Club Obi Wan

Hey there, everyone. Just wanted to announce that my Magnoli HJ arrived in the mail today, and I am very pleased with what a great job Steve did blocking and shaping it. The fur felt was a lot softer than I was imagining for some reason. All the better. =)

My only question/concern is regarding the crown height. I would never have raised it if I hadn't been alerted to the fact that HJ makes a "short crown" version in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=27252&highlight=poet+cr ... hth+height

If you look at the photos (NOTE: The ruler has a quarter of an inch worth of plastic before measurements begin, so ADD 1/4 of an inch to what you see in the images), the crown height seems closer to 5 1/4 inches as opposed to 5.5. Is this the shorter hat, or do the crown heights in HJs vary somewhat? Let me know what you all think. I am wondering if this is the 'stunted' version of the HJ (which would be sad) or if others have noticed similar things with their Mag/HJs. When I have more time, I will take a few pictures that focus more on the bash. Unfortunately, the flash took away all definition.



Thanks, all!

Well I must say that it is one good looking lid and good job with the bashing. SA wise I dunno but I can say that the hat looks good on you.

Cheers, IS

I think that's a great hat, and would probably work better as a ToD or LC style fedora. I'd recommend relaxing that front pich, the crown will look much fuller.

Weston

Not to sound negative, but personally, I'd send it back. You spent a good $300 on this hat, it should have the correct dimensions. :junior: -M

imagine671, that is one great looking hat, I don't know about the crown height deal, maybe they are a bit different...I have no idea. When did you order your hat? I got a message from Magnoli two weeks ago that my hat would ship the week he e-mailed me, and arrive within a week. It should have arrived last week and I have not received my hat yet. Magnoli responded to an e-mail I sent him the other day to keep my eyes out for it. I think the mailman probably thinks I am stalking him waiting for my package. I look out the window pretty much everytime he comes in anticipation and no package today Maybe tomorrow. I know Steve is busy making hats for all you guys so that could also put a delay on sending packages. That is one nice looking hat though, did you ask for any styling on it or did you just want it open crowned?? Well maybe my big head is why I have to wait for my wait. Nice hat, wear it well.

IndianaChris

First: Thanks for the replies so far, everybody.

Next: Hey there, IndianaChris. It seems you and I got the exact same e-mails at the same time. My hat was supposed to come last week and it came today (Tuesday), so I imagine you will receive yours in the next couple of days. I had the same experience with the postman. I was convinced every noise outside was my hat arriving. =) Thanks for the nice comments. The hat is very nice - just want people's opinions on the dimensions.

-Steve

Thanks imagine, I hope I do get my hat soon, and I know it will get here eventually. I pretty much had the reaction to any noise outside too, I was like is that the mailman....darn just a truck going by.
I think the dimensions is fine, I guess what is important is how it looks on your head. If you feel that the extra 1/4 of an inch is going to make it look better than I am all for that. You might want to measure with clothing measuring tape and not a ruler, you probably will get a more accurate measurement with measuring tape and not a straight edge. It is a great looking hat though, your decision. See what other experienced people say about your Magnoli/AB/HJ.

IndianaChris

To be pefectly honest, (not focusing on the brim) it looks like a derby to me from front view. I know a lot of it is that the flash makes the bash semi-invisible. However, the height definitely stands out to me as being shorter than what I'm used to looking at. Otherwise, it looks like a great hat and not too bad on your head, it just does not look especially "Indiana Jonesish" to me. I hope my comments are taken in the spirit they are offered, which is that of an honest opinion. I'm not trying to bash anyone or anything here. I only have the photos you have provided to go by and that's how I see it. Does it really have a center dent? Because I can't see it from the angles that are posted. Maybe my impression of the hat is an optical illusion since it also looks kind of small on your head for some reason. It also might help to position the camera a bit higher. It doesn't look quite as short from side view for some reason.

I think it looks just fine and you're wearing it too low. Move it back farher on your head a bit and see what that does.

I disagree Agent5. I wear my hat low on my head all the time, and it always looks taller than that. :junior: -M

Hi, bigrex. Thanks for the feedback. No offense taken...no worries. =) These are all good things to know. I figure if there were something seriously off with the hat, you'd think Magnoli and Steve would have taken notice, so I'm not TOO concerned. And, at the end of the day, we're talking about 1/4 of an inch here - we all have no need to fear the earth standing still. HOWEVER, ya...legitimate questions, I say. And, for your reference (regarding center dent, etc), I've posted some pictures of just the hat itself which highlight what a good bashing job was done by Steve on the hat (IMHO). The brim seems fine as well. Though the purpose of this post is to find out other people's opinions, not my own. =)



Cheers!

