Club Obi Wan

So really - what the heck is the main difference between Todd's and the Wested lamb?

is it the cut?

wha?

To me, Wested and TODD's are 2 completely different animals.

Being an owner of both jackets, I can tell you hands down that the Wested jacket is more durable than a TODD's Standard. Although, at the expense of Todd using very light leathers for his standard, It gives the perfect Raiders look.

This is as much as I'll add. I'm sure many others will add their thoughts to your question.

I'll pitch in here as well, as I too have both of these jackets. The style is very different, but my Wested could be considered "vintage" as it is more than 10 years old. The Todd's jacket has all the details I've ever wanted in a Raider's jacket. As to durability, the Wested has proven itself admirably, and the Todd's is still fairly new. Some of the more recent offerings from Wested look much more like the original Raider's jacket than they used to, but for me the Todd's jacket nailed the look in a very thorough and satisfying way.

I think you would be better served by getting an opinion from someone who bought both a Todd's and a Wested at about the same time, in their standard offerings. That would give you a much better basis for comparison.

Weston

I just bought a new wested and man I don't remember my first feeling that light - and then I got to thinking about the Todd's and i remember people saying how light it is - but I can't even imagine how bloody light it can be if this thing barely weighs a pound!

Todd's standard is LIGHT. really, really, really Light.

It weighs as much as 3 or 4 of your medium weight shirts put together.

I've got a Todd's Standard and a Wested HorseHide LC...I've also owned a Wested Raiders in Goat.

Amazing how different jackets of the same style can be.

The Wested Horse LC is a nice thickness and fits as an LC or CS jacket should IMO, a heavyweight jacket for sure to tough out the roughest conditions.
The Wested Goat is light but really strong, I'd put it as a middleweight jacket, very nice wearing, but not accurate in drape and the way it weathers...mine was a custom with some requested accurate details.
The Todd's is a lightweight for sure, and not nearly as durable as the other two, BUT it has got just about all the SA details most custom order in a Wested Raiders. The only thing the Todd's needs to be truly accurate is a cotton lining, and not sure why this was overlooked in the first place when everything else was done so accurately.

The only thing the Todd's needs to be truly accurate is a cotton lining, and not sure why this was overlooked in the first place when everything else was done so accurately.

It wasn't overlooked.






That lining is not cotton.

Well done Todd! And thanks for the teriffic jacket!

Weston

Interesting. Mind you - what jacket is that - a different one for PR shots maybe? Notice the pocket size on the shot with the whip action - huge!!

it's this jacket..

well..at least I think it's this one



Holt

Yes, Holt. Looks like it. Bad angle thought. Is that the jacket you see in the Well of Souls scenes? I noticed in the making of DVD that the jacket there has longer pockets. You don't see all that much difference in pocket sizes in the actual film though.

Perhaps the jacket here is a stunt jacket...

I just noticed that his bag strap (in the color photo above) is quite wide (and where's the buckle?)- as wide as the web belt, which I think is an inch and a quarter wide or so...

This could easily be a pre-release promo-photo, and that jacket might also be pre-filming promo "prop" jacket that never saw screen time. (a theory- please don't decapitate me!)

What could be significant about this particular jacket is that if it is in fact a Wested, it could be the very one disressed by the poolside by Noolalman (I'm sure I got her name wrong, apologies), or even one of the leather pre-Wested jackets made by Wilson's?

Sorry to muddy the waters here, but the storm flap width sems quite wide to me as well; the zip does appear to be 'silvery' in color too... I should just shutup now as I have no idea what I'm talking about...

I dont' know which jacket that is, (_ may know) but I also noticed a scene in Raiders (sorry, I can't remember where) where you caught a glimpse of the lining and it was clearly shiny. The alledged cotton used is a pocket lining material, and it is very dull. I know where the cotton lining story came from, and I believe the person who started it is simply mistaken.

If I can remember where the scene is, I will take some screen caps. In some places it looks dull because of all the dust and fuller's earth.

Here is my standard Todd's raiders.

I just bit the bullet and ordered one of these.

All the dimensions (except the sleeve length) seem to be perfect, and the look is very good as well.

Plus, it's in stock, so I should have it in a week or so.

I will report on the fit once I get it, but I fear the sleeves, though technically perfect for me, will be too short for the Indy "A bit too long" look...

I may just say forget it and live with them too short (to be screen acurate) too...

