Club Obi Wan

Hey Gang.

I don't know if anyone else here has stumbled upon these, but here's a link to L.L. Bean's "Year-Round Wool Trousers". They're not the "Dress Chino" NH substitute pants that most here go for (I have a few pairs myself) but they are a wool alternative. And I know that the NH pants are in fact wool, like the film used trousers. You can get them in taupe and they still have the flap back pockets. Off the bat, the only difference from the “Dress Chinos”, besides price and material, seems to be the inward facing pleats.

Let me know what you think. They look like a great pair of pants. Has anyone here purchased them before?

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... &sc4=&sc5=

Thanks.

-Jonesing

I wore my pair to the QM summit too, and they were very comfortable, even in the warm sun of Southern California. They, too, as recommended dry clean only, but VERY comfortable trousers, and very close to the Raiders coloration of the MBA pants. I even had a watch pocket added with no problem at all, which is impossible to do to the MBA pants as there is really no real waist band in the MBA trousers, as known in the pants making world. Anyway, highly recommended by one who wears them. Regards. Michaelson

Very very nice Jonesing! Good find. These look like the best Pants alternative I've seen so far. I'm considering picking up a pair myself. You own a pair of THESE particular pants Michaelson, or were you talking about the dress chinos?

-Rabittooth

I wear the LLB chinos everyday. As stated, these are nothing LIKE the chinos, dress or otherwise. I ordered these year round wool trousers special for my IndyGear collection when they first came out about 3 years ago. Regards. Michaelson p.s. to give credit where credit is due, these were originally 'found' (well, actually 'created' by a committee attack of one on LLB) by original co-founder of IndyDiggs, Max Schulte of Germany. I was 'tipped' about them way back then and bought my own pair. They've floated in and out of the LLB catalog since, but are an excellent alternative.

Well they sure are the bee's knees. I had no idea that these were a commonly known alternative item. Never seen 'em before. I do think I'm gonna pick up a pair.



-Rabittooth

They originally came with unhemmed legs, so I can only assume they still do, since they're considered a 'high end' dress trouser. This is really good, as you can get the length and 'drape' you want by hemming them where YOU want them. They are pretty generous in the leg too, so you have plenty of 'bag' for that Raiders look. I really like mine, if you couldn't tell. (grins) Regards. Michaelson

So I ask Michaelson, between the normal Dress Chinos from LLBean (which I own in Taupe and Light Brown) and these wool pants, are you saying the wool ones are more accurate for Indy Pants? I may have to get a pair as well then....

Thanks, Rabittooth.

I certainly wasn’t trying to take credit for “finding” these gems, but hadn’t known about them myself and thought they’d be a great pair of Indy pants! Nothing is undiscovered anymore, especially in this hobby, so I figured that someone else had stumbled upon them, which is why I asked. But I was definitely game for sharing the “new to me” find with those unfamiliar with them.

Michaelson, thanks for lending your credible review and confirmation that these are indeed a great pair for the “look”.

It looks like Rabittooth and I will be posting our review around the same time on here, cause I’m “Jonesing” to get a pair myself.

Thanks!

-Jonesing

Now, if I could only find a way to get this “permanent” crease out of my Bean Chinos . . .Rabittooth, didn’t you say that the dry cleaners could provide a solution?

...didn't mean to imply that you WERE stealing another's 'thunder', as you're absolutely and totally right...what was once 'old is now new' in a lot of respects, and lot of the information that many of us take for granted is literally unknown stuff to newer fans, and we forget that a lot of it was buried WAY back in old IndyFan archeives. Another good example is Indy Dan's find's of the fedora articles that date back to 1996, posted this morning in the fedora section. They've been out there, discussed at length, then buried. (sorta reminds you of a pocketwatch in Raiders, doesn't it? (grins)) so don't take any of MY remarks in the negative! Please! I'm tickled these items are being discovered again, as a lot of times this stuff was readily available, then pulled from the vendors catalog for some unknown reason. I was not aware that LLB had cataloged them again, and am very pleased someone was on the ball and caught that! I tip my fedora to you, my friend! High regards. Michaelson

Question? They seem to have a very visible checker board weave, pattern. Is this correct, Michaelson?

-S

May I suggest the LL. Bean Dress Chinos in Taupe!

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores ... sc1=Search

No offense taken at all, Michaelson. I knew exactly what you were saying. It was my pleasure to add (or re-affirm) something to this forum that's given me so much in return.