Ok, I can tell a lot more about the hat from the second photo set. Definitely a great bash and definitely a nice looking fedora. Maybe a hair short if you're going for the Raiders bash (IMHO). Looks like it's rolled if I'm not mistaken, that's always a plus in my way of thinking. I guess you may have been wearing it a little low as agent5 observed. You might try wearing it higher and pulling it slightly more forward in angle?

Hey Imagine671, congratulations on the HJ. I think it looks great, especially from the side, which is often the "weakest" view. My Magnoli HJ looks very similar to yours in some of my early photos but different in others. I'd say it's more likely the photo than the hat. I also had to try to replicate the bash as it had mostly disappeared during delivery (although the felt may have retained some "memory", making it fall into place). Give it some time and remember, photos and lighting can distort your impression.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3153/232 ... ba.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2011/232 ... b2.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2148/233 ... f7.jpg?v=0

The main thing is YOU have to be happy with it. See what Magnoli and Steve Delk have to say. And remember, with the recent confirmation that the "cairo" Raiders hat was an HJ, and Steve making half of the new Indy hats,
your new arrival is a pretty special creature!

Tron

It does look very good on you! Other than that I hesitate to give an opinon, being a relative newcomer to COW and still have a lot to learn. It doesn't look very Raiders like to me though. As I said, looks good on you though.

Randy

I appreciate everybody's feedback so far. Even the constructive criticism has been very positive. Keep it coming. =) Ya, I'll wait and hear what Steve and Magnoli have to say, but this is probably one of those things I'll take in stride. If it's a little short, eh...such is life. If they think it's TOO short, then maybe I'll take it a step further. As long as I have the normal HJ poet offering, that's fine - just hoping it's not that 'short-crowned' one we see offered in Todd's clearance site. With one of the new Federations on order, I figure I can still have the best of both worlds (albeit expensive 'worlds', but Indy worlds nonetheless). The AB is next on the list, but I need to cool my heals a bit and wait til the coffers have a few less cobwebs in them.

Alright, I worked on the bash a bit today...tried to make the front of the hat look a little taller. Let me know what you all think.



Cheers everyone!

Definitely an improvement. I still would send it back if it were me, but it's a nice hat either way. :junior: -M

DUDE please don't send it back look at this pic from Raiders:

Your hat is defitnatley a good height !!!

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ns/r16.jpg

The center crease looks high enough although to me the sides of the crown sort of slump off prematurely and are sort of on the shorter end. Doesn't seem to affect the side view for whatever reason. Compared to the hat in the poster behind you it still looks somewhat on the shorter side to me although it is less so.

It's much improved with your tweaking. The pinch is tighter, and it does appear taller. Just compare it to the Raiders poster behind you.

Yeah...I can see what you mean by the hat dropping off in the back. I raised the bash in the back, so it raises it a bit. I also decided I like the down-turned back brim, as well. So, those are the most recent updates. Thanks, everyone.

I don't know if comparing it to the poster is a good idea. I agree that it looks even better than before, although, I think you need to turn it and center the pinch more. Also, taking pictures yourself, holding the camera as you are, will almost always provide a distorted perspective.

Tron

off topic but what shirt are you wearing in the most recent photos?

That's an interesting question, interchange, and I have a quasi-interesting answer to it. The shirt, I found at H&M in York a couple months ago. I had originally ordered some pilot shirts on eBay, but they weren't nearly accurate enough for my tastes. The curious bit about this particular shirt is that when I bought it, it was stark white. I then proceeded to dye it using a mix of different teas in my large kitchen sink. After that was done, I sent it through the wash and BAM...there you have it. It's not EXACTLY the stone colour you'll find in Magnoli or AB offerings, but it's close enough for my tastes at the moment (and my wallet) and the fit is excellent. Most of these shirts come too wide for me and they end up hanging like boat sails on my sides. This one is just right. SO, long story short - H&M medium, white safari-style shirt.

