Club Obi Wan

Being that they're pretty expensive, I'm wondering how much we can rely on TJ's KOTCS whips being SA. Does anyone think TJ might go down the DM route with modifications being made to improve performance, but which detract from SA?

Hard to say. I stopped into the Western Stage Props store in Las Vegas this morning and got to talk with Mark Allen about what he knows of the whips used in the production of the new movie.

We know that Morgan, Jacka, and Strain all supplied whips for the film. Mark told me that all the whips were dyed to be the same color, so it could possibly end up that whips from all three makers get screen time.

Mark also said that Jacka will not be making any more of the KOTCS bullwhips.

Another interesting note was that Anthony DeLongis only worked on the KOTCS set for a week, before being let go. This made it sound like his influence on the whip work in KOTCS will be minimal.

Anyway, I really think everyone should cool their jets about getting a 'screen accurate' KOTCS until the movie comes out and we actually see what ends up on screen.

Also, I was walking around the strip this evening (in Vegas) and went into the M&M store. There was a poster promoting the KOTCS M&Ms, and Harrison had this kind of cheap-looking, non-kangaroo bullwhip in his hand, and I must say I was dissapointed that they gave Indy that whip, but the have the M&M holding a 12-plait kangaroo bullwhip (which kind of looks like a Paul Nolan whip, especially after I looked over some of Paul's whips this morning at Western Stage Props.)

-Adam

Thanks for the insight, Adam. That's all very interesting, particularly the part about Anthony DeLongis being let go after a week!

Satipo, I’ve been talking with Terry Jacka directly about these whips in great detail. He knows about Indy Gear and the fans desire to want screen accurate copies of his whip and he plans to do his best to provide us with the same whips made as close as possible to the originals. There are still some final details that he and I are working out before he begins talking orders though his own company "The Australian Whip co." but I will announce that for him here when he is ready which hopefully should be soon. Prices at least for the 8 ft model should be closer to his standard Australian model bullwhips that David Morgan sells.

Regarding Anthony Delongis being “let go”. I first heard this last July, I tried to contact Anthony to ask him about it directly, but I couldn’t get hold of him at the time. I talked to his wife Mary, who explained it to me as projects of this type use a standard "drop and pick-up" process in the contracts that allows the studio the flexibility to have the personnel necessary only when needed and the he was just no longer needed on set at that time. Whether or not there was more too it remains to be seen. I know there were some not so nice rumors about what happened but they where from an unreliable source and i will not get into them here. With the information lockdown surrounding the film I hadn’t be able to get any official details. As I understand he did work with Ford prior to filming though and he may have been brought back at some point during filming.

Unfortunately you sometime have to take what Mark says with a grain of salt.

Dan

Thanks, Dan. It sounds promising regarding the TJ whip. As for Anthony Delongis, I assume he would have been more required prior to filming anyway.

BTW, I haven't been out to crack my DM since about November! It's been mostly in it's bag, although I take it out for the occasional uncoil. Bought it in September - do you think it's time I gave it the Pecards treatment?

Thanks for clarifying, Dan. I did try to put what Mark said about Anthony into the most general and least-harsh terms that I could. I was hoping to meet with Anthony while I'm out in LA at the Southern California Pleasure Faire, and perhaps I can find out more then.

From working at the festival in Arizona, I know that a lot can get said through rumor mill, but talking directly with the people involved is the only way to know what's really going on. I'm still green regarding being on the road, but I'm really trying to get this idea into my head.

-Adam

Taking things with a grain of salt, or several from ANYONE in this hobby I've learned is a good idea until you hear it from the horses mouth.

Well, taking things with a grain of salt, and not repeating stuff I've heard art the two things I'm working on. It's like, if you repeat things from the rumor mill, you get caught in the rumor mill, and it's not the best place to be, or it's not where I want to be, at least.

-Adam

BullWhipBorton wrote:I’ve been talking with Terry Jacka directly about these whips in great detail. He knows about Indy Gear and the fans desire to want screen accurate copies of his whip and he plans to do his best to provide us with the same whips made as close as possible to the originals.

Does this mean whips ordered through TASSC would be less "SA" than possible orders straight from TJ, or just more expensive. TJ is making the whips bought through TASSC correct?

I find this all amusing as we have NO idea what truely SA is in this case. We've not seen the movie. Gearheads, why did we have to be gearheads? (Altough a fan, I consider myself not a gearhead)

I guess people just want to be sure of what they're buying at the end of the day. That becomes difficult when original vendors start to veer away from their original screen-used designs. When you see an item you like in a TV commercial, you trust that the one you buy in a store will be the same.

This is true, but in my eyes, SA isn't the end all of a tool like a bullwhip. I appreciate the fact Morgan has continued to improve his design over the years. He see's it as a craft and skill being continualy refined. The end result is a tool for use, not looks and no matter what end result, be it a car, a whip, or a screwdriver, my hat is off to those who try and make their best, better. What I think is cool about this is we then have people like Bernardo stepping in to fill the gap left by no longer having an "older style" Morgan for those going after that niche. What a wonderful world we live in!

I agree with you about refinements being positive from a user's perspective. But appearances are important to many people, and are often regarded more highly than performance issues. Take those who prefer classic muscle cars over modern day sports cars, for example. I think most Indy fans buy the gear because they want what they see more than they want how it performs. And they'd ideally like the original manufacturer to provide it, as, in theory, they ought to know better than anyone else how to construct it.

