Another Tony Nowak thread.
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
Another Tony Nowak thread.
So I saw Tony this weekend at the Queen Mary. I checked out his stuff. I decided not to post in an existing thread because this thread is going to be all over the place.
Fist off let me say that I’ve been critical of the Crystal Skull jacket in the past. It’s just not my favorite Indiana Jones jacket. Most of the details of this jacket had nothing to do with Tony himself. He built the jacket on spec. The major thing that we all know that he did contribute was changing the collar from the existing design so that it would lay flat. I’m sure that there were also many “invisible” upgrades to the existing design as well to make the jacket more functional. I tried one on and hey, it looked like a CS jacket, no bones about it. I’ll talk about the quality later.
Now what I personally was really interested in was his new “Raiders” jacket. Tony’s jacket is a winner. The first thing that struck me is that his jacket was a cousin to the G&B Expedition. There were many Wested Raiders to be seen at the Queen Mary, and the TN & the Expedition seemed like they shared the same bloodline and the Wested seemed a bit like another species. That’s my honest opinion.
I took my Expo. off and started comparing details with the TN Raiders and they were the same, only different. Now, was the TN Raiders an exact duplicate of the hero jacket worn by Ford in Raiders? I don’t know. Quite frankly I don’t care if it is or isn’t. What’s important (to me) is that the jacket captures the essence of the Raiders jacket. The TN does it in spades. One thing that the TN does do for instance (and possibly better than other jackets), is that it “wears off the shoulders” just like a Raiders jacket. Nobody would ever design a jacket to do that. It’s a flaw in the Raiders jacket (of which there are many). However, Tony’s jacket is comfortable and there are no ill effects from his jacket being able to emulate the effect. Ironically, he uses a lining that is made out of the same material that the original Expos had before G&B changed it. It’s different than what he uses for his CS jacket.
Here’s the deal with Tony’s quality. It’s of the highest caliber. Is it higher than a Gibson & Barnes Expedition? No. I would rank them at about the same. You can make a jacket to a certain high standard and that’s it. You can’t really go higher. According to Einstein, you can’t go faster than the speed of light. Han Solo was full of ####. There is no “point five past light speed”. Both jackets have reached that point. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t very different from each other, obviously. Quite frankly, I believe that many here were blown away with the quality of Tony’s CS jacket because they had never seen quality of that caliber before.
Now aesthetics can be a real dividing line. Some people have been critical of G&B jackets because they don’t “distress” easily. I would say that they’re guilty as charged. But it’s not really a crime. Many people prefer that. I talked to some of them this weekend. They’re just a little less vocal about it than others on this board. They want to wear the thing to dinner, not go grave robbing in it. It has also been proven that the “distressed” look can be achieved with a G&B with elbow grease. On the flip side Tony has always offered jackets in predistressed hide (as well as “new” hides). In the past I’ve said that I personally didn’t care much for the CS hide. That is still the case. However, his “Raiders” predistressed hide (the one that some of you are calling “dino hide”) is the bees knees. I was skeptical at first like many of you, but I now believe that Tony cracked the code.
Let’s discus what this leather is. It is a lambskin that has gone through an enzyme tanning process. In the process the hide loses real estate. It tightens up. You get some of those hide “ripples” or “scales”, or whatever you want to call them. The hide shrinkage means that this leather is expensive (btw). This hide was very prevalent in the eighties. Avirex made predistressed A-2’s & G-1’s out of them. When Tony looked at the films (no to mention what he had in hand), this is what he saw. It made sense. It fit the time period that these films were made. (Ironically, this leather may become the “holy grail” of leather to the Indiana Jones community in the future, but it would make you a laughingstock to the historical A-2 & G-1 crowd of today). Now that I knew what I was looking for, I saw it too when I looked at the dvd’s yesterday.
These “scales” are prevalent in every Indiana Jones jacket (except for CS). You just have to look closely. They are especially prevalent in the Raiders jacket. They are definitely apparent on the back panel. How could this have been missed for so long? For one thing, these “scales” (for lack of a better term), are not uniformly spread out over the leather in the movie jackets. I remember this when I saw those old Avirex jackets. Some were very “scaley” and others had the scales in certain sections of the jacket. I confirmed this yesterday as well. Years ago I traded a Peters Brothers fedora to Michaelson for a US Wings lambskin jacket, which I gave to my father. I took a look at it yesterday and sure enough, those scales were on certain sections of leather. The hide that Tony has procured is very uniform. It’s an expensive hide. It is nicer than what is on the Wings jacket. I personally love the hide that Tony procured, but it might be too "good" (uniform) for some on this board. Getting back to the subject of how can this have been missed, there aren’t many natural light shots of the jacket in Raiders. In the ones that are shot in natural light, the jacket is covered in @#$%. The camera also loses detail. Lee Keppler confirms that back in 86 or 87, the “bellhop” jackets that Peter sent him were made from this leather. If you still don’t believe that the Raiders jacket was made from this material, or you don’t like that type of hide, that’s just as well. Tony also offers the jacket in a variety of smooth hides as well. He'll also change any jacket detail that you want.
