Club Obi Wan

I have collected and averaged; however this may not represent the "end all be all" of the Raider's jacket... So, please feel free to do your own research (in fact I encourage that!), watch the movie yet again, frame by frame if you must, to get those dimensions/details right in your mind. I have collected what I could find here, in one place, to save someone from a lot of the work I did to get this far.

Note that there are several vendors who make a quality product. Some are more receptive than others to making changes to their patterns. Here is a list of some vendors you may wish to contact about making a one-off custom jacket (in alphabetical order):

Gibson & Barnes http://www.gibson-barnes.com/leather_expedition.html

Magnoli Clothiers http://magnolic.ipower.com/catalog/prod ... 09e136c78f

Todd's Costumes http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/indiana_jones.htm

Tony Nowak http://www.tonynowak.com/

U.S. Wings http://www.uswings.com/aviatn.asp

Wested Leather http://www.indyjacket.co.uk/

Also, please read the IndyGear Raiders jacket info here as a supplement to this data for a bit of background: http://www.indygear.com/igjacket-RotLA.html

A post by _ back from the turn of the century where he examined a Raider's stunt jacket first hand:
http://www.indyfan.com/vault/forum/messages/47309.html

Here is some reference information on Harrison Ford's height:
http://www.celebheights.com/s/Harrison-Ford-152.html

Other sizes (height seems to be in question; however I agree it was closer to 6' 1" than 5' 10", average is 5' 11.5") Shall we call it 6'?
(From Noel Howard)

Harrison Ford's sizes :

5' 9 1/2" (1.765 m) height, 40 chest and 34 waist with a 15 1/2" collar.

Shirt : Medium
Trousers : 34"
Web belt : 44"
Gunbelt : 38"
Bag Strap : 65"
Boots : 10.5

It would be nice to have his sleeve length too...

Finally, this is from _, who recently had the pleasure of an interview with Mr. Ford himself. Though it was a long time ago, Mr. Ford did recall some details from way back before the turn of the century...

"Ford wore a lot of different jackets in Raiders - too many to keep track of. During the Ellstree shoots, he swapped back and forth with Martin. In Africa he swapped back and forth with the stunt guys and wardrobe. He confirmed there was (at least) one jacket with a satin lining, and he knew he was wearing it during the fight with the mechanic (flying wing). He had only one jacket he wore in Hawaii. The jackets were always ripping or the zippers were breaking. The wardrobe people were just trying to keep them together. "

(I hope _ doesn't mind me using that bit of text. He has not replied to me regarding this thread... It will be removed if he wishes so.)


So, with all that in mind, here is my ever evolving list:

Leather: No question. It was Lambskin, and this has been documented. Many other hides look great too, but that is not the point of this thread...

• Cotton lining for body, sleeves and pockets
• 5 gauge silver colored zipper (aluminum used in movie) with small zipper pull (note: many were painted an antique brass color due to being too bright on screen in some scenes.) Here's a quote from Peter, who made the jackets for Raiders on the zipper...
"In the original film the jackets were supposed to have brass zips but
because of the time factors involved, many of the jackets had aluminium
zips that were painted to give an Antique Brass effect. Obviously,
during filming the paint came off revealing the aluminium underneath.
So the Authentic Jacket was supposed to have authentic brass..."
Many say it goes to the bottom of the jacket; however look at this photo and notice, at least on the stunt jacket, that it does not. It is known Ford swapped with the stunt ment regularly as mentioned above...
(From _) "Vic did have one jacket that did supposedly make an appearance in all three movies. His "hero copy" from Raiders was worn while he did filler shots for Ford at Ellstree while Ford was out with his back injury. Vic supposedly used that jacket for filler shots for LC as well after principle shooting wrapped. "
• NO leather facing on zipper area interior
• Storm flap 1.5” width; square and rounded top corner both seen in movie)
• Collar ending halfway between the zipper and the storm flap
• Collar width average 2.875 inches wide at the tip
(J!m spec 3")
(Agent5 spec 2.75")
• Pocket Average: 7.417” tall x 6.292” wide
(Platon Pockets 7.00" tall x 6.5" wide)
(Nowak pockets 8.00" tall x 6.0" wide)
(Chris_King pockets 7.25" tall x 6.5" wide)
(agent5 pockets: 7.50" tall X 6.25" wide)
(Holt pockets: EDIT)
(Rom Hunter pockets: 7.25" tall X 6.5" wide)
• Pocket on storm flap side should be positioned 1 inch from storm flap stitching and [one opinion is] the bottom of the pocket should be positioned 1.75 inches up from the bottom edge of the jacket.
• Side entry pockets? I say yes. Here's a bit from Michaelson: "Yes, they did, or at least we know for certain the stunt jackets did. That's what the Expedition was based on...a screen used, privately owned Raiders stunt jacket, and it did indeed have the side entry pockets, so we can probably make a safe assumption that the 'hero' jackets had them as well. "
• Scalloped flaps: flap should be 3 inches at the longest measurement and the sides of the flap should be approx 1.75 inches long BEFORE the radius of the bottom corner starts. Not happy with the shape of yours? try this maybe... viewtopic.php?t=27987
• Nickel snaps should be used for pocket flaps (Silver in color anyway)
• Side strap ranging from 7-8.75” length [7 seems popular], 1”width. This depends on the buckle configuration, and the 'look' you want. My suggestion is to get them long, and trim them to what you see on screen...
(Holt: EDIT)
(Agent5: 7-8.75" long; 5" w/ tri-glide buckle)
(Platon: 6.5" w/tri-glide buckle)
X-BOX (or K-box) stitching pattern for straps, double stitched.
[one opinion] top of strap should line through with lowest tip of pocket flap which (if you use these pocket measurements) would put the top of the strap at 6 inches up from the bottom of the jacket - measured from the same part where the pocket is located (the front panel), not the back panel.
• Strap buckles: SEEM to be the two-piece rectangular ones (not D-rings in any case) Threading the strap properly seems to replicate the look we see on scren pretty well... It has been shown as a "tri-glide" buckle also...
shows a tri-glide and
shows a dual rectangle
Here's a thread on the elusive buckles to further confuse the issue...
viewtopic.php?t=21401&highlight=jacket+specs
If you have D-rings and want to change them to boxes, read this:
viewtopic.php?t=23094
• Pleat depth average 1.375"
(Agent5 1.25")
Several others-1.5”) - this seems to be one of the few things most agree on... (photo below shows jacket with 1.5 pleats compared to shot of Ford between scenes- NOTE the sise of the jacket used for comparison is not known)


