really really bummed out because I knew this was going to be the case from when I ordered the hat. I sent Ken my measurements and he asked me to check them again, apparently he had never heard of such a small head on an adult. My head measures 21 1/2". Sure it's small, but I'm no circus freak for crying out loud. So when he told me my hat was a size 7 back in May when I ordered I immediately told him it was going to be too big. Size 7 is technically a medium, it's a small medium but a medium none the less, and I needed a small. I'm no dummy and have done research into sizing hats for each size there are 3 sub sizes. For example for small there is small small, medium small and large small. The same goes for the other sizes. I fall smack dab in between medium small and large small.

So after a couple of conversations with Ken, he assuring me that foam tape would solve all my fitting issues. I wasn't convinced because I was more concerned that the overall proportions would be off. So I had gotten to the point where I was ready to cancel my order and shop somewhere where I could get a properly fitting hat when I get word from Ken a few more people had ordered small hats in my size as well and that he was going to have new blocks made that would be my size. Then he got busy and it became increasingly difficult to communicate with Ken. For a long time I tried to get clarification both privately and publicly in this board about my hat and the size issue. And he even replied on line here that Yes, he did have the smaller size hats made. So you can imagine my surprise when my hat was still being reported to me as being a SIZE 7, the same size I had been saying was the wrong one from the beginning.

I am completely disappointed and heart broken, I was extremely clear in all of my communication with him and could never get a straight answer out of him. I don't want to sell this hat because I waited so long for it and went through a lot of trouble to get it. I'll never get another hat of this quality for the price. It was made on the adventurebilt blocks and I felt I was getting a bit of Indy history even vicariously as it isn't a full on AB, but dang it is a great hat....that I can't wear.

I trimmed a quarter inch off the brim and it has helped the overall look of the hat itself. Huge difference, but it is still proportionally too big for me tiny mellon.

Is it possible to have the hat reblocked a size down? What are the wait times for a re-block at AB? I know BendingOak has a beautiful block as well, I have no hesitation sending it to him for a reblock either, it's just that this was made on an AB block and would be nice to see what AB options I have first. If it's going to be another 9 month wait to get an AB reblock I'll start to see what other options are available.

I am trying to look on the bright side here but I am really bummed out right now and any help would be grand. That's all for listening.

Why don't you try flipping out the sweat band and wetting it then put it back in place and put the hat over a lamp for awhile, supervised of course. I have heard that you can shrink a hat a whole size with this method...Ask Michaelson, I believe he's used this method with good success before.

Well if I thought that would solve the problem I would certainly try that, bit the issue I feel is the over all proportions of the hat itself needs to be taken down a notch, here...

from front to back it fits pretty well, and I'm using foam tape,


However it sticks WAY out on the sides...I can stick my finger all the way to the third knuckle in thah gap by my temple with no effort at all.


This is where the trouble comes in and it looks off. But I think the hat itself, not on my head, looks better after I trimmed the brim. It really needed that.

I hate to say it, but you shouldn't have trimmed it. You paid for a product and didn't get what you paid for...so you should have returned it, unaltered. I would hope that you would have been put back at the front of the list and received a replacement hat in a reasonable turnaround time given your previous wait. There's certainly no sense in hounding some of the artisans around here, but after receiving a product that wasn't what you paid for, then all bets are off...daily e-mails, PMs, and phone calls...and if that hasn't worked sufficiently in a week or two...then comes the public call-out...and then a claim to reverse the charges, if you paid with a credit card. However, in your haste, you permanently altered it, so you're out of luck. Given the pics, the hat is indeed too large, and the only thing that will probably work is getting the entire hat wet and hoping it shrinks relatively evenly. Unfortunately, it's likely going to taper...after which point you'll have to pay for a re-block and wait even longer. Definitely an unfortunate lesson to learn.

