Club Obi Wan

My Todd's off the rack id not fit correctly, so I went to check Wested off the rack.

There I found their specials, but I see no mention of long sizes when I go to purchase it.

Does Wested offer the 'specials' (read: Imports) in long sizes as well, or only standard sizes?

I would call Peter, but it is midnight there now...

If I can get a long, I will order the washed goat special in 44 long tomorrow!

Thanks in advance to everyone!

they just come in standard sizes.. no longs. well thats what Gemma told me.. for a long you'd have to custom order it.

They run a little long. Find out what back length you need and see if one of them will correspond with hat. Get one of them to run a tape measure on a OTR for you.

Hey KT, I thought I understood that only the "ROLA" specials were cut a little longer. Supposedly the "standard" specials which is what the new washed goat raiders is, are not made any longer than usual.

Doug C

Thanks- not good news, but thanks for that anyway.

I will give a call tomorrow. I was trying to avoid the expense of a custom, if I could avoid it.

Todd's is a decent jacket, but it is a bit short for me. The sleeves are fine, as is the body diameter (the XL is a true 44), but the body length is a few inches short. If it was a closed bottom jacket, it would look like a nice moto jacket on me. It BARELY crosses the belt line on me...

Todd's XXL is the last cheap option, but I fear the body will be H U G E on me... I could have it altered, but is it worth it?? Plus it's back ordered right now, until mid September...

I feel Todd's body is a bit too short on the standard too. I know, I know.. pattern made from original stunt jacket, etc.. I just think they look wrong. Wested often does too, unfortunately on the standard spec ones, but maybe not as bad. JMHO.

Doug C

Thanks again to everyone.

I guess I'll just send this one back and wait until the XXL is available from Todds...

That's gonna be freakin' HUGE! But, I can have it altered... The length and sleeve seems just right for me.

It only costs like 40 bucks more for a Wested custom than off-the-rack.

Unless somebody is in a REAL hurry, I don't know why more people don't order custom. You get you choice of hides, long sizes are not a problem (mine is a 46 long). It's a great deal.

Oh, I have no problem with the $40.00

I'm just coming up from $150.00 and it's a big step!

If I can get the XXL (also for $150.00- well, just the cost of shipping now) and have it altered, locally, for, say $20.00-$50.00 I'm still ahead of the game by well over $100.00.

Granted (from what I hear) the wested is a higher quality jacket; however I am also trying to get a decent costume together in time for Halloween, and the clock is ticking...

Can you get a Wested Indy jacket in any kind of leather for 150 bucks?

Maybe a used one on e-bay, but even an off-the-rack will run $240+ not including shipping.

Near as I can tell from the website anyway.

Exactly my point, RW...

The wested is at least $100.00 more than the Todd's standard, even after alterations. Todd's standard is $150.00, and an excellent bargin, particularly in today's economy...

OTR special offer with shipping will be right around $290 depending on the days exchange rate. Your credit card company may hit you with an additional $10 for the conversion.

No matter how you slice it, a special offer to the US is $300. Figure a standard otr is $40 more and a custom at least $40 more than that. So $300, $350, $400 are realistic prices to figure on for Wested in the U.S.

So yes, it would still be cheaper to have a Todd's altered for fit by a tailor. The cost to send back to Wested for alterations/changes is right at about $35 so that needs to be considered as well.

I only say this because I know from ordering a Wested the other day and wonder how people come up with such crazy low prices I hear thrown around all the time.

As a Land-Rover owner and repairer, I know all to well the cost of doing business with the UK...

That being said, they do have several quality items (Barbour jackets for example) that really are high-quality, and worth the trip/shipping costs.

Now, you can get a Barbour here in the states easily, and similarly, Todd's offers a very nice Indy jacket for a very low cost.

I am going to try a second-hand custom Todds (cowhide) that seems close to my size, but may or may not be perfect... I'll either keep that, or return that and get that XXL todds standard, and alter it as needed.

Then back to the Todds standard, which is so 'cheap' it can be distressed for costume use (occasional wear) and a Custom Wested can be ordered (probanbly in the horse hide) as the every-day wear, abrasion resistant model. Let that baby distress naturally...

_:

but the original was made for a guy with a pretty short torso and long arms...

You mean, that the stunt man had longer arms and a short torso? If that's the case then I can understand why these copies look short in the body - Harrison's never looked as short in Raiders to me. So, the short bodied stunt mans jacket coupled with the fact that Todd recently lengthened the sleeves (only) on his pattern, makes it appear odd IMHO. I personally feel that the sleeve length was closer to the body length.

Doug C

The arms are always longer.

If they were the same size, the back length would be like 35 inches or so... More like a car coat.

The stunt jackets are the same size. If a stunt double is not the same size as the actor, it is difficult to cut back and forth in editing...

J!M wrote:

The arms are always longer.

Yea, I said they should be closer. I totally agree the sleeves should always be longer, but only by about an inch or so, IMHO.

If they were the same size, the back length would be like 35 inches or so...