Michaelson's advice on properly adjusting the straps:
"I'll offer what I do, and my reasoning....with my arms down to my side, I have my wife (or in your case, somebody who understands what the heck you're doing ) loosen my straps until she sees the action pleats closed completely from top to bottom of my jacket. She then snugs the straps until she just sees the pleats starting to open at the top (which they will, as pulling the straps to tight causes the tension to move upward), then backs it off slightly. That's my set, as now anytime I move, the pleats will adjust to what I'm doing, but close back when my arms are back down to my sides. Any tighter than that, your pleats will constantly gap open at the top, and eventually sag outward from the strain of the to-snug side straps. Straps to tight also causes strain at the point that they're sewn on your jacket, as anytime you zip your jacket and move your arms around, instead of your action pleat moving with your 'actions', (that's why they're there!), your strap is pulling tighter and tighter against the seam of your jacket. It can (and in most cases WILL) finally cause the threads to pop, creating a repair that could have been avoided. Bear in mind...your straps are there for adjustment of the pleats, and NOT as the side anchors of your jacket! They're strong, but not THAT strong."
• Arm seam should be 1” BELOW the yoke seam, OR raise yoke seam 1 inch higher. This depends on the maker and what they are willing to do. This is a major change, and may incur additrional cost...
• Back panel should extend all the way out to the arm seam
• One pocket on the left inside only (that much is agreed upon!)
(some say THIN leather facing [trim])
(some say no leather in here.)

This is a good photo. I cannot tell for sure if that is cloth or leather trim on that pocket myself... Tony Nowak recently replicated a screen-used jacket, and this is his inside pocket:
http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll30 ... Pocket.jpg
Check this closely... It is a different jacket than the one Mr. Nowak copied, but has the same pocket design. My vote is this is the "Screen Accurate" inside pocket, because it is the only inside pocket we see on screen!

• underarm gussets: Some of the original Raiders jackets had underarm gussets and some didn't. It is assumed some of this was determined by whatever scene was being filmed and what they needed the jacket to be able to do for any particular scene, such as stunts [also could be simple lot differences as detailed on the main page]. It sems there is only evidence of a 1-piece gusset being used as can be seen in the film. However, for film accuracy you're interested in then a small, 1-piece gusset or no gusset will do. Also, read this: viewtopic.php?t=8268
And also this, From Peter, who made the jackets used in Raiders:
"I can confirm that the gussets in the Indy films were all of two piece contruction, I can also confirm that some of the jackets had gussets and some did not which is why it confuses and causes controversy.
One must remmber that the jacket seen in the films was not one jacket but several. It was only partway through the first film that we were asked to provide extra jackets with gussets for the fight sceenes but as a film is shot out of sequence jackets with and without gussets keep reappearing.
All the stunt mens jackets had gussets whilst most of Harrison Ford's did not. Without doubt when making the film the continuety dept never envisaged that 20+ years later they would be so well scrutinised. Especially H.F's arm pits
Hope that helps a little
Cheers
Peter"
• Jacket length: read this. All of it... viewtopic.php?t=22195
Make sure the fit is right for you, because you are not Harrison Ford in 1980 (and if you are, my apologies!)
• Making the jacket look "used": Many people like the rugged look of Indy's jacket- it looks well worn and 'lived-in'. there are several techniques for this, as well as letting time do it's thing naturally. read this, and do furter investigation yourself as well... viewtopic.php?t=30608
viewtopic.php?t=30682
viewtopic.php?t=26338
viewtopic.php?t=28173
viewtopic.php?t=28023
viewtopic.php?t=27835
Collar shaping...
viewtopic.php?t=24676

PS I also wanted to mention that I personally scaled up the pocket size as the jacket size increased. Anyone other than a size 40 (if we agree that is Ford's size in '81) should consider scaling some details on their jacket. From 40-42 is 5%, so I scalled up 5% on the pocket dimentions for my personal jacket ordered in size 42 to keep the look right...

