Club Obi Wan

There are some nuanced differences, and I like the profile of this new block better. Ok, this hat here is off the new block, just came off yesterday. I put it on a crank out hat stretcher to suspend it, since this is not my hat and not my size, and I would not put on a customers hat anyways. PLus, who wants to see an old man???

I made this hat almost 1/4(3/16ths) an inch taller than I normally do, so substract 1/4 inch in visualization. I do make em like you specify, but that is the only difference between what I would normally send out.









And one, while blurry, shows the color.



Now, if you were to compare the christy to this block, there are few things that are alike. Totally different blockshapes. Trust me. And it goes to show that various blockshapes can pull off a good Raiders fedora. Which one matches the film?? Good question, and not one I can answer, in good faith. But, I like what I see with this new block, especially the back and side shots. The correct arc has been hard to nail, but we are getting there!

Here is my old arc, from the old block.


I can certainly see the improvement.

Also, I did not push the side crease back very far, and if I did, the hat would be a bit more square, as is the case with t his blockshape. Fedora

Nice...I like seeing what mine will eventually look like! Cool.

Derek

Compare these two.





Now granted, the angle is different, but you can see how close we are getting. Fedora

Wonderful new block indeed, looks superb! In my eyes this might be the closest thing we will get to the raiders hat. Nice work!

I see what you mean about the arc. The hat profile looks great!

Yup, I think it looks better. You have to hand it to LLS. The guy really knows what he is talking about.

Dave

kind of glad my hat has taken so long since it will come off the new improved block..

absolutely beautiful!

thats really great work
nice job indeed

Very impressive. I'm happy my hat will have the new block. Looks great!!!

very nice! great improvement in the back........i recall LLS showing the back of his raven bar hat in one of his first posts here. i see that you are following the same path......i think it looks terrific steve!

{psssssssst....ohio, grab the bolt cutters and meet me in columbus mississippi........wear black..........we've got some industrial espionage to do }

Beautiful overall shape. Just when I think it couldn't get any better, you reach another level

Steve,

Looks great. I am not expert by any means on these hats....but I know I like what I see, and I am sure there is a lot I dont see that all you guys do.

Its beautiful

(Hey G, I got the bolt cutters...I will see you down there)

That looks
A-
MAZING!

SUPER!!!! I am so glad you posted this, Fedora. Amazing how many assumptions on this hat was proven completely wrong after reverse engineering this block style. You folks getting this block style are going to be very pleased!
This block style has sooo many little facets about it that not having one of them leaves the crown wanting.
Your were right, Fedora. A former cabinet maker can replicate from an original. Good work!

LLS

Forget pics of the hat... we've all seen those!
Show me details of the BLOCK!!!

Dalexs wrote:Forget pics of the hat... we've all seen those!
Show me details of the BLOCK!!!

include measurements to 1/16" tolerance please.......

Looks great Steve!

It's beautiful!! *face explodes*

Wouldn't mind my Henry reblocked like that!

Gorgeous hat. Simply beautiful.

you reach another level

Thanks, but this is LLS's work here! He was not afraid to work with the back of the hat, as well as a bit elsewhere. So, this is not something I can lay claim to!!! LLS is the man. I mean, I knew what he did was there was on the two vintage HJs, but I was afraid to venture there, because of the time element. If I screwed up a block, it would take away from hatmaking to get it back to like it was. He jumped right in, grabbed the sander, threw caution to the wind and went at it with great fervor. He is my kind of guy!!! And this was not something he just did overnight. Took a long, long time of trial and error, and screen caps. He kept me posted on his work, and it just got better and better.

So, when he wanted to go into blockmaking, I advised him to use his labor intensive quest by offering his own hat. I suggested rabbit, with no stiffener, as there is a vacuum there to fill and a good place to hang his hat. I was about to come out with a rabbit myself, since it is accurate fur to the other 3 films, and then saw this would be a great place for him to start. So we get all the bases covered. A handmade rabbit hat with a really good Raider's block.

He is coming over to my shop the end of this month to learn to make em' like I do, although he already has a handle on hatmaking having to reblock, and reblock and reblock. But, hopefully I will add to his knowledge and skill and teach him all of the old tricks. And since he will be using no shellac rabbit felt, but a more substantial felt than the HJ and Christy, his rabbit hats will be able to stand numerous reblocks, and can become an old friend. But still be soft and floppy. I can't wait to see some of this no shellac rabbit. I have extremely high hopes for it. I think it will work out great, but still be a real world hat, like the AKubras are. Just not as stiff since no shellac will be used when the bodies are made. I am actually excited for him, and will see if I can buy one of those bodies from him so I can make myself one. Wait, no, I think I will just be his first customer!

