Club Obi Wan

Hey guys, I thought that I’d get on my soapbox and rant like an idiot for a spell. An “Indiana Jones” jacket is many different things to different people. For some it’s a costume piece and nothing more. For others it is a functioning article of clothing. From that perspective, a leather jacket (non-fashion), is supposed to pretty much last you the duration of your life. It’s not supposed to be ready for retirement after 10 years of hard wear. Its not even supposed to be ready for retirement after 20 years of hard wear.

When you look at it from the proper perspective, a leather jacket that costs a little more but stays together, is a better bargain in the long run than one that costs less, but falls apart. So, what makes a tough jacket that will last? 2 things make a tough leather jacket, the toughness of the jacket materials (hide, thread, zipper, and lining) and the quality of the jacket construction.

Lambskin is out, if you want your jacket to go much longer than 10 years. Don’t get me wrong. If the jacket sits in your closet most of the time and only comes out for special occasions, it will last much longer than that. But this post is about hard wear. The point is that it doesn’t matter how well made the rest of the jacket is if the leather itself is not up for the challenge.

The second thing that makes for a tough jacket is the construction. You might have a great hide that can literally be drug under a truck, but it isn’t much good if the thread holding the seams breaks, or if there wasn’t the proper space used between stitches, so the thread pulls through the leather. There is even an art to stitching. A lining is more prone to wear than the rest of the jacket. Still a good one should last at least ten years before you should even have to think about changing it. Just my 2 cents. Cheers

I'd like to think that there is a combination of materials, design and craftsmanship that could create a leather jacket that could last a lifetime of "hard" wearing.

I'd like to but I don't.

Even the best crafted vintage jackets I have seen that have managed to survive to date did so because they did NOT have a lifetime of hard wear. I think of Vintage horsehide A-2's from WWII. the ones that are still around have long since earned their retirement. Sure some can still be worn, but they would not be around if they had seen regular "heavy" use for the past 60-70 years. At least I don't think so.

I think any garment that lasts through 10 years of "hard" use is incredible.

Of course I have yet to see it all!

Tron

With proper leather dressing, leather lasts. Most leather jackets that are falling apart have done so because they have dried out over the years, not from overuse. Horse hide is actually over rated on durability. It doesn’t have the staying power of goatskin, or deerskin, or kangaroo. Cheers

Tron7960 wrote:I'd like to think that there is a combination of materials, design and craftsmanship that could create a leather jacket that could last a lifetime of "hard" wearing.

I'd like to but I don't.

Even the best crafted vintage jackets I have seen that have managed to survive to date did so because they did NOT have a lifetime of hard wear. I think of Vintage horsehide A-2's from WWII. the ones that are still around have long since earned their retirement. Sure some can still be worn, but they would not be around if they had seen regular "heavy" use for the past 60-70 years. At least I don't think so.

I think any garment that lasts through 10 years of "hard" use is incredible.

Of course I have yet to see it all!

Tron

Actually, they made some great jackets during the war, but they also made many shoddy ones. That fact doesn’t get talked about much these days.

if i were a betting man, i'd say that wested's prewashed veg tanned lamb would be a strong candidate for endurance. she's not the run of the mill lambskin for sure....you can't poke a hole in it with a pencil nor do i doubt that it will tear if you snag it on something.....it feels almost like a cowhide.

as far as longevity goes....if a jacket makes it 10 years in my wardrobe...it would be pretty lucky and pretty special

10 years huh? Wow. I didn’t realize you guys had such low expectations from your leather jackets. Different strokes.

I think 10 years for an Indy jacket is a low estimate. The great thing about the Indy jacket is it's timeless style. The jacket looks just as good now as it did in 1981. How many garments can you say that about?

Yeah, I've no doubt you are right about the shoddy WWII jackets or the fact that there are many leathers of extraordinary resilience available for use.

I guess it would be more accurate for me to say that I can't think of any examples of a leather garment that has proven the test of time with the kind of use I think you are referring to. Rather than say I don't think it can be done I should say I'm curious to know if it has been done.