, um... no, that's not quite true. Obviously with a number like that you'd be measuring the sleeve from the middle of the upper back and around the outside of a shoulder, where as the back length would just be measured straight down. But that aside, what I was referring to is more a look than a number or formula.

Why, if the pattern was correct did Todd recently lengthen the sleeves (only) on his standard offering? I'm saying if that detail was wrong then who's to say that the body length isn't off too? But this is just what I see with my eyes, apparently everyone else likes the body length, I don't remember anyone else mentioning it anywhere else.

Doug C

In my conversation with Tod this came up. I did not ask this specifically, but he said the quality control on sleeve length was bad, and he recently locked that down.

Now as to the sleeves being "longer" or not depends on how "short" the jacket you are comparing to is.

Apparently this was a big problem resulting in a lot of returns, but now all the sleeves (in a given size) are exactly the same length.

_ wrote:

They all wore the same size jackets... Only one size/pattern was made...

That makes since, that only one size jacket was made for Raiders, but in future movies they all didn't wear the same size jackets.

J!M wrote:

If a stunt double is not the same size as the actor, it is difficult to cut back and forth in editing...

We've seen pictures of Vic Armstrong sitting next to Harrison Ford, with Harrison wearing an oversized LC jacket and Armstrong wearing what was apparently the same jacket that he used in Raiders.
http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/1731 ... ongbp0.jpg

Doug C

_ wrote:

Doug C wrote:_:

but the original was made for a guy with a pretty short torso and long arms...

You mean, that the stunt man had longer arms and a short torso? If that's the case then I can understand why these copies look short in the body - Harrison's never looked as short in Raiders to me. So, the short bodied stunt mans jacket coupled with the fact that Todd recently lengthened the sleeves (only) on his pattern, makes it appear odd IMHO. I personally feel that the sleeve length was closer to the body length.

Doug C

They all wore the same size jackets... Only one size/pattern was made...

I've wondered about that. According to the internet movie database HF is 6'1". I'm the same height. He was meant to have worn a 40R. I assume that the jacket measured and then replicated by G&B was also a 40R. I have tried a G&B 40R and it's way too small for me and I'm only about 180 lbs (so fairly slim... possibly slimmer than HF in Raiders). If HF has long arms then I must have outrageously long arms... which I don't actually. I now own an expo 42T which is a little baggy and long but not too bad. There are some things not really making sense to me.

But, as the jacket was tailored, it may well be a 40R in the body and a 40L in the sleeve. This is very common and often it will say "40" inside with no regard for sleeve length. (or not say any size at all)

I have long arms and a 44L is USUALLY right for me in an "off the rack" suit jacket. BUT, it varies with manufacturer. A Jones New York will not fit the same as a Donna Karan will, both in 44L... Kind of like a shoe last. Just because it's "your size" doesn't mean it will fit well... I measure an 11-1/2 D but I have shoes ranging from 10 to 12 in several widths. I have 'flat feet' so even though I measure normal width, I tent to fit much better in a narow shoe. My Schott is BASED on the 44L version of that jacket, but I added even more to the sleeve and body length for coverage of my wrists and lower back in riding position. Standing around, the jacket looks way too long on me...

BUT, I also hear what you are saying. If it is a replica of Ford's jacket, it should be Ford's 'fitted' jacket. If it fits you, you are the same size as Ford. If it doesn't, you are not the same size as Ford. seems simple enough.

What I SUSPECT has happened (in the interest of commercialization) is that the Ford jacket was 'adjusted' to the nearest 'normal' size. If it was close to 40R, then the sleeve length would be reduced to 40R spec, and the other sizes (both larger and smaller) extrapolated from that.

This also explains why there is a lot of focus on the pockets. If your jacket is taller and/or wider than the "ideal" jacket, the proportion of pocket area to total jacket area will be skewed, and the pockets then look "big" or "Small". (this is without regard for the whole camera angle thing- this is a big enough post already!)

This is a tricky business. On one hand you want "absolute accuracy" and on the other you want to sell a bunch of jackets to everyone from underweight kids to overweight adults, and everyone in between of every size. Having only one size jacket will become a problem very quickly if you want to make money...

In this age of computers, I see no reason why the "real" jacket could not be scaled in every dimension, so the overall appearance would remain the same, regardless of size. 42 to 44 is about a 5% increase in size. If ALL the dimensions were increased (including pocket dimensions for arguments sake) by 5% the jacket would LOOK the same, as long as you fit the standard pattern. BUT the down side is if you have a 'normal' body length and long arms, the body will appear long on you since the jacket is not proportioned to your body type, but to Harrison Ford's body type. You can start to see whay this is such a hassle to figure out...

In this age of computers, I see no reason why the "real" jacket could not be scaled in every dimension, so the overall appearance would remain the same, regardless of size. 42 to 44 is about a 5% increase in size. If ALL the dimensions were increased (including pocket dimensions for arguments sake) by 5% the jacket would LOOK the same, as long as you fit the standard pattern. BUT the down side is if you have a 'normal' body length and long arms, the body will appear long on you since the jacket is not proportioned to your body type, but to Harrison Ford's body type. You can start to see whay this is such a hassle to figure out...

