original Raiders gloves sold
Moderators: Mike, Cajunkraut, Tennessee Smith
-
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 864
- Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:11 pm
- Location: Redmond, Washington, USA
original Raiders gloves sold
On our favorite auction site for $2560. For some reason the seller opened a parallel buy it now auction that ended in a couple of hours, then ended the original auction. I thought the bidding would go higher.
-
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:25 pm
- Location: Rhode Island: The Tiny State That's Actually NOT An Island...and no, I'm not from "Quahog"
I think whoever got these MAY have been duped I say this because (I stated this in a previous thread) you can see the word "LARGE" printed across Indy's right palm when he and Sallah uncover the Well of Souls ("Asps! Very Dangerous!...."). That and the "legend" says that HF borrowed the gloves from a stage hand - they wouldn't have "HF" written in them if this were the case, not unless the stage hand's name was Henry Flannagan or Hector Fernandez (suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
- Bufflehead Jones
- Legendary Adventurer
- Posts: 3191
- Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:11 pm
- Location: Maryland
-
- Museum Curator
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:47 am
-
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 587
- Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:39 pm
- Location: Florida
-
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:25 pm
- Location: Rhode Island: The Tiny State That's Actually NOT An Island...and no, I'm not from "Quahog"
"You're wrong, Quiz Kid."theinterchange wrote:Teddy Hoosvelt.Indiana Neri wrote:(suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
"I've got it! I've got it!....Thomas Heddison!"
-
- Museum Curator
- Posts: 1705
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:47 am
I couldn't remember the Thomas Heddison off the top of my head. It's been a while since I've seen that particular short.Indiana Neri wrote:"You're wrong, Quiz Kid."theinterchange wrote:Teddy Hoosvelt.Indiana Neri wrote:(suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
"I've got it! I've got it!....Thomas Heddison!"
- raider 57
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:34 pm
- Location: Just rumours really,somewhere in Asia I think....
The other guess in that Stooge episode was "Teddy Hooseavelt". I think!!theinterchange wrote:I couldn't remember the Thomas Heddison off the top of my head. It's been a while since I've seen that particular short.Indiana Neri wrote:"You're wrong, Quiz Kid."theinterchange wrote:Teddy Hoosvelt.Indiana Neri wrote:(suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
"I've got it! I've got it!....Thomas Heddison!"
-raider 57
edit----OOPS, Sorry you guys already got it!
Last edited by raider 57 on Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Zombie Jones
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 343
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:29 am
- Location: So. California
This might be true if all the scenes in which Ford wore the gloves were filmed on the same day; highly unlikely. As such, regardless of who Ford borrowed them from, the moment they were captured on film they would have become Indy's gloves and the wardrobe department would collect them at the end of that day of filming and identify them as Indy's/Ford's gloves for use in subsequent shots. This, of course, in no way proves whether or not the auctioned gloves are authentic.Indiana Neri wrote:I think whoever got these MAY have been duped I say this because (I stated this in a previous thread) you can see the word "LARGE" printed across Indy's right palm when he and Sallah uncover the Well of Souls ("Asps! Very Dangerous!...."). That and the "legend" says that HF borrowed the gloves from a stage hand - they wouldn't have "HF" written in them if this were the case, not unless the stage hand's name was Henry Flannagan or Hector Fernandez (suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
-
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 864
- Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:11 pm
- Location: Redmond, Washington, USA
Right, and with different scenes being filmed in Tunisia, both first and second unit, as well as Elstree, it is hard to imagine just one pair of gloves being used.Zombie Jones wrote:This might be true if all the scenes in which Ford wore the gloves were filmed on the same day; highly unlikely. As such, regardless of who Ford borrowed them from, the moment they were captured on film they would have become Indy's gloves and the wardrobe department would collect them at the end of that day of filming and identify them as Indy's/Ford's gloves for use in subsequent shots. This, of course, in no way proves whether or not the auctioned gloves are authentic.Indiana Neri wrote:I think whoever got these MAY have been duped I say this because (I stated this in a previous thread) you can see the word "LARGE" printed across Indy's right palm when he and Sallah uncover the Well of Souls ("Asps! Very Dangerous!...."). That and the "legend" says that HF borrowed the gloves from a stage hand - they wouldn't have "HF" written in them if this were the case, not unless the stage hand's name was Henry Flannagan or Hector Fernandez (suddenly I'm reminded of the Three Stooges short when the three of them are tailors and they're trying to figure out who's initials are "TH"). Just my two-cents, but what do I know?:roll:
- Puppetboy
- Vendor
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:57 am
- Location: Southern California
- Contact:
The story I've heard is that the as soon as they wrapped for the day using the borrowed gloves, they sent them to Western Costumes for duplicates to be made. Three days later the duplicates were delivered to wardrobe. I forget how many duplicates were made.