I will also teach him how to make a good Raiders bow, which really sets off the hat. LLS is just like me, regarding the Raider fedora. Two peas in a pod, and the perfect guy for me to share with, what I have learned. Any guy who spends a year or so, sanding and blocking to see what was yielded, is my kind of guy. I guess this is because that is the way that I started!!!

Now, if we can just both fit inside my very small shop. And to be able to talk Indy while we work! It just don't get any better than that! So, no talk radio the 3 days he will be with me. Won't need it, or desire it. So the Bose stays off!

This is the second true Indy fan that I have actually met, and I am looking forward to his visit. I don't get out much. Fedora

include measurements to 1/16" tolerance please.......

Indy G, just copy the two vintage HJs on the Christy thread( I think I put them there). That's what LLS did. Course he actually had that one HJ with him for a bit, before I sold it. But, this is nothing more than a copy of those vintage blocks, and the end result proves to us that this WAS the sort of block used. He had to play with the radius and transition points, as sanding in a shape from a visual means alot of work. He would get the block to where he thought it matched, and then block a hat on it. Then evaluate it from screen caps. If he saw an area that was weak, he would go back to the block and correct it, until after months and months he was satisfied with the hat off of that particular blockshape. The vintage HJ pics are your starting point. If you can nail it the first time you sand, your work is done. But, as some know, you included, sanding to a shape is an art, and you have to be a bit artistic to pull it off. No doubt a real sculpturer could nail it on the first take. But, he is a surveyor, and I an old cabinet maker. But, I feel if we can do it, anyone can, as neither one of us are true artists in the classic sense of the word.

LLS like me, originally just wanted a block to reblock his hats on, when it was needed since he works outside, and wears his hats. Then the bug bit him. That is all it takes, to be bitten. Once the venom is in the blood, you are infected with this. But, a nice infection, if I may say so!

I am so anxious to see a no shellac rabbit body come off of this block. It will move so much better than the denser beaver fur. But, I am sure at some point, LLS will offer this in beaver as well. It's not easy to forget how nice beaver is to work, when making hats. Rabbit requires more work, in the pouncing, and has to stay on the block longer to stabilize the felt, and you gotta iron it alot more, but the end result is a much more stable hat than most rabbit hats. So, I expect his hats to be really great rabbit hats. Perhaps the best out there to date.

I know one thing. If I could get a raw body from the folks that Christy uses, I could turn that felt into a very stable felt, for rabbit. The factory that makes those hats does not even iron them!!!!! And that is one step no hatter can NOT do. The combination of wetting the hat with the hatters sponge, and ironing it on very high heat, many, many times is the secret to stabilizing rabbit felt. In the process, the hat can shrink up in crown height by 1/2 to 1 inch!! So, you would need a 6 inch block, to make a 5 1/2 inch open crown hat. But, the shrinkage, you force, while the body is on the block. You want all of the shrinkage to occur while the hat is on the block, and this makes the hat remember its original block shape. And much less prone to taper later on. That is what is missing with these 100 dollar hats. How did I find this out? From HJ. They told me about the way the hats are made. I was shocked. Needless to say, this is NOT how a hat should be made. LLS will be making them correctly, the way an old time hatter would have made a hat. It seems the hat industry has forgotten key procedures in making a proper hat. All because speed and numbers are the prime directive today. But, you can't force good hats. Its a slow process, and if you skimp, it shows up later on. I never take short cuts. I would rather get the gripes and complaints, than to send out a hat I would not personally want to own. Back when I had that crook for an apprentice, I wasn't feeling so good about what was being shipped, mostly because I was not doing everything in the production of the hat. They looked good, but since I did not do all of the work, I was a bit nervous, the entire time. Now, its just me, and that's the way it will always be. My little enterprise is not condusive to employees. The down side is, you guys have to wait until I can get to your name, to make the hat myself. And I know some have waited for a long, long time. But one day, it won't be that way, but probably never will get instant hats from me. Takes 4 days from start to finish to make one hat, the way I make em. But much of that time is just spent on the block, getting periodic treatments, but essential treatments that HAVE to be done. Then at least 5 hours putting the hat together, with pouncing. I bet they can make a factory hat from start to finish in an hour. Wish I could. Fedora

you know steve......i'm starting to relate to you more and more these days with my calloused index finger and punctured thumb.....and some times torn and burnt knuckles from pushing hat bodies down

i blocked my 3rd beaver hat body last week....and man that was nice to work with......after about a half dozen rabbit bodies. rabbits do take alot more attention when working with them, that's probably why they are a fraction of the cost of beaver hat bodies.

