How do you get that famous Indy swoop on a lid?

Doeindy · Post by **Doeindy** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:18 am

I have been trying hard to get that swoop on my lid but when I try and curve the front brim down I end up getting light creases that point downwards. How can I get that look; I have a wool felt; I just need some help as I am useless wih hats.

Many thanks,

Paul.

blueoakleyz · Post by **blueoakleyz** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:38 am

AFIK at this point it is caused by "The turn"
try researching that and it may help answer your questions

gobo · Post by **gobo** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:39 am

Pop the bashes out, and while looking in the mirror, turn the hat clockwise while wearing it, until the brim looks right. Then rebash the hat.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:46 am

Ok...

Johnny Fedora wrote:As far as turning the hat there are a few thoughts on this. (And I know going into it that I'll leave something out but...) As near as we can tell (thanks 3 thoubucks and Steve) the Raiders Fedora was in key sequences and I quote..."The front pinch in the Raiders crown was installed about 2/3 of a inch OFF CENTER. Therefore, the hat was worn "turned" about 2/3 inch OFF CENTER.
Thus, every element of the hat is asymmetrical, and, the hat is actively coping with distortion, giving it a certain lively tension." To sum up, it's this turn that gives the Raiders Fedora the distinctive brim warp and thus adds to the look so many of us look for in the Raiders hat. For more info on this check out...www.raidershat.com. Reverse engineering at its' finest.

Johnny

morethanatimelord · Post by **morethanatimelord** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:28 am

i would like to know this too

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:52 am

Uh...look above.

Johnny

morethanatimelord · Post by **morethanatimelord** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:45 am

yes but in laymans terms it doesnt really explain or show how its done...well certainly not to a first time basher like me anyway

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:13 pm

Okay - in laymans' terms: you take an open crowned hat, that's not bashed. You put it on just like normal, perfectly straight, and then grab the brim and turn the hat to the right, WHILE it's on your head, until the brim distorts and looks good to you. Then leave it where it is, and bash it there, like normal, so that when you put it on next time, the brim distorts itself.

Howzzat?

I don't think you'll be able to do this with a wool hat though. Your hat needs to a) be reshapable, and b) be reshapable. I haven't seen a good wool hat that seems to enjoy having its bash changed. They're pretty stubborn, in my experience. Once in a while you find one, but even then, the brim doesn't want to change either and instead of a "cool" Indy swoop you get a reeeeeeeeally funky one.

Shane

gobo · Post by **gobo** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:17 pm

This hat is turned:

Note how the bow is at the left temple, instead of directly above the ear.
You've probably seen kids who wear baseball caps sideways. It's basically the same.

morethanatimelord · Post by **morethanatimelord** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:46 pm

McFly wrote:Okay - in laymans' terms: you take an open crowned hat, that's not bashed. You put it on just like normal, perfectly straight, and then grab the brim and turn the hat to the right, WHILE it's on your head, until the brim distorts and looks good to you. Then leave it where it is, and bash it there, like normal, so that when you put it on next time, the brim distorts itself.

Howzzat?

I don't think you'll be able to do this with a wool hat though. Your hat needs to a) be reshapable, and b) be reshapable. I haven't seen a good wool hat that seems to enjoy having its bash changed. They're pretty stubborn, in my experience. Once in a while you find one, but even then, the brim doesn't want to change either and instead of a "cool" Indy swoop you get a reeeeeeeeally funky one.

Shane

thats a perfect, clearcut explanation. thank you

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:10 pm

Here's a visual demonstration I stole from one of my own posts: Observe where the ribbon is, that is key. Although in my case it's a lot more up front than it would be on those with regular or long oval heads.

Here's a "moderate" turn.

Notice because I have a round oval head, I have to turn a lot more to get even close to the right amount of distortion.

Here's a 90 degree turn.

If turned even farther, the effect of the turn to create the hallmarks of the SOC hat is unmistakable albeit exaggerated. There is ridiculous reverse taper from the front view, and side views develop the distinctive bird beak brim.

Aggie · Post by **Aggie** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:40 pm

Marcus, do you have a picture of the other side for the 90 degree hat?

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:50 pm

I don't, but it doesn't matter, because if you turn the hat 90 degrees then it becomes symmetrical again, which is something you don't want in a Raiders turned hat. Basically it looks the same as the other side if you do 90 degrees, but in a Raiders hat, the other side shouldn't have the "bird beak".

INDIANA_7 · Post by **INDIANA_7** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:16 pm

Hi,

I've always used a method of accomplishing the swoop by placing the hat crown down and pushing the sides inward >0< so that they almost touch, you'll start to notice the front and rear portion of the brim curve downwards. You can do this a couple of times. Then while holding the sides pushed together, you can place it while it's still in the upside down position over steam. After that, turn the hat around (crown up) repeat the steam process, still holding the sides together.Then you can take it away from the steam and place it somewhere on it's crown. Repeat the process until you achieve the look you desire. You can even give the sides a slight curl upward if you choose. The end results are great!

Best regards,
Indiana 7

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:05 pm

morethanatimelord wrote:thats a perfect, clearcut explanation. thank you

Good! I'm glad you didn't feel insulted... I thought I may have made it TOO clearcut. But I'm glad it helped you!