EDIT: I forgot to mention, delfloria, your's looks perfect!

delfloria wrote:Here is my standard Todd's raiders.

That jacket look is Raiders PERFECTION.

crismans wrote:

delfloria wrote:Here is my standard Todd's raiders.

That jacket look is Raiders PERFECTION.

I agree it looks just perfect. It also looks like it would be one tuff jacket. Amazing how things look in pictures. Does is the jacket feel like it could take it though?

Aeris Canon,

Actually, I was inspired by your photos at your website to go for the Todd's after a ton of research.

It's very, very light....like a windbreaker but seems no less durable than other light jackets I have owned. If I was looking for a "Tuff" jacket I would have ordered an "LC" Novapelle from Wested. What I wanted at the moment was a "Raiders" look and feel. This filled the bill for me.

I've gotta' agree here, the Todd's is a NICE jacket. It's really light and comfortable, the leather is tougher than it looks.

caveat - be careful, when I was knocking the new outta my Todd's while it was drying, I was giving a little stretch back to the leather while wearing it and I popped a few of the liner seams.

I immersed the jacket for a couple of minutes in the bathtub, squeezed some of the water out and let it sit overnight in a duffle sack.

The next day I hung it up to air dry for a while. When I put it on, the sleeves and back were perfectly where I wanted them, so I tugged on them a little with NO problems.

I put the jacket on - still damp - and hunched my shoulders forward a LOT, like when you REALLY stretch your back, and I popped a little of the upper seam holding the sleeve liner.

Not a big deal at all, an easy fix, and something I've done to almost ALL of my coats, but wanted to give a head's up on this issue. Take it easy when stretching, if you're going that route.

The coat looks great now, I've not distressed it at all, just soaked and stretched.

I've been wearing it as much as possible to get some natural wrinkling and stretching into it, so it doesn't look so new.

It's a great coat, and I'll post some pictures soon in my own thread.

dv

Delfloria, that is one of the finest I've seen!

Weston

Puppetboy wrote:I dont' know which jacket that is, (_ may know) but I also noticed a scene in Raiders (sorry, I can't remember where) where you caught a glimpse of the lining and it was clearly shiny. The alledged cotton used is a pocket lining material, and it is very dull. I know where the cotton lining story came from, and I believe the person who started it is simply mistaken.

If I can remember where the scene is, I will take some screen caps. In some places it looks dull because of all the dust and fuller's earth.

I've been making this argument since my first day here at COW



PS: the "Marcus would agree with me!" line is repeating in my head now.

Indiana Holt wrote:it's this jacket..

well..at least I think it's this one



Holt

That storm flap does look extra wide here too And notice how close the pocket is to the flap. nothing like any other jacket I've seen.

I've been making this argument since my first day here at COW

Well, here you go. Three scenes where the shiny liner is very apparent:

1. The temple in the opening. Watch the inside of the jacket as Ford prepares to go into the temple. The jacket swings open and there it is - a shiny liner. Watch the rest of the temple sequence and watch the roll on the right side (his right). The shimmer as it catches the light is unmistakeable.

2. The idol grab. You get a great look at both sides of the liner and the shimmer is obvious.

3. The old man's house. Watch the jacket as Ford reaches for a date. Shiny, shiny, shiny.

I believed the party line about the cotton lining until I was watching the film and noticed these shots (and more) and realized I was completely wrong.

Sorry I disagree.
I see cotton there and I don't see no shine, other than cotton shine...

Also I believe that the original maker would know if he was using cotton or satin back then. (He might not using satin at all)

Also we're talking movie costume, who would put satin lining on a 1930s jacket?

PLATON,

before you go off, go watch the film as I said. The shine is OBVIOUS to anyone with an open mind when you see it in motion. And you can't argue with the stars photo.

The original maker has been wrong about many things. That arguement is VERY tired.

It may have a bit of shine but that could be down to dirt.

The semi shine and the way it folds looks like mercurized cotton to me.

It's not nylon, and it certainly isn't satin. IMO.

KT, did you see my last post? WATCH THE FILM. Commenting on the photos is pointless. In fact, I'm taking them down because this speculation by all the experts on this board drives me crazy.

Let's see you explain away the stars photo to fit in with your little belief system. I'm sure you can.

Also, bear in mind that not all the jackets may have had synthetic liners.

Are you seriously suggesting that you and only you have watched the film with materials in mind?!