Here's a bit Playton did to scale up the pocket size and placement for a size 48 and 52 jacket...
viewtopic.php?t=28696
viewtopic.php?t=31012

JAcket Specification post (by originator). Manufacturer names removed, unless necessary to explaining the detail in question...


PLATON:
Size 40R
Dark Lamb
80s fit
Cotton lining
5 gauge alluminum zipper (which I supplied)
Zipper extends all the way to the bottom of the jacket
No leather facing on the zipper
Storm flap 1 1/2 inches wide and rounded top corner
Leather collar stand
Standard collar
Pockets 7 x 6 1/2 inches
Scalloped pocket flap
Side strap length 7 inches sewn with x-box pattern
Two piece rectangular buckles
Pleat depth 1 1/2 inches
Yoke seam 1 inch higher than arm seam
Inside "piped" pocket (slit/less [no] leather) left side
No gussets



Agent5:
Over the years there has been much debate. I say, the debate is over and has been for some time. We've just never seen anyone do the research fully and present it all here. That is my intention.

1. Leather- Authentic brown lambskin leather.
2. Pattern- 919 (Chris King/80's/thinner) pattern.
3. Lining- Cotton Silesia lining / body and sleeves.
4. Zipper- 5 gauge aluminum zipper with small zipper pull that extends to the bottom of the jacket.
5. NO leather facing on the zipper.
6. Storm Flap- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) width; ROUNDED top corner.
7. Leather collar stand.
8. Collar- 2.75 inches (7cm) on the tips, tapering down to 2.5 inches (6.4cm) [at center?]. The left collar should also extend to the midway point of the top of the storm flap, or .75 inches (1.9cm) from the edge of the flap.
9. Right Pocket- 1.5 inches (3.8cm) from the zipper seam (edge of jacket).
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket (including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
Scalloped pocket flap.
Pocket flap length in middle o f flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.
10. Left Pocket- 1 inch (2.5cm) from storm flap.
2 inches (5.1cm) from bottom.
Width of pocket: 6.25 inches (16cm).
Length of pocket (including pocket flap) :7.5 inches. (19.1cm).
Scalloped pocket flap.
Pocket flap length in middle of flap, 2.75" (7cm)
Aluminum or nickel snap.
11. Side Strap- Legnth : 8.75 inches (22.3cm)
Width : 1 inch (2.5cm)
Side straps sewn with X pattern AND box pattern, double stitched.
12. Side strap buckles- BLACK OR GUNMETAL rectangular 2 piece rings.
13. Side vent stitch- NO stitch holding the side vents closed.
14. Pleat depth- 1.25 inches (3.2cm).
15. Yoke seam- The arm seam should be 1 inch (2.5cm) BELOW the yoke seam.
16. Back panel- The back panel should extend all the way out to the sleeve seam.
17. Inside pocket- Left side, slit (less leather) pocket.
18. Underarm Gussets- 1 piece (small) underarm gussets, or no gussets at all.

Photos to reinforce specifications above can be found here:
http://filmjackets.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6

As already stated, [many changes have been made with vendor patterns] over the years. Most of them at the request of the consumer, basically us.

Here goes.

1. Leather - For screen accuracy, I feel you need the thinnest and grainiest leather [your chosen maker] can source. Many people comment on how light it looks comparred to what we see on the screen, but if you distress is properly, you can achieve the look as if Harrison Ford himself handed you his hero jacket.

2. Pattern - The original patterns that were used by leather Concessionaries to make the original Raiders of the Lost Ark jacket were refered to as the '919' pattern and were tailored to fit Fords thin frame.

3. Lining - [It] has [been] stated that the entire Raiders jacket was lined with Cotton but over the years [vendors] began using satin as an alternative. Customers found that sometimes their arms would get hung up on the cotton in the sleeves and that the satin let the arms slide through with ease. Although not screen accurate, a cotton body with satin sleeves has become [a popular compromise].

4. Zipper - The orignal zipper was made from aluminum and broke easily. [one vendor] began using an 8-gauge nickel zipper to get the silver color and did not extend the zipper all the way to the bottom of the jacket as it was in the film. The reason for this is if you move the zipper up a few inches from the bottom as they did, it would reduce stress and lessen the result of tearing the leather. I always thought the 8-gauge zipper teeth looked too thick when compared what was seen on the screen and when [one vendor] began production of the cotton Indy jacket they used a 5-gauge zipper, which has smaller teeth and to my eye is more screen accurate. In the end if you want the real deal you want 5-gauge aluminum.