Tron

I also have to say that in my 40yrs of wearing clothes, I've never had a "garment that has seen daily use for more than 10 years. Sure I've got clothes that I've had for more than 10years, even 20yrs, but they sort of get cycled through my wardrobe. Things get put away seasonally (4 distinct seasons here) and things even get put away for a few years at a time. I hang on to my favorites and classic pieces, but I'm always adding and changing. Maybe I'm different in that regard, but other than a watch I wore for 17 years, I can't say I've put anything to that kind of test!

Rundquist wrote:Hey guys, I thought that I’d get on my soapbox and rant like an idiot for a spell. An “Indiana Jones” jacket is many different things to different people. For some it’s a costume piece and nothing more. For others it is a functioning article of clothing. From that perspective, a leather jacket (non-fashion), is supposed to pretty much last you the duration of your life. It’s not supposed to be ready for retirement after 10 years of hard wear. Its not even supposed to be ready for retirement after 20 years of hard wear.

When you look at it from the proper perspective, a leather jacket that costs a little more but stays together, is a better bargain in the long run than one that costs less, but falls apart. So, what makes a tough jacket that will last? 2 things make a tough leather jacket, the toughness of the jacket materials (hide, thread, zipper, and lining) and the quality of the jacket construction.

Cheers

Sounds like you're talking G&B Expedition...

I agree with your principles. I don't want a jacket that looks like an Indy jacket so much as I want to capture the spirit of that kind of leather jacket - a hard wearing jacket I don't have to worry about when I go and do things.

How come the actual jacket Indiana Jones wears doesn't last? He's had four movies, and four different, albeit similar jackets? Why aren't the movie makers so obsessed with the SA of the jacket from Raiders that they wouldn't even attempt to duplicate it other than the general idea of the jacket? Eh? This always bewildered me.

This is exactly why I want my next Wested to be a goat. I like my lambskin a lot for its screen-accuracy and soft feel, but I'd like to have an Indiana Jones jacket that has the functionality Indy would want.

Even the best crafted vintage jackets I have seen that have managed to survive to date did so because they did NOT have a lifetime of hard wear. I think of Vintage horsehide A-2's from WWII. the ones that are still around have long since earned their retirement. Sure some can still be worn, but they would not be around if they had seen regular "heavy" use for the past 60-70 years. At least I don't think so.

I think any garment that lasts through 10 years of "hard" use is incredible.

Also remember, that unless an A-2 was put back into service after the
original airman either was killed, or went home, those jackets only really
saw about 2 or 3 years of heavy use. Far below the 10 years being mentioned
here. And, then, even the A-2 was not worn everyday, as flight crews needed
heavier jackets like the B-3 and ANJ-4 up at 30,000 feet where the temps
would drop to minus 30 degrees f. So, some of the A-2 stayed in lockers
during those missions. So that would give them a break from being worn.

From that perspective, a leather jacket (non-fashion), is supposed to pretty much last you the duration of your life. It’s not supposed to be ready for retirement after 10 years of hard wear. Its not even supposed to be ready for retirement after 20 years of hard wear.

I don't think that any piece of clothing, whether its made by a vendor
you like or not, will take 10 years of "hard" wear without needing some
sort of repair work due to stitching coming loose, breaking under stress
or the leather tearing at some point.

Any jacket that uses cotton thread will have the thread degrade
over time by getting wet, being left in the sun (UV rays) and just plain
rubbing against things as the jacket is worn.

If you have a jacket with a synthetic or semi-synthetic thread used on
it, that will outlast the regular cotton thread when its used as I described
before.

Obvioulsy the heaver gage of thread used will also make it last longer,
and you can actually ask any of the vendors of fine leather jackets to use
a heavier gage thread if you want to pay for it.

I agree that taking care of a jacket by applying dressings and other items
to it will make it last longer, but if you are doing that, then your jacket is not living a very hard
life now is it? Thats what I call being taken care of, and of course, any item
of clothing that is taken care of will last longer than one that is not.

And as Tron7960 has said, unless you live in an area of the world where
the temperature and climate stays cold and damp enough to wear a leather
jacket all year long, most of us only have time to actually use and wear
our jackets about 5 or 6 months a year before it gets too warm for them.

Flathead

Chewing Wax wrote:How come the actual jacket Indiana Jones wears doesn't last? He's had four movies, and four different, albeit similar jackets? Why aren't the movie makers so obsessed with the SA of the jacket from Raiders that they wouldn't even attempt to duplicate it other than the general idea of the jacket? Eh? This always bewildered me.