I appreciate the compliments and tip my fedora back at you.

High Regards,

-Jonesing

Hmmm...unfortunate to find that they are only offered in "Classic Fit." I don't know what it is about me, but I STILL have not found ANY LL Bean pants (and I have tried all types of fits...classic, natural, custom hemmed) that drape right on me. For that matter, I have never found any pair of dressy pants that drape right with the Aldens, much less drape like Indy's. I think it is the fact that I need boot cut pants to drape right...without bunchiness in the ankles...and dress pants ALL seem to taper. It drives me nuts. I have seen many great pics on this board and on the main IndyGear site of pants that look great on my fellow gearheads, so I know it can be done, but I have tried and tried (and wasted LOTS of money) to get dress pants that drape right with the Aldens...with no luck. I am used to wearing Gap or Old Navy Khakis that have a nice PERFECTLY straight leg with a wide open cuff at the bottom...I HATE tapers. Anyway I guess I will continue the search...

-John

Michaelson, how many belt loops do those LLB pant have? I do like the NH pants, but they sure could use a couple of more belt loops. Were those the taupe colored pants you had on the QM?

...I missed several questions above....The pair I have do not have any type of 'checker board pattern' at all. They may have changed the material, but I really think it's the pixels in the picture that is throwing this off. I'd still suggest you call their customer service line and confirm this. As to the chino vs. this pants....no, they're not patterned exactly like the chinos. They have more 'room' in the back side (for those of us who are gracefully 'settling' in our later years. How's THAT for wordsmithing? (grins)) and I have to disagree with the observation that they are more 'classic' in design, and therefore do not have the proper drape. Now my legs aren't sticks by any means, but then I don't lift weights like _ either (grins) and I think they're exactly the same as the MBA trousers which I've also owned. Mine have absolutely no taper at all. Like I said above, mine were obtained 3 years ago. Knowing LLB, they tend to NOT leave a good thing alone, so there's no guarantee's that you'll get what I have, but it's supposedly the exact same item. And yes, taupe is the way to go. That's what mine are, and they are very close. Jess, I really can't remember the number of loops, but I believe they're the same as the chinos, and they have 7. You're right, the MBA's seem to have left one or two off, but then those pants were designed and based on 1970's trouser designs, and really needed a wide leather belt. Look at the extra room you have after you put in the military trouser belt! Man, I hated those 1970's designs for that very reason! Yep, those were the pants I was wearing at the summit. Regards. Michaelson

Every time I try to use my web belt with the NH, it just looks ... well, wrong. I'm thinking of having someone reduce the size of the belt loops, maybe that will help. Thanks for the information.

Indiana Josh wrote:May I suggest the LL. Bean Dress Chinos in Taupe!

Mine will be here this week.

....I will be VERY interested in your report when you get yours. I'll be interested in how they have changed (if any) in the past 3 years. Thanks! Regards. Michaelson

Indiana_Jonesing wrote:...Now, if I could only find a way to get this “permanent” crease out of my Bean Chinos . . .Rabittooth, didn’t you say that the dry cleaners could provide a solution?

Yeah...I took my NH trousers to get hemmed and had them press out the center crease at the same time. Makes a big big difference in their appearance too!



-Rabittooth

Say, I was looking at my LLBean catalog in the mail, and it looks like all three versions of these trousers (no pleats, pleats natual and classic fit) all have rear pockets with a button-through, but no flap. Is this the real case or not. This may be the deciding factor in getting them or not. Whoever has ordered these and you get them, let us know. And if not, if I order them undone for the legs, would there be enough material left over perhaps to have a tailor MAKE the flaps for me? Just wondering. Thanks all!

...have the flaps, and yes, there was MORE than enough extra material in the legs should that be needed. Like I said, LLB is notorious for changing models, even though they say they're the same thing. Regards. Michaelson

Say Minnesota, be careful that your looking at the "Dress" Chinos (Pants), the regular Double L Chinos pictured there in the Fall catalog are not, and from quickly looking through my old catalogs, have not come with the flaps you mention for quite some time, if ever. Although, as Michaelson points out, it may be possible that you can get them made from extra material if you want to go through that trouble - but then that’s true with most any pants.

It might be best to use their site and you will see that the pants you want to look at are listed under the "Dress Pants" category. You will find the wool to be nearly twice the price though. But, the cottons are only a little more than the Double L’s and still come with button-flap pockets, but also inward-facing pleats.

