Club Obi Wan

- I've done unsucsessful web searches a few times over the years, tonight I found some. Borsalinos ($214.99). Plus a cheap model, (they use the same picture, so I'd be suspicious of that one). There's a new comercial on TV, Jewish guy in a hat -looks just like a Raiders hat, that's why I did another search. "..Yes....That's just what the Hebrews thought..." http://www.milechai.com/c/borsalino_black_hats.html

Any chance of seeing one of these hats in brown?

-John

Here's the 3 inch brim Borsalino for sale at Miller Hats- I forgot is was $215 as well, I thought it was more, probably because my PBBM cost me $325.

That looks a bit lighter in color than the PBBM.

Borsalino makes several qualities of felt. The Allesandria from Peters Bros. and the PBBM are both the top qualitymade by borsalino. In side they state "Qualita Superiore". When buying a Borsalino don't just go by the name, always check the quality marked.

Does anyone have one of these Miller Borsalinos? I don't think there has been much posted on this hat?

JohnNdy wrote:Any chance of seeing one of these hats in brown?

-John

Borsalino is generally considered to be the finest hat in the world... Italian felt fur and no other make comes close. The Borsalino black fedora was made famous by the Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson. Its the favored hat won by Hassidic Jews. Its stylish and looks good. And at the price, such a hat will last a lifetime.

Borsalino is generally considered to be the finest hat in the world... Italian felt fur and no other make comes close.

Who told you that? The sales clerk at Borsalino?! Boy, my stomach hurts from laughting!!!

It's not even TWO months since I visited the store together with my wife and Erri in Florence to see their absolute top of the line felt. Can you recall the price yet Erri? - 400 Euro or so A lose lightweight rabbit felt, with a leather sweatband that was sewn in with so tiny stitches with machine at the very brim break (in opposite to slightly above), that it was basicly perforated and VERY difficult to reblock! The liner was GLUED in

And that was right there in Italy! Would this hat last a lifetime? - Well certainly The life time of the rabbit it was made of probably Not to sound harsh here, but the people in here actually wear the "what-comes-out-of-your-behind" out of there hats instead of using them once a week for an occasional walk through the park!

Regards,

Marc

Yeah all the hats here at the local hat shops are incredibly poor quality. They don't cost 400 euros though.

The original post was posted 3½ years ago, btw.

I have a vintage Borsalino from the early 1940's,does anyone know how their vintage felt compares to the modern hats?

Blows the modern felt away. I own and occasionally wear a late 40's, early 50's Borsalino, and it's felt reminds me a lot of a thin AB 100% beaver.

Regards! Michaelson

This picture is from July this year.

Last time I went out to the QM summit, I was on a plane from Chicago to Long Beach, and a Jewish gentleman was sitting in front of me wearing his black Borsalino.

He kept eyeing my PBBM that I was wearing that trip, but never said anything. He just smiled, nodded, then got off the plane ahead of me.

Regards! Michaelson

Last Saturday I went in for a photo sitting wearing a suit and my Adventurebilt. The photographer said I looked like a Hasidic diamond merchant. He wasn't even quoting Aretha Franklin in "The Blues Brothers", he was serious.

I saw several Hasidic Jewish gentlemen outside the Brooklyn Museum and was really, really impressed by their hats. I thought it would be too rude to ask about them, though. They had some nice lookin' suits too.

They don't cost 400 euros though.

If not, it ain't far off VP. As I said, it's less than two months since I visited their shop in Florence.

I have a vintage Borsalino from the early 1940's,does anyone know how their vintage felt compares to the modern hats?

Blows the modern felt away. I own and occasionally wear a late 40's, early 50's Borsalino, and it's felt reminds me a lot of a thin AB 100% beaver.

Yes, these are really nice hats! My father owns a Borsa from the 40's as well (got it from his father again) and it's VERY nice. Things went down the drain after Borsalino sold out in the late '80ies.

Regards,

Marc

Who told you that? The sales clerk at Borsalino?! Boy, my stomach hurts from laughting!!!

For a nearly 150 year old Italian company in this business, one should expect nothing but the best.

It's not even TWO months since I visited the store together with my wife and Erri in Florence to see their absolute top of the line felt. Can you recall the price yet Erri? - 400 Euro or so A lose lightweight rabbit felt, with a leather sweatband that was sewn in with so tiny stitches with machine at the very brim break (in opposite to slightly above), that it was basicly perforated and VERY difficult to reblock! The liner was GLUED in

The hats you saw were machine-made? I would think they were hand-made. Doesn't Borsalino have a factory in Alessandria?