imagine, don´t do one thing, don´t send your hat back
Your hat looks fantastic

imagine671 wrote:That's an interesting question, interchange, and I have a quasi-interesting answer to it. The shirt, I found at H&M in York a couple months ago. I had originally ordered some pilot shirts on eBay, but they weren't nearly accurate enough for my tastes. The curious bit about this particular shirt is that when I bought it, it was stark white. I then proceeded to dye it using a mix of different teas in my large kitchen sink. After that was done, I sent it through the wash and BAM...there you have it. It's not EXACTLY the stone colour you'll find in Magnoli or AB offerings, but it's close enough for my tastes at the moment (and my wallet) and the fit is excellent. Most of these shirts come too wide for me and they end up hanging like boat sails on my sides. This one is just right. SO, long story short - H&M medium, white safari-style shirt.

thanks. as I type I'm looking online at the H&M US site. It's pretty close looking in the photos.

Edit::

no online shopping in the US and no locations in Fl. I did have a friend in Chicago who shopped there but he moved so no dice on that. ha

Thanks for all the input, everyone. It has been difficult for me, because I have been receiving a lot of conflicting advice/opinions. Some think the hat is totally off and should be sent back immediately, whereas others think it looks alright. It does appear a little shorter than what Magnoli advertises on his site, but it might be that this is simply what HJ is producing currently. There's no doubt that the hat bears a better resemblance to more of the TOD and LC look (it just so happens that my bash is RotLA). In regards to having it sent back...I'm torn. Six months ago, before I even started looking on these forums, I would have taken one look at this Magnoli HJ and said, "That is the Indy hat". Since being here, though, I've learned about all the subtleties and quirks that make the Raiders hat what it is and it is very easy to want to focus on the imperfections of every hat that doesn't resemble it down to the tee. As a hat, this HJ is fantastic. The felt is very soft and the ribbon is what I was looking for, etc. If I want THE Raiders hat, then that is where AB comes in. The $300 spent on this HJ IS a lot...that's true, but it is not in my nature to turn away a perfectly good product on account of the fact that it's 1/4 of an inch too short. I have one of the new Feds on order. Hopefully that offering will satiate my SA needs, and if it doesn't, I'll try not to get my panties in a twist, as it were. =)

Thanks to all of you who've offered your thoughts on the matter. I agree with the contingent that believes this hat is a bit shorter than what we see in Raiders. I'd be lying if I said it didn't bug me just the SLIGHTEST bit, but on the whole, it's not worth sending back to Magnoli in disgust, because I am very pleased with the QUALITY of this hat and the effort Steve put into making it unique. As it's a Poet and not the same model as the actual Raiders hat, it could probably use an LC bash, but what can I say...I'm a Raiders man. Take care, all!

I think the hat is fine...but like most modern HJ's it does serve as a better TOD/LC in my eyes. That being said...the hat looks great on you, and I would keep it.
Ron

imagine671 wrote:Yeah...I can see what you mean by the hat dropping off in the back. I raised the bash in the back, so it raises it a bit. I also decided I like the down-turned back brim, as well. So, those are the most recent updates. Thanks, everyone.

Sorry, I guess I was unclear. I outlined your hat crown in green where it would be if it were not prematurely rounding. I also outlined Indy's hat in red on the poster as well. Again, the view provided by the images may be just an optical illusion that I am commenting on. Anyway, I guess I've made my thoughts clear. I'll refrain from further comment, no sense belaboring the point. In short, if you think the hat is fine, it probably is, if you are not happy with it, you might consider a refund considering you paid $60 short of what an AB costs.

I don't think the comparison of a "flat" poster on a wall with a photo of a presumably 3-D individual (imagine, you are 3-D right?) will give an accurate assessment of differences/similarities. Imagine needs to have someone else take photos in different lighting conditions, from different angles and different distances. I'm no photographer, but correct crown height or not, these pictures are not a good source to judge from.

Tron

Thanks for that effort, bigrex. Appreciate it. The only thing to note about that pic is that my head is tilted up whereas Indy's is not. The hat looks a little more 'squared off' when you look at it straight on, but that doesn't mean it isn't a little short. =) Take care.

It does seem just a pinch (no pun inteded) short to be screen accurate. That being said, If you are not too concerned with it being SA the pros definately outweigh the cons. Look at it this way: You have beatiful hat that looks great, it is deifnately an Indy style fedora and it is a Herbert Johnson. All in all you recieved a great hat. I wouldn't send it back unless you really bought this for the sole purpose of being screen accurate.

