Club Obi Wan

It’s been pretty well chronicled that the hat used for the Hawaii filming of Raiders was brand new. This particular hat was not seen elsewhere in Raiders. It is a hat that nobody has replicated well. The crinkles in the dents of this hat come from a new, thin felted hat. The only current hat vendor to ever duplicate this was Optimo. Optimo makes expensive dress hats. You don’t hear much about Optimo anymore. Some would say that they are not worth the money. Regardless, they are the only hat maker to duplicate this effect. I came across these old (bad) pictures. Enjoy





http://images30.fotki.com/v478/photos/4 ... o16-vi.jpg
http://images26.fotki.com/v888/photos/4 ... o24-vi.jpg
http://images25.fotki.com/v903/photos/4 ... o30-vi.jpg
http://images112.fotki.com/v580/photos/ ... ts7-vi.jpg
http://images112.fotki.com/v579/photos/ ... ay5-vi.jpg
http://images112.fotki.com/v579/photos/ ... ay8-vi.jpg

ha ha! i just posted my opinion on "they don't make them like they use to" in the leather jacket section.....replying to your post

the AB blocks will give you the right shape but you're right, they're stock beaver won't give you that effect (maybe if you ask for extra pouncing and get the stiffener boiled out of it). i know what you are talking about as you can almost see and feel the texture of the fedora when he is being chased by the hovitos and trying to keep his hat on (where a big puff of dust comes off of it). the felt looks quite thin and seems to be held up with stiffener imo.

again, alot of consumers today want a good, tough hat....a thin felt wearing stiffener for protection is typically frowned upon......but there has to be a happy medium somewhere. i've never handled an optimo........maybe they're in that happy place?

Indiana G wrote:ha ha! i just posted my opinion on "they don't make them like they use to" in the leather jacket section.....replying to your post

the AB blocks will give you the right shape but you're right, they're stock beaver won't give you that effect (maybe if you ask for extra pouncing and get the stiffener boiled out of it). i know what you are talking about as you can almost see and feel the texture of the fedora when he is being chased by the hovitos and trying to keep his hat on (where a big puff of dust comes off of it). the felt looks quite thin and seems to be held up with stiffener imo.

again, alot of consumers today want a good, tough hat....a thin felt wearing stiffener for protection is typically frowned upon......but there has to be a happy medium somewhere. i've never handled an optimo........maybe they're in that happy place?

The stiffener is a key part of it. Even in a thin felted Optimo, those crinkles go away after the hat settles down and the stiffener wears away. Cheers

I purchased an Optiomo Indy in pecan and within a month i shelled out the cash for a second.
I have just got the second hat back after a well earned rebuild its actually better than when new.
To me the Optimo is the best raiders hat(s) ive owned ( and ive owned them all,Herby,PB,Akubra,Stetson,Mallory and AB)
It was Rundquist who put me onto them after his initial Pecan purchase (must be a million years ago now)
Ill get some pics up of my Indy brown up soon

[IMG]http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n155 ... G_2141.jpg[/IMG]

This has always been my favorite in the any of the films. Sad that we cannot really get that look with any of the offerings available. I can try with my Penman, but I agree that rabbit would probably be necessary.

Dave

I don't think the felt is as important as you think. It's easier to get with thin felt, and even more likely to happen by accident. But since that effect was an accident in the movie, the best way to get it on any felt is to luck your way into it. One of my new AB's actually insists on that effect, and my Akubra Campdraft (which shares the Federation felt) used to be that way. Might still be, but it's not mine anymore. So that's a stiff rabbit felt and a somewhat thick beaver felt that naturally did it.

Felt has texture, memory, and it "behaves." Let it behave the way it wants, and you may get something special.

As for Optimo, I think that with all of the other Indy options now available, they've fallen out of the COW spot light. I wouldn't bother getting an Indy hat from them at this point. However, I would love to have something else by them someday.

Chewbacca Jones wrote:I don't think the felt is as important as you think. It's easier to get with thin felt, and even more likely to happen by accident. But since that effect was an accident in the movie, the best way to get it on any felt is to luck your way into it. One of my new AB's actually insists on that effect, and my Akubra Campdraft (which shares the Federation felt) used to be that way. Might still be, but it's not mine anymore. So that's a stiff rabbit felt and a somewhat thick beaver felt that naturally did it.

Felt has texture, memory, and it "behaves." Let it behave the way it wants, and you may get something special.

As for Optimo, I think that with all of the other Indy options now available, they've fallen out of the COW spot light. I wouldn't bother getting an Indy hat from them at this point. However, I would love to have something else by them someday.