5. Leather Facing - The original jacket had no leather facing along the zipper track. This is one thing that lead to the characteristic of the wavy zipper we see on the jacket in the film. [Many vendors] began adding a leather facing along the zipper track because some customers complained they kept getting their zippers stuck on the lining, which was the best and smartest decision from a technical standpoint. [Some vendors] will continue to take requests to leave it off.

6. Storm Flap - From years of combined research and from what [has been] attested to, the width of the storm flap has always been 1.5". One thing [some vendors] will do as a request is to round off the top corner of storm flap as it looked in the film on at least one of Fords hero jackets. The standard is a more squared corner, which from a professional point of view, is probably more correct.

7. Collar Stand - The original jacket most worn thoroughout the film clearly had a leather collar stand. There were some stunt jackets that definitely had a cotton collar stand but I can find no evidence that any of the hero jackets did.

8. Collar - One early complaint of [one vendor's offering] was the collar. Many thought it too big, sometimes over a width of 3". You can request any size collar you like but from our collected research a size of 2.75" at the tips rounding off to 2.5" looks better on a standard sized frame. If you are a larger person you may want to go with a 3" collar or maybe slighty larger. If the rest of the jacket gets sized up, the collar should too, to be kept in perspective. Another important screen accurate spec that is only done by request is to make sure the left collar extends to the midpoint of the top of the storm flap as seen in the film. As standard, [some vendors] keeps the collar fairly flush with the storm flap seam so you have to ask if you want it as it was on the original jacket.

9. Pockets - In 2002, Wested began using a standard pocket size of 8.25" by 6.75" based off of vhs caps from a customer. I've found that on an average frame these specs are much too big. At 5'10", I asked that my pockets be at a size of 7.5" by 6.25" and that seems to make a big difference. If you are over 6' tall you should most likely go with the larger pocket size so that they are in proper perspective with a larger sized jacket. There are also more and less scalloped pocket flaps in the film, so thats all up to personal preference.

10. Side Strap - The original strap [from one vendor] was at a good, long length and at some point a change in the side strap hardware reduced the length of the strap. Based on years of collected research the width of the strap is considered to be 1". Since the strap is barely seen on film and when it is it's never loose, we don't know the exact length. Later on after the discovery of the rectangular black buckles I moved the length of the strap on my jacket back to the original, 8.75". Another thing to note is that with the way the side strap is configured it will face forward when put through the buckles. In order for it to be as we think it was on the film jacket was to take the leftover strap and force it back through the back buckle, thus leaving the strap facing backwards. That reinforcement makes it much tighter and much less likely to come loose.

11. Side Strap Buckle - Based on info from a screen used stunt jacket and the caps from the dvd's, it was evident that the side strap hardware were four (2 on each side) black or gunmetal gray rectangular buckles. The stunt jacket also had silver buckles painted black. That's all up to you to do that.

12. Side Vent Stitch - The side vents on the original Raiders jacket open up with ease which is one of the telling characteristics of that jacket. At some point (maybe from the start) and most likely for technical reasons, [one vendor] began putting a stitch at the top of the vent to help keep them closed. If you want the vent to open as it did in the film, ask that they NOT stitch the side vent up.

13. Pleat Depth - The orignal pleat depth of the Raiders jacket was shallow. Because the jackets used in the film were brand new the pleats stayed flat. When yo u wear a [Raiders Jacket] for a while, some of the pleats start to become slightly wavy. This caused [one vendor] to deepen the pleat depth up to 3" and later adding elastic under the lining to help keep the pleats closed. I've found that there were different sizes of pleat depths on the original jacket but the two you'd want to stick with are 1.25" or 1.5", which is what my original Raiders jacket made in 1999 had and they reflect the look of the original jacket well.

14. Yoke Seam - The original jackets had the yoke seam around 1" above the arm seam as can be seen in many frames of the film. The yoke are in general appears to be smaller than in the sequel jackets but [many vendors] will not make the yoke smaller as they've been asked to do so several times. If I recall, it had something to do with modifying the existing pattern. This would also extend the length of the back panel as well, but instead I believe what [some vendors do] is move the arm seam down so that it is below the yoke seam and gives it the look as in the film.

15. Back Panel - You can clearly see in any frame of Raiders where the back of the jacket is exposed that the back panel ends right at the arm seam. Early jackets had the back panel ending 1" off of the arm seam, which actually helped keep the action pleats flatter. But, it didn't take long before fans asked that their jackets now come with the back panel extending all the way to the arm seam, or as close as possible, just as can be seen plainly in the film.

16. Inside Pocket - We know for a fact that there was only one, left, inside 'slit' pocket in the original Raiders jacket with a very minimal facing. At some point [one vendor] started adding more than just the small slit of leather and added a much larger facing, which effected the drape of the jacket.