And that was right there in Italy! Would this hat last a lifetime? - Well certainly The life time of the rabbit it was made of probably Not to sound harsh here, but the people in here actually wear the "what-comes-out-of-your-behind" out of there hats instead of using them once a week for an occasional walk through the park!

They were supposed to. I take it from your perspective the present day quality of the hat doesn't measure up to the brand's reputation.

It's the same story with Stetson and HJ (and, as far as I understand, most of the other surviving classic hat brands) - they used to make outstanding hats. But now they sell mass produced dress hats that are only mere shadows of the hats the companies used to make.

Luckily there are still hatters, like Marc and Steve, that make quality hats, that can be compared to the hats of the golden era


/Jakob

JEEP wrote:It's the same story with Stetson and HJ (and, as far as I understand, most of the other surviving classic hat brands) - they used to make outstanding hats. But now they sell mass produced dress hats that are only mere shadows of the hats the companies used to make.

Luckily there are still hatters, like Marc and Steve, that make quality hats, that can be compared to the hats of the golden era


/Jakob

Some of them went of out of business and considering the economics, producing a hand-made hat just takes too long. You can produce millions of hats economically by stamping them through a common machine block. The problem is the quality just doesn't quite measure up to the vintage era hats. For instance, I guess Borsalino could still make a vintage era fedora the old style but it would be more expensive than 400 euros.

For a nearly 150 year old Italian company in this business, one should expect nothing but the best.

Not absolutely! Not sure how it is in Italy, but I'd bet that it's not THAT different from Germany. And in Germany only 4% of the bigger and middlesized companies, still are family owned after the fourth generation. The other 96% are either bankrupt or bought out by bigger companies and THEN it's all about time vs. money!

The hats you saw were machine-made? I would think they were hand-made. Doesn't Borsalino have a factory in Alessandria?

Yes, as the word says: a factory! I even know the guy who makes and repair their machines

They were supposed to. I take it from your perspective the present day quality of the hat doesn't measure up to the brand's reputation.

Right you are! A fate that many formerly great hat brands share

Regards,

Marc

Marc wrote:

VP wrote:They don't cost 400 euros though.

If not, it ain't far off VP. As I said, it's less than two months since I visited their shop in Florence.

I was talking about the hats in local shops in general, not specifically Borsalinos.

I was talking about the hats in local shops in general, not specifically Borsalinos.

The decline in hat quality is due to the lack of market demand for well-made hats. Before the 1960s, both men and women wore hats. Today, fedoras are primarily worn by people in a niche market, like Hassidic Jews. Ever since Kennedy went hatless, the haberdasheries that were once a staple of American and European life have all but disappeared. And that has made itself felt in the hats produced for today's market. They are nothing like the hats that generations of people wore before they went out of fashion a few decades ago.

NormanF wrote:

I was talking about the hats in local shops in general, not specifically Borsalinos.

The decline in hat quality is due to the lack of market demand for well-made hats. Before the 1960s, both men and women wore hats. Today, fedoras are primarily worn by people in a niche market, like Hassidic Jews. Ever since Kennedy went hatless, the haberdasheries that were once a staple of American and European life have all but disappeared. And that has made itself felt in the hats produced for today's market. They are nothing like the hats that generations of people wore before they went out of fashion a few decades ago.

I am not certain it was just Kennedy -- I think the Beatles also played a role in this....hair-over-hat, if you will. Many things have changed thinking, over the years....when you go out now to the mall, or wherever, people in 20 degree weather run around in t-shirts and shorts -- now jackets, etc. are not part of their attire. Americans don't value good taiste! And, fashion, re: fedoras, etc., are in some ways 'out the window'! Shame, but true! W>

Kennedy is the poster boy for the "death of the fedora" but he was not the main cause.
I believe since the early 1920s hat wear among men had been in decline. This was especially a trend among younger, college men. The youth are always the ones to bring cultural change.
There were specific efforts by hat manufacturers to address this problem and remedy it. By the time Kennedy arrived on the scene with his inflated sense of vanity the future of hatwear looked bleak.

Let us not forget Kennedy wore a hat to his inauguration. The photos just show the hatless ones.

Read Hatless Jack for a nice primer on the subject.