Club Obi Wan

darthbish wrote:I certainly mean no disrespect here, but put a KotCS next to a Raiders Bash I'd go the Raiders everytime

eazybox wrote:

darthbish wrote:I certainly mean no disrespect here, but put a KotCS next to a Raiders Bash I'd go the Raiders everytime

Actually, Steve himself would probably agree with you on this. He just supplied the bash Bernie Pollack wanted for CS.

The Train Traveller hat in CS has a wider 2 7/8 inch brim and looks better, in my opinion. I wish they had used those dimensions, along with a Raiders crease, throughout the film, although as Dutch pointed out at least one wider brimmed brown hat got in by mistake. But Ford is older now, and a more conservative look does seem appropriate.

Jack

Dutch_jones wrote: Don't forget ! its not just steve ! Marc was part of the deal too ! actually it all started with Marc!

Michaelson wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote: Don't forget ! its not just steve ! Marc was part of the deal too ! actually it all started with Marc!

Uh, not so, Dutch, at least the 'who's on first' part.

Peter Botwright gave Bernie Pollack Steve Delk's name first, then Steve brought Marc into the deal. It started with Steve.

That needed to be cleared up.

Carry on. ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

Dutch_jones wrote:

Michaelson wrote:

Dutch_jones wrote: Don't forget ! its not just steve ! Marc was part of the deal too ! actually it all started with Marc!

Uh, not so, Dutch, at least the 'who's on first' part.

Peter Botwright gave Bernie Pollack Steve Delk's name first, then Steve brought Marc into the deal. It started with Steve.

That needed to be cleared up.

Carry on. ;-)

Regards! Michaelson

Here we go again.

Steve and Marc should be the only ones telling the tell and we all should stay out of it.

Thats is not the way it went:


A member of this board mentioned Marc's name to Peter when he told about being contacted by Bernie Pollack, and Bernie had asked Peter about the suppliers of the Original trilogy's hats. When Peter Told Bernie he thought they weren't there anymore ( Swales) He did not have an alternative for Bernie. The person (I will not mention who those involved will know who it is). Then told Peter have you told him about Marc?

Peter Brought Bernie in contact with Marc first. It was one of Marcs AB deluxes that arrived at Western Costumes shortly after that.( G-mann's Hat) And then for ease ( because of the big time difference) Steve had all the contact with Bernie. That needed to be clear, this can be verified by Marc/Steve.

morethanatimelord wrote:yeah, i mean if this is steve and marc`s business then whats it got to do with the rest of us?

Of course I can't tell what was discussed between the member and Peter, but here's how things happened:

whipwarrior wrote:

Of course I can't tell what was discussed between the member and Peter, but here's how things happened:

This reminds me of the ending of the movie Clue.

It could have happened THIS way.

But here's what REALLY happened.

whipwarrior wrote: This reminds me of the ending of the movie Clue.

BoilermakerJones wrote:

whipwarrior wrote: This reminds me of the ending of the movie Clue.

Being old enough, I saw Clue in the theater. I believe there were three possible endings, but each theater randomly got a different last reel. It was the luck of the draw which you saw.

I haven't seen it on video, but I assume from what you said that they included all the endings when they made the video.

Sorry for the off topic.

Matt

Marc wrote:Of course I can't tell what was discussed between the member and Peter, but here's how things happened:

Bernie contacted Peter
A member recommended mentioning me towards Bernie
Peter recommended us (Steve AND me) to Bernie
Bernie called me up next day (1st. of May 2007) and I spoke to him about US and said WE whenever I was talking about Adventurebilt.
Bernie asked for a sample, which was supplied by G-Mann
I called up Steve and told him about the phone call I had had with Bernie
Bernie then called up Steve and asked for a sample from him as well
Steve and I made a Gentlemen aggreement, that if either one of us would get THE order, the other one would make 50% of the hats no matter what
Both of us continued to send in different samples
Bernie continued to call Steve and me, me and Steve and Steve and me again and that went on until Bernie said it would become to complicated to talk to two hatters from one and the same company and due to the time differences it would be easier to stay in touch with Steve.
The rest is history ;-)

Regards,

Marc

Marc wrote:Of course I can't tell what was discussed between the member and Peter, but here's how things happened:

Bernie contacted Peter
A member recommended mentioning me towards Bernie
Peter recommended us (Steve AND me) to Bernie
Bernie called me up next day (1st. of May 2007) and I spoke to him about US and said WE whenever I was talking about Adventurebilt.
Bernie asked for a sample, which was supplied by G-Mann
I called up Steve and told him about the phone call I had had with Bernie
Bernie then called up Steve and asked for a sample from him as well
Steve and I made a Gentlemen aggreement, that if either one of us would get THE order, the other one would make 50% of the hats no matter what
Both of us continued to send in different samples
Bernie continued to call Steve and me, me and Steve and Steve and me again and that went on until Bernie said it would become to complicated to talk to two hatters from one and the same company and due to the time differences it would be easier to stay in touch with Steve.
The rest is history ;-)

Regards,

Marc

Interesting. So, Marc, if I'm reading what you've written above, you're saying you were responible for bringing Steve in. Right? Please clarify.

It is very possible that Marc tried to call Steve first but he reached me first.

I just wanted to make sure I understood how this was being told to folks by Marc.

Fedora wrote:

Oh gosh yeah... we both tried so hard to get a turned Raiders Fedora in there. Almost to the point where the customer got sick of it

That's the truth. Both of us were really pushing the Raiders hat, but it just was not meant to be. So we made it a hybrid. Raiders/TLC. We were told he was not looking for a tapered hat, as many of the other samples from others were too tapered. Our straight sided block was what they were after. Glad we just happen to have it!! Not only did we have it, but we had already been using it for a few years. I don't want to give US too much credit here, as the costumer used us to create the hat they wanted. And they were nit picking every detail, just as they should have done. What helped us, was we were gearheads, and knew exactly what they were talking about when they would mention something pertaining to the final look. Face it, other hatters make many different kinds of hats, but only Marc and I specialize in Indy's fedora. That sure made it easier for us. Since we knew the films by heart, all they had to do was mention a certain scene from a certain Indy film, and we did not have to run to put the dvd in to see what they were talking about. We already knew, instantly. Some would call that a sickness. Yeah, no doubt it really helped that we really had studied this hat, and for years. All we had to do was to remember that at COW, every nuance had been talked about and discussed ad nauseum. It is very fitting that the site that is devoted to Indy's gear was instrumental in getting a good hat on Indy's head for his final adventure, almost 30 years after the first hat came on the scene. We paid homeage to Deborah, the original hat designer as no one could ever top her Raiders fedora that started all of this. With each film came a new costumer, an in my opinion, the first costumer and the last costumer presented the best looking hats, but I am predjudiced for good reason towards the last hat. I think once you guys get to see this hat in the whole film, you will see our homeage to Deborah along with some of the new costumers visions of Indy's fedora. The current costumer really did sweat bullets over the hat and other gear items, as he was as difficult to please as any other hat anal Indy fan. He understood just how important this hat was, more so than I think some of the other costumers felt when they were involved, going by what some of the other hats looked like from them.

There is something that I can say without getting into trouble. We had 5 or 6 samples out there that we had made in Ford's size. (not a true 7 1/4 hat size by the way) and the way the final dimensions were chosen was through the use of a costume test. Steven filmed Harrison in the various hats of ours and then picked the one he wanted from viewing the dailies of the film test. So, they picked the hat by HOW it appeared on screen. This was a total surprise to me(don't know if Marc was surprised), as I thought they would just put it on him and say ok, or not. But what do I know about filmmaking? Zip. nit, nothing. These hats had various dimensions of brim widths and crown heights. And if I understand it correctly, Steven actually picked which hat he wanted, that the costumer supplied him with. And once the right hat was decided upon, our jobs became almost stress free, and the fun started. Until that time, we were both stressed out with worry. Would our hats be good enough, was the order of the day back then in May. The suspense was killing us. Neither of us could sleep with the antiscipation of finding out if we got this gig. Little did we know at that time that they stopped looking when they got in our samples. We did not know several other hatters had already been looked at but they could not give them what the costumer was after. We just thought we were one company among many who were in the running. One hatter was even given a month to come up with the hat. He failed.

The one person who was instrumental in getting us in the front door was our own Peter Botright. Without Peter directing them to us, this would have never happened. So, Marc and I owe Peter a debt we can never repay. Although we showed him our appreciation in the form of a nice bottle of liquid courage, which turned out to be one of his favorites. So I will say thank you Peter, while knowing just a thank you does not seem to be enough for what he did for us. We will forever be in his debt for doing us such a tremendous favor!!! He gave us the chance to show them what we could do.