Shane

morethanatimelord · Post by **morethanatimelord** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:44 am

McFly wrote:
morethanatimelord wrote:thats a perfect, clearcut explanation. thank you
Good! I'm glad you didn't feel insulted... I thought I may have made it TOO clearcut. But I'm glad it helped you!

Shane

lol no certainly not, its hard to find good clear explantions for complete fedora newbies who have never done anything like a hat bash before. im good at building custom models and custom action figures but anything like this is beyond me so thanksd for the clear explanation

Doeindy · Post by **Doeindy** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:55 pm

Yes I have a wool hat, and the problem I am having and it is leaving with only the option not to turn the hat is the fact that the swoop on any turn I make with my hat leaves a wavvy looking swoop and not anything like the classic Indy (bird beak) swoop.

Maybe I need to purchase a AB one day, or a MHJ. I like the look of both lids, and this may be where the problem lies; I do not own the right hat.

I like my hat alot; I rebashed it to get rid of the Tear drop look, so I could bash it into the Indy crease (sorry I do not know the proper name of the Indy bash). The hat looks OK, but the rear brim appears to look longer than the front; this is not an Indy lenth brim; in which I found out eventually.

The hat looks great from the front but not that good from the sides.

Below is a picture of the hat on my Nug.

This is a picture with the rear brim up in a tear drop bash:

And rear brim down in a Indy bash:

And from the front:

What do you think?

Paul.

Darth Indiana · Post by **Darth Indiana** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:00 am

yeah, you definitely need to get a new hat. i've tried it before just for fun, and I don't think it's POSSIBLE to get even an OK Raiders hat out of a wool hat.
i turned and bashed my Federation III, and ended up with a rather nice swoop.

Alex · Post by **Alex** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:34 pm

Here is what I did. I accidentally turned the fedora when I bashed it, to my surprise, and started pinching it. Once I was happy with it, I started refining the shape and looking for that Raiders bash. I realized they stretched it long ways to get the dip in the front so dramatic. Enjoy.

morethanatimelord · Post by **morethanatimelord** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:36 am

thanks for this tip its really helped me get that dip on my brim that i always wanted

Long John Silver · Post by **Long John Silver** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:53 am

gobo wrote:This hat is turned:

Note how the bow is at the left temple, instead of directly above the ear.
You've probably seen kids who wear baseball caps sideways. It's basically the same.

Thanks a million! That worked perfectly on my Fed 4 Deluxe!

Regards,
LJS

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:00 am

Forgive my ignorance, but I just don't get the point of turning the hat. Is it to make it more SA, or does it actually improve the shape of the hat? I would think that you would put the hat on your head so it's sitting naturally, and then start to shape it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:22 am

Yeah, it just makes it SA. I don't practice the turn either. Makes the hats uncomfortable for me.

Regards! Michaelson

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:24 am

Mostly for more screen accuracy, but that's not the complete story either as Indy isn't the first to do so. As for improving the shape, that's sort of subjective. Some people like the lack of symmetry, others don't.

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:43 am

Good to know, I've always been a perfectionist and have gone to great lengths to make my hats perfectly symmetrical (or as perfectly symmetrical as possible).

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:44 am

I've found when I pull a round oval hat over my long oval head, I get the same results. No NEED for a 'turn'. It happens naturally.

Ford has a long oval head as well. Could it be it just....happened? Novel idea, that one is!

Regards! Michaelson

techrtr · Post by **techrtr** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:24 pm

I've got a very long oval head too.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:26 pm

Michaelson wrote:I've found when I pull a round oval hat over my long oval head, I get the same results. No NEED for a 'turn'. It happens naturally.

Ford has a long oval head as well. Could it be it just....happened? Novel idea, that one is!

Regards! Michaelson

I know what you mean. I have a hard time not having a tiny bit of a turn in a hat I don't want one. My CS hat from AB has a slight turn to it but I think most people would have to turn the hat to get that "Raiders swoop."

Marcus Brody · Post by **Marcus Brody** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:16 pm

Ford has a long oval head as well. Could it be it just....happened? Novel idea, that one is!

Yeah, but a long oval head worn straight inside a regular oval hat or a regular oval head inside round oval hat wouldn't create the exact same effect as the turn either. It's similar, but it would lack the asymmetry, as both sides would develop the bird beak brim instead of just one side as with the Raiders hat. Similarly, putting my round oval head into a hat that has been turned 90 degrees creates an overly symmetrical caricature of the Raiders hat instead.

Also, was the Raiders hat made as a long oval or regular? If it was a regular, wearing the hat off center must have been really uncomfortable for Ford' long oval head. I think considering the relatively long profile of Ford's hat with a lack of fore and back taper and the bow too far to the front seems to indicate that his hat was a long oval that is off center.

Who knows why any of this was done though? I have a vintage Whippet hat was most definitely bashed off center, but I have no idea if it was an accident or was intentional for whatever reason. Perhaps it's no different than people wearing baseball caps sideways or backwards these days.

ichnob · Post by **ichnob** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:27 pm

I like the stretching idea, Alex. It'll help give the sides a good shape and re-enforce the "turn" on my slightly turned hat.