... earlier in this thread weren't you having a hard time justifying 150 bucks for a jacket? Your idea is cool, and it's conceivable that a manufacturer could do it with the right equipment and software and people, but good luck on making and selling jackets like that for even twice that 150 dollar price tag. I would think that if somebody could offer totally accurate sizing they would be in the position to sell their wares at a big premium.

Road Warrior wrote: ... earlier in this thread weren't you having a hard time justifying 150 bucks for a jacket?

Um, no, I have trouble justifying $500.00, when I could spend $150.00.

Actually, you did say:

I'm just coming up from $150.00 and it's a big step!

But for $150 you ain't getting no scaled exactly to the original jacket. You'll get bone-stock, off-the-rack, decent (maybe, depending on brand) jacket, and no more.

But your premise was good. I doubt you could even find one like you were describing for even $500 bucks, however.

You were talking about Wested when you started the thread, and they're no more $350, even if you go full custom in horsehide. I know because I just bought one. Who's $500 jacket were you looking at?

Raider S wrote:OTR special offer with shipping will be right around $290 depending on the days exchange rate. Your credit card company may hit you with an additional $10 for the conversion.

No matter how you slice it, a special offer to the US is $300. Figure a standard otr is $40 more and a custom at least $40 more than that. So $300, $350, $400 are realistic prices to figure on for Wested in the U.S.

So yes, it would still be cheaper to have a Todd's altered for fit by a tailor. The cost to send back to Wested for alterations/changes is right at about $35 so that needs to be considered as well.

I only say this because I know from ordering a Wested the other day and wonder how people come up with such crazy low prices I hear thrown around all the time.

Here you go... That is Wested.

Magnoli is a bit more. Wings is also more if I'm not mistaken... I understand tailored costs more- I paid well over a grand for my Schott.

Road Warrior wrote: You were talking about Wested when you started the thread, and they're no more $350, even if you go full custom in horsehide. I know because I just bought one. Who's $500 jacket were you looking at?

Base price for a custom is 165 pounds + shipping 20 pounds = 360.54 US dollars at the current exchange. The 165 did not include any extras like gussets, etc.

So let's say closer to $375 for a custom if you figure in any credit card fees or an extra option or two.

A G&B will be nearly $500 by the time you figure in shipping. More like $475 I believe.

USW goat will be about $320 shipped to your door. Cowhide or lamb about $360.

Gee Raider S., thanks for telling me how much I paid for my jacket!

I was telling those uninitiated who read the thread what costs what because lots of people keep saying what great values Westeds are when in fact they are just about in line with the other jackets out there. Other than an Todd's, there's nothing that isn't at least $300. So by far it's the least expensive. A Wested is twice as much and I think that was J!m's point.

Doesn't mean Wested is good or bad (I have one on order) simply they aren't as inexpensive as others would suggest.

Well all things being equal, a special is £125. ($245 today.) + £20 ($39) if posted to the states. ($284) yes you run the small risk of duty, but not that much, and not that much duty. Oh, and no additional sales tax. Is there any sales tax on jackets bought in the US from US makers?

Conversely, the risk of duty for us in the UK is about the same but the charges if unlucky are much worse. I could end up paying more for a Todd than for a Wested. Also most US makers hit us with a much higher shipping charge, eg. Wings X4 normal and no returns. Wested's shipping to the US is only x2 normal.

US sales tax on mail order is becoming more common. If I order in-state (CT and NY) I have to pay sales tax, as if I went to the store myself.

When I order from Todd's for example (in CA) and ship to CT as I do, then I don't pay sales tax.

It varies from state to state (both the sending and receiving state) so we can get that bill as well...

As you say, duty is less of a concern for small items, but it is possible.

In general, heavier packages tend to be checked/billed more often than light ones...

Next time I'm in the UK I will make a point to see Peter in person, try some stuff on, and get all my measurements on file with him. That is the sure way for a perfect fit.

Well all things being equal, a special is £125. ($245 today.) + £20 ($39) if posted to the states. ($284) yes you run the small risk of duty, but not that much, and not that much duty. Oh, and no additional sales tax. Is there any sales tax on jackets bought in the US from US makers?

I paid no duty on my recently received Wested, but I paid almost 60 bucks for one of my Aero's. As far as sales tax goes, it depends on the state you live in. If I purchase a jacket in Pennsylvania, where I live, we have no sales tax on clothing, but on practically everything else. Delaware, which is right next to us, has no state sales tax. Buy a jacket in Illinois and you'll pay 10% (or very close to that) sales tax. I think most states have 5 to 8% sales tax rates these days.

These tax rates I've noted are for over-the-counter purchases. Most online purchases are sales tax-free, unless the source is located in the same state you are. Of course, the government is salivating trying to think of a way to force everybody to pay sales tax on all purchases, all the time.