Club Obi Wan

After seeing so many questions about the screen accurate color of the whip in each of the movies, I figure there should be a thread dedicated to the subject itself.

The short answer to the color question is: The ultimate screen accurate color to buy for ANY of the first three movies is Natural Tan. The numerous whips used in those movies were all natural tan, and any differences in color we see are due to the fact that each of the whips were different ages and had been used different amounts. If you buy a natural tan whip and use it somewhat regularly, your natural tan whip will go through all the stages of aging and will at separate times look like all the whips seen in all the first three movies.

The long answer is: The whips used in all three of the films(excluding KOTCS) were all made from Natural Tan color. The problem of inconsistent colors is that not all of the whips used in Raiders were brand new when they began filming. In the original film the stunt coordinator brought his own David Morgan bullwhips to use, which were made from Natural Tan, and some were many years old, and some were fairly new. Some of those were used by Ford and the stunt men for practicing. In Temple of Doom, and Last Crusade, most of the whips from Raiders were re-used, and that is why all of the whips used in TOD and LC are consistently darker in color. If you pay close attention to the whip throughout the entire film of Raiders, you can see almost all of the shades that natural tan will turn over time at various points in the film. Here are some direct references to illustrate the different aged whips in Raiders:

In Raiders at the very beginning where Indy knocks the gun out of Barranca's hand by the water, it is a very darkened Natural, and was one of the stunt coordinator's older whips.

Then in the very next scene where Indy enters the temple (it is especially visible when he brushes the spiders off his back, as well as when he holds the whip up in the light where he says "stay out of the light") you can see that the whip is much much lighter and matches the color of a brand new Natural Tan whip. These were some of the newer whips.

As you watch the rest of the film you can see that the whips change color throughout the movie, some have been abused/distressed by the props crew with dirt etc.. but they were all made from natural tan.

Here is a quick collage of whip screen grabs from Raiders to illustrate the point:



Here is a collage of screen used whips that are now owned in private collections:



Notice that all of them have different shades of Natural Tan. Also, some of the whips in this collage are the same whip, but the pictures were taken at different times, with different backgrounds. Another thing to keep in mind is how much lighting effects the color. There are three shots of the same whip (with the pugliese tag) taken on the same date, and even taken by the same person, and the color looks different darknesses in each picture. Also, in the filming of Raiders, TOD, and LC the cinematographers used different filters, as well as different lighting throughout each of the films, and that adds to the different looks and color changes that we see on screen as well.

So to sum up in a nutshell, there is no Accurate Indy whip color except Natural Tan.

So if you buy a Natural Tan whip, the color will Screen accurately match different scenes from all three films throughout the life of the whip.

If you are wanting a brand new whip to match a specific scene then perhaps saddle tan or whiskey would more accurately match at first. But after a few years of use, it will get quite a bit darker, and not match as many of the on screen colors throughout the rest of it's life.

In my personal opinion, Saddle Tan and Whiskey never look just quite right to me when it comes to SA Indy whips, although they are beautiful colors for a non-screen accurate whip.

Something that might be fun, post pictures of your own Natural Tan whips, and be sure to include how old they are. That way we can all see how the color changes over time and with use. I have some older Natural Tan whips in my collection, and when I get an extra minute I'll post some pictures of them as well.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
www.midwestwhips.com

Thank you for posting this, Paul - this will help alot of people out considerably when looking to buy, myself included.

I'd like to see pictures of aged saddle and whiskey whips as well, so see how they look after a few years.

My 8 plait roohide bullwhip I posted a picture of in the recent 'Three whips' topic was originally natural tan. It was made in 1985, used fairly heavily for a few years, and then sat forgotten in a cardboard box, out of the light, for nearly 2 decades.

As far as I remember it was not looked after or greased in this time. It developed a bit of spotty mildew on it, but is otherwise fine, and still in good working condition, though I did replace the end TH knot recently.

When it was packed away it had already gone quite a bit browner, but during the long storage it developed its final color.

Thanks so much Paul for taking the time to clear this up for a lot of IndyFans.

MODS, PLEASE STICKY THIS!!!!

