Jacka's KotCS Bullwhips Were Saddle Tan?

[Castor Dioscuri]

From the new writeup:

[Indy IV's bullwhips] were 10-foot long, short handled versions of Terry’s Australian-style bullwhips done in 12-plait dark brown kangaroo hide overlay with a double plaited belly.

...The leather used to on the 12-plait overly was drum stuffed saddle tan kangaroo from Packer Leather...

...The turks heads were tied with the same drum stuffed saddle tan...

http://indygear.com/images/gear/whip/tjhandles.jpg (Terry Jacka’s KotCS style bullwhip handles)

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that mean that Jacka's whips in the new movie would all be saddle tan? Especially considering that the photo, which is by Jacka of his KotCS whips presumably prior to sending it out, looks... well, saddle tan!

If so, I guess the production crew must have dyed and/or distressed the bullwhips to get that signature KotCS bullwhip look, and therefore, by that logic, those colors that we've all come to associate with a Jacka would have been created by the production crew!

Assuming I'm right so far, then wouldn't it be logical to assume that perhaps David Morgan's and Joe Strain's whips may have ended up getting some screen time as well, and we only *THOUGHT* we saw a Jacka, since that would mean that all (or most) production whips would have been dyed to get that look.

Basically to summarize, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I'm reading the write-up right, Jacka's whips were plain ol' saddle tan when they were sent over, same like Strain's. Jacka's whips were then dyed to get that brandy/whiskey color combination, and we assumed that all whips with those colors were Jacka's. However, since Jacka started out as saddle tan and were dyed by the crew, perhaps Strain's whips went through the same process. Which means that Strain's whips may have been featured in the new movie just as much as Jacka's!

And as for David Morgan's natural tan whips, that would account for the light colored whips that we glimpse occassionally in the movie, since I'm guessing they wouldn't dye to the same extent as a saddle tan whip.

So, does anybody know if I'm right in this presumption?

[JMObi]

I don't know too much about the color, but I just came from seeing the movie for the second time, and this time (due to the fact that I'm thinking of buying a Terry Jacka whip) I looked carefully at the whip whenever it was visible. My conclusion is that it is a TJ for every shot I saw.

You can tell from the profile of the handle and knots, the wrist loop thinness, and the thickness of the thong straight after the handle. I could be wrong, but I didn't see a Strain or a Morgan once, and I know what to look for. The other giveaway that it's a TJ is the smoothness of the overlay due to the continuation of finer strands down the thong, because of the 8 instead of 6 plt point. Just my opinion. What do others think?

[Bernardodc]

I'm with you Jon. Since I wasn't really enjoying the film, all my attention was devoted to whip. To me, it was the Jacka all the time.

Even if the Morgans and Strains got the same dye treatment, it would be really easy for someone who knows these whips to tell them apart from a Jacka, since the later is so different. Like JMObi said, the thin strands, the height(or size) of the ring knot (Terry used a much bigger 7 part 6 bight knot than Morgan's or Strain's 5 part 4 bight), the distintive shape of the turk's head, the thin and long wrist loop (in most scenes sporting the Delongis knot to make it shorter), the shape of the handle, the thickness of the thong after the handle (much thicker than either a Morgan or a Strain), etc.


Bernardo

[BullWhipBorton]

While the whips started out saddle tan, The photo on the main site was taken right after it was made, they darkened up considerably and fast! They where also hand dyed by Anthony D when he received them at the request of the Props Master, to make them look older and more used.

I’ve seen how much the saddle tan leather Terry used darkened though, it turned to a rich dark brown and it looked nothing like the saddle tan we are used to seeing from Joe or anyone else for that matter. It’s the same leather as the bullwhips he sent to the Australian Stock Saddle co, and we can see how much darker those are even with out the dye treatment.

All the main whips used where Terry’s, at least as far as I could tell and i was looking pretty closely. For anyone who is fimiliar with Terrys, Davids and Joes whips, It’s pretty easy to tell them apart by the silhouette. There was one whip shown right after the rocket sled stopped that looked to me a bit differnt but it was so quick it was hard to tell for sure. Once the DVD is released it will be easier to go frame by frame and check.

The one exception I believe is the bullwhip used in the swinging sequence at the warehouse, which both myself and Will Morgan feel is one of the long Morgan bullwhips that where made with Nylon line running though it just for that purpose. Terry didnt make any whips like that, where as the Morgans did.

Dan

[Castor Dioscuri]

Ah well, there goes that hypothesis!

However, I do wonder why the crew dyed and darkened Jacka's whips so much and to that distinct, darker knot look. Certainly wasn't in keeping with the previous film's continuity...

[coronado3]

well, there was that whip in Raiders that had a dark ring knot...

[BullWhipBorton]

It may not have been completely intentional.

When new, the knots where lighter then the main body of the whips. No plaiting soap had been used when they where tied on, which is what helped darken the handle and thong as much as it did.

A heaver application of dye might have been needed to darken the knots , at least to the point that to where they matched the rest of the whip on camera. It could have also or the more taken the dye differently then the rest of the whip did.

Dan

[hollywood1340]

Continuity after 20 years? Things change. I'm glad they changed it up. I know I don't wear the same clothes or crack the same whip as when I was....6.