i wish you and LLS the best in this endeavour. myself and ohio jones have also developed a partnership......not to open up a hatshop mind you........but to find THE raiders block. maybe we will sell hats in the future but there are no plans of that just yet. we are looking for THE block and the info that you and LLS have openly shared is like gold to us. thank you so much. since i'm an engineer, i'm drawing up my proposed block design on paper for ohio.......believe me, i'm studying all the pics you've posted and all the screen shots...and bearing in mind my knowledge of how raiders hat should be creased. i have a foggy idea of what i need........hoping ohio can make it crystal clear for me ;-)

ps steve - could i get a hat from you from your new block.........and about 5 lbs of plaster along with it???........just kidding sir.

All I need to know is when LLS is going to start selling his rabbit hats? You had me at the block.

I believe this is the appropriate post for this. Steve has endured my many emails, pics, screen grabs, ratio scales, ruler pictures and video of my every little find over the past three years. From the very first phone call I made to order my first AB to the last email about the block findings, Steve has politely reviewed and listened to what I had to say. He and I talked about the Raiders hat until the COW’s came home. During the first year I ordered 3 browns and 1 gray, each time studying the crown. I would call Steve and ask him about this bash from this scene and that bash from that scene. I entered the realm of 3Thou$, of whom I visited his site many a time and admired for views on the hat. Then, one day in the summer of 2006, I get a package from Steve. It was this vintage HJ. Now folks, I knew how important that hat was to Steve at that time. He had posted pics of it on COW. He was very proud of finding that hat. I was floored that he had sent it to me. With the hat came some very important words from him that I will not repeat here. It sealed my respect for him and created a friendship. The instant I held that hat in my hand, I knew “This is the hat”. I know how that sounds from the outside looking in, but if each of you members, and lurkers, were to hold it in your hands, you would say the same thing. Whiskeyman did. ;-)

So, I sat out on the quest to recreate this block. It stated out as giving details to the block maker. He send me the block. I send it with one of my hats to Steve. Steve put my hat on the block. Set it . Send it back to me. I bash it. “Nope that ain’t it”. Start the process over. After a couple attempts with the block maker, I knew this would take waaayyy too long. So I start refining my block myself. Training my eye for sanding on curved surfaces. Send it with a hat to Steve. He block it. Send it back. I’d say “Nope that ain’t it”. And start all over again. Poor Steve was so busy making hats and here I would come up with yet another change on the block and he would make time to put my hat together. I then just asked him if he would tell me how to reblock a hat, I could do the block research with out having to impede him in hat making. At that point I designated myself as the block guy. I was going to complete this block to the n’th degree (surveyor lingo). So for the last year, In my spare time, I got up to speed on reblocking techniques and block refining. My little shop became my second home in this last year. My wife could complete her own question as time went by. “Honey, where are you going? To the barn. Right.”

Now, let me get one thing straight. I am not reproducing the Raiders of the Lost Ark hat block based on the screen images of the hat. I am reproducing the block style of a Herbert Johnson hat that, when bashed, made the same bash results as the hat from Raiders of the Lost Ark. To do the first way, would be, in essence, making a copy of a copy. I am making a copy from the master. Ladies and gentlemen, trust me when I say, I went through many, and I mean many, theories, styles and suggestions just to prove to myself that they were either right or wrong.