Ah well said. But here's a question I've talked to Bernardo at length about, I can never get my natural tan to look as light as his and I don't know why. As soon as I put on any amount of plaiting soap (and I use the 'standard' recipe), the leather darkens a few shades right there! By the time the whip is finished and has been rolled (rolling seems to compress the juices into going into any bits of less conditoned leather...) they usually end up looking a nutty shade of brown and I swear the hides were almost white when I got them! So I've never had a problem having an aged-look in a new whip hehehe.

Franco

Nice little thread Paul. Should be helpful to those whom are new here.

I'd like to see pictures of aged saddle and whiskey whips as well, so see how they look after a few years.

myrddin, if you wan't to see photos of an aged whiskey colored Indy whip, I'd be more then happy to go home later and take some various shots of my whip. It's about 4 years old and is used constantly but is very well taken care of and babied. Whiskey whips tend to take on a nice color over time.

WhipDude wrote:myrddin, if you wan't to see photos of an aged whiskey colored Indy whip, I'd be more then happy to go home later and take some various shots of my whip. It's about 4 years old and is used constantly but is very well taken care of and babied. Whiskey whips tend to take on a nice color over time.

That'd be awesome, thanks. Though I guess, it probably doesn't belong in this thread, since it's now offical and stickied.

Thanks for clearing this out for us Very interesting thread.

Hey Paul, this doesn't have to do much with the subject of this thread but... where did you get those pics? They are amazing, specially the first one that seems to have some kind of message or note from Mr Ford .

Thanks and Good Things...

-Alfonso

midwestwhips wrote:After seeing so many questions about the screen accurate color of the whip in each of the movies, I figure there should be a thread dedicated to the subject itself.

Paul,

This is a very helpful and informative post - thanks for taking the time to compile these photos. I have several pics of a few of the screen-used whips as well, but they're scattered all over my computer.

Here are two pics I have of a screen-used whip (from an auction that occurred in 2007) -








-Craig

Here's another pic showing different Indy bullwhips. ALL are natural tan, but some are new and others are very old, so the change in color is very apparent.

Left to right, we have a very early Strain; then another Strain but more modern; third a brand new Strain made last June; an old Morgan from the eighties; a Morgan made in 2000, and one of my own (del Carpio Raiders) made a couple of months ago.

Regards,

Bernardo
www.delcarpiowhips.com

the old strain and the old morgan practically look BLACK...

INCREDIBLE color change but thats the beauty of owning a natural colored whip..... its like its STILL alive and changing!

were these whips treated with anything? or is that all from natural use?

im my opinion the one next to the far left is the best color to me what do u guys think

Paul is neck-deep trying to answer emails, and asked me to make a quick post about some questions that have popped up on this thread.

Alfonso,
The pictures are all ones Paul has collected over the years from internet sources from various auctions, collectors, etc.

weaponx24,
Paul knows all of the previous owners of these whips personally, and from what he was told by them, all the whips from Bernardo's picture were aged simply through regular natural use and regular (every 4-6 months or so) applications of a plain leather dressing like Pecards. Beautiful, aren't they?

Thanks to everyone else for all the photos you've been posting - don't stop! The more pictures and examples of whips (new and old!) on this sticky, the more useful it will be to everyone.

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

I just got a 8 ft. whip from Louie Foxx and I must say that I am very impressed with it. I think I am either going to order a Strain next or a Del Carpio whip. I'd think I'd like to get a KOTCS style whip...

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in the pot

Ive had this whip from Bernardo for a month exactly now...... understand its seen daily use and some outside as well..
but its turned into a nice caramelly color.... i am really enjoying seeing it age...

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb13 ... thidol.jpg

shagbd,

Good heavens, man! That whip is amazingly dark for only being a month old - I have a two year old roo hide Winrich 10' that's just barely turning deep orange now. I guess that just goes to show the differences in the aging rate of certain whips....

Highest Regards,
- Chris

well it was already a bit darker when i got it.
Bernardo and I discussed that, i was very pleased with the color but he said its probably the plaiting soap etc...

Shagbd & Chris,

The speed it darkened was also probably accelerated by the excess of Pecards you were using in the beginning too. Lots of leather dressing, particularly in combination with plenty of sunshine, will darken a whip pretty quickly. But don't anybody get any ideas from that! ;-) It's not good for the whip to put too much leather dressing on the thong - it loosens up the braiding and knots, especially the fall hitch area, and can also alter the balance of a well-made whip.