17. Underarm Gussets - Some of the original Raiders jackets had underarm gussets and some didn't. I assume some of this was determined by whatever scene was being filmed and what they needed the jacket to be able to do for any particular scene, such as stunts. I can only find evidence of a 1-piece gusset being used as can be seen in the film. However, if it's film accuracy you're interested in then a small, 1-piece gusset or no gusset will do.

Chris_King:
(Pocket Specs until more comes in)



Rom Hunter:
Here's mine (based on a size 40):

• Raiders style
• Authentic Brown lambskin
• Standard cut
• Cotton Silesia lining for body, pockets AND sleeves
• 5 gauge NICKEL zipper with small zipper pull that extends TO THE BOTTOM of the jacket
• NO leather facing on zipper
• Storm flap should be 1.5” width with ROUNDED top corner
• Standard Raiders collar ending HALFWAY between the zipper and the storm flap
• Pockets 7.25” x 6.5” with SCALLOPED flaps and nickel snaps
• Side strap length 7”, width 1” with X-BOX pattern, DOUBLE stitched
• Two piece BLACK RECTANGULAR buckles
• Pleat depth should be 1.5”
• NO side vent stitches and NO elastic in the back
• Arm seam should be 1” BELOW the yoke seam
• Back panel should extend ALL THE WAY OUT TO THE ARM SEAM
• ONE zipper-less, less leather SLIT (not piped!) pocket ON THE LEFT INSIDE ONLY
• NO gussets

CM (on pocket dimensions and flap dimensions)

You see, I think 8 inches is probably okay in a 42. If the flap is decently made - at least 3 inches deep, with a good shape, that 8 inches actually looks smaller.

How do I know this? I have a Wested and a G&B. Pockets on both jackets are almost the same. The Wested flaps are small but wide. The pocket looks huge. The G&B flap is cut narrow and deep. The pockets look smaller.

This is a great idea Jim and long overdue.

Some additional input on pocket placement (based on my study of the jacket in the opening scenes - studio set version, not the location shots):

1. Pocket on storm flap side should be positioned 1 inch from storm flap stitching and I personally think the bottom of the pocket should be positioned 1.75 inches up from the bottom edge of the jacket.

2. I think the overall size is 7.25 inches tall x 6.5 inches wide.

3. Pocket flap should be 3 inches at the longest measurement and the sides of the flap should be approx 1.75 inches long BEFORE the radius of the bottom corner starts.

4. Top of strap should line through with lowest tip of pocket flap which (if you use my pocket measurements) would put the top of the strap at 6 inches up from the bottom of the jacket - measured from the same part where the pocket is located, not the back panel.

Chris

Excellent! I will clarify this later in the main post...

Kep it doming!

Colour? ;-)

Grey?

Something else that occured to me just now is pocket placement relative to the jacket bottom... I did not think about this, but as the pocket scales up, the space around it should also scale up (I think) so it may be further from the storm flap stitching as well as further up from the botom of the jacket.

This second point is most important if you are have a "tall" version made as I did... Mine might look goofy now...

But, hopefully the next one will be beter!

Valid points Jim but it will be difficult to determine when you need to start changing those proportions.

For the measurements listed in your first post, I think you should stick to the measurements that we've determined from studying photos / screen caps of Ford's size 40 jacket.

Chris

J!m wrote:Something else that occured to me just now is pocket placement relative to the jacket bottom... I did not think about this, but as the pocket scales up, the space around it should also scale up (I think) so it may be further from the storm flap stitching as well as further up from the botom of the jacket.

This second point is most important if you are have a "tall" version made as I did... Mine might look goofy now...

But, hopefully the next one will be beter!

Point taken. ;-)

More of a "disclamer" I think, for those who adhere to these dimentions absolutely and have a size 48 tall/long jacket and wonder why they don't look like what they see on screen...

I leave it to the individual to determine if they should move the pockets for example, or not...

Fantastic idea. I wish I would have had this information 6 months ago.

The info is here- you just have to dig (A LOT) and sift through the details that are important to you.

This is why the pockets (for example) have been averaged fro three opinions of the size...

I have my custom jacket completed already, so I'm in the same boat... I think it was pretty close, based on my research I'm doing for this thread.

Yeah I know the info is hear and it it all can found by "digging" but having it all in one place for a quick reference is huge and would greatly cut down on redundant threads.

Something you may want to add is some of these specs are standard now FOR WESTED.

scot2525 wrote:Something you may want to add is some of these specs are standard now and clarify what only should be modifications.

But that depends greatly on who you are ordering from... ;-)

I just want the details here in one place- anyone could then confirm with the maker of their choosing to see if they "measure up" so to speak...

Not to be a wet blanket, but this has been done several times, and they were taken down by request of the vendor(s) as they could not meet the requirements being sent them as stated in the posted specs.

Folks were using the lists like a buffet, and due to the laundry list orders being sent in based on those posts, a couple vendors removed their custom offerings. It was more trouble than it was worth.