On a personal level, Tony is a helluva guy. He confirmed to me that his personal “Raiders” jacket is his favorite jacket. He makes a helluva product. It would take a helluva product (his Raiders jacket) at this point for me to even consider getting another Indiana Jones jacket (I’m so pleased with my various Expeditions). I guess I don’t really need two kidneys do I?
Fist off let me say that I’ve been critical of the Crystal Skull jacket in the past. It’s just not my favorite Indiana Jones jacket. Most of the details of this jacket had nothing to do with Tony himself. He built the jacket on spec. The major thing that we all know that he did contribute was changing the collar from the existing design so that it would lay flat. I’m sure that there were also many “invisible” upgrades to the existing design as well to make the jacket more functional. I tried one on and hey, it looked like a CS jacket, no bones about it. I’ll talk about the quality later.
Now what I personally was really interested in was his new “Raiders” jacket. Tony’s jacket is a winner. The first thing that struck me is that his jacket was a cousin to the G&B Expedition. There were many Wested Raiders to be seen at the Queen Mary, and the TN & the Expedition seemed like they shared the same bloodline and the Wested seemed a bit like another species. That’s my honest opinion.
I took my Expo. off and started comparing details with the TN Raiders and they were the same, only different. Now, was the TN Raiders an exact duplicate of the hero jacket worn by Ford in Raiders? I don’t know. Quite frankly I don’t care if it is or isn’t. What’s important (to me) is that the jacket captures the essence of the Raiders jacket. The TN does it in spades. One thing that the TN does do for instance (and possibly better than other jackets), is that it “wears off the shoulders” just like a Raiders jacket. Nobody would ever design a jacket to do that. It’s a flaw in the Raiders jacket (of which there are many). However, Tony’s jacket is comfortable and there are no ill effects from his jacket being able to emulate the effect. Ironically, he uses a lining that is made out of the same material that the original Expos had before G&B changed it. It’s different than what he uses for his CS jacket.
Here’s the deal with Tony’s quality. It’s of the highest caliber. Is it higher than a Gibson & Barnes Expedition? No. I would rank them at about the same. You can make a jacket to a certain high standard and that’s it. You can’t really go higher. According to Einstein, you can’t go faster than the speed of light. Han Solo was full of ####. There is no “point five past light speed”. Both jackets have reached that point. That doesn’t mean that they aren’t very different from each other, obviously. Quite frankly, I believe that many here were blown away with the quality of Tony’s CS jacket because they had never seen quality of that caliber before.
Now aesthetics can be a real dividing line. Some people have been critical of G&B jackets because they don’t “distress” easily. I would say that they’re guilty as charged. But it’s not really a crime. Many people prefer that. I talked to some of them this weekend. They’re just a little less vocal about it than others on this board. They want to wear the thing to dinner, not go grave robbing in it. It has also been proven that the “distressed” look can be achieved with a G&B with elbow grease. On the flip side Tony has always offered jackets in predistressed hide (as well as “new” hides). In the past I’ve said that I personally didn’t care much for the CS hide. That is still the case. However, his “Raiders” predistressed hide (the one that some of you are calling “dino hide”) is the bees knees. I was skeptical at first like many of you, but I now believe that Tony cracked the code.
Let’s discus what this leather is. It is a lambskin that has gone through an enzyme tanning process. In the process the hide loses real estate. It tightens up. You get some of those hide “ripples” or “scales”, or whatever you want to call them. The hide shrinkage means that this leather is expensive (btw). This hide was very prevalent in the eighties. Avirex made predistressed A-2’s & G-1’s out of them. When Tony looked at the films (no to mention what he had in hand), this is what he saw. It made sense. It fit the time period that these films were made. (Ironically, this leather may become the “holy grail” of leather to the Indiana Jones community in the future, but it would make you a laughingstock to the historical A-2 & G-1 crowd of today). Now that I knew what I was looking for, I saw it too when I looked at the dvd’s yesterday.
