Whats your "Grail" whip?

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:42 pm

I realize this is going to be a very loaded question and Im going to get alot of the same "Indy's whip" answers, but thats ok....
lets really get this going.......

what is your IDEAL "GRAIL" whip? and WHY?
it could be one that already exists or your "design" of one?

give me your ideas.... show me pictures, drawings whatever.....
lets see how far we can take this thread?

Ill start
Personally, right now, Im actually lucky enough to already own my "Grail" and that'd be my katana bullwhip:

I say its my Grail because its my totally unique design that has never been done before, and along with the wrap style which evokes my martial arts background, the decorative medallions are also of my personal logo, so it is defianntly MY whip...

WHATS YOURS?

Kentucky Blues · Post by **Kentucky Blues** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:52 pm

Mine would have to be any high quality indy style roo hide whip (something like the many of Paul Nolan's that I saw/got to use), and I don't know how long I want it to be. The longest I've ever cracked was 8ft, but I'd be interested in trying a 10 foot. Then again, I really like the look of the whip from the beginning of last crusade, maybe that's my grail whip... Dang, I don't know......

-KB

kooniu · Post by **kooniu** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:10 pm

I find my grail but ....I shy tell you .....

...ok this is ..... 4 plait , redhide stock whip from SKT.

why?? becouse is perfectly balanced, have optimal lenght , is fast and great for targeting

BroadSword · Post by **BroadSword** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:45 pm

I would love to have a 10 footer from Morgan, DelCarpio, Nolan, or Strain. The all look soooooo nice. Gotta pay 'dem bills though

. Willing to trade though.... http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?t=33877

Magno · Post by **Magno** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:03 pm

My grail whip is an eight foot thong with an 8 inch handle and a 2 foot fall. My favorite colors are black with tan (or any light colored) accents.

This is my grail, and if I ever have to retire it, I'll get another copy of it made. I'll bet it would be nice in nylon or hide.

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o43/Lutso/Whip_1.png

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:40 am

Tough, tough question! I'm thinking an 8' 12 plait roohide whip with a 12" handle and light/medium weight. A whip like that would be well suited for nearly everything I want to do. Color: whiskey.

Weston

ichnob · Post by **ichnob** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:49 pm

Two grails: a 10 foot roo whip from Terry Jacka, and a 4-6 foot custom stockwhip from Lauren or Joe Strain using a rattan cane for the handle (if that's possible).

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:07 pm

actually the cane used on stockwhips is not rattan, but rather a fiberous cane native to australia...
im gonna need one of the experts to chime in and remind me of the name, since its completely slipped my mind...

LemonLauren · Post by **LemonLauren** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:02 pm

Toheti cane is the stuff normally used for stockwhips, Shagbd. I suppose rattan could work if you could find some the right size, but I'd imagine it would have more flex to it than toheti cane, which would give the whip a weird "bounce" when it cracked, and might not be as durable. Just out of curiosity, what gave you the idea to use rattan instead of the traditional cane?

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:23 pm

TOHETI!
thats it!!

hey Lauren...... whats YOUR grail whip?

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:59 pm

Hi,

what exsacly is that Toheti? I found on Google, that only Murphy, David Morgan nad Robert Duke called that handles are made from "toheti canes". So what is the name od that wood or bush or what

?

My grail whip was made for one client

. Stockwhip, 5 ft, 21 inchs handle full plaited made with beech wood. Light and great for routines. All flicks and other cracks were very easy to made. I hope I will make two for my self, soon

.

Regards,
Karol

LemonLauren · Post by **LemonLauren** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:05 pm

Karol,
I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking... Toheti cane is a type of cane, like bamboo or rattan cane. You can buy pieces of it from Murphy's website if you want to try it out.

Shagbd,
I'm not exactly sure what my "Grail" whip would be. There are just too many styles and patterns I love, and would use for different purposes. Still though, I'm working on planning a whip to make for myself, hopefully sometime this winter. I think it will be a 12 or 16 plait 6ft with a 10" handle, two tone natural and saddle tan or natural and whiskey red, and an overall thin diameter... I might make it a pair, not sure though. It's still in the planning stages.