Based on my experiences, I'm going to have to politely disagree with you Chewbacca. An AB is no doubt a great hat and it looks superficially just like a Raiders, but it doesn’t react and share some of the OG Raiders hat characteristics. It’s a tough hat & is more like what a real Indiana Jones would wear. Two out of three aint bad. It can’t be everything. Akubras are a great deal for the money. But I’ve never seen that effect with them either. I liken it to a lambskin jacket. I personally wouldn’t want one, but it has characteristics that can’t really be duplicated all the way with other leathers. Cheers

golpeo_rapidamente wrote:I purchased an Optiomo Indy in pecan and within a month i shelled out the cash for a second.
I have just got the second hat back after a well earned rebuild its actually better than when new.
To me the Optimo is the best raiders hat(s) ive owned ( and ive owned them all,Herby,PB,Akubra,Stetson,Mallory and AB)
It was Rundquist who put me onto them after his initial Pecan purchase (must be a million years ago now)
Ill get some pics up of my Indy brown up soon

How much does an Optimo go for these days?

just an opinion.....which steve will probably chime in on and say i'm out to lunch......

you can recreate these crinkles by having an extremely well pounced and stiffened rabbit fur hat and dry bashing the creases into it. i am skeptical on getting this out of an AB beaver but i haven't had the chance to get my AB that soft yet.....some pics perhaps chewie?

i see this effect on the LC hat in donovan's study....you could almost see the guys 2 or 3 fingers in the side creases

My old Rabbit felt AB (that I no longer own) gave me every wrinkle, crinkle, bulge and divet that I wanted from it. Of course, I was intentionally creasing it to look wrinkled and rumpled, like the Cairo hat, so some of the results I got may have simply been from my own creative bashing methods, rather than being an inherent trait of that type of felt (it was rabbit, but not a particularly thin "dress felt"). Still, if I had another of those rabbit AB's with an open crown, I'm positive I could get some of those "Hawaii crinkles", if I wanted to.

Here's an old pic of my AB rabbit (L) next to my AB Beaver. You can see some crinkling in the non-bow side dent on the rabbit felt, but this effect did not ever materialize on the beaver felt. (There were crinkles like that in both dents of the rabbit hat, but you can't make them out in the bow-side dent due to the lighting.)



I'm sure the thinner felt of the Optimo would easily duplicate this effect without much coaxing or creative bashing, but the AB (well, the old rabbit AB's anyways) can do it, too. Now, the beaver felt AB's of today might be a different story. If I still owned mine, I'd give it a try just to see.

good to see you posting again, stranger

That's interesting. My Akubras never did that (at least naturally). What’s interesting to me is that essentially Ford had about three different hat looks in Raiders. He had the Cairo (the heat has turned the hat shape to mush) look, the Studio (Ford always fidgeting with the hat) look, and the Hawaiian look. Nobody ever goes for Hawaii, but GCR’s Akubra emulates it really well (at least from the angle of the pic). Cheers

Actually, Rundquist, GCR's hat is an AB.

-KB

Nobody ever goes for Hawaii.........

JEEP got an AB deluxe based on that hat......"the waterfall hat". my raiders AB beaver was a waterfall hat........well......er..........only cuz fedora forgot to turn it and bashed it as so ......i still get a kick out of that.........regardless, that hat has since been reblocked to a CS....

there was at least one other member who requested that look iirc. i think it's a great look to get, personally.......as long as you have another 'turned' hat in your arsenal.

from my interpretations, steve modelled his AB hats after this hat which he also confirmed with an actual vintage HJ having this block shape. now it is also believed that richard swales did not make the raiders hero hat at the 21 bond street or whatever address HJ was at at the time, but created that hat in another shop.....perhaps (and this is where all the theories come into mix, ala $3K).......the real block for the hero hat was something totally different than HJ's usual suspect....i guess we won't know unless 'screen used' allows us to come in and examine her.

if i missed anything in my blog, feel free to correct me or call me on a mistruth.......its friday......and i got no coffee in me

....and i got no coffee in me

Mistruth or not, THAT is almost unforgiveable!

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G wrote:....i guess we won't know unless 'screen used' allows us to come in and examine her.

At least now we know the sex of the hat!

mark seven wrote:

Indiana G wrote:....i guess we won't know unless 'screen used' allows us to come in and examine her.

At least now we know the sex of the hat!

you wouldn't want to put on a male hat wouldja?

{ducks under the plymouth from canyon}

no worries......i got someone to buy me a coffee now so all is good......so....what was i mumbling about again?

Kentucky Blues wrote:Actually, Rundquist, GCR's hat is an AB.

