Club Obi Wan

Hey guys,

Well, my video on "How to swing on a bullwhip" has been up for a few days, and I've gotten lots of great comments for it, too! It's time to let you guys know though that it was *sort of* a joke. (Crazylegs, I hope you're not offended or anything - your enthusiasm is fantastic, and I still made the video in hopes that you'd enjoy it, which you did!)

The purpose of the little video was twofold. In effect it was sort of a persuasive essay on how to make it look like you're swinging on a bullwhip. The request was made that somebody post a video showing how to swing on their whip like Indiana Jones - who, technically, uses movie magic when he swings on it. However, I also made the video to demonstrate how sometimes your eyes will show you something that isn't really there.

When you watch the films, you *see* Indy swinging on his bullwhip. Likewise, when you watch my video, you *see* me swinging on mine. Even after being told that it would damage a whip, or that the whip would break, etc. etc., many of us (through no fault of our own) still want to believe it possible. When you watch my video wanting to see me swing on a whip, you do see me swing on it. However, the discerning eye - and the eye that knows I wouldn't swing on a $300 bullwhip notes (and PM's about ) that the branch is much thinner when I swing on it, that the thickness of the "thong" is greatly reduced, and that the height of the bullwhip varies greatly between my post-swing comment and the proceeding frames in which I begin my explanation on how to detach your whip from said branch (after I swing, I hold the whip taught and it is level with my head - in the following scene, the whip is hanging by itself and hangs below my knees!).

LONG story short, the whole video was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, a little silly, and even a little bit scientific. The moral of the story is, you can swing on your bullwhip without using an actual bullwhip - and it still looks really freakin' cool. Swinging like Indiana Jones does on a real whip is not realistic if you want to keep your whip for years and years.

I really hope you guys enjoyed the video, and that you will also enjoy THIS video, which shows how I made it.

Behind the scenes


The original "tricky" version, for your reviewing pleasure:
Whipswing Demo

Have a great week (and hey, don't be too mad... it was fun, wasn't it? )!

Shane

Ah thanks alot jerk, I broke 4 roo hide whips trying! Geesh!

ok, I'm going to swing on a bullwhip for REAL.

.... eh.....look if you have the money to drop - swinging on a whip is no big deal - & I can't believe you went through the effort to make this - ridiculous....

Don't be too hard on McFly, he didnt mean any harm. Besides I could tell he was swinging on a fake "whip" when I first watched it. You could tell by the "cross sections"

Bottom line, you shouldn’t swing on real whips but if you do and you damage them, don’t expect a lot of sympathy.

Dan

Man, before you posted the video I went out and swung on my whip. It's an 8' 10 plt. In cowhide with a 1400 lb aircraft cable core. The whip handles like junk so I wasn’t to worried about it

glad you finally posted this Shane it was great for a chuckle knowing it from the beginning but man not being able to comment that just kills ya

The trick is to use someone ELSE'S whip, not your own! 8-[

Regard! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:The trick is to use someone ELSE'S whip, not your own! 8-[

Regard! Michaelson

Hey Michaelson can I borrow your whip for a minute? Promise I'll give it right back

Hey Michaelson!
Can I borrow your whip?

D'oh! Someone beat me to it!

It was a 10 ft whip when we started...

Fun vid, McFly !

but I don't know that hanging 270 pounds of JerseyJones off the end of anything short of a boat chain is a great idea......

N-Joy !

JJ

Montana Plains wrote:D'oh! Someone beat me to it!

It was a 10 ft whip when we started...

HA you just have to be a little bit faster

No no no the whip was always 3 feet long with a frayed end just like when we give it back to him

rebelgtp wrote:

Michaelson wrote:The trick is to use someone ELSE'S whip, not your own! 8-[

Regard! Michaelson

Hey Michaelson can I borrow your whip for a minute? Promise I'll give it right back

Sorry guys! Indiana Jess borrowed mine log ago and that's the last I saw of them. I'm back to swinging on ropes myself.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:I'm back to swinging on ropes myself.

Hey - who says that's a bad thing?

