The "Maybe I'll get a Fed IV" Ribbon Question:

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:18 am

So, just as darthbish mentioned in the "Affordable Hat" thread... this seems like a pretty opportune time to order up a nice Hat from HatsDirect...
A beautiful hat from a Company with a reputation for EXCELLENT Customer Service?
No question about it.

HERE's my problem:
I REALLY don't like the bow on their ribbons, so ordering up one of these hats - for me - automatically means making plans to have the ribbon replaced.

Can anyone offer up some first-hand experience about this specific idea?

I'd like to get a nice new ribbon put on (I'm a big fan of the Adventurebilt, Penman, Jimmy Pierce family of ribbon style looks) but I'd DEFINITELY prefer to not put it on myself.

Can you recommend a ribbon? (good price/nice look)

Has anyone ordered from HatsDirect and then had their hat shipped DIRECTLY to another Hatter in order to have then re-work/bash/re-ribbon (etc) their hat in order to save - a little - on Shipping? Any problems with that plan?

Anybody out there got a Fed IV with a replaced ribbon you'd like to show-off (As always, a photo or two would be: fine...just fine...) BIG help in fact.

Thanks,
Mitch

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:33 pm

i just went through this whole issue in sourcing ribbon. it is extremely difficult to find midnight/nigerian/blackish/extreeeeeeeeemely dark brown grosgrain ribbon. the closest you'll find is todd's costumes' replacement ribbon which i believe to have unbound edges (a petersham ribbon, not a grosgrain.......please correct me if i am wrong with that...mr. oak?). to get this ribbon made (a custom dye job), you'd have to spend thousands as the manufacturer only sells in bulk amounts.......minimum purchase would be for enough ribbon to span 20 football fields

there is an old post that stated AB will sell you their ribbon at $10/yard.

i luckiliy found some vintage dark brown grosgrain from some online antique shop...they had almost 7 yards left and i bought all of it.......from the pics i saw, the ribbon looked almost black (which is what you want). if you look at the indy ribbon on its own, you would say that it's black......until, of course, you put a black ribbon against it....then you'll see the colour variance.

now for ribbon work, i am sure you can do this yourself......if i can do it, you can do it. dalexs has a very nice tutorial to get you through it butt the thing is to get good at it....practice, practice, practice

go to your local craft store and buy some polyester grosgrain ribbon.....say 2 yards.....this is relatively cheap and you can use it for practice whilst following the tutorial (making the bow that is). once you've found the nice ribbon, you'll be a pro already. i've only done 3 or 4 ribbons myself but i know i'm getting better.

try it........it's not as hard as you think ;-)

Post by **Dalexs** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:45 pm

Sourcing a really dark brown ribbon has always been the hard part.
There are, however, a number of places that you buy dark brown ribbon.
http://www.schiffribbons.com/
Judith M.

I would buy what you need, use black rit dye and dye it.
Thats what I've always done and do now.

In a small pot of simmering dye, it takes about 15min to get the right color.

A few of the images on my site are custom dyed from Schriff.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:21 pm

You are correct. Getting the ribbon is hard and to get some company to dye you some the right color you would have to buy an amount that one handmade hatter would never need.

schiffribbons has brown ribbon but not dark enough.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:53 pm

There is a fabric paint called Setasilk which comes as a stain or as a solid colour. it will dye or completely cover nylon and polyester. Habidashers sell crossgrain ribbons in both these materials.
Setasilk doesn't need to be fixed by ironing if you won't be machine washing it. It can be mixed to just the tone you want and one could deliberately apply it a unevenly to get a faded/weathered effect.
Enigmata

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:06 pm

I don't believe that will work.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:17 pm

I'll give it a go and let you know soon

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:47 pm

enigmata_wood wrote:There is a fabric paint called Setasilk which comes as a stain or as a solid colour. it will dye or completely cover nylon and polyester. Habidashers sell crossgrain ribbons in both these materials.
Setasilk doesn't need to be fixed by ironing if you won't be machine washing it. It can be mixed to just the tone you want and one could deliberately apply it a unevenly to get a faded/weathered effect.
Enigmata

Does quoting myself make me an intellectual?
Anyway,
As promised I did a test. The colours you will see are not deep browns, just mid browns I had left over from another project.
I applied both tests with a soft brush to white polyester crossgrain ribbon.
The dye spreads really even and the opaque covers really well.
I heat-set it with a hairdryer. I scrubbed it really hard, it doesnt come off.
So there you go. All you need now is to buy an ochre or brown and a black, and mix the dark colour you want.
http://s498.photobucket.com/albums/rr34 ... yetest.jpg
this is a high res photo so click the Photobucket 'full size' button so you can see how the dye retains the weave.
I hope that helps.

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:38 pm

For years I've used dark brown RIT dye and have to tell you that it really darkens the ribbon nicely and leaves no shine to the ribbon. Just my opinion.

Best regards,
Indiana 7

whipitgood · Post by **whipitgood** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:47 pm

Baron Hats in Burbank, CA. has a very dark brown grosgrain. It almost looks black and is not the least bit shiny. I had it put on my HJ and I'm very pleased. I would actually like to compare it to the ribbon on AB's. They will not sell you the ribbon, but will include it in the $25 service fee for hat ribbon replacement. I'm not sure where you are located, but that is an option.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:06 pm

whipitgood wrote:Baron Hats in Burbank, CA. has a very dark brown grosgrain. It almost looks black and is not the least bit shiny. I had it put on my HJ and I'm very pleased. I would actually like to compare it to the ribbon on AB's. They will not sell you the ribbon, but will include it in the $25 service fee for hat ribbon replacement. I'm not sure where you are located, but that is an option.

they won't sell you the ribbon separately because they want to put it on themselves and then claim to have made the hat.....