Dave

can you have someone else take a photo of you wear your hat. That will give us all a better shot at you hat. There is nothing wrong with dropping a line to IM and ask him about the height of your hat (beforehyou start messing with it to much).

I'll get some pictures up taken by someone else, as soon as I can. For the time being, here are two images. The first is the tiny thumbnail available on Todd's website, which advertises his short-crown HJ (http://www.toddscostumes.com/clearance.htm). The second is a pic of my hat in its open crown state. Does my crown look ANY taller than the one listed on Todd's site? It would be nice if, at the VERY least, I could be assured my hat is not the short-crown HJ. If all HJ's have crowns as short as mine, then that's what I get in ordering an HJ. However, if I accidentally received one of these anomalies, then I should look into having it replaced. Cheers, everyone!

I pointed Steve to this thread and what seems to be the biggest problem is the width of the brim (for your face). A little trim to the brim will make this hat look much better, in our opinion.

As for the crown height, compare with the screenused original:



Kind regards,
Magnoli

Indy Magnoli wrote:I pointed Steve to this thread and what seems to be the biggest problem is the width of the brim (for your face). A little trim to the brim will make this hat look much better, in our opinion.

As for the crown height, compare with the screenused original:



Kind regards,
Magnoli

BRAVO !!! :!:

Exactly you might have one of the most accurate crown heights here!

Hey there. Thanks so much for the suggestion Indy Magnoli (and Steve). I've spent so much time looking at the hats on these sites (all of which vary, even subtly), that I was lost as to how my hat looked in comparison. Perhaps I've spent too much time looking at people's Federations (which are notorious for their high crowns). In any case, like I said, I am extremely happy with this hat, and now that you have given me some assurance that it is what it's supposed to be, I wouldn't DARE think of sending it back. In fact, I encourage any of you toying with the idea of getting a Magnoli HJ to do so. I do not own an AB, so I cannot attest to its remarkable quality (unfortunately), but I'll say that what Mag and Steve do with this hat is incredible. Thanks for the offering! In regards to my face, IM wrote:

Indy Magnoli wrote:I pointed Steve to this thread and what seems to be the biggest problem is the width of the brim (for your face). A little trim to the brim will make this hat look much better, in our opinion.

Perhaps it is my hair which needs the trim and not the hat? Maybe both?? =) Thanks again, and cheers to all the other COW members who have offered me extremely helpful feedback. I think I'm on COW more than my e-mail, facebook or instant messenger combined! Now just waiting for the new Federation from Ron... =) Take care, all!!

I hate to be the one to rain on the parade, but looking at your pics, I can't help but think that the crown of your hat is DEFINITELY too short. What may seem like the slightest difference in measurements when it comes to crowns and brims can make a huge difference on how the hat actually looks, and in this case I think you really need a bit more height in that crown. Also of note, in the shot where you've got all the dents popped out on your hat, the front part of the hat, namely around the front pinch, looks to be horribly tapered, much more so than a new hat should be. That's doubtlessly another factor contributing to the way the hat looks now. The brim, on the other hand, looks fine to me.

I also can't quite fathom how a screen-used Raiders fedora that is nearly 30 years old and is in no where near the same condition it was in back when Raiders was filmed (felt does shrink, after all) should have any bearing on the way your hat should look. If I'm not mistaken, the idea is to replicate the hat we see on screen in Raiders, not the way that same hat looks now in a display case, right?

Anyways, if it's advice you want, then mine would be to send it back. Why pay $300 for a hat that you're not 100% happy with?

-GCR

Thanks, GCR. You may very well be right. From what I can tell, the hat is shorter than what we see in Raiders. I have not deluded myself into thinking that my hat is suddenly screen accurate, just to make myself feel better about the purchase. And I AM one for screen accuracy, BUT in the defense of Magnoli, he never once advertises on his site that you get a Raiders hat if you order an HJ from him. I'm also assuming Fedora used the Raiders block he uses for every other Magnoli HJ he sends out, and it probably would have jumped out at him if this hat was significantly different than the other Magnoli HJs he's dealt with. So, as the actual hat goes, there's not much I can do, in good conscience. If Magnoli had sent me a different product than he has sent to everyone else, then I would definitely ask for an exchange, but if the crown-height is an HJ issue, then I will accept it and be extremely happy with a finely crafted hat. Thanks for the two cents, though. I am anxious to hear the opinions of all interested in providing them. Later!

