Club Obi Wan

Well I certainly hope so!

Some of you might remember that MANY, many moons back, MK was able to see and take some pictures of an un-worn #405 made back in 1975.

This boot has always been THE boot for me. It has the PERFECT color (not the brickish red we see nowadays) and even the inside was lined differently.

After trying all sorts of leather cream - colored and un-colored - on my own 405s without ever getting them to look as desired, I gave up and took up on other projects.

However it kept bugging me and I finally contacted Alden, told them who we are and what we do and how the current 405s are NOT what the discriminating fan wanted. By reference, reference and reference again, I finally got in touch with the sales representative who responsible for northern Europe. He liked the story of AB and our commitment to quality, craftmanship and accuracy and invited me to meet with him later this year. This weekend I'm going to meet him and will bring pictures of the famous boot that MK examined back then. He told me that the chances aren't to shabby for Alden to make the boots as "back in the days" for Adventurebilt exclusively

I actually didn't want to tell the story before everything is in dry clothes, but excitement got the better of me

Stay tuned and wish me good luck,

Marc

EDIT:

Dear all,

as you can read below I am very happy to announce that Adventurebilt is now official Alden retailer. I'll even get the engraved brass plate for my hat shop, so this is a moment of pride I'm having here

What can I offer? - I can offer you THE boot. Made by the same company, using the same color, the same leather, which will be treated as it was "back then" both before and after it has been turned into the AB 405, with the same lining the same stitching the same everything. This is NOT a replica or a very close enough but THE real deal.

What does it take? - In order to get the boots made to the exact same specs. as "back then", it takes a min. order of 12 pair of boots. Once this amount has been reached, the order will be placed and the boots manufactured. Please understand that once the order is placed, I cannot re-order before the next dozen is full.

How much will they cost? - The retail price is 450 Euro plus shipping per Aldens request.

Regards,

Marc

I'd certainly be in line to get one! I'd wish you guys 'good luck', but knowing AB, you guys certainly won't need any!

Thats fantastic Marc, I'll be watching this with great interest

Can we get to see the photos MK took?

Marc I hope you have luck with this. Also, see if you can menage to offer them for cheaper than the price we're bound to usually pay for those bloody boots.
As Platon said, it would be interesting to see MK's pictures

I would also like to see the MK pictures.

Can't wait to hear more about the result of this meeting.

Ace

Erri wrote:Marc I hope you have luck with this. Also, see if you can menage to offer them for cheaper than the price we're bound to usually pay for those bloody boots.

Well, Erri, you can probably bet that if they're special made just for a fan base of a movie, they will likely cost more. I wouldn't expect to pay less for them than a standard pair of 405's, anyway. Aldens are all handmade, so it's not like you could get a savings like you would from a factory made boot. Don't get your hopes up, at least. Still, I'll be interested to see what transpires.

binkmeisterRick wrote: Well, Erri, you can probably bet that if they're special made just for a fan base of a movie, they will likely cost more.

Narf!

Good luck Marc, I hope you can bring us the shoe we've all been waiting for. :junior: -M

Hmm...maybe I can wear out my current ones faster...and justify buying new ones!

To be perfectly honest with you I've always stayed away from the 405 because of the flat sole. Although it is SA, I never thought it was practical for a real adventure. That's why I got the J. Crew boot instead. Now if someone can offer the 405 with a slightly more 'rugged' sole...well, that would be incredible!!!

*Hint hint*

JulianK wrote:To be perfectly honest with you I've always stayed away from the 405 because of the flat sole. Although it is SA, I never thought it was practical for a real adventure. That's why I got the J. Crew boot instead. Now if someone can offer the 405 with a slightly more 'rugged' sole...well, that would be incredible!!!

*Hint hint*

Screen Accuracy or Death!

I do wish you the best of luck Marc, but I wish the marketing man even more luck. There's nothing the old Alden factory hates to do more than to depart from the 'norm', unless big bucks are in hand, and even then those projects are considered 'one offs'. They haven't cared about re-creating the color all these years, and have only been interested in obtaining hide, and the color decision came second. Consider the hideous pumpkin orange color we lived with for so long!