My take on it is that each costume designer feels the need to put their own stamp on the jacket.

It would be quite easy for the costume designer to have gained access to the Raiders hero jacket that supposedly rests in Skywalker Ranch. The Revenge of the Sith production had access to the original Darth Vader helmet (and even they made some unnecessary changes to that iconic costume -- don't get me started!), so clearly, the costume designers on the successive Indy films could have had access to the Raiders hero jacket for measurements, photos if they wanted. If they had no access to the hero jacket, then they could have meticulously gone over the photos and screengrabs from Raiders or asked Peter to provide them with his best approximation of the Raiders jacket as a starting point (or even his LC jacket for that matter). They clearly chose not to.

I think some costume designers feel that changing an iconic image like Indy's jacket will be their legacy on a film, leaving their own mark on his costume. If that's true, then I think it's entirely unnecessary and self-serving. I think it really started on this film. I think Coopers (or whomever it was this week) on TOD tried to replicate the Leather Concessionaires jacket from Raiders, and then on LC, Peter no longer had his original Raiders pattern. Accordingly, by the time KOTCS came along, there wasn't a single hero jacket model, so Bernie Pollack had a bit of an excuse to come up with his own thing.

Same thing with the fedora. To hear him say it, Marc offered to provide the Raiders block, but Pollack said it was too caricaturish of the Raiders film hat. Tell me how exactly that could be, if it's pretty much the same block? Clearly, Pollack didn't demand the changes that resulted in the KOTCS hat just to be more consistent with the CS fedora (because it isn't). I'm sure it's because he wanted to leave his mark on Indy's costume. Like I said, it's in his power, but completely unnecessary.

SD

FLATHEAD wrote:

Even the best crafted vintage jackets I have seen that have managed to survive to date did so because they did NOT have a lifetime of hard wear. I think of Vintage horsehide A-2's from WWII. the ones that are still around have long since earned their retirement. Sure some can still be worn, but they would not be around if they had seen regular "heavy" use for the past 60-70 years. At least I don't think so.

I think any garment that lasts through 10 years of "hard" use is incredible.

Also remember, that unless an A-2 was put back into service after the
original airman either was killed, or went home, those jackets only really
saw about 2 or 3 years of heavy use. Far below the 10 years being mentioned
here. And, then, even the A-2 was not worn everyday, as flight crews needed
heavier jackets like the B-3 and ANJ-4 up at 30,000 feet where the temps
would drop to minus 30 degrees f. So, some of the A-2 stayed in lockers
during those missions. So that would give them a break from being worn.

From that perspective, a leather jacket (non-fashion), is supposed to pretty much last you the duration of your life. It’s not supposed to be ready for retirement after 10 years of hard wear. Its not even supposed to be ready for retirement after 20 years of hard wear.

I don't think that any piece of clothing, whether its made by a vendor
you like or not, will take 10 years of "hard" wear without needing some
sort of repair work due to stitching coming loose, breaking under stress
or the leather tearing at some point.

Any jacket that uses cotton thread will have the thread degrade
over time by getting wet, being left in the sun (UV rays) and just plain
rubbing against things as the jacket is worn.

If you have a jacket with a synthetic or semi-synthetic thread used on
it, that will outlast the regular cotton thread when its used as I described
before.

Obvioulsy the heaver gage of thread used will also make it last longer,
and you can actually ask any of the vendors of fine leather jackets to use
a heavier gage thread if you want to pay for it.

I agree that taking care of a jacket by applying dressings and other items
to it will make it last longer, but if you are doing that, then your jacket is not living a very hard
life now is it? Thats what I call being taken care of, and of course, any item
of clothing that is taken care of will last longer than one that is not.

And as Tron7960 has said, unless you live in an area of the world where
the temperature and climate stays cold and damp enough to wear a leather
jacket all year long, most of us only have time to actually use and wear
our jackets about 5 or 6 months a year before it gets too warm for them.