You also have to watch when buying pants to make sure the flaps are on BOTH pockets. I once walked out of a Dept. store with great Indy pants until I noticed in the parking lot that the flap was only on the left side.

-Rabittooth

Let's not get our 'trousers' mixed up here too. We started out taking about the year round wool LLB pants as an alternative, then switched to a different trouser in mid stream, which is their chino, and a completely different item. They have offered the dress chino in a pleated front, and flaps on both back pockets, but I haven't seen a pair of them for years. Also, I've never seen any of the chinos offered with anything but a finished leg length. The wool trousers are the ones that come with the unhemmed leg, so don't get the two mixed up. They're different items completely. I wear standard plain front chinos from LLB almost every day, and they're extremely comfortable, but would never be a substitution for an alternative for the Indy trouser. The old dress chino I mentioned above came close, but no real close colors. The wool does come VERY close in the taupe. The taupe in the chino do not., or at least the one pair I had did not. They were a shade darker than the wool version, and in that version looked completely different, even though they were cataloged by LLB as taupe, I really think they were a variation. Just a tip there. Regards. Michaelson

The original Pants in this thread are Perfect subsitutes for the Real thing.. Very good match.

Michaelson wrote:....I will be VERY interested in your report when you get yours. I'll be interested in how they have changed (if any) in the past 3 years. Thanks! Regards. Michaelson

I received them about a week ago. Sorry for the delay in the report.
These pants are great! I had LLBean alter them to my inseam and they fit perfect. Very soft and very durable. There is a reddish tinge or burnt umber hue to the pants. They look very similar to what we see in LC. Finding pants that fit me is often a challenge, LLBean has made it easy.

I will definately be back for more.

Cheers,
Pyr.

That's great Pyr, but just so there is no mistake since this thread seemed to start out talking about the wool “Dress Chinos,” then someone mentioned the Regular or was it the Natural “Classic Fit Dress Chinos,” and then “checker board pattern” pants got thrown in somewhere, and then the “Double L Chinos,” inward facing pleats, then three other versions someone seen in a catalog, all hemmed, and...

...well I seem to have gotten dizzy, fallen off my deluxe ergomatic chair, and hit my head on my highly polished genuine fake mahogany wood desk on the way down rendering me even more senseless for the rest of the afternoon. Do you have the catalog number of the pants and color please or possible directions to the URL? [Insert several additional old COW 'confused' icons here - a stream of them]

And I hesitate to even bring up an old thread I read some time ago, but do the LL Beans you have now, in your possession, at this time, are they boot cut, or if not boot cut, will they fit nicely over the Chippewa Engineer Boots you kindly posted a pic of you wearing awhile back.

I might get shot down for saying this, but based on my arduous experiences in finding the perfect pants (funny how I can find a shirt, a hat, a jacket and a bag that I LOVE and that fit the bill perfectly...but I can't find the pants [no, I won't spend 250 bucks for pants]!) I feel that there are NO LLBean Indy-like dress pants that are boot cut...which is why I sulk in misery...

-John

John,

Oh, noooooooo!

Let's not get our 'trousers' mixed up here too

Thanks for the translation for us British, Michaelson - you really speak English very well

Jock123

JohnNdy wrote:I feel that there are NO LLBean Indy-like dress pants that are boot cut..

Before I post what I want to say on this thread, will sombody explain the difference between bootcut and non-bootcut?

Thanks,
Pyr

Well, I’ll give it a try.

Most dress pants worn now-a-days are slightly tapered at the ankle, they are not meant to be worn with a traditional boot. If you were to try hiking, climbing, or just sitting around and getting up on a regular basis let alone doing everything HF would do in a film, you would constantly have to be adjusting the bottoms of your pants back over your boots, the pants hem would either constantly get hooked on the back or side of the boot or gather up and bunch on top of were they should break naturally on that boot. There simply is not enough material around the bottom of the hem to keep them loosely fit over a wider and somewhat taller boot as you see in ROTLA. (I might be exaggerating, but you get the feeling HF could almost pull those pants on over his boots.)

With the (expensive) MBA pants, you would not have this problem because they are simply very wide bottoms as those in the films as was the custom with dress pants of the day. This hopefully is something like we all hope the LL Beans are, wide bottomed, or at least wide enough to avoid any constant adjustment that you hear many on this board, like John, express concern about.

Thanks Pyr for your help.