.....sorry, that was cheap......but i found it amusing........

from what i've seen of their 'cliffhanger', it has a black ribbon no? that was one of the reasons that i never pulled the trigger on one of those a couple years back. if they do have the right colour ribbon, why didn't they use it on their indy hats back then?

whipitgood · Post by **whipitgood** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:33 pm

Indiana G wrote:
whipitgood wrote:Baron Hats in Burbank, CA. has a very dark brown grosgrain. It almost looks black and is not the least bit shiny. I had it put on my HJ and I'm very pleased. I would actually like to compare it to the ribbon on AB's. They will not sell you the ribbon, but will include it in the $25 service fee for hat ribbon replacement. I'm not sure where you are located, but that is an option.
they won't sell you the ribbon separately because they want to put it on themselves and then claim to have made the hat.....

.....sorry, that was cheap......but i found it amusing........

from what i've seen of their 'cliffhanger', it has a black ribbon no? that was one of the reasons that i never pulled the trigger on one of those a couple years back. if they do have the right colour ribbon, why didn't they use it on their indy hats back then?

If you go in thier shop, the 'cliffhanger' doesn't even have a black ribbon, it's medium/light brown. Also I believe the employees there are color blind. They have a good ribbon, but I had to dig through there stock to find it. You have to be very specific about how you want your ribbon put on as well. They screwed up my ribbon twice, so I decided to correct it myself.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:35 am

Federation ribbon is excellent. I couldn't ask for anything better, outside of the old Federation ribbon which was a little slinkier. If you don't like the bow shape, just take it apart and redo it.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:07 am

3thoubucks wrote:Federation ribbon is excellent. I couldn't ask for anything better, outside of the old Federation ribbon which was a little slinkier. If you don't like the bow shape, just take it apart and redo it.

You need to get out more. It's a good ribbon not great.

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:56 am

First of all, I just want to take a moment to say a big "Thanks!" to all of you who contributed their info (and opinions) on this issue... not only did it give me a lot to consider, but - as I always DO - I learned a LOT from reading these posts (I bet others who read them did too.)

BendingOak was kind enough to send me a pm that suggested a few other options as well but there was no denying that my - shall we call it "specific" - taste in ribbons & bows seemed to amount to a complicated road that was just a tiny bit more expensive than my need for this particular hat amounted to...

In fact, shortly after I changed my mind and sent Oak a pm (here's a portion of it):
"Despite the fact that the exchange rate makes for a pretty affordable hat from Akubra, I'm reconsidering the whole thing.
I had been saving up to make my NEXT hat one of Steve's Adventurebilts and the fact is, spending money right now on the Fed IV (a hat I'd "like" to have - and would simply get sooner than later) would take a big chunk out of my savings for my AB (the hat I "mustMustMUST" have, if you know what I mean - and I know you DO).
I don't even have the AB ordered yet and ONLY THEN does the real wait begin (and $420 U.S. is still a LONNNG way off!)
I think was just getting a little antsy to get my hands on a nice hat...
But, better to wait and get a real prize I guess, huh?"

That was a day or so ago and I fully intended to do a post telling you all that I wasn't technically asking the question anymore... but conversation was already in full-swing and I thought most of what was being said would probably STILL help others - especially the newer folks (either way, this was a pretty good example of how a question quickly "outgrew" the person who originally asked it.)

But again, thanks to all who contributed.

(And sorry that I kinda high-jacked the thread I started and turned it from being a question about "tweaking" a Fed IV (a GREAT hat that I know some of us DON'T feel needs tweaking) to a commentary of HOW COMPLETELY AWESOME (I think) the Adventurebilt is... and how BADLY I WANT ONE!

Still "Jonesin' for a Hat" I remain most sincerely your humble servant,
Mitch

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:47 pm

I think holding off for the AB is a good idea Mitch. If that is what you really want, save for it. Though $100 (with shipping for a Federation right now) is not bad at all for a quality fedora, that is a quarter of the cost of an AB. And if that is what you really want, and why wouldn't you, save it. You'll thank yourself in the end. Those Federations are looking quite attractive now, but I have to hold off for another Penman and another AB. Better to save for the real deal than something to tide you over, I think.

Dave

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:25 pm

BendingOak wrote:you need to get out more. It's a good ribbon not great.

I've seen quite a few ribbons, and I have 2 pre-Raiders HJs. I can't understand where you think Federation ribbon is lacking.

Post by **Dalexs** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:43 pm

3thoubucks wrote:
BendingOak wrote:you need to get out more. It's a good ribbon not great.
I've seen quite a few ribbons, and I have 2 pre-Raiders HJs. I can't understand where you think Federation ribbon is lacking.

Actually, while the color is spot on (at least the older stuff is) the ribbon itself is a bit on the lightweight side compared to some other stuff I have had in my possession (especially the vintage stuff I have.)

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:22 am

I said it was good ( better than most ) and I like the fed but it's not great.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:37 am

Dalexs wrote:
Actually, while the color is spot on (at least the older stuff is) the ribbon itself is a bit on the lightweight side compared to some other stuff I have had in my possession (especially the vintage stuff I have.)

I agree. The color is "spot on", and the color hasn't changed from the old stuff. I thought lightweight was good. Makes a bow that doesn't stand out too far. Since Fed 4 ribbon is very slightly heavier duty than the old stuff, maybe it's perfect.

It's weight falls in the middle of my 2 HJs, and is has as many ribbs a one, less than the other.