Making hats was never on my mind. I figured that if I had learned to reblock, I would always be able to fix my own hats till the end of my time. I figured whatever I came up with on the block pattern, I would pass that on to Steve and that would be that. Either he would adjust his blocks, or he would laugh hysterically and tell me “You’ve got to be kidding”. Either way, I was going to satisfy my own block itch. (Nope. Goldbond Medicated Powder would not cure it ) When Steve approached me with the revival of the rabbit Raiders, and that he would train me in his technics, I knew in my heart what Steve was bestowing on me. After over three years of knowing Steve, I have grown to realize just how important this was. Let me get this straight, too. If I do not sell one hat, it will not upset me in the least. Getting the opportunity to be an apprentice to Steve’s accumulative knowledge is the most important part of this friendship. Steve and I have never met in person before. Our friendship grew out of this common interest and I am so excited about this endeavor. He and I will have much to talk about. I feel privileged to learn this lost craft that Steve Delk, Marc Kitter, John Penman, and others on this site are doing. At this point, I only hope I can live up to the reputation and standard that they have laid out. In the surveying world, they would be known as the benchmark. All must check in and meet that which they have set. This community expects nothing less.

Now, from now on, I’ll be less mushy. ;-)

Gosh, and I thought it couldn't get any better. Well done!

Guess I'll have to step up my savings for one...A little sooner...

Now, if we can just both fit inside my very small shop. And to be able to talk Indy while we work!

I had a weird dream a couple weeks ago. Peter Botwright moved the entire Wested Leather operation, including the equipment and all of the staff, to Mississippi and opened an Indy shop under one roof with Steve making ABs alongside the jackets. It was cool!

Wow, I'm liking the new block - I'm not sure about the front view, but maybe that's just me being too used to oggling the SoC bash rather than the opening sequence look. Otherwise it looks great. I can tell you're really excited about this, Steve, and just from reading LLS's latest post, I can tell you two will get along great - you have very similar speech patterns! Anyway, I can't wait to see what becomes of this. I made a promise to myself that once I had two Adventurebilts, I was going to stop buying Indy hats. I think I'm going to have to break that promise when LLS starts producing his rabbit hats. They sound absolutely fantastic, and none of them have even been made yet! -M

VERY nice block Steve! Gonna have to get a hat from you at some point....

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Let me get this straight, too. If I do not sell one hat, it will not upset me in the least.

Steve + new block + rabbit = you have sold one already. Just tell me where to send the money.

RaiderZee

Fedora,
I wonder if your quest for THE block will ever be over.
We heard so often in the past that you are as close as one can get, we order your hats, wait for months, get it and soon after that you tell us you got even closer.
I mean, isn't it a bit unfair that somebody who ordered just one or two month after me gets a hat that is much closer to the real deal?

Fedora wrote: I am so anxious to see a no shellac rabbit body come off of this block. It will move so much better than the denser beaver fur. But, I am sure at some point, LLS will offer this in beaver as well. It's not easy to forget how nice beaver is to work, when making hats. Rabbit requires more work, in the pouncing, and has to stay on the block longer to stabilize the felt, and you gotta iron it alot more, but the end result is a much more stable hat than most rabbit hats. So, I expect his hats to be really great rabbit hats. Perhaps the best out there to date.
Fedora

I also remember that you told us beaver is the only felt to make a good hat these days, because rabbit isn't anymore of the quality it was back then.
Now, you go back and advertise rabbit because it's the felt the Raider's were made of and it looks much more as THE hat than beaver.
So, is rabbit better suitable for a Raider's than beaver after all?

And I also remember you told us beaver and rabbit on the same block yield a totally different hat. So, will there be two versions of your new block? One for beaver and one for rabbit?

Cheers
HP

What a beauty! You're right about the arc indeed.

We all benefit from your talents.

Thanks!
B

My that is a beautiful hat. You really are a master craftsman. Got any spare you can chuck my way?

So, is rabbit better suitable for a Raider's than beaver after all?

I believe the answer will be 'no'. He's making them as that's what the original hats were made from. It's not a better material....just SA.

It's like folks wanting lambskin Indy jackets. Lambskin is NOT the best material, but it's what was used in the film(s), so that's why folks still buy it.

Regards! Michaelson

Well, I hope that the hats I have on order with Steve will be the beaver I ordered with this newest block shape, if that is possible.

Fedora,
I wonder if your quest for THE block will ever be over.
We heard so often in the past that you are as close as one can get, we order your hats, wait for months, get it and soon after that you tell us you got even closer.
I mean, isn't it a bit unfair that somebody who ordered just one or two month after me gets a hat that is much closer to the real deal?