It was also pointed out that a lot of the information was subjective, as one person sees one thing, and another something completely different.

THAT'S why you you don't see this type thread 'stickied' in the jacket section.

All that said, carry on.

Regards! Michaelson

I edited my post accordingly J!M I wasn't thinking about Todd and Tony making custom jackets when I typed it.

Michaelson that actually answers a question I have always wondered. I thought it should be a "no brainer" that this information be easily found at the top of the jacket thread just to help cut down on the redundant threads about what they should order for their jacket. I still think this is a good idea and should reamain and let each vendor tell you what they will or will not do for custom jackets.

Yep. We've been handling this 'rodeo' for a LOT of years, so sometimes the assumption of something so elementary having 'never been done before' isn't exactly correct. ;-)

There's method behind the madness more often than not.

Regards! Michaelson

Hmmm... I can certainly see how that might become a problem.

My idea was to continue to update the top portion until we (collectively) agree that the specs were (as far as we can) DONE. Then vendors could paruse these specs, and offer one model (or not) with these specs- take them or leave them. Sort of like what one vendor is doing, but he does not offer tall sizes in his (really nice) OTR offering, and you have to go custom from him, which may be cost prohibitive....

So, I hear you, and if this is a problem, I will let it wither and die. I just know that I and others spend alot of time to dig out these details (all based on opinions of course) and choose to agree or disagree with them- which is perfectly fine.

Honestly, if you look at the three dimentions for pocket size in the original post for example, there really is not a lot of difference amoung us. With the blue-ray DVDs available, it will become more and more scrutinized ove time...

It was a crazy idea I suppose, but like the ToD replica (based on the original) by one vendor, once the specs are more or less 'nailed down' most perople (myself included) would be happy to NOT make a laundry list and just be able to say: Give me the COW SA Raiders in size XYZ please...

No reason at all to let it die.

Just be sure that everyone understands this will never be a 'be all/do all list' that everyone hopes it will be. They never are, but it gives folks things to think about as they prepare to order a jacket.

We just ask that you don't use this information to create an impossible list of specifications that may drive yet another vendor to drop their custom line.

Regards! Michaelson

"collective agreement"

if we had that, COW would have withered and died long ago.......

sorry, some of _ is rubbing off on me in my old age

What might be nice is if someone hosted this info off-site, so the hands are kept clean here but the info would be accessible were a new member to ask.

I have a raiders jacket made for me now.its a huge order made from my own work.a jacket that is mostly about 50-60% my own research and the rest from other members research,which I agree with...

if everything will go my way on this one,and I really think it will,casue I have gottent he OK from Peter to do a jacket with all my demands on it,then I will get the longer collar that has been so very wanted from westeds jackets all these years. Peter wanted my total collar info to do this.he even stopped the jacket from being made just to wait on my final collar specs.


today we have chris-kings specs, PLATON.agent5 and now maby a whole new set of specs from me.(Holt raiders)

so as Michaelson says...one person see's the jacket as he see's it and others,like myself see it in a whole different way.....so I dont think there is an answer to do a jacket like this.you just have to pick out your favorite specs to do a jacket like what you find is SA...

Holt

Some of it really depends on the size of the person getting it. My specs were for a person my size.

For what it's worth, here's a drawing that I did which shows my pocket specs.



Chris

Holt,

I honestly think the longer collar is purely due to Ford's posture. I've seen several photos of Ford recently (he's wearing his "real" clothes). In those pics the right side of the collar (his right) was always lower down than the other side. His posture must be such that it forces a lot of the clothes he wears to do this. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Chris

Indiana Holt wrote: I have gottent he OK from Peter to do a jacket with all my demands on it,then I will get the longer collar that has been so very wanted from westeds jackets all these years. Peter wanted my total collar info to do this.he even stopped the jacket from being made just to wait on my final collar specs.

Holt

yeah could be ..but again.we see things with different eyes.to me the collar looked like it was much longer then a normal wested collar.

I tried ordering a "longer collar" but it's the only thing of my made-to-specs jacket that didn't come out any different from the normal ones.
Anyway I remember a trick to make the collar "longer" which a former member of COW pulled out successifully. I still have to try it though.

In those scenes where the collar appears longer the jacket also looks more baggy... perhaps it was a few sizes larger therefore a longer collar. Not sure if this can be confirmed though. Just a wild guess.

Concerning the sticky thread... well, Michaelson already answered properly.

I ont think you can pull it longer.you have to pull the collarstand to make it longer,and that would be very hard or it could even destraoy the whole look.

what Peter need to do is to cut the neck opening deeper making the collarstand drop more to the front. Gemma sais they would do it...so I am really hoping I will get it.

When I asked it, the request wasn't accepted but Peter did make me a different collar. I wish you good luck and hope to see some "raiders collars" soon enough from Wested!

Holt, the trick that this former member (Aeris_Canon) did was a very good one ;-)
I might try it in these days and post some pictures.