These “scales” are prevalent in every Indiana Jones jacket (except for CS). You just have to look closely. They are especially prevalent in the Raiders jacket. They are definitely apparent on the back panel. How could this have been missed for so long? For one thing, these “scales” (for lack of a better term), are not uniformly spread out over the leather in the movie jackets. I remember this when I saw those old Avirex jackets. Some were very “scaley” and others had the scales in certain sections of the jacket. I confirmed this yesterday as well. Years ago I traded a Peters Brothers fedora to Michaelson for a US Wings lambskin jacket, which I gave to my father. I took a look at it yesterday and sure enough, those scales were on certain sections of leather. The hide that Tony has procured is very uniform. It’s an expensive hide. It is nicer than what is on the Wings jacket. I personally love the hide that Tony procured, but it might be too "good" (uniform) for some on this board. Getting back to the subject of how can this have been missed, there aren’t many natural light shots of the jacket in Raiders. In the ones that are shot in natural light, the jacket is covered in @#$%. The camera also loses detail. Lee Keppler confirms that back in 86 or 87, the “bellhop” jackets that Peter sent him were made from this leather. If you still don’t believe that the Raiders jacket was made from this material, or you don’t like that type of hide, that’s just as well. Tony also offers the jacket in a variety of smooth hides as well. He'll also change any jacket detail that you want.
On a personal level, Tony is a helluva guy. He confirmed to me that his personal “Raiders” jacket is his favorite jacket. He makes a helluva product. It would take a helluva product (his Raiders jacket) at this point for me to even consider getting another Indiana Jones jacket (I’m so pleased with my various Expeditions). I guess I don’t really need two kidneys do I?
Last edited by Rundquist on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:56 pm, edited 7 times in total.
- Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44484
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
Ironically, this was the very reason folks gave for NOT liking the Wings lambskin jacket at the time. ;-)Years ago I traded a Peters Brothers fedora to Michaelson for a US Wings lambskin jacket, which I gave to my father. I took a look at it yesterday and sure enough, those scales were on certain sections of leather.
SURELY Wings/Cooper didn't actually know what they were talking about yet again?!
EXCELLENT overview, Adam! Thanks!
Regards! Michaelson
Last edited by Michaelson on Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
very well put rundquist.......oh my god.....we are agreeing on something in the leather jacket section.......i think i just saw a pig zoom by my window.........
in all seriousness, i'm glad one of the 'heavy hitters' in the jacket section got a chance to see first hand what mr. nowak is all about.
great educated post my friend.
cheers,
G
in all seriousness, i'm glad one of the 'heavy hitters' in the jacket section got a chance to see first hand what mr. nowak is all about.
great educated post my friend.
cheers,
G
- ReturningSon
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Fullerton, CA
Great overview, Adam.......it's true it has to be experienced in person....mine is aging well and becoming a part of me,great draping and flow.....I just wish someone ( Hint, Hint _ ) could get a great hollywood photog to get some pictures in proper lighting etc to make it more visible to everyone on the board..........Hatch
-
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2002 3:42 pm
- Location: Birmingham, England
Re: Another Tony Nowak thread.
Adam,
Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds very nice but I have to say, I did not see any evidence of "scales" on the NH Temple of Doom hero jacket.
Chris
Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds very nice but I have to say, I did not see any evidence of "scales" on the NH Temple of Doom hero jacket.
Chris
Rundquist wrote: These “scales” are prevalent in every Indiana Jones jacket (except for CS). You just have to look closely. They are especially prevalent in the Raiders jacket.
Re: Another Tony Nowak thread.
Take a look at the shot of the back of the jacket when Indy whips Willie's waist at the end. Doom obviously had multiple jackets. Perhaps it was a leftover stunt jacket in that shot. I'm not saying that the Coopers were made from this material, but who knows what was on the screen in any given shot?Chris_King wrote:Adam,
Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds very nice but I have to say, I did not see any evidence of "scales" on the NH Temple of Doom hero jacket.
Chris
Rundquist wrote: These “scales” are prevalent in every Indiana Jones jacket (except for CS). You just have to look closely. They are especially prevalent in the Raiders jacket.
ps- In LC you can clearly see the hide’s trademark “scales” in the collar in the "at the crossroads to Berlin" scene. The dvd needs to be paused and then you need to blow up the frame. But these “scales” are all over the place, especially in Raiders.