-KB

Yeah my mistake. However, he did say that he crinkled it superficially to look like the Hawaiian hat. Those crinkles occurred naturally in a new Optimo. I believe that those crinkles occurred naturally in the original Hawaiian hat. We’re talking about esoteric differences here. You can rerecord a piece of music today using the same musical arrangement, using the same caliber of musician, and somehow (because of modern recording equipment), the result is just not the same. I’ll maintain that although Fedora has gotten the hat block shape down better than Optimo and his felt is more robust than Optimo’s, his felt doesn’t embody the Raiders hat as well as Optimo’s felt. Now, his hat all around embodies the spirit of what an Indiana Jones hat should be quite well.

Rundquist, G; I wish I did have pictures, because I know I it can happen. I didn't want it, so I worked it out of my hats. My last attempt seems to be working on the AB... so far. This is the best I can do, and by then I was already fighting off the "crinkles." If you look closely you MIGHT be able to see the remains.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27810273@N ... 564349939/

Just for the record, I agree fully with Rundquist's assessment of the AB. It is a top notch hat with the right shape, but there are things it just won't do.

On the other hand, there are things my HJ won't do, either. Including what we're discussing. It goes in, but pops right back out! If it had more stiffener, I think it might hold.

I suspect that the felt is only a contributing factor. Pouncing, blocking, stiffener, and other things done to the hat probably work together. I guess Optimo has the right combo!

Out of curiosity, aren't Optimo's beaver, not rabbit?

Chewbacca Jones wrote:Rundquist, G; I wish I did have pictures, because I know I it can happen. I didn't want it, so I worked it out of my hats. My last attempt seems to be working on the AB... so far. This is the best I can do, and by then I was already fighting off the "crinkles." If you look closely you MIGHT be able to see the remains.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27810273@N ... 564349939/

Just for the record, I agree fully with Rundquist's assessment of the AB. It is a top notch hat with the right shape, but there are things it just won't do.

On the other hand, there are things my HJ won't do, either. Including what we're discussing. It goes in, but pops right back out! If it had more stiffener, I think it might hold.

I suspect that the felt is only a contributing factor. Pouncing, blocking, stiffener, and other things done to the hat probably work together. I guess Optimo has the right combo!

Out of curiosity, aren't Optimo's beaver, not rabbit?

OK, that's two guys that say I'm wrong. I guess I'm wrong . I think that Optimo's over the years have been various fur blends. They do/did have a pure beaver body, but they only used it for certain hat styles, mostly because pure beaver has characteristics that doesn’t lend itself to certain styles. To be honest, I’m surprised that Fedora is able to make his look so right for Raiders. Also make no mistake, I never said that Optimo made the best “Raider”, just that from what I’ve seen, their hat bodies had the most “Raiders” characteristics. Fedora & Lee Keppler have a better Raiders block. Don’t get me wrong, Optimo’s Raider block is really good. I’m just splitting hairs. Cheers

I was under the impression that the Optimo was a rabbit/beaver blend, but I think there was much debate and confusion regarding that years ago. I remember seeing agent5's Optimo in person several years ago and loved how wonderfully thin and lightweight the felt was. That's my only complaint with AB, that they don't offer a featherweight felt!

I agree with the sentiments that the felt and stiffener have a great deal to do with how a hat responds. The AB felt is thicker and more dense, so it will naturally respond different than a thinner or less dense rabbit felt.

EDIT: It may be hard to see in some shots, but I believe my AB has some of the crinkle of which you speak. And I just wear my hats, I don't "force crinkle" them.

Around the humps:


Stealing crinkle:

Bink, how did you get that effect where you're picking your own pocket? Photoshop?

binkmeisterRick wrote:

That's exactly what mine did when I first started working on it! Except it didn't look as nice for some reason. I hate you BinkmeisterRick! And one day I shall have my revenge!

binkmeisterRick wrote:

That is a bad case of frostbite you have, Bink. I think you should go see a doctor.

Dave

Satipo wrote:Bink, how did you get that effect where you're picking your own pocket? Photoshop?

It helps when the pocket you're picking is actually Bufflehead Jones. Hey, Buff, we're identical twins!

As for the frostbite, it's due to the carbonite process. And Chewie, don't hate me because my hat's beautiful.

Satipo, to see how funny my comment really is, here's a pic of Buff and me together:



Twins. Identical.

I see what you mean! But, hey, you can't fool me! I studied technical drawing - I know all about perspectives. Now where's the vanishing point in that picture?

Satipo wrote: Now where's the vanishing point in that picture?

The vanishing point is his wallet.

I read this post a couple of times and i have to disagree with only rabbit felt can give that look your talking about.

Here's a pure beaver hat that I made for a customer , well just take a look and se.

Definately has those crinkles. I stand corrected. Hey John, do you ever get tired or hearing how beautiful your hats are?

Dave

thank you.