Thanks for you reply, but in all honesty, there is nothing Ken can do, and I really don't want to deal with that. I was crystal clear with him in what I wanted and he just ignored my concerns. He has enough @#$% on his plate, he can't afford to refund my money as there are several people still waiting on refunds for cancelations they made a while back. So I am being pro-active here. I can't just sit on my haunches and do nothing. The brim was too big for the size of the hat as it stands. It was wider than the dimensions of Harrisons' own hat and is several sizes smaller, I did the hat a service. So for permanently altering it, it needed it to begin with. It helped the hat. Ken is really swamped. He's a good guy and I like him, but I really don't want to deal with him as a seller any more, or I should say, he doesn't need the extra headaches from me. I had been very clear with my communications and he was very difficult to get any answers out of, but that is most likely because he has a million things on his mind right now. I will deal with him as a friend, but not as a seller.

Hence why I am seeking to try and get this dealt with through someone else, taking responsibility myself for what needs to be done. So you see I was asking about re-blocks from the very beginning of this thread, I am seeking the answers I need to get this hat to fit me, if it is re-blocked by AB or Penman I am really not too worried, I just wanted to know what my options were, and possible wait times. I had no intention of troubling Ken with this, so thanks for your input Jedidentist, but I think you missed the point of my post and questions. Refunds from Ken at this point ARE NOT an optioin for me and never have been. He can't afford it and I want this hat.

Not being one of the 'hat people' I'm not 100% sure but can't a hat be reblocked smaller? Wouldn't that be a solution... I suspect it's almost the same as completely remaking a hat so might not be worth it... but it's worth a suggestion.

Kt Templar wrote:Not being one of the 'hat people' I'm not 100% sure but can't a hat be reblocked smaller? Wouldn't that be a solution... I suspect it's almost the same as completely remaking a hat so might not be worth it... but it's worth a suggestion.

you can make big hats smaller. you can make small hats bigger (if you sacrifice the brim). a reblock of this nature would mean a complete tear down and rebuild of the hat. i'm assuming oak and steve have pretty long lead times and i thought steve didn't do reblocks on non-AB's. you can try peter bros, JPD, baron (i wouldn't), optimo (i wouldn't). those are the ones that i know who could provide a good raidersish block shape.

Here's a method I know works to size down a hat. If you have a hat that fits you right, take a leather belt and put it around the outside of the crown, down against the brim until its tight. Make a new hole if you have to in the belt to put the buckle through. After taking the ribbon, liner and sweatband out of your non fitting hat, soak the hat in cold water. slide your belt around the outside of the crown and cinch it down tight until it can be buckled where you had it on the fitting hat. leave it sit for a few days until completely dry. The felt will compact to the size you need it to. Put your ribbon, etc back together, and 'voila! -fitting hat.
I've seen this done successfully on fur felts.

That is what I am trying to find out.

Is it possible to re-block a hat smaller?

If it is possible I would like to get it done. If it is AB or Penman that does it I'll be happiest, and I am willing to pay for the service too, because it is going to cost me to buy a new hat, even if I get a FedIV. I have a beautiful piece of felt here already, so why not try and preserve this first. If all else fails and nothing can be done to save this, then I'll most likely have to sell it and invest in something new. I understand this. I am just trying to discuss my options and the logistics with the knowledgeable folks here at COW. I want this to be a positive thing for everyone.

Indiana G wrote:you can make big hats smaller. a reblock of this nature would mean a complete tear down and rebuild of the hat. i'm assuming oak and steve have pretty long lead times and i thought steve didn't do reblocks on non-AB's.

Well this is a 57 made on the AB block, has Adventuebilt right on the crest in the liner, so I was kinda hoping it might count as an AB.

Thanks for confirming it can be done, this is the info I really needed. I am going to contact Penman and find out the lead times are like.

Kokopelli wrote:Here's a method I know works to size down a hat. If you have a hat that fits you right, take a leather belt and put it around the outside of the crown, down against the brim until its tight. Make a new hole if you have to in the belt to put the buckle through. After taking the ribbon, liner and sweatband out of your non fitting hat, soak the hat in cold water. slide your belt around the outside of the crown and cinch it down tight until it can be buckled where you had it on the fitting hat. leave it sit for a few days until completely dry. The felt will compact to the size you need it to. Put your ribbon, etc back together, and 'voila! -fitting hat.
I've seen this done successfully on fur felts.

