The prototype has arrived at my door from Wings. First, let me say that this jacket is an interesting hybrid. As most of us know, Wings makes an excellent product when it comes to quality of materials and craftsmanship. The knock has been voiced the most here is that they miss out on some SA details. This jacket corrects many of those details and really has an SA vibe to it. But the jacket didn't hit all the details on our spec sheet. Holt is known around here (and deservedly so) for his attention to detail on these jackets. And the work he did for this jacket is no exception as our 25 page spec sheet can attest. And as more pictures come to light, the more I can see that he nailed the specs.
All of this isn't to throw off on Wings by any means. They are not a custom jacket maker. I would venture an educated guess and say that their Indy jackets make up a small percentage of their sales. This isn't said to make excuses but to put things in context and show that Hack and his production department really did go overboard to try to make the prototype the best they could within reason for us here.
I'm going to send the jacket back soon and production will then start. I believe production will be limited to 100 jackets with each jacket numbered. There will also probably be a tag on the label indicating that this jacket is a special edition. I should also note that this jacket was made in their vintage cowhide. As per our poll we conducted earlier, most of you wanted to go with their antique lamb and there's a picture of a swatch of it at the end.
Okay, onto the jacket description and the pics:
First, the good. They got very close on the collar stand and pockets, nailed the collar, nailed the yoke to sleeve seam placement, tapered the sleeves, tapered the back panel, and got the good, silver chunky zipper.
Bad news:
D-rings (pretty easy to switch out but there you go), American zipper placement (I'm going to discuss this with them as I would think this would be an easy remedy), and they missed the action pleat construction. I spoke with Wings and they said that this was as close as they could come to the action pleats without a major pattern change.
From the sample they sent, it seems to be a resilient lamb and made to break in easy. For the low numbers they're planning, they want to work in one hide. Lamb won out on our poll. Wings could do the jacket in goat (my personal choice) but we tried to be democratic.
The tag on the jacket reads large (42-44 on the Wings chart) so I'm thinking they'll do their sizing like the Blue Label. The price I was told early on was $300.
It is a good looking jacket. A bit better than their standard offering. Besides the vent/strap configuration...it does look like a ToD.
It certainly is MUCH better than their other Blue Label special which imo didn't look anything like the "non-used stunt" jacket that they patterned it after.
If the fit on my Wested ToD isn't right, I would certainly sell that and pick up one of these.
Some observations. The collar depth on mine is 2.5" at the back and closer to 3" at the ends, and the collar ends are more rounded. also there is no 'inside' separate collar stand
the pocket is 6" tall. you have the width about right
the bottom seam of the yoke on mine is 19.75", with the bottom panel just slightly less. (what you are calling the yoke I think of as the back panel.)
bottom of the back panel is 15.5"
The top (shoulder seams) of the yoke probably should angle down more from the neck to the shoulder end. this seam is only center on the shoulder at the neck end, then 'falls' to the back on the shoulder end.
your arm hole should probably be a little deeper and he sleeves slightly fuller through the bicep and elbow. A 6" cuff end like you have is the same.
Sometimes looking at pictures of the NH jacket I think the bottom opening vent of the action pleat was an after thought, that is the stitching cut open after it was made.
If anything it could have a zipper with an even larger pull, but the rectangular pull used looks OK.
Last edited by RCSignals on Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the details that are missing is the vents, american zipper pull placement and the buckles.
Also missing is the collar extending to almost the end of the storm flap. It does look like a nice jacket, just not TOD to me. I'm sure there will be plenty here who dig it though.
the details that are missing is the vents, american zipper pull placement and the buckles.
Also missing is the collar extending to almost the end of the storm flap. It does look like a nice jacket, just not TOD to me. I'm sure there will be plenty here who dig it though.
yeah... I know..
I allready had that detail in order.I pointed this again out to crsimans yesterday.I really hoped they could make this little change on the jackets before they make the 100
here is a picture to illustrate that.
Last edited by Holt on Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Yeah, the vintage cowhide really does carry a CS feel. I think the antique lamb will help the jacket to catch more of that ToD vibe.