Flathead

Well there is “hard” and there is “hard”. My point was not that a jacket is supposed to be indestructible. The point was that it was supposed to last beyond 10 years. For the most part goatskin will last 20 plus years without putting anything on it, within reason (don’t wear it as a raincoat for instance). Also, why does keeping your jacket from drying out mean that it’s not getting heavy use? You do bring up a good point about cotton thread. Many vintage jackets have the cotton thread give out before the leather. A good leather jacket maker today uses a cotton-wrapped nylon thread. This way you get the strength of the nylon thread, without the thread cutting into the leather.

I remember a hot day in the summer of 1987. I went downtown to Philadelphia’s venerable I Goldberg Army & Navy store to buy my first leather jacket: a Schott Perfecto biker jacket. I broke it in that summer by way of using it as a pillow, and as soon as I was able to do so without suffering heat stroke, I started to wear that jacket every day.

My Schott saw me through a punk phase when it was assaulted by pins. It served as my raincoat, my winter coat, sometimes a pillow, occasionally a blanket. In college it might as well have been glued to me, it came off so infrequently. It saw rain, it saw snow, it saw mud and rusty steel and some asphalt. When I started riding a motorcycle, poorly, it kept my skin on my arms and back. It started every fall season a little stiff, but ended every spring as soft as cotton.

This humble garment has been knocked around, beat up, scraped, scratched, soaked, frozen, burned, and neglected. Often in combination. The leather outlasted the steel rivets that held the belt buckle in place for twenty years; where that buckle ended up I’ll never know.

I put it on just now to write these lines and, looking down, I can see that my right side must have suffered much more abuse than my left. It is broken in and distressed in a way that could never be replicated.

A few years ago, however, I reached the age when, if you don’t actually ride a motorcycle, you look kind of foolish in a biker jacket. I hung up my battered old friend in the closet where it’s remained.

This is the jacket I am looking to replace. This is the challenge that Wested has ahead of it. A leather jacket that can outlast my twenty-year cycle of fashion.

As an afterthought, I don’t live quite as hard as I used to. These days I sleep at home or in hotel rooms where blankets AND pillows tend to be provided. Still, I like to be ready should the challenge reappear.

Chewing Wax wrote:How come the actual jacket Indiana Jones wears doesn't last? He's had four movies, and four different, albeit similar jackets? Why aren't the movie makers so obsessed with the SA of the jacket from Raiders that they wouldn't even attempt to duplicate it other than the general idea of the jacket? Eh? This always bewildered me.

For the first three movies I can see having the same jacket since it is in the span of a few years but with KOTCS we are talking abig chunk of time. Unless Indy has a tailor making copies for him (doubtful) or he loaded up on jackets he would just HAVE to grab a close enough. The way he wears his jackets they would never last 50 years (in the films you might even say that's why each is different- his gets destroyed after a while and he goes out and gets a close enough) Try finding a pair parachute pants nowadays (or even that shirt you loved that you saw at the Gap 9 months ago). It's the same concept.

gmarthe wrote:

Chewing Wax wrote:How come the actual jacket Indiana Jones wears doesn't last? He's had four movies, and four different, albeit similar jackets? Why aren't the movie makers so obsessed with the SA of the jacket from Raiders that they wouldn't even attempt to duplicate it other than the general idea of the jacket? Eh? This always bewildered me.

For the first three movies I can see having the same jacket since it is in the span of a few years but with KOTCS we are talking abig chunk of time. Unless Indy has a tailor making copies for him (doubtful) or he loaded up on jackets he would just HAVE to grab a close enough. The way he wears his jackets they would never last 50 years (in the films you might even say that's why each is different- his gets destroyed after a while and he goes out and gets a close enough) Try finding a pair parachute pants nowadays (or even that shirt you loved that you saw at the Gap 9 months ago). It's the same concept.

In film logic, I guess we, the audience, are meant to assume that it's the exact same jacket being carried over from one film to the next, just like how we are to assume that Batman's eye shadow is part of the cowl.

However, as a gearhead, I'd like to think (and this is me taking the movies too seriously) that the jackets no way no how could survive each individual movie. I mean, Raiders? He gets a bullet hole on the sleeve, and tosses it after he gets dragged behind a truck. ToD? He gets the thing soaked to the core, probably resulting in major shrinkage in the tropical heat. Last Crusade? Well... the healing power of the grail fixed it up in the last scene...