So, if he can get the factory to agree, you've got a good man there, but as bink says, prepare for sticker shock.

This is coming from a person who has crossed swords and pounded at the gates of Aldens since the mid 1980's.

Regards! Michaelson

JulianK wrote:To be perfectly honest with you I've always stayed away from the 405 because of the flat sole. Although it is SA, I never thought it was practical for a real adventure. That's why I got the J. Crew boot instead. Now if someone can offer the 405 with a slightly more 'rugged' sole...well, that would be incredible!!!

*Hint hint*

I agree completely which is why I recently bought these http://www.alden-of-carmel.com/index.cf ... ot_174.htm

Hmmm. I can see right off that this boot COULD cost more, "wholesale" Now, I think out of the box way too much, but I am thinking along these lines. The markup in clothing has always been extremely high. Not only in the apparel end, but shoes and boots as well. If Marc could live with a 30 per cent mark up, and just let this boot be a "part" of his overall profit mix, he could possibly sell the boot for the same price as the current Aldens.

I spent a part of my life in retail, I was a buyer for a corporation. It was also my job to price the many items that we sold, with the overall mix yielding a projected 30 to 32 per cent gross margin. I have a pretty good idea of what retail items actually cost, and what profit margins are generally assigned to various products.

Therefore if the retail price of a pair of Aldens is say 300 bucks, I will just about bet the wholesale was half of that. It could be even less than half of the retail cost. Unlike what I was in, the apparel and shoe retailers don't operate on 30 per cent gross margins. I used to go to the Twin Cities, right after Xmas each year, and spend my Xmas present money. A nice wool sweater back then, BEFORE Xmas would sell for 3 times the AFTER Xmas price. Now, this store was not losing a cent, at the highly discouted price. They were probably making 30 per cent even at that price.

With this in mind, I am very curious as to what the wholesale cost would be to AB. And what the mimimums would be in order to source this boot?

If the minimums are low, and the wholesale price "normal" it is possible to sell this boot for the same, or even a bit less than the Aldens bought from other shops. But, being a little pessimistic, unless the Alden makers already have the right leather, in the right color, the minimums would seemingly have to be rather high in order to justify even making them, just for AB. But if they still sell that color in another model of shoe, it would involve less labor, to just substitute the different color when they are running their current colored boot. It just depends upon how flexible teh factory is, and how effiecient it is. I am curious to see. Fedora

Michaelson wrote:I do wish you the best of luck Marc, but I wish the marketing man even more luck. There's nothing the old Alden factory hates to do more than to depart from the 'norm', unless big bucks are in hand, and even then those projects are considered 'one offs'. They haven't cared about re-creating the color all these years, and have only been interested in obtaining hide, and the color decision came second. Consider the hideous pumpkin orange color we lived with for so long!

So, if he can get the factory to agree, you've got a good man there, but as bink says, prepare for sticker shock.

This is coming from a person who has crossed swords and pounded at the gates of Aldens since the mid 1980's.

Regards! Michaelson

i couldn't agree with michaelson more. though i extremely hope you get this project off the ground, i am a little doubtful that alden will comply......i had to wait six months for a custom pair that was speced to my SA specs. after six months, someone (either my salesman or alden) dropped the ball on it. i didn't want to wait another six months so i just went to alden of carmel. their af64 is the right colour as far as i can see........wrong sole, but right colour

Sounds exciting to me, thanks for your persistence. No more red Ronald McDonald® shoes (I'm exaggerating again).

Marc you guys over at AB really do a lot for us as gearheads. We can never thank you enough. And if this all goes through put my name down!

This sounds like a Great idea!

I am curious though, as to how Alden could re-create a past color using reference photos.

It seems to me that part of the constant debate about SA color is at least in part due to the differences in lighting in any given scene.

My 405's are a fantastic color that appear to me to look very much like the boots indy wears in the desert truck chase. That they don't appear to mach the color in other scenes is OK with me. They would need to magically change color like some "mood ring" to always be SA!

I understand that many of you had to deal with some pretty unpleasant color offerings in the past from Alden, and I'm glad my 3 month old boots have satisfied me.