Shane

The second I saw that vid.....I thought. He didn't really do that. He had a camera man...why change the angle so his legs are not seen? I knew it for a fact when I saw you breaking spagetti with the thong of your whip in another vid.

I on the other hand have swung on my cheapo whips hundreds of times and have done some very stupid things in my younger years with it.

FRAUD

Actually I always try and break the spaghetti with the fall - unless I'm holding it myself which I think are those ones you're talking about, and not the ones where my sister holds them for me.

I'm not always a tricky guy. I'd like to think I have enough skill to do tricks the real ways too, which I did in my 3rd whip video.

Shane

McFly wrote:

Michaelson wrote:I'm back to swinging on ropes myself.

Hey - who says that's a bad thing?

Shane

...around your neck?

Regards! Michaelson

Oh! Yeah... I'm pretty sure that is a bad thing. But don't feel bad... by the time this thread runs its course, me and my reputation may be joining you!

Shane

Plenty of room on the limb, my friend!

Regard! Michaelson

I can't believe you went through the effort to make this - ridiculous....

I'll be back in a minute i just have to go admonish a pot for calling the kettle black.



But anywho.

Aye. an Interesting video. perhaps you could have wound paracord around the fake whip getting thinner and thinner to make it appear as though it was a whip with taper. The all the same length kind of makes it a bit obvious straight off i think.

Theres no reason why you couldn't make an actual segment where you run up, crack the whip over a log, cut to a close up shot of the fall wrapping around a log, then cut back to the fake paracord whip for your swing, close up of your feet landing on the other side of a whatever, pull out to reveal you just flicking your whip off of the log (which would have just been laid over the top to save time) and then you run off. only like 4 shots. it would be quick and would take a bit of time but could look realistic enough if done correctly. I'm a cameraman by trade aslong as no one can tell tempted to give it a try myself. soon as im able to do a forward throw without taking my head off

McFly:
I think anyone who has been around the COW Bullwhip section for any length of time will know that swinging on a whip is not a good idea. I got a chuckle out of your creative shooting and editing. Like others i think the fakery was fairly obvious.

Actually one thing I got from the video is that even if you could swing on a whip it doesn't look like you get much distance out of it. For all the effort to wrap and unwrap the whip it seems to me that you might be better off just running and trying to jump the chasm especially if you are being chased by a boulder and you suggested.

best
Canada

Ever hear that really old song (no, im not as old as all that):

"Oh would you like to swing on a.....whip (star), carry moon-beams home in a.............it's supposed to say jar here but that doesn't rhyme with whip.

I could imagine a whip maybe, just maybe being useful as some kind of climbing tool, if nothing else was available. But not recommended.

So, if you could get hold of one of the steel-cored bullwhips as used in the film stunts, would it still work even remotely like a regular whip? Could you flick it round a branch, and THEN swing? Or would it have to be secured by hand in between camera shots?

Enquiring minds want to know (although I don't have any sort of bullwhip).

I'm guessing you couldn't do that. It's a matter of editing, just like Shane/McFly did in his evil, evil video.

C'mon Sable... at least give me three "evils!"

Canada - Glad you enjoyed it.

Shane

Sigh...

Well, I feel like a complete fool. It's ironic that a person who spent 5 years as a make-up FX artist would fall for such a trickery of camera work. When I first watched the video, something in my head told me it wasn't real.

I watched it again, and again, and it just felt like something wasn't right about it, but in a leap of faith I let myself be excited. I sent the video to my friends, my mom and dad (who love Indy), and to my little cousin to prove to her that I was right and it can be done.

I was smiling the entire day because I thought for sure I saw something that I had wanted to know the answer too for years, and it had finally been answered.

Then I found this post. I read it, and my heart dropped. I felt like the fat kid from a movie who was drinking the pop given to me by a friend, then realizing that everyone was laughing because little Johnny Pendergraph had peed in it as a joke.

I'm just gonna leave this post now and try to forget I ever saw it. I got to be a kid again for a few hours when I watched McFly "swing" from the tree, and it made me think of all the times I threw that old rope I attached to my belt over a tree, wishing it would latch on and I could swing like Indiana Jones.