EDIT: I decided to take a profile shot of my hat next to the original HJ ScreenUsed posted. You can see that the front and back of my HJ have taper that the sides do not (causing the front pinch to slant more when looked at from the side).


YES, that is a Foster's pint glass holding up my hat just in case anyone was wondering! =)

Anyone else have a recent Magnoli HJ purchase to compare with out there? (Last 6 months) Just kind of curious.

I think if it seems "off" enough to worry about it at all, that's reason enough right there to find another hat. No matter how many people might say "it looks fine" you'll always have that nagging feeling that something is amiss. And I believe it is too short to make a good looking Raiders fedora. Better to fix the problem now, and not keep trying to convince yourself that the hat looks okay.

Tron posted links to his Magnoli/AB/HJ, at his very recent too, he got I think two weeks ago or so. I don't have mine yet, I think because I gave Steve pics of myself so he can shape the hat to what I look like might be the reason for the longer wait for my Magnoli/AB/HJ.

If your thinking this hat is too short in crown height and it is going to bug you that much imagine, I just would return the hat. I think I would take Magnoli's and Steve's advice about the brim, but that is just me. They know more about hats than I do. If Raiders is what your looking for then, this may not be your hat, this could be a great TOD hat if you crease it that way. It is up to you imagine what you want to do with this hat, whether to return it and wait a good wait to get another hat or keep this one and go with it. I would keep it and turn it into a TOD hat, but that is just me. Still is a nice hat imagine, but if your looking total SA, then it is shorter than the 5.5 crown. No guarantee of that on Magnoli's site.

IndianaChris

If it bothers you, then send it back. Just remember that after all the dust settles it is still an HJ and has that value to it. Like I said before, If you are not concerned with SA then don't worry. But, since you said that you are concerned with it being SA, then you might consider sending it back. If it is a matter of HJ crowns being so short then go with an AB.

Dave

You know, I thought mine was too short, as well. But I happened to have it sitting on a rack on my entertainment center about a month after it came (still playing with the bash at the time). Coincidentally, I watched Raiders. Halfway through, I started looking back and forth from the tv to the hat, and it struck me that Ford's hat looks different hieghts in different shots (and from different angles). At times, mine looked spot-on! In fact, more often than not, it looked right. I have never thought it was too short again!

Just a thought, did you make the front pinch befor you creased the centerdent? You might try popping the dents out and making a good centerdent first, the go for the front pinch. It is surprising what a difference such a simple thing as that can make.

Weston

Hey Imagine, I see that Magnoli weighed in on this discussion. He gives his opinion regarding the brim width (I trimmed my Federation ever so slightly, making it almost an entirely new and more satisfying hat) but did he comment on the possibility that this is a shorter crowned body accidentally sent to Steve? I know that was one possible theory proposed by you. I was wondering if it could be the hat size itself? It seems I recall Steve saying he used oversized raw bodies in assembling these HJ's to accommodate the re-blocking (or something like that). I may be completely out to lunch, but if you have a larger hat size, would it not create a height to width look that created an illusion of a shorter crown? I know when I wore my hair longer, I bought a ball cap that fit great. When I cut my hair short, I looked like a little kid wearing my dad's cap!
You may end up with the most scrutinized, mysterious fedora since the original!

Tron

I think Weston might be on to something. Perhaps you should try opening up the crown and setting a deeper center crease before making the pinch. Here is my HJ which I popped out and rebashed with a soft, shallow, center crease, trying to emulate yours:



Then I gave it a deeper center crease and returned the pinch to how I normally wear it to try and match the original a bit more:



What do you think?

Kind regards,
Magnoli

deffinetly an improvement there, Magnoli.

you can see by these pictures that you need to give more into the center dent by the comparison pictures:



deepen it a little more in the back

Yep, deepening the dent in the back looks much better. However, if I deepen the center dent in the front too much, then the hat becomes ridiculously low-looking. So, I don't really know a way around the slanting front pinch. In order to keep it good-looking from the front, it needs to angle from the side. Not sure what the solution would be, save for a higher crown. I toyed with the idea of bashing it LC style, but we'll have to see...that involves some brim work, and I happen to like this brim...

EDIT: LC Bash Pics (The last I take - let me know what you think of my solution - I will bash my new Fed in the Raiders style when I get it)

Hey, that last photo looks great! The LC bash definitely works better (IMHO).