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

LemonLauren wrote:Shagbd & Chris,

The speed it darkened was also probably accelerated by the excess of Pecards you were using in the beginning
www.midwestwhips.com

i ruined it u think?

Nah, of course it's not ruined. It's fine. ) Using that much Pecards just isn't the best thing for a whip, for the tightness of its braiding and knots and for its balance. But like a bad haircut grows out, Pecards will also gradually evaporate from the whip, and most of the potential problems will vanish with it except for possibly some of the looseness too much Pecarding can create. Bernardo's whips are beasts though, and I've no doubt it'll survive just fine. ;-)

Lauren Wickline
www.midwestwhips.com

Good heavens, man! That whip is amazingly dark for only being a month old - I have a two year old roo hide Winrich 10' that's just barely turning deep orange now. I guess that just goes to show the differences in the aging rate of certain whips....

Highest Regards,
- Chris

Chris as briefly mentioned some of Bernardo’s recent bullwhips had come out darker right off the bat. He explained it in another thread but basically some of the drum-stuffed hides he had gotten in where more heavily greased then usual at the tannery making them darker to start with. Then he ran out of his normal plaiting soap which used pure kidney fat, when he couldn’t find the kidney fat to make more, he had to substituted lard, lard based plaiting soaps are kind of known to darkening natural tan leather. So those two factors sent some of the new tan bullwhips into a darker tan/ light brown.

Dan

shagbd and Dan,

Thanks for the info.....The only reason for my initial response to that picture of the whip was just how dark it looked after only one month. After looking at the pics that were posted of it when it was new, I see that it was just a darker whip from the get-go. I'm actually a big fan of that darker tan look as opposed to the almost stark white look of some new roohide whips - nice to know now how that darker look is achieved.

Highest Regards,
- Chris

Personally, i was really pleased with it because its the color everyone wants on an Indy whip right?
Its already THAT color right out of the box, so in that sense i couldnt ask for more!
However, on NON-Indy whips i still do like that almost WHITE natural Tan.... because it will go thru so many colors during its life.

Personally,

When I got my David Morgan years ago, I thought it was too pink. I had always wanted it to look like the opening sequence of Raiders in the Hovitos temple...that light almost opaque tan.

As the whip aged, it just got browner and browner ala the temple of doom.

But, I was happy nonetheless as to me, the Morgan whips were and always will be THE whips.

Is Morgan still offering them?

Travis T. Cowsill

Heads-up for a David Morgan bullwhip used in KOTCS. On the Bonus Features disc, forward to 8:45 on the Iconic Props featurette. You can see one in the hands of a prop guy on location in Hawaii. Freeze-frame and enhance to check out the turkshead knot. If that's not a DM bullwhip, then I'll eat my AB fedora with ketchup when it arrives.

I think you're right!! Nice find!

Nibs

IndianaKrueger wrote:Personally,
...

Is Morgan still offering them?

Travis T. Cowsill

Yes we are! We are working with about a six month wait list presently..

Info on our work shop
http://www.davidmorgan.com/workshop.html

Here's the page listing the whips we provided for the movies including KOTCS:
http://www.davidmorgan.com/indy_bullwhips.html

Hey will, any chance you have pictures of the stunt whips with the nylon cable? I have been looking for ANY pics of ANY of the whips from ANY of the movies and I can't find a single one!!!

Nibs

knibs7 wrote:Hey will, any chance you have pictures of the stunt whips with the nylon cable? Nibs

Well hrm... * searches around *

why yes....

so, presenting, an Indygear EXCLUSIVE

David's pictures of his twelve and sixteen foot stunt whips for KOTCS

... warning ...

not necessarily screen accurate!







.

^^^^^^^^^^^
Very cool, I was always curious what they looked like too.

Is it steel cable or a rope of some sort?

Well FINALLY!!! You have just lifted a huge weight off my shoulders! Thanks so much! I am curious- do you know where the stunt whips used for the first 3 movies ended up? Thanks again for the pics!

Nibs

Also, do you happen to know which parts of KOTCS the stunt whips were used in?