Course, I always new it was movie magic when I watched Indy....perhaps because Spielberg never came on before hand and tried to convince me what I was seeing was true.

Oh well...

I'm kind of glad I missed this, or I would be just as disappointed right now.

crazylegsmurphy wrote:Sigh... Well, I feel like a complete fool. It's ironic that a person who spent 5 years as a make-up FX artist would fall for such a trickery of camera work. When I first watched the video, something in my head told me it wasn't real.

Aw, don't be hard on yourself, Jeff. I totally bought it too - and after 15 years of being in the film biz. It's from truly wanting to believe. Nothing wrong with that. That's why we're all here.

Shane was just trying to make a point and that is that whether it can really be done by an adult or not, we all want to believe and let ourselves believe that it's possible. It is possible, but whoever does it won't have the same whip afterward and will likely have to replace it... especially if he weighs more than Shane.

Ya, well....you know what they say about getting things done and doing it and whatnot.

I have been on the Internets all morning researching whip making materials, I have all the David Morgan books coming from the Library and I am going to call around tomorrow for leather.

I am going to make my own whip, and I am going do my own whip swing video regardless of what happens to the whip. I'll document it all and put it on here and I'll be the first person to actually do it.

No trickery, no jokes, if my whip snaps and I fall to my doom, so be it, but at least we'll see. Course....that's not to say I'm not going to continue trying to drop 25 pounds or so before I try....my belt is having a hard time, let alone a whip!

Well hey - I'm looking forward to seeing how you do. Sorry you felt so bad about believing in the "magic" of the little video, but your initial reaction to it (being excited and all that) was the one I'd hoped for most of you guys - then after I let you know it was a joke, hoped we could all laugh and all that. But certain types of comedy are not for everybody. I'm glad you liked the original though.

Shane

Don't swing on a whip, or use it as a climbing tool: A) it's dangerous. You might fall and hurt yourself, and B) it will stretch your whip a bit. Not too much, and if roo hide hardly at all, and personally if it was a ratty ol' whip it wouldn't matter anyway, but don't do it with a great delCarpio or other good whip. That's what I say. Lastly, C) On looking carefully at my whips, I would add that no matter how strong you think a whip is, it still might snap. Leather is unpredictable. Someone should do a stress test on roohide and calculate the sort of weight it is capable of carrying.

First this question: which is considered the poorer etiquette on this forum: resurrecting an old topic with a new post, or creating a new topic for a question which has been previously addressed? More than a couple of times now my "n00b" posts have generated "that's been discussed many times" responses, so I have taken to searching and researching before asking questions around here. Now I'm steeling myself against a barrage of "necro" accusations for resurrecting a two-year old discussion. Of course, I prefer to think of it as social-networking archæology.

My search this evening resulted in my discovery of this entertaining discussion and these amusing video clips, inspiring a secondary question: who's the girl singing the "Indy" theme? Is she as cute as her voice is dulcet and pleasing? Do please share with us, McFly!

Uhm... sorry. That was a tangent.

My primary question, which remains unanswered despite the wealth of information here provided, is: in the "real world," could a "snap, wrap, and swing™" move actually work, and work fast enough to, say, escape from a rolling boulder or to land in a moving vehicle? Forget for a moment the damage it would do to a whip -- I mean, your whip or your life; what are you, Jack Benny? Could someone really good with a whip actually make an adequate wrap that would hold long enough for a quick swing across, say, ten feet (3 meters) or so? Will a good-quality leather bullwhip support (it only has to work once) the weight of a guy (and his gear) swinging at velocity? Would it be possible -- unlikely, I know, but possible -- to time it so the wrap slips just in time to release, or can a good wrap be flicked and released fast enough, to escape with the (probably ruined) whip in hand?

I know in the films it's "movie magic" but realistically-hypothetically... could it be done?

davidd wrote: I know, but possible -- to time it so the wrap slips just in time to release, or can a good wrap be flicked and released fast enough, to escape with the (probably ruined) whip in hand?

I know in the films it's "movie magic" but realistically-hypothetically... could it be done?

I myself don't believe it is possible to release the whip as fast. Probably you'd have to leave it behind. After the whip wraps, your weight makes it stretch and tighten, plus, you add half a turn (?) which makes it more difficult to unwrap.