Yes, I have watched it actually and in HD. It's is not as shiny as satin, it might be a rayon/nylon. But it is consistent with worn in and dirtied mercurized cotton. (and yes, I do mean worn in in a dirty film set kind of way).

I'm suggesting if you go back and watch those scenes specifically with fresh eyes, and focus on the liner, the way it shimmers in the light is a dead giveaway. If you had done that, you would probably be agreeing with me.

It sounds like you are agreeing with me anyway, admitting it could be synthetic. I agree - it's not satin. Probably standard rayon lining material. Dirty cotton would have no sheen at all, and in motion, the lining clearly has a high sheen.

Puppetboy wrote:

I've been making this argument since my first day here at COW

Well, here you go. Three scenes where the shiny liner is very apparent:

1. The temple in the opening. Watch the inside of the jacket as Ford prepares to go into the temple. The jacket swings open and there it is - a shiny liner. Watch the rest of the temple sequence and watch the roll on the right side (his right). The shimmer as it catches the light is unmistakeable.

2. The idol grab. You get a great look at both sides of the liner and the shimmer is obvious.

3. The old man's house. Watch the jacket as Ford reaches for a date. Shiny, shiny, shiny.

I believed the party line about the cotton lining until I was watching the film and noticed these shots (and more) and realized I was completely wrong.

I couldn't agree more. As I said, I have been making this argument since day one and was convinced that it WAS cotton. Even years later, when the DVD's came out, I remember saying to myself "Are they SURE the lining is cotton?". Even the Flying Wing scenes you can see the sheen. I gotta start remembering which posts I say stuff in

Puppetboy wrote:I agree - it's not satin. Probably standard rayon lining material. Dirty cotton would have no sheen at all, and in motion, the lining clearly has a high sheen.

Could it have been the Polyester twill that G&B use for their linings?...We know that T.Leonard's screen-used jacket was examined by _.Even if flightsuits didn't duplicate that lining exactly for the Expedition,it must have been noted what material the original lining was made from?

G&B uses dacron. It's not like satin but has a shine. It's also very uncomfortable to wear as it makes you sweat.

Todd, I still haven't seen the film to watch to scenes you indicated but I have not reasons to doubt you. You know I know you have an eye for detail. (You didn't have to put down the photos)

If I was a jacket maker, for the case of the lining, I would go with what was period accurate, not screen accurate.

Of course, looking forward to _'s comments on the stunt jacket lining.

PS: A little argument is in the game. You know what happened to me and my (paris) pants? Everybody was arguing that the color wasn't right. I told them that getting the right color would result in more expensive pants but noone seemed to care about the price. So after tremendous efforts I found the correct color and now everyone disappeared and nobody buys. I haven't sold a single pair and got one order only in which the guy paid for the pants only and not for shipping. I am seriously thinking about quiting the pants.

PLATON wrote:G&B uses dacron. It's not like satin but has a shine. It's also very uncomfortable to wear as it makes you sweat.

.

Actually that's not right. My G&B, like the others, has a special polyester twill which is woven in such a way to let the air circulate. It is actually more comfortable than the cotton in my Wested and I've tested both jackets in action and heat.

Cheers.

CM, I see your point.
I speak from my experience with a G&B cowhide A-2 with dacron lining.
It always gave me sweat while wested never did.

Question....Is Todd's standard a "Seal Brown" like Wested's or closer to a "Dark brown" color like G&B ?

PLATON wrote:G&B uses dacron. It's not like satin but has a shine. It's also very uncomfortable to wear as it makes you sweat.

Sorry, but a cotton liner is WAY warmer than the dacron/satin linings. I have two similar jackets - one with all cotton, one with all satin - and the difference is huge.

On the lining - I just got word from a friend who owns one of the Raiders stunt jackets and the liner is "satin" as he says. Of course, I know he's not a fabric expert, and it's very hard to tell the fiber content of many fabrics without burning them, so it might not be "satin satin" but rather a standard lining like rayon or acetate. I'm very curious to hear from _ about Terry Leonard's jacket liner.

Someone here on this board (I'm sorry, I know we spoke over the phone, but your name slips my memory, and I wouldn't call you out publicly anyway) knows a collector in Japan with another Raider's jacket. Perhaps you can get in touch with your friend and inquire about the liner? You can email the info to me if you don't want to divulge this info on the forum yourself. Then we would know about three jackets.