Here's the swatch again:
and here's the standard jacket in the lamb from the Wings site:
I'm sure most of you have read this already but here's the description of the leather:
Note: our "antique" lambskin comes with a thin protective coating over the surface which may make the leather look new initially, but will "break-in" and age rapidly as you wear it, giving you that desirable 50 Mission look.
The Wested ToD really set the bar in terms of accuracy. And it should, afterall a screen-used jacket was present.
If Wested never replicated the NH jacket, I am pretty sure more accolades would have fallen upon this prototype. I like the color and look of the antique lamb. The prototype really should have been made with it as we would get an even better picture of the overall look.
Any one have the US Wings Indy in antique lamb? I wonder how it looks after the newness is gone.
I have the US Wings LE that pretty much has the same distressing effects. It pretty neat knowing that I can put on the jacket in the morning and by the same afternoon the jacket will look a bit different as it picks up little scratches and such just by wearing it.
they wont change anything.only the hide.and I am trying to push crismans into making us wings see that they MUST attach the colar more in the middle of the stormflap. ;-) you hear me crismans? here is a little extra pushing.
thats all..
just some facts: us wings dont have Indy jackets as they bread and butter.its just a small % in their shop...what we have now is as far us wings is willing to go when it comes to make a custom made jacket,which is as close to the TofD without making a whole new pattern...SA details is just not important for them,espacially when the Indy jacket is just such a small part of theur business...
we have pushed them to the limit.
there is actually no point on picking on details and say they need to change this and that..they just wont!
I think when I get my jacket in the lambskin,give the jacket some new buckles and if wings have changed the collar and zipper,the jacket will have a totaly different apperance....
much more SA
Last edited by Holt on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
I can agree with that. Hopefully they will at least fix that collar. I wouldn't worry at all about the vent opening from them.
One thing about the pockets being taller is the 'handwarmer' pocket should be accessible.
As I said, they really should consider making this their standard pattern
Kt Templar wrote:If only life were as easy as photoshop. .
It's not?
Any one have the US Wings Indy in antique lamb? I wonder how it looks after the newness is gone.
The U.S. Wings blurb:
Note: our "antique" lambskin comes with a thin protective coating over the surface which may make the leather look new initially, but will "break-in" and age rapidly as you wear it, giving you that desirable 50 Mission look.
I have a U.S. Wings G-2 in antique lamb I got during their clearance sale a couple years ago. I like the color of it, though it's still a little shiny. Mine is smooth and grainy, heck, looking at it, it has a similar grain to my shrunken lamb TN1 in places (though the shrunken lamb is in a league of its own). It should distress easily, because it's got places around seams and the collar which have worn down a little bit with natural wear. Those of you who like to artificially distress your jackets could have a field day with this leather. It's brown underneath, not grey. Here's a picture of my jacket, just so you can get an idea of what this ToD jacket leather might look like:
On my VIP cowhide the only thing I can say needed improvement was the collar area, needed to be tightened up a bit. Too bad they couldnt use that hide on this, it is heavy but so soft. And BTW you wouldnt believe how many woman complimented me on this jacket.
Thanks for the pictures of your jacket, Bink! That looks really, really good. I really think the lambskin will add to the ToD flavor of the jacket.
I'm going to try and get the collar and zipper adjusted since that's pretty small adjustments in the grand scheme of things (Mea culpa, Holt! ) but I'm trying to walk that line between persistant and pushy. I think that Sgt. Hack really has a special like for this place (what with the various discounts to COW members and offering to make this jacket) but I don't what to get to pesty and perhaps mess up the project.
My jacket is very well made and has put up with some decent abuse. It's my go-to winter leather jacket at the moment and I've worn it in wind, rain, and snow. It hasn't snagged on anything, either. It's a tank!
Eric/crismans, if 'push comes to shove', Wings will just pack up their tent and move on, so don't be doing a WHOLE lot more pushing if you want this to come to fruition. Wings doesn't work like that. I'm speaking from personal knowledge and experience, my friends.
A VERY nice looking jacket, if I may say so myself.
Michaelson wrote:
Eric/crismans, if 'push comes to shove', Wings will just pack up their tent and move on, so don't be doing a WHOLE lot more pushing if you want this to come to fruition. Wings doesn't work like that. I'm speaking from personal knowledge and experience, my friends.