Tron7960 wrote:http://parachutepants.stores.yahoo.net/

You came up with that site pretty quick Tron. Safe to say you're wearing a pair of parachute pants as we write? Since Indy didn't have access to the internet back then I'll assume it might be harder for him to find an exact match of his jacket/he wasn't as obsessive as us/he had better things to do rather than shop for the same exact jacket.

I stick by my argument.

Chewing Wax wrote:How come the actual jacket Indiana Jones wears doesn't last? He's had four movies, and four different, albeit similar jackets? Why aren't the movie makers so obsessed with the SA of the jacket from Raiders that they wouldn't even attempt to duplicate it other than the general idea of the jacket? Eh? This always bewildered me.

Why should they care! The jacket is the last thing the producers worry about. If it looks almost the same that'd do. It's only the crazy fans who now have technology (DVD's, etc) to point out the differences. And besides it's a fictional character. He carry's a bag that hasn't even been invented yet in the first film...

"We're Gibson & Barnes,...and we approve this message"

I'm with Rund, on the side of the fence that wants a real world jacket, not a costume piece. I purchased a lamb Expedition, AND a goatskin, and they are definitely jackets made to take a licking.
'Blues

IndyBlues wrote:"We're Gibson & Barnes,...and we approve this message"

I'm with Rund, on the side of the fence that wants a real world jacket, not a costume piece. I purchased a lamb Expedition, AND a goatskin, and they are definitely jackets made to take a licking.
'Blues

Both the lamb and the goat are expeditions from G&B? I have been teetering between the 2 as I wanted the "lightweightedness" of lamb, but wanted the durability of goat (why can't we have our cake and eat it too )?

I was leaning towards the lamb because it seems this hide in a dark brown is more of a "brown," while the goat is very dark, almost black. Also, is the goat heavier, and if so, by a significant amount? How do they 2 jackets wear/feel/hold up against the daily grind?

No doubt that the goat hides are extremely tough. I have made several attempts to distress my Wested goat, only to have my efforts proven fruitless. That shine just does not want to go away! I cannot help but feel, however, that I'll be taking years off of the life of my jacket by employing harsher means of distressing. Short of using a belt sander, I do not see any more artificial distressing in my future. I'll just throw some fuller's earth on it when I need it to look old.

It kind of makes me sad to think about how long it would have taken me through normal wear, to arrive at the level of distressing my jacket currently has. AT LEAST five years, if not more.

I have little doubt that the hide of my Wested will last me at least ten years from now, wearing it every day that the weather even questionably permits. Of course, in Houston, we really only have about 4 months of jacket weather per year.

My only gripe is that the satin lining has already started to fail. I have a sizeable hole toward the bottom of the back. Apart from that, I've never loved a garment so much. The only reason I could see necessity to buy another is to get one in the Temple length. But Peter has got my business for life.

Ron

Does anyone still make a kangaroo hide Indy jacket?

bobjones wrote:
Both the lamb and the goat are expeditions from G&B? I have been teetering between the 2 as I wanted the "lightweightedness" of lamb, but wanted the durability of goat (why can't we have our cake and eat it too )?

I was leaning towards the lamb because it seems this hide in a dark brown is more of a "brown," while the goat is very dark, almost black. Also, is the goat heavier, and if so, by a significant amount? How do they 2 jackets wear/feel/hold up against the daily grind?

Well, hopefully I can help you with my experience with both jackets.
The lamb jacket is dark seal, and you are right, the dark seal is almost black, unless under bright light. The goatskin however, is seal brown and close to the Authentic brown that Wested offers.

The Lamb is incredibly lightweight, but still has a strong feel to it. I prefer my Goatskin, since I am not gentle on my jackets. I don't like to worry about snagging the leather, and possibly ripping it. The goat is tough, and I don't think I could tear it if I tried. The goat is defintiely heavier than the lamb. It's also a bit warmer. I live in Pennsylvania, so we have a pretty cold winter. I've been wearing the goat since It's gotten cold, so it sees alot of wear time. The lamb is too light for winter wear here, and too warm for spring( I can't wear a jacket if it's over 70 degress, especially leather.)

I can tell you one thing, you won't be dissapointed in the quality of either choice, they are built to last. Hope this helped.
'Blues

Hey 'Blues,
Didn't I buy my Wested goat from you a couple of years ago? Best purchase I ever made.