The Last Crusade jacket also had a synthetic liner - it was heavier though and not shiny. Maybe a polyester or nylon. And it was a lighter color like butterscotch. I know this from a prototype I saw belonging to a fashion designer who was contracted by LucasFilm to make an official jacket. They sent her a LC jacket from the archives to reproduce exactly, and she did - stitch for stitch. Her liner was an exact match for theirs.

How about Chris King? You saw Noel Howard's TD jacket which may have been another Raiders stunt jacket. What kind of liner did it have?

Todd ( Puppetboy ),

I just wanna take a second to tell you: you have the best jacket going right now. I had one, and really REALLY liked it. Sadly, due to having sort of a long torso thing going on, I had to sell it off to subsidize a Wested. I really hope to be able to afford one of your customs in the future in an effort to overcome the length issue ( or maybe take a shot at a 2X ). This in no way detracts from how satisfied I was with what I got for the price ( as I don't think the Raiders jacket was as long as a lot of people see it in their mind's eye anyway, and my problem with length is MY problem ).
For my money, the Coyle's jackets are, hands down, THE Raiders jacket.
I'd like to add, when I placed my order over the phone, I did so during the crunch just before the latest movie. I know you guys were inundated, but you treated me like I was your first customer on the first day you opened for business.
I appreciate your being steadfastly concientious about the details in your products and attention to customer service. Thanks.

On the LC front we know that at least one of the protos has a black acetate liner. The butterscotch one may have been a tester.

This pic also looks like a black liner and has a sheen to it. Other LC images look brown and more like satin.





The Raiders info I will take under advisement, if _ says nylon, then the stunt jacket case, at least, is closed.

PLATON wrote:CM, I see your point.
I speak from my experience with a G&B cowhide A-2 with dacron lining.
It always gave me sweat while wested never did.

Did you have a Wested A-2? What the heck are you talking about anyway? 8-[ An A-2 is a warmer jacket than an Indiana Jones jacket period. :!:

if _ says nylon, then the stunt jacket case, at least, is closed.

My collector friend confirmed satin, so the case is closed for me, at least on his jacket.

Good LC pics! Black it was (at least on that one).

I'm a little confused......are the todd's jackets being talked about in this article his $150 standard jacket or the $400 - 500 custom.....

In particular, which one is delfloria? His jacket looks amazing.....

Are the $150 standards the ones that everyone is referring to as being super screen acurate? Does it have rounded storm flap corners? its hard to tell from the pics.....also what about the leather facing on the zipper? and what does the inside pocket look like?

I'm really anxious to get answers to the above questions as I am planning on ordering a jacket very soon....I had thought I wanted a wested but now I'm not sure anymore......


Thanks

IR

defloria's jacket is a standard, and they are darn accurate off the rack. If I HAD to lodge a complaint, the only one would be that the sliders are plastic rather than metal. I suppose that could be fixed easily enough, though.

As I understand it, Todd's jackets (both versions) are the most accurate Raiders jackets yet produced. As you may know, they were developed from the original specs of the G&B, which in turn was created from a screen used stunt jacket, and Todd did additional research (as we are reading about here) to achieve even greater accuracy. A little searching on other threads will fill in a lot of the details.

Most people who buy the Standard seem to love it, despite some initial misgivings about the thinness of the leather. The main complaints have been sizing issues on the Standard.

Jack

I have one of Todd's standard jackets and I gotta tell ya, I have never been happier with a jacket in my life. It is a dead ringer of the Raiders jacket I have always dreamed of owning. I love it!

If I HAD to lodge a complaint, the only one would be that the sliders are plastic rather than metal.

The sliders are metal

I can't wait for mine- been watching that tracking info like a Hawk!

But, I fear it will be too short, after measuring my Schott...

I measured me, with a shirt on, from the base of my (shirt) collar and everything seemed great. Today, I measured my Schott (it was raining, so I wore it out today) and the back of the leather, from the base of the collar is nearly 1.5 inches longer than the Raiders jacket...

Obviously, I will check sizing very carefully, but I have to say that I will be disappointed if it doesn't fit properly.

Based on the fit of this 'rack' jacket, I will go for a custom I suppose, since I have wanted this jacket since Raider's came out!

were they always metal on the standard? I'd swear mine were plastic ( plastic coated metal? )

Puppetboy -
Have the sliders always been metal? I'd swear mine were plastic ( plastic coated metal? )

- sorry for the freakish double post -

As far as I know the've always been zinc painted black. The paint is thick and might have a plastic feel to it.