Regards! Michaelson
Understood! And I personally think it's a great looking jacket. Even if nothing is changed, I'm proud to have been a part of its creation and will be very happy to own one.
I'd probably leave that jacket as is. Nice work Crismans and Holt. This jacket should become US Wings' norm, or at least not be limited to a mere 100. That back panel looks great and the collar is superb. The pockets look pretty cool too.
Indiana Holt wrote:they wont change anything.only the hide.and I am trying to push crismans into making us wings see that they MUST attach the colar more in the middle of the stormflap. ;-) you hear me crismans? here is a little extra pushing.
thats all..
just some facts: us wings dont have Indy jackets as they bread and butter.its just a small % in their shop...what we have now is as far us wings is willing to go when it comes to make a custom made jacket,which is as close to the TofD without making a whole new pattern...SA details is just not important for them
much more SA
Well, I guess it's stating the obvious, but looks like we're at a stalemate here. It's good that they were willing to change as much as they could without making a new pattern, too bad for us they are not willing to make that investment as I think it would pay for itself in the long run. I can understand their position from a business perspective, so as you said there is no apparent reason to bend over backwards to accommodate our specifications. However, I think it needs to be said that we can't be expected to purchase something that does not suit our requirements as narrow and picky as they may be. US Wings has what I think is a substantial advantage over other vendors in that they are US based, and I would be very happy to forego international shipping and get a product from them even if it were not perfectly custom as far as the fitting is concerned, but as you drift further and further away or as they are not willing to come closer to the TOD design they are trying to meet, it becomes less likely that I will want to buy their product. I think it's wise for them to only make 100 if they aren't in a position to make it more screen accurate. I hope it looks more convincing when they show us a prototype in the proposed lamb hide. I think it will look significantly better, I just wish they would invest in us (the Indy fans) so they could do a little more business on our end.
Actually, Wings is the largest seller of Indy jackets in the world. Seriously.
For example, TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) has had a standing order with them to supply their field employess with Indy jackets since it was first introduced. That's THOUSANDS of jackets each year. We're talking over a decade + now, so in spite of what you might perceive, they've had such as strong following for this jacket line, it's WHY they even bothered to make a few specialized runs in the past year.....to satisfy the fans for a closer SA production jacket.
They're a military contract jacket maker. That's their bread and butter, so in comparison to THAT part of the business, you're right...we're a small part...but it's a HUGE number!
Which was one of my points even though I probably didn't phrase it correctly. They sell a ton of these jackets so they really don't need to make changes to the product. The changes made in this prototype were specifically made for us here who pay more attention to SA details. I think it's understandable that they didn't want to make major pattern changes.
But, even if you still don't like the product, don't discount the effort made on it. ;-)
Michaelson wrote:Actually, Wings is the largest seller of Indy jackets in the world. Seriously.
For example, TVA (Tennessee Valley Authority) has had a standing order with them to supply their field employess with Indy jackets since it was first introduced. That's THOUSANDS of jackets each year. We're talking over a decade + now, so in spite of what you might perceive, they've had such as strong following for this jacket line, it's WHY they even bothered to make a few specialized runs in the past year.....to satisfy the fans for a closer SA production jacket.
They're a military contract jacket maker. That's their bread and butter, so in comparison to THAT part of the business, you're right...we're a small part...but it's a HUGE number!
If it went into production, I'd take one as is. Assuming, that is, that they would make it available in long sizes ;-). I have to say kudos to those involved in the project. And, if it comes to fruition, it might be the best balance of look, price, durability, and consistency.
than you for your kind words.its appreciated! the jacket apperance has sunken in a bit now.I must admit that I did set my standard high on this project.maby becasue I am so obsessed with details.(yes bink,im admitting ;-) )but I am liking it more and more and MORE.I actually worked on this projct at night,because I did not have the time during the day.it was a pain.but jacket did actually turn out very good and SA aside it is a really nice jacket with a really high durability factor over it.
the jacket does not come in long sizes though.the back length on this jacket here is 26'' with 25'' sleeves.
as soon as it is made into production crismans and I have reserved jacket # 1 and jacket # 2
us wings did a great job on this.I cant wait until I get mine.
Last edited by Holt on Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks for your efforts ;-)