You know, probably not. Seriously. But understand, the difference between my very first handmade block, and the one I am using now is actually minimal. I still have the first block, as it was made of bondo, and can't wear out. On my first block, I actually have the back lower than the front, and the radius on the sides is basically unchanged. I tweaked my blocks over time, and in all honesty, I will be tweaking the day that I hang up hatmaking. The tweaks originally were just corrections that I noticed needed to be done. Then once I got ahold of the two vintage HJs, I tweaked again, and again. But only to get my block closer to those blockshapes. I was already there, but taking off 1/16th of an inch isn't much of a tweak, but a tweak it is. I have never had a vast change in shape from my original, years ago. I would even find it hard to tell the difference between a hat I made 5 years ago, and one that I am making today. The tweaks are just that, tweaks, and not changes in the classic sense. I am seeking perfection, as I percieve it. And no doubt, will continue to do so.

I see my fanaticism as beneficial to the Indy gear crowd. I have constantly tried to improve, since what I use is a reverse engineered block. It would have been much easier to just use my first block, without the added work I have put into it. Afterall, that is what most hatters do. Grab something "close enough" and then use it forever. So, I won't apologize for my tweaks. In fact, I am self gratified by them, as I am doing it mostly for myself. I want the most accurate Raiders fedora for me, which is why I got into this to begin with. I did not start out with the intention of producing income, and that is what separates me from some others. I am in this for other reasons. 3M$ is the same way. Although he and I don't agree much on "the fedora" we both are intensely interested in this hat, and in that respect are just alike. Both of us are on quests, and there is alot of enjoyment in this quest.

I also remember that you told us beaver is the only felt to make a good hat these days, because rabbit isn't anymore of the quality it was back then.
Now, you go back and advertise rabbit because it's the felt the Raider's were made of and it looks much more as THE hat than beaver.
So, is rabbit better suitable for a Raider's than beaver after all?

And I also remember you told us beaver and rabbit on the same block yield a totally different hat. So, will there be two versions of your new block? One for beaver and one for rabbit?

I use pure beaver because it has always been the top drawer of felt. When I started making hats, I wanted a better blockshape than was on the 7500 hundred bucks I had spent on hats, as I had bought them all, mostly in 3's. But, I also wanted the best felt, as I am a quality nut. I knew beaver was not used in the films, and I was well aware of that tradeoff. And, I used to offer rabbit as well as beaver. But, 99 per cent of my sales were the beaver, probably because I was charging 225.00 when most beaver hats started at around 500 and went up. It was a huge bargain for folks. Plus, in felt you get what you pay for, and it is no big secret that beaver is just a more durable felt, stronger, and I knew it was the way for me to go since I am obsessed with quality and durability.


But with this said, rabbit was the felt used in the first 3 films. And being such, there will always be folks that want the original fur. Rabbit moves differently, generally speaking.

When I spoke about beaver vs rabbit and the block, what I was talking about was not so much the fur, but the stiffness of the respective felts. Now, the rabbit that I was getting at the time came with a bit too much stiffener. A stiff hat does not move the same as a softer hat. You can compensate for this, in the block shape. An example would be a new Christy. If I put a stiff felt on that same block(if I owned one) the results would be different than if I used the felt they are using, which is softer, much less stiff. The stiff felt would be more tapered, that is, the final hat. That is because the stiffer felt does not move the same as a non stiff felt.

If I were using stiff felt, I would actually have to exagerrate my blocks a bit, so as to pull off the look of a soft felt. And that is what I was talking about. I get my bodies with no shellac added, and while they can never be as floppy as a no shellac rabbit, they are soft enough to use the same block as one would use for a no shellac rabbit body. Hope this helps. Fedora

Thanks for the detailed explanation!
This makes it much clearer to me.
Now I got your point.

Cheers
HP

Thanks everyone for the many comments on the block work and the revival of the Rabbit Raiders. This is very exciting. A trip over to the Cairo Bazaar section might be very interesting!

LLS

Oh drat it, LLS!!!! Can't you at least let me finish reading the Fedora section before teasing me with new ways to spend my money ;-)

Indiana Blooze,
Your avatar just simply tickles me. You would make a great doghouse bass player in a bluegrass band.
As far as spending money, I promise you it won't cost you one penny.............................until you order one. ;-)

LLS

Dave

Local Land Surveyor wrote:Indiana Blooze,
Your avatar just simply tickles me. You would make a great doghouse bass player in a bluegrass band.

While not an Indy hat, that is a vintage Stetson Fedora in that pic.

beautiful hat. You, sir, are a true hatter. Keep up the excellence!