ATB,

Aldo.

davidd wrote:My search this evening resulted in my discovery of this entertaining discussion and these amusing video clips, inspiring a secondary question: who's the girl singing the "Indy" theme? Is she as cute as her voice is dulcet and pleasing? Do please share with us, McFly!

Yes, she is! That was my friend Anna Schubert, and you can find more clips of her singing on YouTube. She sings opera and other classically styled music, and I would say she is well known for her singing voice.

My primary question, which remains unanswered despite the wealth of information here provided, is: in the "real world," could a "snap, wrap, and swing™" move actually work, and work fast enough to, say, escape from a rolling boulder or to land in a moving vehicle?

I think the vehicle part is probably right out, unless the person swinging timed it well enough that the car would catch up to them as they let go of the whip. No way somebody could swing that fast! If you meant swinging and letting the car catch up though... that's another story.

I think the problem is firstly being able to perform such a wrap on your first try (you don't have time to stand there and try over again, do you?) and making that wrap good enough that the whip isn't going to simply loosen and fall off as you swing. Now, I have gotten some good wraps where the whip actually wrapped over itself and was very difficult to loosen. So I DO think that it would be possible to get such a wrap that might not fall off the anchor point (log, elephant trunk sculpture, telephone wires, etc.) while swinging.

This leads us to durability of the whip itself during the swing. Wikipedia and several other sources claim that: "When split to 20% of original thickness kangaroo retains between 30 to 60% of the tensile strength of the unsplit hide." That seems impressive, but 30-60% of what? Besides, that's a pretty big gap. Thirty to sixty percent? However, having said that, I have a feeling that 12 strands of braided overlay, plus the braided bellies and the core MAY be able to withstand the stress of being swung on. However! I think the whip might be damaged in such ways as individual strands snapping, maybe some stretching near the end of the thong where the wrap is and the strands are smaller (I DON'T think at all that it would be possible to swing on without having some part of the thong included in the wrap. Probably the fall would come right out of the fall hitch otherwise!), and other small effects that might prevent the whip from performing like normally ever again.

Then finally unwrapping the whip afterwards. I think if you had that SuperWrap that wouldn't come undone while swinging, it would be MUCH harder to unwrap that from the opposite side than it would be on the side of the anchor point from which you performed the wrap. Like Marhala said, after swinging you add almost another half wrap to it. And now, instead of the wrap going out, over, and under the log or whatever you're wrapping, it now goes out, up, and back towards you. (If that's tough to understand - cuz it's tough to explain! - just imagine how the whip would look, wrapped, before and after swinging). I think you'd probably have to ditch the bullwhip and take off, glad that you didn't fall and die, glad the whip didn't snap or your wrap failed, and glad that you won't have to face the whipmaker when you send it back for repairs!

Shane

McFly wrote:... it now goes out, up, and back towards you.

So what you'd have to do, then, is a fancy "circus snap" (I believe you call it in the video primer) and a reverse-wrap from the underside of the suspension point (even though you said to avoid hitting the tree branch from the underside). Then, from the opposite side of the bottomless chasm or the back seat of the getaway car (or truck), it should, in theory, be easier to unwrap the wrap because from that side you'll be working from a top-wrap vantage point. Except, as Marhala points out, for that minor complication of stretched, tightened, and twisted....

It sounds as though it's still problematic as to whether a leather whip will even support a person swinging at speed and distance. I guess it's up to someone with an old whip they're willing to sacrifice in the name of science to actually give it a try and report the results -- preferably with video documentation.

I did mention not to hit it from the underside, but that's because I don't think you could get the right kind of wrap doing it that way. An underhand crack is probably tougher to get the SuperWrap with than a standard circus crack or vertical flick. It's an interesting idea.

In the case of being in the back seat of a getaway vehicle, I think it would be more helpful to have a wrap that undoes itself as you're swinging, because if you land in the car with the whip still attached, there's no way to unwrap the whip before you've left it behind. Otherwise, why swing into the vehicle in the first place if it's going to wait for you to unwrap the whip?

Shane