The pair I saw at the Profiles in History auction were Wells Lamonts and were marked "HF 3" on the elastic on the inside. Perhaps this was the borrowed pair that then got put into the wardrobe department's rotation.
At any rate, gloves are easy to get and distress. Faking them couldn't be easier.
I am even susupicious of the props coming from Elstree these days. They have an amazing supply of these "original" props to cash in on.
There are many more people in the prop conterfeiting business than you can imagine. You wouldn't believe how often my things are passed off as originals, always with a great provenance story and phony paperwork. I try to intervene whenever I'm aware of it, and I've been able to thwart most of the attempts, but I'm sure there are many I'm not aware of.
The pair I saw at the Profiles in History auction were Wells Lamonts and were marked "HF 3" on the elastic on the inside. Perhaps this was the borrowed pair that then got put into the wardrobe department's rotation.
At any rate, gloves are easy to get and distress. Faking them couldn't be easier.
I am even susupicious of the props coming from Elstree these days. They have an amazing supply of these "original" props to cash in on.
There are many more people in the prop conterfeiting business than you can imagine. You wouldn't believe how often my things are passed off as originals, always with a great provenance story and phony paperwork. I try to intervene whenever I'm aware of it, and I've been able to thwart most of the attempts, but I'm sure there are many I'm not aware of.
The pair that recently sold on eBay may well have been the pair that showed up on the Profiles in History auction late last year, as Todd mentions above. That pair sold for $2200 (as I remember). I believe this same eBayer decided to turn around and resell them - I guess he/she needed the money more than a piece of 'alleged' film history.
-Craig
-Craig
- TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
TheMechanic wrote:Anbody have pictures of these gloves? I'd like to see them. Thanks.
Mechanic,
Here's the original Profiles in History auction photo -
And here are the photos that were posted in the recent eBay auction -
The right glove is unfortunately folded over in the bottom photo so you can't see if the word "LARGE" is printed near the cuff, as you and Indiana Neri have pointed out in the other glove thread - http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?t=32498 - for those that haven't seen it.
-Craig
Last edited by serrecuir on Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
- TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
-
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 3:25 pm
- Location: Rhode Island: The Tiny State That's Actually NOT An Island...and no, I'm not from "Quahog"
- TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
If they're the same pair, how did the seam on the palm/thumb migrate from the side to the middle?
I have a pair of Wells-Lamont #Y1120 that are exactly the same as the screen used prop gloves up there with the same thumb seam running to the center of the cuff.
No matter how much I tug on them and twist them (I've even wet formed them to my hands) I cannot get that thumb seam anywhere near where it appears in the Well of Souls screen caps. Completely different seam placement.
I have a pair of Wells-Lamont #Y1120 that are exactly the same as the screen used prop gloves up there with the same thumb seam running to the center of the cuff.
No matter how much I tug on them and twist them (I've even wet formed them to my hands) I cannot get that thumb seam anywhere near where it appears in the Well of Souls screen caps. Completely different seam placement.
I agree with you Mechanic, and I also agree with Todd. It would appear that the gloves auctioned off are not the pair that you see in the Well of Souls screen caps above. As Todd mentions, there were most likely several pair used (well, at least 2 that have been mentioned - Midwest and Wells Lamont). Just like the fedora, jacket, and other gear, multiples are a must on a film production. It has been widely shown that Harrison was given (or asked for) a pair of work gloves from a grip/electrician on the production. Therefore, it's very probable that a member of the costume or prop department tagged the gloves at the end of the day of shooting and was then tasked with obtaining additional pairs as back-up, stunt use, etc. In Tunisia, I have to believe it's pretty hard to pick up a pair at the local hardware store. I would think it a logical assumption that the additional pairs came from the production's supply and were probably mixed brands. This is just my two cents. 8-[
-Craig
-Craig
- TheMechanic
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 597
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 4:56 pm
- Location: In a skillet with potatoes & onions
Mods, why did this thread get moved? This discussion is related to the workgloves and the variations that appeared in the film. While the title refers to an eBay auction, this thread should stay in the "General Gear" section, no? I don't see how it fits with Gentle Giant at ComicCon or "The Dark Knight" film reviews.