Ron

Well, hopefully I can help you with my experience with both jackets. The lamb jacket is dark seal, and you are right, the dark seal is almost black, unless under bright light. The goatskin however, is seal brown and close to the Authentic brown that Wested offers.

The Lamb is incredibly lightweight, but still has a strong feel to it. I prefer my Goatskin, since I am not gentle on my jackets. I don't like to worry about snagging the leather, and possibly ripping it. The goat is tough, and I don't think I could tear it if I tried. The goat is defintiely heavier than the lamb. It's also a bit warmer. I live in Pennsylvania, so we have a pretty cold winter. I've been wearing the goat since It's gotten cold, so it sees alot of wear time. The lamb is too light for winter wear here, and too warm for spring( I can't wear a jacket if it's over 70 degress, especially leather.)

I can tell you one thing, you won't be dissapointed in the quality of either choice, they are built to last. Hope this helped.
'Blues

Indeed it has. A few more q's:

1-does the goat shine? The seal brown is a lighter brown, and a shine would look bizarre.

2-how amenable do you think G&B is to modifications - as in major ones? And if so, would their costs for them be very high?

3-my "go-to", signature jacket will be my new Aero stockman, no question about it, for most of the months from Oct - April (I live in NY, so my weather isn't much better, and for us leather jacket fiends, thats a good thing )

That being said, the G&B would be for warmer days, say 50-55 degrees
and up. Would the goat be too warm ya think?

Thanks for your help.

Captain Ron Solo wrote:Hey 'Blues,
Didn't I buy my Wested goat from you a couple of years ago? Best purchase I ever made.

Ron

I believe you are right, sir. So, is she treating you right?
'Blues

I can tell you that the Wested dark brown goat has a shine. (See above) Some members here have had success in removing the shine, but I have not gotten that ambitious. I cannot testify as to the shine on any other manufacturer or model.


Blues - Yep! I love it. I'm always bummed this time of year, when I really can't wear it anymore. Thanks for the deal!

Ron

bobjones wrote:
Indeed it has. A few more q's:

1-does the goat shine? The seal brown is a lighter brown, and a shine would look bizarre.

2-how amenable do you think G&B is to modifications - as in major ones? And if so, would their costs for them be very high?

3-my "go-to", signature jacket will be my new Aero stockman, no question about it, for most of the months from Oct - April (I live in NY, so my weather isn't much better, and for us leather jacket fiends, thats a good thing )

That being said, the G&B would be for warmer days, say 50-55 degrees
and up. Would the goat be too warm ya think?

Thanks for your help.

1)Hmm, the seal brown does shine, but trust me, so does the dark seal. You can dull the shine with some rubbing alcohol, on the goat. The lamb shine will dull faster, especially if you get it damp.

2)Well, they do make "made to measure" jackets, but I'm not sure what the cost is. Rundquist may be the man to ask regarding that, or G&B themselves. They are extremely easy to deal with on the phone. Very helpful.

3)For me, those temps would be borderline, depending on the humidty.
I'd say that temp range would be safe, but once it hits 60-70, no way.

'Blues

gmarthe wrote:

Tron7960 wrote:http://parachutepants.stores.yahoo.net/

You came up with that site pretty quick Tron. Safe to say you're wearing a pair of parachute pants as we write? Since Indy didn't have access to the internet back then I'll assume it might be harder for him to find an exact match of his jacket/he wasn't as obsessive as us/he had better things to do rather than shop for the same exact jacket.

I stick by my argument.

Your argument is valid. I just thought your example was hilarious, having been in high school in the early 80's!

My parachute pants are in storage. I want them to last a lifetime!

Tron

IndyBlues.....
You have both the lamb and the goat in the G& B Expedition? You are a man after my own heart. I only have the goat at this time, but will soon order the lamb. It is truly a magnigicent jacket, so superior to the Wested, yet all we talk about are Westeds. Don't get me wrong, the Wested is a fine jacket, but does not come close the superior craftsmanship of the Expedition.

BTW, I've been wearing an A-2 Goat for 15 years, so don't tell me a leather jacket won't last for more ten years. Ain't so.

Many Thanks
Randoman

Also, why does keeping your jacket from drying out mean that it’s not getting heavy use?