Well, so far we know that Louie Foxx, Bernardo, and Adam Winrich have put out KotCS whips to the best of our availble info. All come highly recommended.
*Rant Alert*
From what I've gathered here on the boards, most of the COW crowd aren't going to go for the Jacka, even when it is availble due to it handling and feeling different then a Morgan. This is one of those in escapable facts of this new whip. It's NOT a Morgan. And that seems to just rub some people the wrong way.
Now I don't have a Jacka, but Louie was kind enough to do me a up a Jacka transition on the MS. And boy, it IS different from any whip I've handled. With good and bad points. And if you look at the pictues we have of the whp in action, the Jacka transition, depending on your political bent, is plain to be seen. IMO that settles it. A new whip that is according to some, nose heavy and lighter then a 455 with a reinforced transition is the new holy grail for Indy whip enthusiasts.
Which leads me to question what is SA when it comes to this whip then? Does it include the handling charecteristics of a TJ whip? Or is it just about the look?
The current Morgan clones, no disrespect meant to the fine makers of these exellent whips, follow the Morgan formula for a 455 whip as published and discussed at length. It's part of what makes any Morgan handle like a Morgan. See the "Cairo Flash" thread.
But now we have a Jacka whip, which will handle like a Jacka whip. And it can be a tough transition I've read if you're used to the weight and movement of the 455. Will we have people asking for a Jacka look-a-like that handles like a Morgan? From where I'm standing, for the sake of it, that's not SA, as it doesn't handle, look, or feel, as the REAL whip does.
Or it might be, as SA seems to contridict and be hypocritical when the need arises to suit the greater good as opposed to the product in question. Time will tell.
*End Rant*

While I am a whip enthusiast first and foremost, I consider myself a pretty serious Indy fan and a closet gear head. Last time I checked, screen accurate means identical to what appears on screen and although the film isn’t out yet, we have seen enough movie stills and trailer clips to know which whip is which and we can match them up pretty closely to want copies. I'll admit, that If I am buying an Indiana Jones bullwhip, from David, Joe or Terry or any copy of a particular movie whip for that matter, I do want it to be as close as possible to the whip I see in the film. Otherwise I’ll just order a custom made whip to suit my individual requirements.

Adam, I am with you a 100%, best not to say too much until we have the facts on what took place. If it’s just a rumor then it’s best not to perpetuate it. If the situation is true, it will come out.

Anthony and Mary are pretty open to having visitors up at their ranch and they are very hospitable. I’ve been invited out a few times but I never seem to get out to California. Our friends Brett Copes and Todd Abrams (Jack Dagger) go up to Rancho Indalo to work with him on occasion too, you should give them a call when you’re in the LA area. Given your own whip-cracking ability, I really think Anthony would want to meet you as well.

redsleighdown wrote:Does this mean whips ordered through TASSC would be less "SA" than possible orders straight from TJ, or just more expensive. TJ is making the whips bought through TASSC correct?

No, Not less screen accurate. Terry makes the TASSC whips too, so the ones he will be offering will be the same style Indy 4 bullwhip he supplies to TASSC but he will be able to supply them to us at his normal bullwhip prices, at least with the 8ft model for sure. Unfortunately TASSC tacks on a VERY steep retail charge.

These whips will be as close as possible to the whips he sent to for the film last year. The Bullwhips used in the film where broken in prior to filming and may have been slightly modified by the studio. I really haven’t seen anything that indicated that the movie whips Terry supplied where dyed, but I have reason to believe that those darker knots that have appear on some of the movie bullwhips were darkened by the studio.

Since we will be able to order directly from Terry he may be able to do more color customizing for us, where as with the TASSC whips its either antique brown or black. So if someone wanted darker knots on their whip that appeared on some of the screen used whips, they could probably get that. That’s one of the details we are working out. Another thing to keep in mind when buying a whip for the sake of it being a Screen Accurate item, is that since each whip is hand made there is always going to be some slight variation from whip-to-whip. It’s virtually impossible to exactly match up a whip to one used on screen exactly as there are slight differences in thickness of the hides, strand width, even the color as different batched from the tannery will produce slightly different shades of brown or tan, They all darken up though. A lot of this will be covered in much greater detail in the updated bullwhip pages exclusive to Indygear.com

Dan

I love this place

Well, to me at least, SA is primarily how it looks, but handling how the original screen-used ones handle would score maximum SA points. Therefore, ideally I would want the TJ to look and feel like the one used on screen. And I think it sounds like a very interesting whip with the reinforced transition. I've got a DM, so I'd be happy to have another whip that handles differently.

Satipo wrote:I've got a DM, so I'd be happy to have another whip that handles differently.

And that IMO is very good place to be

hollywood1340 wrote:

Satipo wrote:I've got a DM, so I'd be happy to have another whip that handles differently.

And that IMO is very good place to be

That and a bit more cash, and I'd be in heaven.

Satipo wrote:Well, to me at least, SA is primarily how it looks, but handling how the original screen-used ones handle would score maximum SA points. Therefore, ideally I would want the TJ to look and feel like the one used on screen. And I think it sounds like a very interesting whip with the reinforced transition. I've got a DM, so I'd be happy to have another whip that handles differently.

I agree and I don’t think that’s going to be an issue with these new whips. Terrys whips are different though and they are made differently then Davids, but they are over all they are very nice whips. I know wouldnt be buying them if they wernt.

Dan