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
talked to tony today and he mentioned how much fun it was to meet alot of you folks.....and i wish i could have attended, but i'll save the tear in my beer for another time. he told me how he got the pleasure of meeting anthony delongis and was surprised on how dangerous a bullwhip can be....he thought it was all done by computers before..... i didn't have the heart to tell him that some of it was...
anyways, those that met him will attest to how down to earth he is. he told me he was more apprehensive to contradict someone's jacket specification than to sell his own based on his hands-on findings. the man will never tell you that you are wrong and will share with you his findings. its up to you to choose what you want and he will be happy to carry it out. i told him, "just build it how the customer wants it.......a couple months down the road, they'll find out they were initially wrong and you were right, then they'll come buy another jacket off of you....that's kinda how it works around here......."....
anyways, those that met him will attest to how down to earth he is. he told me he was more apprehensive to contradict someone's jacket specification than to sell his own based on his hands-on findings. the man will never tell you that you are wrong and will share with you his findings. its up to you to choose what you want and he will be happy to carry it out. i told him, "just build it how the customer wants it.......a couple months down the road, they'll find out they were initially wrong and you were right, then they'll come buy another jacket off of you....that's kinda how it works around here......."....
Indiana G wrote:talked to tony today and he mentioned how much fun it was to meet alot of you folks.....and i wish i could have attended, but i'll save the tear in my beer for another time. he told me how he got the pleasure of meeting anthony delongis and was surprised on how dangerous a bullwhip can be....he thought it was all done by computers before..... i didn't have the heart to tell him that some of it was...
anyways, those that met him will attest to how down to earth he is. he told me he was more apprehensive to contradict someone's jacket specification than to sell his own based on his hands-on findings. the man will never tell you that you are wrong and will share with you his findings. its up to you to choose what you want and he will be happy to carry it out. i told him, "just build it how the customer wants it.......a couple months down the road, they'll find out they were initially wrong and you were right, then they'll come buy another jacket off of you....that's kinda how it works around here......."....
He had an OG jacket in hand and he's not a liar. He made what he thinks it is. But he’ll sell you whatever you want. Here’s a quote that is indicative of the type of person he is. “Man I really liked Crystal Skull except for the end. Indiana really “F”ed up when he got married. He didn’t need to do that.”
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
Rundquist wrote:Indiana G wrote:talked to tony today and he mentioned how much fun it was to meet alot of you folks.....and i wish i could have attended, but i'll save the tear in my beer for another time. he told me how he got the pleasure of meeting anthony delongis and was surprised on how dangerous a bullwhip can be....he thought it was all done by computers before..... i didn't have the heart to tell him that some of it was...
anyways, those that met him will attest to how down to earth he is. he told me he was more apprehensive to contradict someone's jacket specification than to sell his own based on his hands-on findings. the man will never tell you that you are wrong and will share with you his findings. its up to you to choose what you want and he will be happy to carry it out. i told him, "just build it how the customer wants it.......a couple months down the road, they'll find out they were initially wrong and you were right, then they'll come buy another jacket off of you....that's kinda how it works around here......."....
He had an OG jacket in hand and he's not a liar. He made what he thinks it is. But he’ll sell you whatever you want. Here’s a quote that is indicative of the type of person he is. “Man I really liked Crystal Skull except for the end. Indiana really “F”ed up when he got married. He didn’t need to do that.”
.......i'm gonna have to share that with my wife over dinner tonite.......if you guys don't hear from me in a couple of days, you'll know what happened...........
As stated in the other thread…
From Pics of Tony and Bink at the QM, I'm more convinced than ever that there's definitely texture in the jacket. While it may not be uniform, these pics definitely show that it shows in some areas and not in others…as it does on film and photos previously shown.
Saving my pennies for that #612…
Mike
From Pics of Tony and Bink at the QM, I'm more convinced than ever that there's definitely texture in the jacket. While it may not be uniform, these pics definitely show that it shows in some areas and not in others…as it does on film and photos previously shown.
Saving my pennies for that #612…
Mike
Re: Another Tony Nowak thread.
Good post, but I seriously doubt it's a "flaw". It's how Ford wears it in the jungle scene. It's no more a flaw then how Ford wore the jacket after he climbed back over the cliff after then tank fight in Last Crusade.Rundquist wrote:...it “wears off the shoulders” just like a Raiders jacket. Nobody would ever design a jacket to do that. It’s a flaw in the Raiders jacket (of which there are many).[
SD
I agree with Rundquist - and after trying on several jackets (at Tony's request) on Saturday and speaking with him over dinner on Friday night, I'm just shocked at what a great guy he is. He also explained to me that the waviness of the zipper is due to the zipper being slightly too large for the jacket. He did say though that putting the zippers in is not an easy task, and also explained to me about the enzyme tanning - but Rundquist's explanation here is much easier to understand.