I mention this because most of the leather jackets that were actually used
by their owners back in the 30s, 40's and 50's didn't apply any type of
"dressing" or other items to their jackets, as they probably could not
afford it.

Other than say neatsfoot oil, I bet most of those jackets never got anything
put on them during their entire useage. And then if they did have anything
applied to them, it was to try to add some waterproofing to it, not to make
it last longer.

And if the thread came loose, or the jacket got a tear in it, they mended
it themselves, so the jacket would last another year so they wouldn't have
to buy another one.

Thats hard use in my book. How we today wear out jackets is not
"hard" use by any means.

With the exception of people who ride motorcycles on a daily basis,
or those who work outside all the time, exposed to constantly changing elements,
most people put on their jacket, wear to the office, and then wear it
home. Thats the good life compared to what real "work" clothing goes
thru.

Thats why it makes me laugh when I see people artificially aging their
jackets with sandpaper, knives, rocks, you name it.

These are the people who are the office dwellers who want to make it
look like they are adventures.

Its these jackets and owners who are in the majority. And other than
outgrowing a jacket by getting fat and having to keep replacing their jackets
with bigger and bigger sizes, most of these jackets would last an entire
lifetime if people did not destroy them by their own hands just to achieve
a certain look.

Flathead

"We're Gibson & Barnes,...and we approve this message"

Thanks for making me spit stuff up all over my keyboard. THAT was funny!

http://parachutepants.stores.yahoo.net/

NO WAY!!!

I'm SO there...


Oh, wait...We were talking about jackets.....

I hope that none of you guys is misconstruing this post to be an endorsement of Gibson & Barnes lambskin. It will make a nice “dress” jacket, but my main point was that lambskin was weak no matter where it comes from. In fact my whole rant was caused by the recent post about a lambskin jacket with a worn through collar. What good is a distressed jacket if right when you get it where you want it, it's ready for the junk pile? Cheers

What are you guys doing that you need a jacket that tough? You know you shouldn't try those stunts at home.

Rundquist wrote:10 years huh? Wow. I didn’t realize you guys had such low expectations from your leather jackets. Different strokes.

I don't think it's about "low expectations" so much as the difference in what each individual will consider to be "hard wear".

For instance, despite my enjoyment of Indiana Jones (and Indy gear), I'm not a big outdoor person. I make my living by working from home so my jacket will likely never see anything remotely resembling "hard wear". So, I would expect far more than 10 years. (Heck, it would be more likely to fall into disuse from me gaining/losing weight than from getting damaged.)

On the other hand, if someone regularly wore their jacket every day in a variety of temperatures and/or abrasions.....well, I can see that their jacket will last considerably less time than some others.

Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying "it just depends on the individual".

My two cents,

Tony

jeremy3178 wrote:What are you guys doing that you need a jacket that tough? You know you shouldn't try those stunts at home.

well, like i said elsewhere, my first jacket has lasted many years and i've worn it through just about everything short of actually being dragged behind a truck. Then i got a lambskin jacket so i would look less like a hobo when out in public, and i hadn't even had it a week before there was a huge tear in the sleeve; it tore about halfway off. I'll never even consider lambskin again. Ruined in less than a week vs a decade of regular use with only a small tear in one place.
Even if something is just for a costume, i demand a certain level of usability. If you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on an outfit, you want it to be as authentic as possible, and (to me, at least) part of an authentic outfit is being able to use your gear in the same manner as the character you're emulating.
When you buy a whip, you expect to be able to crack it an hit things with it without fear of it breaking. You'll probably never fight off a swordsman with it or even uses it to drive cattle, yet you want it to be of the same quality as the ones that ARE used for that purpose.
So, why wouldn't one demand the same of a jacket?

In a nutshell: if i'm going to spend anywhere from $150 to $500 on a jacket, it had better be worth the price. If I spend half a grand on anything and it's ruined within a few days, i'm gonna open the Ark on the guy who sold it to me and stuff him in head first.

The purpose of a jacket(or any article of clothing for that matter) is, first and foremost, to protect you from the elements. Whatever the intended use, be it for a costume or daily wear, it should at least perform this task with some amount of competency. If it can't hold up against a doorknob, it is a failure and not worth any amount of money.

