Dr. Jacket and Mr. Hide

Discuss all of the intricacies of the jacket in full detail

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Plynck
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Dr. Jacket and Mr. Hide

Post by Plynck »

Hi folks,

New guy with a typical new guy question here :oops:

Thinking of buying a Wested, and I’m a bit confused as to what to go for.

Can anyone point me to a post or a thread where different hides are compared and contrasted?

Specifically, with regard to color, warmth, strength, aging (distressability (sp?)) and durability.

And, after visiting the Pecard's site, I am also a bit confused as to which product to use with which hide, and at what age of the hide.

Anyone care to undertake a single post, listing hides with their good points, bad points, and preferred care? A lot of work, I know, I’ll help with the heavy lifting :wink:

Best to all,

plynck
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Mike
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Post by Mike »

Welcome aboard.

For you jacket/hide needs, simply look through the leather jacket section. The topic comes up quite often and are probably too numerous to link to.

For your pecards questions, you can look through the Care & Distressing section, but you may want to wait until you've chosen a hide.

You can always do a search using the keyword hide in your search topic and limit it to the leather jacket section. 50 posts came up for me when I did this.

Hope this helps.

Mike
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Post by morgan »

I had the same problem as you. I went for goat in the end as I wanted my jacket to last a long long time.

I love it, the grain can be a bit rough in areas (pocket flaps) but on the whole mine is perfect. I'm wearing it all the time in the British winter, and its been quite cold recently, I have been nice and warm in my Wested. Its been drenched a few times and stood up brilliantly to it. All in all goat is best for adventuring... if indy were real he would choose goat.

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Post by Bushman »

Wested HORSEHIDE???!!! Yes, EXTREMELY interesting!

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Post by Walker »

Horsehide!?? Please don't tell me this is available. I'm getting ready to build a house!

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Post by Plynck »

Mike and _,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. It's great for starting out, and helps a lot for starting to narrow in on my choices. After revisiting the Pecard site, it still leaves a little bit of confusion in my mind, but I'll try to call them in the next week or so, and post the answers here.

The main reason for my original post was to find out which hides last longer, distress better, and whether the two can be synonymous. And, if so, what treatments should be used to protect the jacket while that process is taking place. From previous posts here, it would seem that the water-soluble dressings are better for keeping the jacket lighter in weight.

With respect to horsehide, I've just ordered a horsehide jacket from another manufacturer (not Indy authentic). Their recommended method of distressing is strikingly similar to that offered by _ in a previous post: roll up the jacket, sit on it, toss it around, etc. I will certainly have to do something, it comes with a waxy coating that is not very attractive.

Another method that I have read about is to put the jacket into a pillow case, putting that into a clothes dryer (WITHOUT the heat on) and tumbling the jacket until the jacket has the desired look and softness. Does anyone have any experience with this? Before anyone tries this, let me repeat - WITHOUT heat!

Best to all,

plynck
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Post by Plynck »

I'd be a bit nervous about using the heat, having read here about the "wavy zipper" syndrome, but that's good to know and keep in mind. Inside out sounds like a good idea if it wouldn't hurt the lining.

I'm getting my jacket from Vanson Leathers; they are local to me so I visited them and liked what I saw (I've ordered the IKE model in reddish tan horsehide).

http://www.vansonleathers.com/store/hor ... rments.asp

I've already posted a little bit about this on another thread, and being relatively new here I don't want to wear out my welcome by boring anyone by repeating myself, or by trying to talk them up to you folks, but basically:

-I already had a cowhide jacket, and I knew (or thought I knew) that I wanted horsehide for a change of pace,
-They were local to me,
-I liked the style of the jacket and the people,
-The jacket was on sale ($135 less than it is shown now), and
-I hadn't found this site with the references to Wested, USWings and Flight Suits :cry:

Knowing what I know now:

-I like the styling of the Indy Jacket better (especially with the storm flap that is missing from my jacket),
-I had no idea about goat, or I might have started there instead of horsehide,
-The cost of any of the manufacturers (but especially Wested) is just more acceptable to the wallet, especially in this economy, and
-The Indy jacket turnaround, even from England, is still better than what I had. For all those who bemoan the waiting time for your Wested, I ordered my Vanson mid-October, and (due to delays in horsehide production) it will finally be shipped next week. :roll:

I'm not knocking Vanson, they make leathers for serious motorcyclists and have a great reputation. But, all in all, it may just be more than I really need. Anyway, I think there's still room for the Indy jacket in the near future.

Best to all,

plynck
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Post by Plynck »

Plynck wrote: And, after visiting the Pecard's site, I am also a bit confused as to which product to use with which hide, and at what age of the hide.
Plynck wrote:After revisiting the Pecard site, it still leaves a little bit of confusion in my mind, but I'll try to call them in the next week or so, and post the answers here.
I just got off the phone with Eric at Pecard's, very nice and patient with my questions. I hope that I got this right, please jump in Eric if you see any egregious errors.

They stock many items for many uses. All comments here are really only applicable for Pecard's used with jackets. The principal Pecard products that might interest the Indygear folk here are:

Classic Leather Dressing, Leather Lotion, Jell, and (to a lesser degree) Boot/Shoe Oil. I'll address them in a different order.

-Boot/Shoe Oil: Not called Boot/Shoe/Jacket Oil for a reason :) The most penetrating of the above group, so a jacket can easily become oversaturated with oil. The only real use for jackets would be if an older hide lost a lot of its natural oils, and needed to be replenished. It should be LIGHTLY applied to a clean cloth, and then swiped on the hide. Once replenished, switch to Leather Dressing.