That's kinda neat. But how does it work? Does it just shrink up at the base of the hat where the belt is or does it give an even shrinking all over the crown?

Indiana Venkman wrote:

Indiana G wrote:you can make big hats smaller. a reblock of this nature would mean a complete tear down and rebuild of the hat. i'm assuming oak and steve have pretty long lead times and i thought steve didn't do reblocks on non-AB's.

Well this is a 57 made on the AB block, has Adventuebilt right on the crest in the liner, so I was kinda hoping it might count as an AB.

Thanks for confirming it can be done, this is the info I really needed. I am going to contact Penman and find out the lead times are like.

the amount of money bendingoak will charge you is much cheaper then shelling out another couple hundred bucks on another brand new beaver blend.

Having the hat resized on't cost you very much. You already have all the materials. That is what most of your order money goes into. I think Oak charges $40 for a reblock. Send it his way and ask him to resize the thing for you. The only real alterations he would need to do is shorten the sweat band. Steve would be ideal becuase its coming off his old Raiders block, but its not an AB, its a Camptown and Steve is only reblocking ABs now. You can ask. It won't hurt, but this is not an AB. I wouldn't bother with any of those shrinking methods, the hat looks rediculously out of proprtion on you. Send it off for a reblock and resizing.

Dave

Two words: Cairo Bazaar. Lots of size sevens would LOVE that hat. Take the profit, plus the money you were going to spend on a reblock, and buy a Penman, JPD, etc.

Just another option

RZ

But thats not what he wants to do, Zee. I don't think he should do that either. He wants to keep the hat. I agree that it has great felt. THe photos of Daniel Jones' Legend look absolutely beautiful. I stand by what I said and what others have said, have it resized. You can size down, but not up, so you are good.

Dave

Sounds like a case of the vendor failing to listen to the customer. That's my head size exactly, 21.5". True it is on the small side, but I'm not a circus freak either. I'm sure Ken was looking out for your best interest, but it's too bad he didn't have faith that you knew how to use a tape measure or he forgot to make the changes on your order. If I were you, I would attempt to sell the hat someplace like that favorite auction website and use the money toward a better fitting fedora, but that's just me.

Hey Venkman!

Well, to be honest, I had a similar problem with my Filedmaster at first. It fit ok front to back (still had to stuff it a bit), but the sides had a huge gap. A regular oval trying to fit over a long oval mellon. I wore it daily & fiddled with it continually to make it uniquely mine. In the end I managed a perfect fit with out any stuffing. Just natural shrinkage.

Now, with my grey Metropolitan I had the same problem, ok fit front to back but gaps on the sides. That one looks good on me only because I have a squarish face, but it does still fit loosely. I didn't wear it enough (mainly because the brown fit more of my wardrobe) to shrink it to my mellon. So I still have to stuff it & that has buckled the wire in the sweatband. My bad.

My thought has been recently is to send the Metropolitan off to Penman to have it reblocked and a new snugger ribbon & bow put on it that would be more Raideresque for me. This way I can have John shrink it down to my long oval size to get rid of the gaps on the side and maybe add a little more height to the crown. Also, I was thinking of having him replace the black sweatband with a brown as it would look more period correct that way, being that all of my vintage grey's have brown sweatbands.

Personally, I would strongly suggest that you try the reblocking & resizing route before giving up on the hat. Plus, it would give John some experience with the 50/50 blend of felt that this lid is and he can give us his feedback on what it is like to reblock. Couldn't hurt talking with him to find out.

Anyway, the choice is purely up to you Venkman. You do what you think will be best for you.

Cheers!

Dan

Thank you everyone for all of your fantastic advice and wisdom. I have had contact with Oak and I think I am going to go the re-block route. This might sound silly or superstitious to some but I feel that this is my hat and it just needs a little more loving to get it to fit me. Then it'll be my Camptown/AB/Penman. A tri-fecta of fedora supremacy. Almost the perfect lid. Okay, that last bit was for drama, but kinda funny.