I want to go ahead and get another thing out there that is a personal thing between Marc and I, but which may come up at some point in time. We both sent hats, and because of Marc's distance from LA, he had Gmann send a hat Marc had just made for him, to the costumer. I just stayed up all night and made a sample and overnighted it the next day. So, he got Gmann's Deluxe one day,(I think Gmann actually got to talk to the costumer later on) and mine the next. At first, this AB deal was confusing to the costumer. Two hats, both with the AB name, but one from Germany and one from Mississippi. Now this was early in the process and the costumer did not quite understand my and Marc's connection until later. Now, Marc and I had talked and we quickly agreed that if they chose his hat, he would allow me to make half of the order. IF they chose my hat, I would do the same thing for him. Afterall, we are friends and both of us are obsessed with this brown fedora, and I had even wanted Marc to help make my AB hats when I first started the AB line a few years ago. I even made Marc his first block, that he later improved upon. We have always been kindred spirits when it comes to the Raiders fedora. So, we had that agreement, that if we lucked up and got his deal, we would include the other. That is just the way that we are.

So Marc sent his Raiders blocked hat, and I sent my original Raiders block that I use on my Raider fedoras, but then I also sent my new revised Raiders block when the costumer asked for a another sample, and I don't recall why, but I felt that perhaps they might need to see another blockshape, and instead of sending my old Raiders block, I sent a hat made from the new one that I had recently revised, but was not using because everyone here seemed to prefer the older one.(what a run on sentence,but I am in a hurry so I will let it stay) When the hat was chosen by Steven from the film test, it ended up being my new Raiders blockshape!! So, Marc had to have it copied and had to do it fast. But never underestimate the determination of Marc Kitter!! It cost him 800 bucks for two hat blocks to be made by his blockmaker, and I think the blockmaker worked all weekend to do it for Marc!! I wish my blockmaker was like that!! So, the new revised Raiders block was chosen, and since it came from me, I was chosen to be the one that the costumer was to deal with. but he knew full well that we were a team. I think also the reason he chose me to talk to was, 1) I was easier to phone as I was in the States, and 2) it was less confusing for him to deal with just one person. Makes sense.

So although I actually got the contract, that is on paper only. WE got the contract is the reality of the situation. Marc made half of the hats for the film, and he sent them to me to style, because Bernie only wanted me to style the hats as clones. I had to use a ruler to do so. Not that Marc did not style his hats, but I just tweaked them if need be, to make them clones of my own hats I was making. Never before had the hatter actually styled the hats, but we did it on this film. Per their instructions of course. Since the hats HAD to be clones, I also tweaked Marc's bows so that his bow looked identical to my bows . That is how detail oriented the costumer was. And that is why, when you see these hats on film, neither me or Marc will be able to tell if I made the hat, or if he made the hat. But we know both of our hats were worn by Indy. We mixed up the sweats so that some of his hats had my sweat, and some of my hats had his sweat!! We did this so regardless of who you buy from, he or I, you will be getting the same hats that Indy wore regardless of which hatter you choose. Like I said, this was a team effort from the get-go. And long after I am gone, Marc Kitter will still be around to give the fans the genuine Crystal Skull fedora. I like that. The AB name will outlive me and Marc is young enough to be around for many, many years unlike myself. I think this is the great thing about two guys making the film hats, especially when one of the hatters ain't no Spring chicken. So, now everyone knows an important part of the story as it pertains to Adventurebilt hats. And I needed to set the record straight early on, as to avoid any confusion later on. Appreciate all the kind words. But as I said earlier, I still can't believe it.

Oh, I have come up with a new line to retort back to the "Indy comments" that people are apt to make when they see me wearing my brown fedora, once the film gets everyone's attention back to Indy. Now, I can just simply say, "heck, I made his hat, and I am advertising it!" Fedora

Hi Steve.Please contact me ASAP, you may get a call in the meantime from Bernie Pollock re Indy 4. I have given him your details. This is top secret so tell no one.
Cheers
Peter
Wested Leather
0044 1322 660654

Here's the email from Peter to me on April 30th.

Marc wrote:[...] at the Indygear summit in Hamburg [...]

Marc wrote:

Here's the email from Peter to me on April 30th.

And with that said, the last mystery on how we got the gig on making these hats is solved. Peter recomended BOTH from the get go and the rest is very well known.

Thanks my friend for chiming in!!!

Regards,

Marc

scot2525 wrote:That is one heckuva story and it appears that we don't have to worry about any "holes" being put into it down the road.