[Anyway with "pulled out" I meant the trick, not the collar]

Chris_King wrote:For what it's worth, here's a drawing that I did which shows my pocket specs.



Chris

these specs are way too small on my 44 sized frame imo. i have used this size on one of my westeds and it does not look right.

as for the longer/bigger collar, that was item no. 1 on my upcoming revamp of #010/888.

todd's collar is closer than wested and expo thus far....imo.

cheers,


g

Indiana Holt wrote:yeah could be ..but again.we see things with different eyes.to me the collar looked like it was much longer then a normal wested collar.

You guys are also seeing a side-effect of an improperly made jacket. The OG Raiders jacket "rides" on top of the shoulders.

I just want what i seen on screen.it is just something so special about that collar.makes the jacket so much cooler.IMO

ain't it though? i think the collar is one of the main cool-factors to the jacket. it looks very 80's to me. on my revision of the TN collar, i asked tony to ensure that the collar sits below the shirt collar as you see in the pics.....size accordingly please.

TN's current design, my shirt collar sits below the jacket collar in its natural state. if i pull the jacket up high on my shoulders, the collars will line up. i wanted to get alot more collar out of the design on the second go-round so i just fired the above pictures to tony a week ago....no dimensions or anything. i'm looking forward to see what he cooks up.

This is great for whenever I order a Wested Raiders, thanks all!

"And here we GO!"

Michaelson was right.

There is some great information flowing here- thanks to all who are contributing!

I have been careful to not mentoion vendors by name; others have not been so careful.

The point of this thread is not to say "send this list to (insert favorite vendor here) and a Raider's jacket will be excreeted the other end."

The idea is to give some background, a base if you will, to those doing the research (vendors included) who can then "Take it or leave it" as to wheather they choose to adapt these observations to their offerings or not.

Again I draw attention to pocket dimentions in the opening post. I have an average (which will be changed again) as well as the source of the data going into that average. This way, people can see just how close we really are to one another, and with enough data, the average of what we al see on screen will be recorded., and likely be VERY close to the actual dimentions that seem to be so elusive...

Some vendors are happy to build a 'true' custom, where every specification is open to 'refinement' (this normally comes with a substantial cost many are not willing to pay); others are not. That is fine. I went through this with my Schott, where the standard long size was not long enough in the sleve to cover my wrists while riding; so I had to pay for a complete new patern to be made, even though this was an off the rack jacket. The pattern was destroyed after my jacket was made, so the next guy who wants that same specification is out of luck and has to pay for another new patern to be made.

So, I will not endorce one vendor over another, and ask that people posting here also do the same. As I am not a moderator, I cannot enforce these guidelines for this particular thread. I am moderator on other unrelated forums, and understand there has to be a balance between vendor and/or forum sponsor favoritism, and the freedom to openly discuss things such as this...

In the end, people vote with their wallets; that will never change.

So, let the discussions continue...

Indiana Holt wrote:I have a raiders jacket made for me now.its a huge order made from my own work.a jacket that is mostly about 50-60% my own research and the rest from other members research,which I agree with...

if everything will go my way on this one,and I really think it will,casue I have gottent he OK from Peter to do a jacket with all my demands on it,then I will get the longer collar that has been so very wanted from westeds jackets all these years. Peter wanted my total collar info to do this.he even stopped the jacket from being made just to wait on my final collar specs.


today we have chris-kings specs(I think) PLATON.agent5 and now maby a whole new set of specs from me.(Holt raiders)

so as Michaelson says...one person see's the jacket as he see's it and others,like myself see it in a whole different way.....so I dont think there is an answer to do a jacket like this.you just have to pick out your favorite specs to do a jacket like what you find is SA...

Holt

If you wouldn't mind, please post, or PM to me to add to the second post, you list of demands so to speak.

As we all know, some details are more important than others to people and their perception of how the jacket will look. Also the size you ordered, so the (for example) pocket dimentions can be scaled up or down to the "standard" of size 40.

Thanks in advance! I am sure this list will be appreciated and valued in this thread...

agent5 wrote:Some of it really depends on the size of the person getting it. My specs were for a person my size.

I thought I was clear on that- a person has to make adjustments if they are larger/smaller than a size 40.

What is the size you ordered? I can make the adjustments to your pocket dimentions in the original post for accuracy's sake...

Thanks for the input and clarification! This detail is exactly the sort of thing that can be overlooked when doing research like this. "So-and-so's pockets look great on him, but are too (big or small or whatever) on me!" The thing we must keep in mind is the scaling. If you have the exact size and shape jacket pocket as Ford did, but don't have the exact size and shap as Ford's body, it will look 'wrong' even thought it is perfect...