If you were to try hiking, climbing, or just sitting around and getting up on a regular basis let alone doing everything HF would do in a film, you would constantly have to be adjusting the bottoms of your pants back over your boots, the pants hem would either constantly get hooked on the back or side of the boot or gather up and bunch on top of were they should break naturally on that boot. There simply is not enough material around the bottom of the hem to keep them loosely fit over a wider and somewhat taller boot as you see in ROTLA

This is EXACTLY what I experience with the LLBeans...not so much slipping up and over (although that does happen when walking up stairs) as much as bunching up. A good boot-cut trouser has about a 19 or 20 inch (in circumference) opening at the bottom of the leg...where your foot comes out. This circumference is maintained straight up...no taper. 20 inches seems like a lot...but when you are wearing the pants...it looks right and drapes nicely over the boot...the back of the pant leg falling at your heel, and the front falling over the lowest lace of an Alden. Dress pants these days (LL Beans included) in general have a slight taper at the bottom. It may start out as 20 inches in circumference around, say, your thigh, but by the bottom it is typically a 16 or 17 inch opening...those three or four inches make the crucial difference. Rixter, it is interesting that you mentioned that the non-tapered dress pants were the style of the day back then...I wish it was as such today!

-John

Pyroxene wrote: Before I post what I want to say on this thread, will sombody explain the difference between bootcut and non-bootcut?

Pyro,
I don't know if this will give you a clear visual or not, but the jeans I'm wearing with my cowboy boots here are boot cut...

http://home.earthlink.net/~indygirl7/fa ... g_whip.jpg

Pyroxene wrote:
Before I post what I want to say on this thread, will sombody explain the difference between bootcut and non-bootcut?

Nevermind. I didn't even know that Indy's pants were boot cut. I wonder if LLBean would be willing to do some special alterations to make them work.

Hmmmm
Pyr.

Hey Pyro! Quick question since you've now got the pants (congrats by the way!). Do the LLBean Wool Dress Pants have pocket flaps on the back? I have the chinos and they do, but I'm not sure with the Wool Pants. I've seen pictures of them in the catalog and on their website both ways (with and without), and I'm not sure if they come with them or not. The discription stated (I think) a button-thru design which I think means no flaps. But I could be wrong. And did you get the classic fit, natural fit, or what? If these bad boys have flaps, I will definately be getting a pair.....

Minnesota_Jones wrote:Hey Pyro! Quick question since you've now got the pants (congrats by the way!). Do the LLBean Wool Dress Pants have pocket flaps on the back?

I got the Chinos too. Sorry for the confusion but it sounds like you and I have the same thing.

I will say this. L.L. Bean's service and quality are some of the best that I have ever seen. I purchased pants from outlet stores and the like but with them, I was able to order pants with my inseam and they fit great!.

As the cooler months approach, I will definately be getting the wool pants.

PYr.

I emailed LLBean about the flaps or no flaps on the Wool Trousers (not the chinos which definately have them, I'm wearing a pair now...) and here is their response...

Dear Mr Helde,

Thank you for your inquiry about the Year Round trousers item 38544.

This item has no flaps on the back pockets for both the plain and pleated versions. I hope this helps and I apologize for any confusion.

Thank you for your interest in L.L.Bean. If you need further assistance you may call 1-800-441-5713 or email. We may be reached 24 hrs a day 7 days a week for your convenience.

Sincerely,
Doug B
L.L.Bean Customer Service
www.llbean.com
1-800-441-5713

So there it is. I may order a pair anyway, get them without an inseam, and take 'em to a tailor for hemming and creating some flaps.

Well, I got the LLBean Wool Pants. They're nice. Very nice. The Taupe is slightly darker than the Chino Taupe. I got them unhemmed and will take them to a Tailor tonight for hemming and taking the extra material for creating some flaps for the rear pockets (they did not have them as they told me they wouldn't). But I'd swear they're a lighter material than even the chinos. And I'll have the front and rear creases "ironed" out so they're gone. But I'm sure they'll look even more Indyish when I get them back. Hopefully they'll be done before the Texas Summit and I'll wear 'em then!

That sounds great. That's a great idea about the extra material. I am looking forward to seeing them.

Pyr.