I totally understand that Darth. I was just curious because I've had a Wested lambskin for 8 years and it hasn't come apart on me yet. I don't put it thru ####, but I'd say its been thru medium amounts of stress. I've worn it every day that weather has allowed.

Trust me, I don't have money to throw away. I expect to get what I pay for. So either I just got lucky with my jacket or you guys play really rough.

SO, does any jacket-maker still produce a kangaroo hide Indy jacket?

Rundquist wrote:I hope that none of you guys is misconstruing this post to be an endorsement of Gibson & Barnes lambskin.

Sorry Rund, I wasn't reading it that way, I just saw an opening for a funny post to add to your thread. However, I do believe that G&B makes one of the toughest jackets out there, and the Goatskin I purchased from you is my favorite Indy jacket I've ever owned. I see no reason to ever buy another one, which if you know me, is a testament to this jacket. Loving it!
'Blues

Darth Indiana wrote:If you're going to spend hundreds of dollars on an outfit, you want it to be as authentic as possible, and (to me, at least) part of an authentic outfit is being able to use your gear in the same manner as the character you're emulating.

I'm not looking to invalidate your opinion.....but I don't think this is a realistic expectation. The jacket that got dragged behind the truck in ROTLA was probably useless after a few takes. There's no telling how many pairs of pants, gloves, jackets and hats were used in the most rigorous action scenes.

So, with that in mind, it's not really realistic to expect that one is going to buy a single jacket and have it stand up to much stress. Indy's didn't....we just don't see the short life-span of his gear from a theater seat.

In a nutshell: if i'm going to spend anywhere from $150 to $500 on a jacket, it had better be worth the price. If I spend half a grand on anything and it's ruined within a few days, i'm gonna open the Ark on the guy who sold it to me and stuff him in head first.

The purpose of a jacket(or any article of clothing for that matter) is, first and foremost, to protect you from the elements. Whatever the intended use, be it for a costume or daily wear, it should at least perform this task with some amount of competency. If it can't hold up against a doorknob, it is a failure and not worth any amount of money.

I don't disagree with you there at all. But, it's also worth noting that lambskin isn't considered nearly as durable as other hides. It's the dressiest one of the bunch, probably more suited for a night on the town than for any real wear-and-tear.

Just my two cents,
Tony

and that's why i'm going for goat or horse hide for my next jacket. i don't plan on dragging it behind any trucks, but it should be able to handle just about anything i do throw at it.
if the ancient Romans could make functional armor out of leather, we in the 21st century can make a leather jacket that can handle the rugged outdoors. it just ain't gonna be made out of lambskin.

Exactly what are you guys DOING in your jackets (or dare i ask)? My wings lamb is doing fine(minus the couple nail snags i got but they would happen regardless). Never treated, used in winter snow and rain, minor wear, had it for a year or so(if anything, the more use...the better it looks).

ortiz344 wrote:Exactly what are you guys DOING in your jackets (or dare i ask)? My wings lamb is doing fine(minus the couple nail snags i got but they would happen regardless). Never treated, used in winter snow and rain, minor wear, had it for a year or so(if anything, the more use...the better it looks).

I asked that question already...My lambskin has taken been through quite a bit as well. Never had any issues with it.

...and if you treat it like I do, it"ll still look brand new!

well see, i like to spend time outdoors, camping and whatnot, and therefore my clothing needs to be durable enough to survive the inevitable scrapes, falls, snags, etc. that come with outdoor activity. Make that daily, and it needs to be pretty tough so you don't look like TOD Indy after one camping trip. I also want my leather jacket to last a while and still be appropriate to wear among civilized people.
I'm not looking for something bulletproof, but it should be able to stand up to regular moderate to heavy use without getting destroyed. Like i've said, my lambskin jacket was ruined after something so common i didn't even notice it , and it happened so easily that i didn't realize the damage was done until i took off the jacket and saw the gaping hole. When you're wearing leather, you don't expect something like a door handle to cause that kind of damage.
I'm not doing stunt work, i'm just doing fairly normal stuff, stuff that, apparently, lambskin just isn't up to handling. Not even once.

Well at least I know I should be more careful around door knobs now.

So what is the best looking and most durable in your opinion? Goat or Horse?