I loved the Raiders jackets he brought though - especially one he had which was in cowhide. I mistook it for a lamb, it was so soft! I also tried on Bink's jacket, and each of Tony's jackets is more comfortable than the last one you've worn. The jackets are beautiful in person and the texture is quite obviously (at least to me) much less visable in photos than it is in person; so I'm sure it could have been that way in the films. Makes perfect sense!
Shane
I loved the Raiders jackets he brought though - especially one he had which was in cowhide. I mistook it for a lamb, it was so soft! I also tried on Bink's jacket, and each of Tony's jackets is more comfortable than the last one you've worn. The jackets are beautiful in person and the texture is quite obviously (at least to me) much less visable in photos than it is in person; so I'm sure it could have been that way in the films. Makes perfect sense!
Shane
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
Re: Another Tony Nowak thread.
st. dumas.....what rundquist is probably referring to is how the jacket sits back on your shoulders naturally, which is where the rest of the jacket conforms to the shape of your body....ie- that's where it fits best. if you pull the jacket up to where it should be up on your shoulders, you should get a nice back panel flare jutting out of your back. i believe wested combatted this design (via customer requests) by evening out the length of the front and back and putting the yoke back where it should be.....that way she would sit better and look better in its natural state. not very SA but more real world.St. Dumas wrote:Good post, but I seriously doubt it's a "flaw". It's how Ford wears it in the jungle scene. It's no more a flaw then how Ford wore the jacket after he climbed back over the cliff after then tank fight in Last Crusade.Rundquist wrote:...it “wears off the shoulders” just like a Raiders jacket. Nobody would ever design a jacket to do that. It’s a flaw in the Raiders jacket (of which there are many).[
SD
most of you guys like the real world stuff so there you go. enjoy it. its functional....and it looks like indy's jacket.....and i stress the word LOOKS.
I think probably you both mean the same thing, but the connotation is causing a misunderstanding. I think you could call it a "flaw" or a "quirk," but either of you mean basically that the Raiders jacket is unlike what you might buy in an average leather jacket.St. Dumas wrote:Indiana G, I doubt we're disagreeing. I think it's a design element, not a flaw. "Flaw" presumes a mistake in design. If anything, it was a quirk that makes the original Raiders jacket unique.
SD
Shane
Re: Another Tony Nowak thread.
Far be it for me to rag on a design element that somebody likes. But I did pretty much mean what I said. Nobody that knows anything about jacket design would intentionally design that. Now I’m not saying that Peter didn’t know what he was doing when he made the thing, just that he was rushed. Anybody can pull a jacket off their shoulders. My point was that the Raiders jacket gravitates toward that. Tony said it, and I see it with my own eyes in the film. The off the shoulders thing was in one scene in LC.St. Dumas wrote:Good post, but I seriously doubt it's a "flaw". It's how Ford wears it in the jungle scene. It's no more a flaw then how Ford wore the jacket after he climbed back over the cliff after then tank fight in Last Crusade.Rundquist wrote:...it “wears off the shoulders” just like a Raiders jacket. Nobody would ever design a jacket to do that. It’s a flaw in the Raiders jacket (of which there are many).[
SD
- Indiana G
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3918
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:55 pm
- Location: in the Temple of Insanity
http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ns/r95.jpgSatipo wrote:Can anyone point me to a good shot of the off-the-shoulders look in Raiders?
http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/005.jpg
- Satipo
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:44 am
- Location: London, England
It looks like it, doesn't it? Not quite, though. I was on a BBC TV show a couple of weeks ago called, Never Mind the Buzzcocks. It's a comedy quiz show. I was part of a line-up where the celebrity teams have to determine who the real former popstar is out of the five of us standing there. It was a lot of fun.crismans wrote:This is totally off topic (for which I profusely apologize) but give us some details on the new avatar, Sapito. Were you a contestant on London's dating game?
- bigrex
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1188
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:21 pm
- Location: Alfecca Meridiana
So the lumpy leather is real life accurate but not screen accurate as it can't be seen on film? I know my Todd's standard has some rougher textured leather sort of hidden away in the rear parts of the jacket that can't be seen well, making up the space by the left action flap. I thought they were using up the textured leather in places not as obvious to the onlooker.
- Satipo
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1110
- Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:44 am
- Location: London, England
That would be a very flattering comparison, if your tongue wasn't firmly in your cheek, that is.crismans wrote:Sapito was. Former lead singer of Ah-Ha. ;-)
A Scottish guy called Andrew Montgomery. He fronted a 90s band called Geneva. A very nice guy - still does the music thing part-time.St. Dumas wrote:So, who was the real former pop star?
Check it out - five minutes from the end of this clip:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=mWrG1VNB0 ... re=related