Yeah, if they had flaps, I would have had LLBean hemm (spelling?) them for me. But I thought an extra 4 to 6 inches on the legs would be more than enough for flap making. Now I hope the Tailor doesn't cost an arm and a leg for doing all this. If it's a lot, I probably should have just gotton the MBA Pants. But I thought this way I'd save $, and have a nice wool pair of Indy's. We shall see....... (to be continued)

Well, the pants are definately nice. I went to a tailor and he hemmed them (nice), created pocket flaps (nice) but didn't put the button holes through (not so nice ). And the creases on the front and back of the legs were still there too (again, not so nice ). Our iron fixed the creases, and I'll have to Jerry Rig the pockets by sewing the buttons on the front of the flaps for now. Someday I'll get them done correctly. Needless to say, that Tailor WON'T be getting any more of my business. And what he charged me I could have spent another $30 on top of it all and just went with the Noel Howard pants. Oh well, you live and learn.

However, these are great looking pants, you'll have to spend a few $'s to make them more Indyish (pocket flaps, creases, etc) but they're very light and great feeling.

Oh Michaelson, they also have a pocketwatch pocket in the right front pocket! Thought you'd like to know....

Well, I just got my Fall 2002 catalog yesterday and am looking at the Dress Chinos on page 62. I see Classic Fit w/ inward facing pleats and Natural Fit w/ outward facing pleats. The description says, "Available in trim Classic Fit or roomier Natural Fit." And yes, they have flaps on the back pockets.

I take it the roomier Natural fit will have the correct pleats as well as a larger (but not boot-cut) bottom? Please reply as I would like some input before ordering.

BTW, on page 64, the Year-Round Wool Trousers pic clearly shows that the pant is not currently offered w/ faps on the back pockets but is offered in Classic or Natural Fits.

Let me know and thanks for everyone's help,

I wish I would have paid more attention when ordering mine. I didn't know LLBean had so many choices until after I had placed my order. I will see what I can find out.

Indiana Joe wrote:BTW, on page 64, the Year-Round Wool Trousers pic clearly shows that the pant is not currently offered w/ faps on the back pockets but is offered in Classic or Natural Fits.

Yup, Chinos have the flaps (I have Taupe AND Light Brown) and the Year Round Wools do NOT have the flaps. They're still nice, but you'll have to have flaps created for them.

Thanks, guys.

Let me know about that Natural Fit or Classic Fit thing. I'm pretty sure it's Natural Fit I'm going for but I just want to get it right. You know how it goes with all the choices......

Thank God that we have all these choices available to us now, you know? I understand from reading other threads that until recently (past couple of years) this was not the case.

ALWAYS call the company and check and double check the details of the product you're ordering. I have an original pair of the wool summer weight trousers as originally discussed here, and mine DO have the rear pocket flaps. I read above in the reply from LLB that they no longer have them. The product description usually remains the same, but those little details we look for seem to change from catalog to catalog. Like I've growled about before, the plain front dress Chinos have had a watch pocket on front for over 15 years. This past Christmas, LLB changed supplier and eliminated the pocket. No mention of it in their catalog, and it wasn't discovered until I received my pants. Their response? 'Oh well, sorry about that.' So I can't suggest it strongly enough, ask first THEN order. Regards. Michaelson

Orvis has a pair of pants they call the “Super 100s Three-Season,” which are three-season worsted wool pants with forward pleats and side-seam pockets that come in ‘taup’ also with flap pockets, at least when I got them several months ago. The good thing is they come in any length finished up to 35” at no extra charge and only a few days to do the alterations to your specifications. The not so good part is they are now $125, which isn’t too much less than the MBA’s off the peg (but with unfinished bottoms and no alterations in length). But way back when I got them from Orvis they were on sale for I believe $75. Item #SI23RL for those interested.

I think an update to the Pants page will be in order someday. Updated with the Orvis pants, LLBean Wools, LLBean Chinos, and whatever other pants we find. And if it's like the shirt page, that would be great. I do like the wool pants from LLBean, but the whole flap thing did bother me. But I did order with the knowledge of no flaps, I just had no idea the tailor's bill would jack them up from $75 to the NH range. I think my next pair of pants will be the NH's, just want to lose a little more weight before I order them... But I'm sure they'll be in my possession before the QM next year.

Hey Rixter,

Do those Orvis pants come in boot cut? And do they have that terrible PERMENANT crease line in them that the LL BEAN chinos have now adopted?

A yes and a no here in that order and Orvis will have a new customer!

Oh yeah, and how does the Orvis taupe compare to the Bean taupe?

Thanks a lot!

-Jonesing