Nibs

Thanks Nibs for the idea to go find the photos!

That is nylon / polyster / some sort of synthetic rope cord coming out of the whips ( we still have what I believe is the spool with some several feet on it, it looks lighter in color in person to me, but it isn't labeled ).

As an aside, the Mask Of Zorro people sent us their own metal cable David braided around. This nylon or whatever kind of cord it is certainly strong enough to swing from...

That said, as to where in a film which whips of ours were used, or where those whips are now, we haven't had any communications from the stunt or other production people and I frankly don't know.

I can look at KOTCS screen shots, and certainly when I do opinions arise, but i feel that my opinion is only one opinion of a great many, and one heavily tainted by my own interests and emotions, so I shall endeavor to stay away from speculating about when and where our whips appear on screen.

I just realized how stupid my question was... All we have to do is look at the THREE times Indy uses his whip in KOTCS

Nibs

Do you know what happened to the stunt whips from the previous films? Pictures?

Nibs

Nibbs to say it again: "...or where those whips are now, we haven't had any communications from the stunt or other production people and I frankly don't know. "

And, I am not sure what you mean by other indy stunt whips. I'll keep an eye out for images of whips made for the first three films as we go through David's negatives but whereas the rope center makes a whip unusual I'm not sure the lengths greater than 10' provided would have triggered David to take a photo.

PM me with a follow up or find / create a new topic? I am feeling we shouldn't hijack this'n any further.

Nibs, As I understood it David didn’t make any type of stunt whips for the first 3 Indy films, any that where used where made/supplied by the studios. I’ve been tracking the whereabouts of the film whips for years, and so far only a couple of the stunt whips have ever surfaced. One I know was in a private collection in England.

Reguarding the cord that was used in the Indy 4 stunt whips, I have a small section of it. It’s some sort of nylon or other synthetic material, very strong. Will is right it is more of a gun metel grey color then what the photos show.

On a separate note I recently had a rare opportunity to examine and photograph one of the confirmed bullwhips Harrison Ford used in Raiders and in the Temple of Doom. More on that to come, but here is a quick small sample pic for the color comparison.



Dan

This is my David Morgan #453 custom, made in July/August 2001. In the middle is Lauren Wickline's miniature Indy bullwhip crafted in whiskey tan kangaroo to match. Isn't it cute?

[/quote]Here are two pics I have of a screen-used whip (from an auction that occurred in 2007)








-Craig[/quote]

Craig,
did it stipulate, at the auction, which film this whip was used in?
JTW.

It says "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" on the tag next to the whip so if I'm not horribly wrong it was used in LC.

Hmmm..... Is it me, or is that mildew near the fall? How much did that one go for?


Crack On!
Allen

Indiana County Jr. wrote:Hmmm..... Is it me, or is that mildew near the fall? How much did that one go for?

Probably just leather spew or bloom . Sometimes leather, whips included will get a white powdery looking coating on them (or in spots) if they have been in storage for a while or exposed to temperature change extremes. Sometimes it’s mistaken as mold or mildew, but it occurs when the plaiting soaps and leather dressings work their way out of the leather over time and form white powdering or crusty coating on top of the leather. It can be easily whipped off and does not harm the leather like mold or mildew.

I understand that natural tan is the correct color for the first 3 films, but I really like the CS bull whip. I don't know why, I just do.

BullWhipBorton wrote:On a separate note I recently had a rare opportunity to examine and photograph one of the confirmed bullwhips Harrison Ford used in Raiders and in the Temple of Doom. More on that to come, but here is a quick small sample pic for the color comparison.



Dan

Still waiting to hear more about this particular whip!!

I just received my first whip yesterday. A prop run off of the RPF. I was looking to darken the whip up a bit, but feal its best to let it be after reading this very informative thread.

Its a 10 foot,12 plat kip hide. If anyone else was in on this run and have had their whips for some time now, Im curious how much the color has changed.

Tundrarider wrote:BOINKFFD,

BTW, how do you get your jacket and whip to hang sideways like that?

Its my house foundation. Thank you for the info.

My new Paul Nolan 12ft "As Natural Tan as it gets" whip. This pic was taken yesterday, right after it arrived. Thanks Paul.