)

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:00 am

LemonLauren wrote: Shagbd,
I'm not exactly sure what my "Grail" whip would be. There are just too many styles and patterns I love, and would use for different purposes. Still though, I'm working on planning a whip to make for myself, hopefully sometime this winter. I think it will be a 12 or 16 plait 6ft with a 10" handle, two tone natural and saddle tan or natural and whiskey red, and an overall thin diameter... I might make it a pair, not sure though. It's still in the planning stages. )

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

that sounds like a great idea!!

let me know when your whips are finished so i can buy them out from under ya!! hahahaha

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:00 am

I don’t think I really have a "grail" whip, Like Lauren stated, There are just way too many styles and patterns I love to be able to pick one. Maybe one of the screen used Indy whips

but I don’t see that happening anytime soon, In the mean time my 455 Bullwhip made by David Morgan is with out a doubt very special to me http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4032/dscf0111qw2.jpg
I've always wanted a really 36 plait fancy two tone stock whip though too so I’ll have to think about that answer more.

Karol, Toheti cane is a naturally growing cane similar to a jungle vine and a bit like bamboo, I’ve been told it’s similar or possibly related lawyer vine too, which is also sometimes used for making whip handles too but to less extent. It is/was a popular choice for whip handles as it's strong and ridged but still somewhat flexible and because it breaks cleanly and does not form a sharp point if broken like a wooden handle, your less likely to get hurt if you happen to fall or get thrown from your horse while using or carrying the whip. Of course that was before the advent of modern materials like fiberglass and graphite, but Toheti cane is still used and is often split or quartered so that it can be reinforced with a thin steel rod in the center for added strength.

Dan

ichnob · Post by **ichnob** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:42 am

LemonLauren wrote:Just out of curiosity, what gave you the idea to use rattan instead of the traditional cane?

It would be to blend a whip with the Filipino martial art Eskrima. They use hardened rattan for demstrations/sparring/all-purpose training. If I can't use a rattan stick, then it probably would be easier to use a Toheti cane and make it have a rattan color and pattern.

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:47 am

Boy you had to go ask THAT question, didn't you? That's like asking me what my favourite film is, and the last time I tried to answer that, I came up with a good 300-350 answers so...

For me the basic bullwhip still has a special place in my heart, and as such it's more about overall balance in the whip's design than anything else.

Even though I'm usually not a big fan of multi-colored whips, this one comes pretty darn close, I'm sure most of you will spot its maker right away...

I adore its graceful taper and perfect plaiting. Otherwise, I would say probably a simple 'Raiders' in an 8 foot length.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:48 am

yeh that Strain is a beaut!

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:04 am

I couldn't be more happy with my Del Carpio 10 footer. And if I consider it costs 60% than a DM, and is almost the same whip (if not better), much happier...

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:34 am

Dan, Lauren: Has it some other name? When you will write "toheti" in google, there is no good results. That is why I'm asking about it. Why there is no such thing like "toheti cane" excluding few whipmakers' pages. Has it got another name or something? I'm asking because I would like to check this, and I don't want to import it from Australia.

Regards,
Karol

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:53 pm

Kischen wrote:Dan, Lauren: Has it some other name? When you will write "toheti" in google, there is no good results. That is why I'm asking about it. Why there is no such thing like "toheti cane" excluding few whipmakers' pages. Has it got another name or something? I'm asking because I would like to check this, and I don't want to import it from Australia.

I may be wrong, but I believe Toheti is just another name for Malacca- a type of cane root derived from a palm plant found in S. E. Asia. For centuries, malacca was favored for use in making walking sticks and canes.

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:46 pm

Thanks bogg.

"Malacca is one species of rattan (Calamus Ascipionum) found on the coast of Sumatra" - http://canequest.com/malacca.asp . There is a picture too. It shows something like Toheti. When I will heave time I will checki this for shure

.

Thanks again,
Karol

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:48 pm

Um
not to be rude but

THREAD DERAILMENT!

Id really like to keep this on topic and hear folks opinions.... maybe we can start another thread about Toheti eh?

)

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:10 pm

Ummm,
Sorry, didn't mean to derail another promotion for your Katana whip.
Don't you think that if a relevant question is asked, it should be answered?
Indeed, you are the one who first expanded on the issue of cane.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:25 pm

I finally achieved my Grail whip on my last order with David Morgan. After owning two previous Indy-style whips, I condensed my experiences into one beautiful whip, fortunately in a time when David was still doing custom request work. My 12-foot DM from 1997 was beautifully plaited, slick as glass, and rolled out like a dream. Unfortunately, its length proved unwieldy, and I opted for a much shorter whip the second time around. What I got in my 6-foot Morgan was a fantastic bullwhip for fast multiple cracking and target work, but the plaiting was much too rough, and the thong would often catch on itself whenever I reset the whip for another throw. The length was also a hindrance in that it would not coil thick enough to be held in a whip carrier without falling out. So in 2001, I placed a custom order for a #453 8-foot bullwhip with a shorter handle that suited my style, and extra-slick plaiting. The result was my Holy Grail of whips, and I couldn't be happier with it:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2380/222 ... ba09_o.jpg

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:37 pm

Boggstandard wrote:Ummm,
Sorry, didn't mean to derail another promotion for your Katana whip.
Don't you think that if a relevant question is asked, it should be answered?

dude why the hostility?
i dont think i started this thread as a "promotion" for anything.
I just thought it would be good to start a thread that was something other than "ebay" whip and "is the Noble Collection whip ok?"
just trying to do something different.

is that ok with you?