Well, the truth of the matter, if will mean a WHOLE lot more to you when Oak gets done with it, considering what all it's taken to get this in your hands. I think you may have the ultimate hat when it's all said and done!

Looking forward to seeing the final results!

Double check with Oak to make sure of your head shape. In all this discussion, it almost sounds like you're a long oval head shape with a round oval hat. I experience the same effect when I don't get a hat that's not blocked for long oval. Something to talk over with Oak as you proceed.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Hey Venkman,

My Metro '45 had the same problem. It fit well in the front and back but there were gaps on the sides. I decided just to wear to see if it would conform to my head shape. I also used a hat stretcher to change the shape a little. I didn't actually stretch the hat, I just set the stretcher inside and left it in for a while. This, along with wearing it, changed the shape and got rid of the gaps. Eventually I'll get around to posting pics

Please do HardBop, that would be great to see. Post here if you like.

Yeah, would love to see some pics of how it turned out.

Venkman, I think this is the wisest choice. Basically you're right, it is your hat and just because it doesn't fit right out of the box doesn't mean it isn't right for you. If you get an ill fitting suit in your size you take it to a taylor to get it fitted correctly, you don't dump it if you like the looks of it.
Also, I would suggest replacing the ribbon as they sun fade quickly (in a year) with regular use. That one is an easy fix that you can do at home.

Anyway, I contacted John as well today & I think I will send out my Metro here soon for a reblock too. This isn't to say that these are bad hats. Far from it. But they are a factory made hat that is basically a one shape fits most, unlike the customs from AB, JPD & Penman. But they are a good sturdy hat that can pull double duty as an adventure hat & a dress hat, you just have to be willing to play with it and make it yours. Over time this happens. So, I think with a reblock you will be very happy with what you have and it will be a daily wear hat. I know mine is most of the time, other times I'm wearing a flat cap from Hat People.

Anyway, good luck with the hat. I suppose we shall post the results here in a few months & see what manifests.

Cheers!

Dan

Go for it Venk! My suggested option of selling isn't really an option if you're emotionally invested in the hat. Sounds like you're making the right choice for you. Can't go wrong in Oak's hands.

RaiderZee

Venkman,

So, have you sent your hat off to Oak? Hope all goes well with the process.

A "Camptown Penman Legend". Has a nice ring to it. ;-)

Cheers!

Dan

I had a really good talk with Oak yesterday. I'll be sending the hat off on Saturday.

I agree, the sound of "Camptown Penman Legend" does indeed have a nice ring to it.

I look forward to seeing what he does with your Metropolitan as well. I am assuming you've sent that off to him.

Not as of yet. I will probably be sending it out on Friday.
The "Camptown Penman Metro" seems to work for mine.
In my talk with John, he seems to fee that it may be a simple matter of replacing the sweatband to draw it down, but he will know better once he has it in had and can properly assess what will need to be done. Me, I'm of the thought that it needs to be put on a block and drawn down a shade for a proper fit, but we shall see. He is the hat maker after all & I am just a hat wearer. ;-)

Cheers!

Dan

Indiana Venkman wrote:Please do HardBop, that would be great to see. Post here if you like.

Here's my Metro '45. It still needs work, but I'm happy with it so far. It originally had a CS bash but I've since changed it to a Non Indy look.

hardbop jones , hats look better on people. I like the fact that you went outside and let someone else take the shot. as you sweat in the sweatband it should start to form more to your head.


I will post pics soon of one of my test hats that was blocked on a round oval block. I'm somewhere between reg. oval and nar. oval. The sweatband has adjusted to my shape.

HardBop Jones, that's one sharp looking hat. You wear it well.

I'd just wear it now and let it take on your personality from use. No further need for tweaking, in my opinion.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Hat looks great! Suits you. You wouldn't happen to be a Coltrane fan with a name like Hardbop?

Bemo wrote:Hat looks great! Suits you. You wouldn't happen to be a Coltrane fan with a name like Hardbop?

Thanks. After the long wait, I'm very happy with it. I like Coltrane, but I'm more of a Jazz Messengers fan. I happened to be listening to one of their albums when I was registering and it was the first username I came up with.