-Craig
EDIT: Awww, I love the Mods here!!! You guys are good! Thanks for moving this back, guys!!!!
-Craig
EDIT: Awww, I love the Mods here!!! You guys are good! Thanks for moving this back, guys!!!!
- GeordieIndy
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:42 pm
- Location: U.K.
I got some Wells Lamont 1123 gloves from the same guy that sold these gloves. They were spot on :!: Had the correct cotton cuff stitching and logo on them. Due to a recent cash flow problem I was forced to sell them.
Anyway hoping to get more funds in the near future so I can continue my Indy gear collection :!:
GeordieIndy
Anyway hoping to get more funds in the near future so I can continue my Indy gear collection :!:
GeordieIndy
- Puppetboy
- Vendor
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:57 am
- Location: Southern California
- Contact:
I have some additional information about the gloves in question from my "inside source" who had actually had the winning bid on them when they were auctioned, but through circumstances they went to the next highest bidder... now he's glad he lost the auction.
Despite the fact that the movie was shot in other parts of the world and the clothing was made/puchased elsewhere, the wardrobe was managed by Western Costumes. Although the gloves are labeled appropriately inside with a number, the number does not appear in any of Western Costumes daily wardrobe call sheets. Bottom line - there is no proof that HF ever wore them and there is no proof (other than Elstree's word) that they are genuine. That's why they just sold on Ebay for a fraction of what the gentleman paid for them.
Two possibilities: 1. The gloves marked "large" may have been the borrowed pair. The rest were made by Western Costumes, and were presumably not marked "large". That leave the mystery of where these Wells Lamonts came from. There is no trace of the word "large" on the wrists. I looked long and hard and it's just not there.
2. If these Wells Lamonts were the borrowed pair, that means Western Costumes labeled their gloves with "large" for some reason - perhaps just to look store-bought. But that still leaves these Wells Lamonts as undocumented.
Despite the fact that the movie was shot in other parts of the world and the clothing was made/puchased elsewhere, the wardrobe was managed by Western Costumes. Although the gloves are labeled appropriately inside with a number, the number does not appear in any of Western Costumes daily wardrobe call sheets. Bottom line - there is no proof that HF ever wore them and there is no proof (other than Elstree's word) that they are genuine. That's why they just sold on Ebay for a fraction of what the gentleman paid for them.
Two possibilities: 1. The gloves marked "large" may have been the borrowed pair. The rest were made by Western Costumes, and were presumably not marked "large". That leave the mystery of where these Wells Lamonts came from. There is no trace of the word "large" on the wrists. I looked long and hard and it's just not there.
2. If these Wells Lamonts were the borrowed pair, that means Western Costumes labeled their gloves with "large" for some reason - perhaps just to look store-bought. But that still leaves these Wells Lamonts as undocumented.
Thanks for that additional info, Todd. I think this also brings up the question of the validity of many of these auction houses that are claiming to sell screen-used props and costumes. As we all know, there are multiples/variations that are made, in addition to "hero" and stunt items, etc.
Oh, we just had an earthquake here. Wow!
Ok, back to the topic at hand. I don't know what the verification process is for these auction houses when they obtain props, wardrobe, etc. for sale. From the auctions I've followed, they've received items handed down from studio employees/workers to family members, then to the auction house. To me, this is a flawed process. An item should not be "second or third-hand" because once it falls into a personal collection, who knows what THAT person could do with an item. For example, they could make a duplicate copy, and keep the original for themselves, etc. I could go on for a long time here, but my basic argument is there are too many holes in this formula at auction houses, and all bidders should take caution when deciding to bid on a "screen-used" item.
-Craig
Oh, we just had an earthquake here. Wow!
Ok, back to the topic at hand. I don't know what the verification process is for these auction houses when they obtain props, wardrobe, etc. for sale. From the auctions I've followed, they've received items handed down from studio employees/workers to family members, then to the auction house. To me, this is a flawed process. An item should not be "second or third-hand" because once it falls into a personal collection, who knows what THAT person could do with an item. For example, they could make a duplicate copy, and keep the original for themselves, etc. I could go on for a long time here, but my basic argument is there are too many holes in this formula at auction houses, and all bidders should take caution when deciding to bid on a "screen-used" item.
-Craig