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 5:40 pm

whipwarrior wrote:I finally achieved my Grail whip on my last order with David Morgan. After owning two previous Indy-style whips, I condensed my experiences into one beautiful whip, fortunately in a time when David was still doing custom request work. My 12-foot DM from 1997 was beautifully plaited, slick as glass, and rolled out like a dream. Unfortunately, its length proved unwieldy, and I opted for a much shorter whip the second time around. What I got in my 6-foot Morgan was a fantastic bullwhip for fast multiple cracking and target work, but the plaiting was much too rough, and the thong would often catch on itself whenever I reset the whip for another throw. The length was also a hindrance in that it would not coil thick enough to be held in a whip carrier without falling out. So in 2001, I placed a custom order for a #453 8-foot bullwhip with a shorter handle that suited my style, and extra-slick plaiting. The result was my Holy Grail of whips, and I couldn't be happier with it:

wow that is a really sweet lookin whip!
whats the handle length on it? you said its shorter?
I really like how that one has aged as well...

rather odd that the 6 footer would "catch" on itself... strange...

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 6:36 pm

Shagbd wrote: "dude why the hostility?"

Um dude,
May I call you dude?
No hostility intended- just sarcasm.
Hostility would be indicated by the use of upper case letters and exclamation marks.
The so-called derailment of the thread began when you responded (appropriately, I thought, in an effort to inform)
to Ichnob's use of the word rattan.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:32 pm

While a bit of variance in a thread is fine as long as the majority of it is kept on track, lets keep this thread as it was intended and with out any sarcastic remarks that might be taken as hostile or rude. That doesn’t have a place on this main board and it makes my job harder, which I don’t like. If you have issues with each other take it into private.

On an Interesting side note about WhipWarriors bullwhip, it was one of the first that David did shortening the length of the handle grip section, he must have liked the results because after that it and up to recently, it was standard on the whips they produced.

Dan

Boggstandard · Post by **Boggstandard** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 7:58 pm

You are absolutely right Bullwhip.
I stand corrected.

I offer apologies to all concerned.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:01 pm

Boggstandard wrote:No hostility intended- just sarcasm.
.

well thats totally different!

)

sarcasm i can dig bro!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:32 pm

whats the handle length on it? you said its shorter?
I really like how that one has aged as well...

The standard DM handle length is something like 6 1/2 inches for the checkered handgrip section. I thought that a shorter grip would make the whip look a bit more interesting/dangerous, so I asked David to plait it at 4 inches from the turkshead knot to the transition band, and it turned out just fantastic. Regarding the age, that pic was taken back in January, and the whip looks exactly the same. Here is the link to my Flickr DM photo set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/9911326@N0 ... 798933142/

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:50 pm

really nice!!!

i just noticed you live in "middle georgia"
you might be close by !

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:04 pm

whipwarrior, your whip had aged gracefully. It strikes me truly as a whip that Indy would have owned. It also strikes me as an LC whip. It doesn't have the handle of a Raiders or TOD, but it screams LC to me.

I'm guessing it's very heavy?

Kiscien · Post by **Kiscien** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:00 pm

Sorry for messing the topic

.

IndyWhips · Post by **IndyWhips** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:52 pm

I'm going to answer this twice....first off the wife

This one she reaches for when she needs to learn new tricks, it's nylon so she doesn't care too much if it gets wet and muddy, its her close second grail whip

This is her grail whip and the reason she uses the one above so much, she'd be heart broken to get this one dirty and muddy

My very best Wishes
Tony

IndyWhips · Post by **IndyWhips** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:59 pm

This is my grail whip and I gave it away

It really was a peach of a whip, you only had to look at it and it went off like a sonic boom unfortunately it was made as a prize for a convention I foolishly sponsored

Sometimes I'm just too stupid for words

Tony

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:10 pm

It's the weight of a standard Morgan, about two or three pounds, I'd guess. The handle grip length makes it technically screen-inaccurate, but I fancy that it IS something that Indy might have carried earlier in his career, perhaps.