HardBop Jones wrote:

Bemo wrote:Hat looks great! Suits you. You wouldn't happen to be a Coltrane fan with a name like Hardbop?

Thanks. After the long wait, I'm very happy with it. I like Coltrane, but I'm more of a Jazz Messengers fan. I happened to be listening to one of their albums when I was registering and it was the first username I came up with.

coltrane is cool, so are the messengers, but Dexter Gordon is king...

back on topic. the hat looks great HardBop.

The lid looks great HardBop, appears to fit your head shape very well. I wouldn't change a thing. I'm sure you'll have many years of wear out of it for sure. Have you worn it with a suit yet?

Cheers!

Dan

Absolutely fantastic looking hat there, Hardbop. Looks great on you, I wouldn't change a thing.

HardBop Jones,

Very nice hat, and the scarf is a nice touch too!

Bump...

Well Venkman, it looks like John has our hats in hand. Should be about three months before they can be worked on though. Oh, well, no worries there. That time will pass quickly and our hats will be beutiful. I sent John pics from about marck of last year for his reference & to post as before images on his site.
I take it you have had a good chat with him on what is needed for your hat? Can't wait to see how yours comes out.

Cheers!

Dan

Hi again,

Sorry I haven't been around much lately, just busy with things in my life in general. Well I finally got my hat in the mail and off to Oak on Wednesday. I dragged my heels a bit, but figured the rush wasn't necessary as he wasn't going to be able to do anything about it for a few months anyway. However on that note, I can't wait to see what he has to say when he actually gets it in his hands.

DanielJones, I think you and I are in good hands here, it seems the man is almost magical and certainly is knowledgeable. The one conversation I had with Oak was great and I look forward to sharing more great conversations with him in the future.

Indiana Venkman wrote:Hi again,

Sorry I haven't been around much lately, just busy with things in my life in general. Well I finally got my hat in the mail and off to Oak on Wednesday. I dragged my heels a bit, but figured the rush wasn't necessary as he wasn't going to be able to do anything about it for a few months anyway. However on that note, I can't wait to see what he has to say when he actually gets it in his hands.

DanielJones, I think you and I are in good hands here, it seems the man is almost magical and certainly is knowledgeable. The one conversation I had with Oak was great and I look forward to sharing more great conversations with him in the future.

Hey Venkman,

Yeah, I'd have to say we are in good hand, well, at least our hats are. John was rather excited that the bodies of the hats are Winchester western 50/50's., took a lot of weight off the idea of reblocking these. He said that I won't even recognize when he is done with it. The waiting is the hardest part, but well worth it. I figure that if I don't think about it and keep busy the time will be here before I know it and will be getting a call to discuss what it to be done. Again, still can't wait to see what he does with our hats.
Let us know what he thinks will need to be done with your as well. Will it just be a sweatband & ribbon replacement or a full reblock?

Cheers!

Dan

I somehow missed the updated photos on this thread. Hardbob, that's a classy looking hat! And agree, the scarf does something for the look. Very nice!

Randy

Hey Venkman!

Have you discussed with John on what is planned to do with your hat yet?

Cheers!

Dan

I did have a good talk with Oak about my hat. He basically told me that in the end I will have a wearable hat, but most likely not and Indiana Jones hat. He's going to have to remove too much of the brim or something to that effect. Apparently even the little bit I trimmed off the brim was enough to make it difficult for him to save as an Indy hat. I didn't want to post about it because I was growing more and more disappointed with that fact. I fully trust Oaks' ability to get me a great hat, but I'm not a big hat person, I really wanted an Indy hat. I'm am sure it will be gorgeous, and I will certainly wear it but sadly it looks like I am going to have to buy yet another hat to have my Raiders lid, the only one I really really want. I completely appreciate what Oak is going to do for me, understand that.

I know I will have a great hat, something along the line of his Marlow is what it will most likely be. Guess that is the price for my haste in trimming the brim. I accept responsibility for that. Who knows I may just fall in love with what he does to the lid and it may even become my favorite hat. But, man, if this isn't the most frustrating purchase of my life, I don't know what is. A year's turn around and still no raiders lid for me.