-Leather Lotion: Water based, with polymers. Lighter in weight than the Leather Dressing. You would use this if you didn't want the use of this product to change the look of the hide. Can't be applied if you have already used Leather Dressing (see below).

-Classic Leather Dressing: An oil based product with beeswax. A clear product, but it is also available tinted Black and Brown. This can darken and add a sheen to a hide. It will add more weight to the jacket than the Leather Lotion. It will repel water, so if you use this you will probably NOT be able to apply the Leather Lotion later (because the lotion is a water based product). However, if you started with Lotion you can later switch to Dressing.

-Jell: A mixture of the Leather Dressing and the Oil. More penetrating than the Dressing (but less than the Oil), it will absorb faster into the hide than the straight Dressing. You would use this to "loosen" a stiff hide. This can also be overdone (as referenced above with the Oil), so once it is absorbed, switch back to Dressing.

So, which hides should be treated with which product?

-Lambskin should probably be treated with Leather Lotion, because of it's lighter weight.

-Cowhide, Distressed Cowhide, Lambstouch Cowhide, and Goatskin: Your call of Lotion or Dressing. Leather lotion will yield a lighter (weighing) jacket, won't change the color of the hide, and my take is that it isn't as weatherproof. Leather Dressing will make the jacket heavier, possibly darker, and (again) my take is more weatherproof. And once you start with the oil based Dressing, you should continue with it.

-Horsehide: Jell or Dressing. If the horsehide is stiff (as they can be sometimes, oh yeah), loosen it with Jell, then switch to Dressing.

In general, Pecard's would chiefly recommend Leather Dressing for most jacket uses.

I'm sure that Eric at Pecard's will give you more (and probably better) advice when you call, but this is a good starter on what to look for.

If anyone can use this as a basis to compare and contrast other products (such as Lexol? or Letap?) it would be most welcome.

Best to all,

plynck
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Michaelson
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Starter??!!

Post by Michaelson »

Letap falls closer to the Motorcycle Leather Lotion, but only in terms of AFTER it liquifies, as it is in an arerosol can and comes out in a foam form. Once it hits the leather surface, it liquifies, then can be spread and rubbed into the leather with a dry sponge. Once dry, you buff with a dry clean cloth. Other than that, it doesn't compare directly with anything Pecards makes.

Lexol is also a good substitute for the Motorcycle Leather Lotion, and reminds you a lot of it in use, consistancy and appearance, but only if you can't FIND the Pecards product. I used it on lambskin with fine results until I got hold of some Letap, then abandoned it completely when I ran out of Letap and found Pecards.

I've been posting the differences of Pecards products for YEARS here, and was the one who announced the introduction of the jell. This is a good breakdown of the information. As suggestion to new folks, take the time to read back through the posts in the care section of the forum. You'll find recommendations regarding ALL of these Pecards products there, as well as all the recommended leather/Pecards production combinations that folks have tried and found to work or fail. You'll find a lot of this info in the general FAQ section as well. All this work has already been done for you, and is there to help you. Regards. Michaelson
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Post by Plynck »

Ahh, thank you Michaelson. I'd been searching for this information only within the Jacket forum, oblivious to an entire Forum for Gear Care and Distressing. Distressing, indeed... :oops:

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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Post by Michaelson »

No problem! If there's a particular Pecards/leather combination you're curious about, let me know. I've tried just about all of them to date. (grins) Regards. Michaelson
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Post by Plynck »

Michaelson,

If I might impose again...

I read a previous post from you which made different recommendations than what I posted above:

http://www.indygear.com/community/forum ... php?t=2629

1. You recommended using the Jell on goatskin to loosen it up a bit, which I can definitely understand.

2. You strongly recommended AGAINST using the Leather Dressing, but rather using the Leather Lotion for the Lambstouch Cowhide. I'm happy to go with your experience here, but can you explain why?

Many thanks,

plynck
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Post by Michaelson »

Weight, pure and simple. Standard dressing, oil, or jell will add a VERY noticeable amount of physical weight to the garment, and I mean a substantial amount. Standard cowhide or most goatskin is used as a heavy weight jacket material, but the big 'seller' for lambtouch or lambskin is how light weight the material is to wear. Why weigh it down with standard dressing? Another feature of the two mentioned is they are tight grain leathers. The standard dressing usually will not totally soak into the leather, leaving it quite tacky for a LONG time. This eventually wears off, but a lot of times it doesn't. I've found Lexol, Letap, or Pecards Motorcycle Leather lotion absolutely perfect for these materials, as they DO soak into the leather, as well as cleans and conditions them at the same time WITHOUT adding additional weight. Regards. Michaelson
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Post by Plynck »

Thanks, Michaelson

Your answer was logical and erudite.

And prompt to boot.

Oops, sorry. This isn't the boot forum :wink:

Best to all,

plynck
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Post by Michaelson »

Glad to help. I am here to state that it may be logical, but a most of this is based on mistakes or practices I've personally made on my own gear in years past, so I'm telling you what has occurred to me. That's what I try to do...unless I've tried it, or handled an item myself, I usually do not participate in a discussion, unless I state in the post that I'm offering strictly an educated guess about a topic. That's been my practice as long as I've participated in this hobby. Regards. Michaelson
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Post by rick5150 »

Plynck;

How far north of Boston are you? I have a Wested Pre-Distessed Cowhide, New Finish Cowhide, Goat and new Lambskin. I have several horsehides that I can show you as well. If you would like to get together, you can compare them in person. I live in Londonderry, NH but work in the Lawrence/Haverhill, MA area and we could meet if you like. It would give you the chance to make a decision based on actual jackets instead of pictures or samples...

Rick
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