)

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:36 pm

Ah, so it's your fault that David Morgan started making all those stumpy handled whips!

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:11 pm

I think my 'Grail' whip seems to be whatever whip that I've ordered from another whipmaker--at least it's the 'grail' whip while I'm waiting to get it

I never really thought about buying whips from other whipmakers until I met Paul Nolan. He had a nice collection, including several Strains and at least one Morgan at the time. That summer I bought my first Morgan and ordered 6 stock whips from Janine Fraser, and it has been down hill from there.

Now when I order a new whip, or pair of whips, I'm thinking: "This will be the ONE!"

Now that I've stopped openly taking orders, I hope to have time to make more whips for myself, so I can eventually do a whole show with whips that I made myself. And if I get an idea for the 'grail' whip in my head, I'll have the time to make it and refine the design.

I know I really want to make a copy of a 4 1/2 ft Leonard Wheatley whip that I got from Vince Bruce. This whip has been super-accuracte for me, and is great for working indoors, but it's too old and valuable for regular use. Hopefully I can make a copy that works just as well.

-Adam

scot2525 · Post by **scot2525** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:20 pm

I would say a "grail" whip for myself would have to be a David Morgan 455 Raiders style from 89-93 that the original owner took care of but really didn't use. Since I will never find this and having learned a few things about whips over the last few months I am considering a Midwest Whips natural tan Indy version in a 9' or 10' length. I feel Paul or Lauren can make a whip that rivals or surpasses the early Morgans.

My "grail" whip definetly will be an Indy whip as I wouldn't have any desire for a whip if it wasn't for Indiana Jones series.

BroadSword · Post by **BroadSword** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:29 pm

SUCCESS!!! The stars aligned and I had some money that was owed to me come in. I had been tracking all the great whips on ebay over the last few months and I had to let a nice Strain go since I didn't have the cash. I woke up this morning to see the seller put up 3 more whips. I purchased a DelCarpio 10ft 12p Indy style whip. Not sure when it was made, but the description says it's never really been used and the tag is still on it. Looking forward to having a professionally made whip!

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:24 am

My Grail Whip would definitely be the Morgan "Classic Bullwhip". You know? The one with 3 plaited bellies, the 16 strand overlay and the herringbone pattern in the transition. Perhaps I'll someday have one, although not made by Morgan, but someone else.

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:26 am

By the way, Adam... I was intrigued by the Leonard Wheatly bullwhip. I have heard some were made of rawhide and are very sought after collectors' pieces. I'd love if you could expand on it a little.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:26 am

I got through a lot of whips in my quest for my "grail whip" - from Duke Strain, Winrich, Del Carpio and Morgan. I eventually found what I was looking for in a 10ft Morgan from 1992. This was the ultimate Indy whip as far as I was concerned. The length, the dimensions, the condition and of course the pedigree. The best Morgan I have ever handled.

Just like the Jones', once I had my grail and my enlightenment, I realised I had to let it go. This was the last bullwhip I ever bought and ever will buy.
I'm happy enough now owning only this 8ft that I made for myself - and which I couldn't have made without all the knowledge from my grail quest and my grail itself.

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:16 pm

Crikey, whiskyman, you almost had me crying there! I own my grail, my 10ft DM - it's exactly what I wanted since I was ten years old. Although mine too is tinged with sadness, as it was bought for me by my now ex-girlfriend.

Shagbd · Post by **Shagbd** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:52 am

Satipo wrote:Crikey, whiskyman, you almost had me crying there! I own my grail, my 10ft DM - it's exactly what I wanted since I was ten years old. Although mine too is tinged with sadness, as it was bought for me by my now ex-girlfriend.

can we see some pix?!

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:19 pm

Yes, as soon as I can find them. I think they're still on my ex's iMac! I'll take some new ones soon.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:06 am

Satipo wrote:Crikey, whiskyman, you almost had me crying there! .

Why's that? I was perfectly happy to let it go (otherwise I woldn't have).

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:22 pm

I guess I got the wrong impression, but I read it as though you had had to give up the whip rather than actually wanting to part with it.

Darth Indiana · Post by **Darth Indiana** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:38 pm

whiskyman wrote:

that has got to be the most beautiful whip ive ever seen. probably has a lot to do with the lighting and wonderfully matched background, but if there was such a designation as "art whip," (like the "art sword" designation in Japan) I would apply it to that one. the color and construction are just...

i'm not sure what i'd call my "Grail" whip, but i, like Mrs Indywhips, would get a copy made of paracord, for the same reason.