Sorry to hear that this is such a bummer purchase for you. I suppose theses things do happen though, you know, best laid plans & all. Well I do hope the best for you on the reblock & you end up with a hat that you truly love. I know Oak will treat you right. How far did you trim the brim down? I know I did a trim on my Metropolitan and Oak said that he was going to leave the brim alone and just soak the crown & work with that. Hopefully I'll either have a good Raiders or Crystal Skull travel hat when done. Again, best wishes Venkman, I can't wait to see what he manages to do with yours. No matter what, it's going to look fantastic.

Cheers!

Dan

I know I am in good hands, and I know I will have a great hat. I didn't take much off the brim at all, but Oak said that on a brim an eighth of an inch may as well be a mile. I didn't want to challenge him because I know he knows better than me. He explained his trimming process and I didn't leave him much wiggle room. I was proud of my trimming work until I talked to him, then I felt like a clumsy child.

However, talking with him is great and we always chat for a long time, I enjoy my conversations with him. I feel that is important to mention. I have full confidence in him and his abilities and I know it will be a beautiful and lovingly made hat.

Most of my frustration stems from the fact that I HAVE to buy another hat just to get the hat I really wanted, a Raiders. But I am holding off on that until I get my hat back from Oak.

I've heard of people trimming the brim but why would any of us do that when we're not hatters? Isn't that why we leave it to the experts to do?

I make no apologies for the trim I did, and I would do it again in a heart beat if I felt it necessary. I'm a hands on kind of person, you don't learn if you don't try anything. This is what I don't appreciate it's the feeling of being scolded for what I did.

Indiana Venkman wrote:I make no apologies for the trim I did, and I would do it again in a heart beat if I felt it necessary. I'm a hands on kind of person, you don't learn if you don't try anything. This is what I don't appreciate it's the feeling of being scolded for what I did.

Just remember, it's your hat. you can do whatever you see fit to it! if the proportions aren't right, why not try to fix it yourself. you'll never know if you can do it until you try.

When my camptown arrived i trimmed a quarter inch off the brim all the way around. the whole hat was tapered and a bit big on me so i ended up reblocking it from a 60 to closer to a 58. after all that, i had to trim the brim even more to get it to the 2 3/4 and 2 1/2 inch marks! hold out hope my friend. oak will work it out, it'll look grand. plus i think with your face shape a smaller brim will look good.

Its not being scolded. I'm not a hands-on person and feel I would screw something up and especially on something not too cheap, I would rather have someone who does know what they're doing. That's just my own opinion. Like with cars, I know I'm not a mechanic so I'm not going to bother trying to fix something and have it end up worse. I feel with some things should be just left up to the experts. And to trim a brim, I have no idea where to start or how to do it. Its like how some people throw their brand-new jackets into the shower or washer to shrink it or distress it; you're playing with fire as you don't know what the result will be.

You're in good hands with John. I'm sure he'll do the best he can with it. Good luck!

Sorry if I got the wrong impression from your post. I'll be the first to admit I may have misinterpreted you. Thanks for the votes of confidence from everyone about Oak. I know I'll have a great hat that will look right for me. I'm fretting over nothing. Oak genuinely cares about his work and will do nothing but his best. It's why I hadn't posted before I didn't want to seem like I was complaining. It's going to be beautiful, and WalkingEye, you are completely right, the smaller brim will most likely fit my face shape better.

Yeah, with your slimmer build I'd be willing to bet that the smaller brim will be in proportion with your face as well. You may just be surprised and get the Indy hat that you were hoping for after all. Again, can't wait to see what John manages to do with it. Best wishes there my friend.

Cheers!

Dan

Well, I got my Camptown back from BendingOak. I am one happy customer. Perfect fit. Sure it's no longer an Indy hat, but it is one I can at least wear, and with pride. Seeing this hat on my head has made me even more hungry for one of his Beaver Raiders lids. Oak is a man who knows his stuff. Thank you, sir, for helping me out.

With out further adieu I proudly present the "Penman/Camptown - Rorschach/Legend"




Better pictures to come.