J!m wrote:

Indiana Holt wrote:I have a raiders jacket made for me now.its a huge order made from my own work.a jacket that is mostly about 50-60% my own research and the rest from other members research,which I agree with...

if everything will go my way on this one,and I really think it will,casue I have gottent he OK from Peter to do a jacket with all my demands on it,then I will get the longer collar that has been so very wanted from westeds jackets all these years. Peter wanted my total collar info to do this.he even stopped the jacket from being made just to wait on my final collar specs.


today we have chris-kings specs(I think) PLATON.agent5 and now maby a whole new set of specs from me.(Holt raiders)

so as Michaelson says...one person see's the jacket as he see's it and others,like myself see it in a whole different way.....so I dont think there is an answer to do a jacket like this.you just have to pick out your favorite specs to do a jacket like what you find is SA...

Holt

If you wouldn't mind, please post, or PM to me to add to the second post, you list of demands so to speak.

As we all know, some details are more important than others to people and their perception of how the jacket will look. Also the size you ordered, so the (for example) pocket dimentions can be scaled up or down to the "standard" of size 40.

Thanks in advance! I am sure this list will be appreciated and valued in this thread...

w'll see...I have not gotten the jacket yet.it is still in the works.first I need to measure the whole jacket down before I decide to go out with some of my specs.

That is a very reasonable stance, Holt. You are wise beyond your years...

Please do PM it to me once you have it sorted out, and I will place it into the second post hee with others complete spec lists.

And for future posters (and those who have already posted):

Please refrain from mentioning vendor names when posting, if at all posible! The more 'bias' this thrad contains, the less lifetime it will have on the board!

Let's keep it a resource of dimentions that will lead to an average and data collection point that can be referred to in the future...

Good idea this thread. Having a series of specs in one place collected together with some background to each is something many of us could use. The fact that the specs are various personal views does nothing to make them less useful. The collected wisdom of this site is a great thing.


Also, if it was a sticky all new memebers would have a place to start without having to search or ask the same questions all the time.

Excellent work, J!m.

Three points I would like to bring in:

The (left side only!) inside pocket is SLIT and not PIPED.
There's a slight difference between those two types.

Also, there's still some discussion going on about 80's fit and Standard cut.
(IMO it's something in between).

Finally, the side strap buckles.
Some say it's a black metal triglide, some say it's two black metal rectangular loops.

Thanks forthe input.

I thought I covered the inside pocket, but honestly I've been trooling over S O O O O many threads in all different locations (and evenm other forums) to get this all together my head is spinning.

That's whaty I endeavored to do this, but, and I understand why, it appears it will not be made a sticky post, and will require bumping and or reference to from the regular members.

I am trying to "sterilize" it, so it applies no matter who makes a jacket, but that is difficult sometimes...

I will have a look at the first post and try to get everything straight up there...

Rom Hunter wrote: Finally, the side strap buckles.
Some say it's a black metal triglide, some say it's two black metal rectangular loops.

Indeed.

Oh, if anyone know this, it's me now...

The trouble is, there were several jackets, repaired on set several times, and it is quite likely that either the tri-glide or two rectangular rings or sewing (or super glue for that matter!) was done after the jackets were "broken" and went to wardrobe for repair...

I see the picture, and do not argue the point. With several jackets, we have to agree that several strap attachment and buckle methods were employeed during the filming. The is no ONE right answer for these questions, which is why I'm trying to get everything in one place- so people can make their own decisions on this.

I am not going to say "buy this because it's the best". No way! What I think is best may not be what you think is best.

BUT, armed with all the screen shots and the countless hours of research done by others and myself here, you can choose something that has the most important detail (to you) executed the best.

For many it's the pocket shape/placement. For others it's the colar shape. Others obsess over the zipper. And so it goes...

Wested's ROTLA Jacket Order form keeps changing on his website. How many of these details is Peter willing to make? Can someone please direct me to a defenition of ' 80's cut '

Jake

There are many threads like this in the different sub-forums. I don't think any of them should be stickies; I think the info needs to be pulled and put on the main site. We have a whole lot of stickies going on right now. For example, the bullwhip section has 9 stickies and 2 announcements. You have to scroll through a whole page of posts before you get to the latest discussions. It is all great info, but needs to get put in the main site. I really think if some of this stuff was moved, the main site would see more traffic by us.

Just a few thoughts.
Mike

That DEFINATELY will not happen...

A sticky is likely not going to happen either.

Speak up to the moderators, but they will tell you the same thing.

I agree that there should not be a ton of stickies in a catergory; however this information is too diverse to be placed on the main gear page...

Something like the acount from _'s interview with Mr. Ford might be a good thing for the main page however...

I just been bizy reading thru the thread.

I can say this.

on my 44 order I have them made the pockets about 6.75x7.75.I think those will be perfect for my jacket.
I took them the measurmenst of an of the rack jacket I have.
but I downscaled them abit.these were 7x8.25.a tad big.IMO

holt..........it doesn't look like you need that much more collar based on the pic above. you do need to crinkle up that zipper though ;-)

yeah I know.on this jacket the collar is bigger then it was on my HH raiders.I love it..

funny though...they are the same size..