I would definitely spend $400. for authentic Raiders style 405's from ABD, but still wonder how this can be done without original boots to copy. (I wouldn't trust 30yr old photos and also wonder if boots from 1975 were the same color etc. as the Raiders used boots?)

Tron

michaelson can just send alden his 405's....then he'd have to go to the premier in flip flops though

Markup or not I would pay a higher price for a pair of legit SA Alden 405's...

Although my concern would be with the sizing. I could see a project like this as being a one off type of thing (Meaning it will be a one shot deal and after the boots are sold no more will be stocked). I don't see Alden mass producing a limited edition boot in each size. It would end up being a few pairs of each size which would lead to a nightmare situation in trying to get your correct size.

Still though it would be interesting to see.

Tron7960 wrote: My 405's are a fantastic color that appear to me to look very much like the boots indy wears in the desert truck chase. That they don't appear to mach the color in other scenes is OK with me.

Those were probably on a stuntman's feet on a second unit shoot. Having said that I actually like my brickish Aldens but I wouldn't mind having a proper brown pair.

Not to derail but I know of at least two Alden dealers who have special editions of the 405s and other Alden shoes produced just for their shops so I don't think it's that big of a stretch except for the fact that AB isn't an established Alden dealer. The pair I'd most like to have is cigar cordovan but you have to visit the shop in HI to buy them. They're $650. They have an "ultimate Indy boot" coming out soon and I'm curious that that'll be.

Here's a pic of the cigar cordovan. Hopefully the AB Aldens will look like this without the ridiculous pricetag(or trip to get them, not that I wouldn't want to visit Marc or Steve).

Ace wrote:I would also like to see the MK pictures.

Can't wait to hear more about the result of this meeting.

Ace

Here is the pics that I could track down of them...Not sure if there is more or not...

That's actually pretty much the colour of mine which I got five years ago from the San Francisco Alden store.

My pair looks pretty much identical in color to those after regular polishing with Alden's fine boot cream... Except shinier! I prefer that color to the cigar cordovans above it though.

You know, considering how, over on the Fedora section, the original Cairo hat looks much more of a red-ish brown in the collector's pics compared to how it appears in the Raiders screen shots, I think it's possible the same film/lighting colour altering effect occurred with the Aldens.

Not entirely relevant, but it kind of reminds me of what I once heard about the original Technicolor process: that they used to have to paint grass blue to make it look green on screen, or something like that.

So, Kittlemeier, you're saying that stuntmen on the second unit had different colored Aldens than Ford?

Still, no one has any thoughts on using 30+ year old photos as reference, or why we think 1975 edition 405's would be the same as Raiders boots?

Again, not to sound negative but it seems that when it comes to Indy's boots, many people would rather have boots that look like they imagine they "should" even if that "imagined boot" may not really be an accurate representation of the Raiders boots.

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to anyone, but with a wife and two daughters, I'm used to that!

Tron

I think what we've got here are two separate schools of thought as to how to obtain screen accuracy. One approach is to obtain something as close to what the original costume item looked like in the real world, behind the scenes; and the other is to match a real world item to how the movie version appears on the screen.

Tron7960 wrote:So, Kittlemeier, you're saying that stuntmen on the second unit had different colored Aldens than Ford?

Still, no one has any thoughts on using 30+ year old photos as reference, or why we think 1975 edition 405's would be the same as Raiders boots?


Tron

In a word, probably. I think, like today, they probably had more than one color to work with.

What I don't think is they strapped Harrison into the truck to get shots of him pressing the accelerator or stomping on the brakes. I'm assuming that's the shot your referring to, no?

The pictures of those boots are recent, within the last five years I think. The boots are new old stock from an Alden salesman that were photographed specifically because of the vintage.

The hero boots could have easily been Ford's personal workboots as that's how they were chosen, Nadoolman wanted Redwings. If they were his, they could have been from '75. My first pair is going strong, after a resole, after six years.

That makes sense, the boots being New "old stock". I wasn't clear on that.
And yeah, I agree that It's probably not Ford stomping on the accelerator, I just would be surprised if the boots used (I assume several pairs) were drastically different than Fords own.

Thanks for providing me with a different perspective!

Tron

Ok, just got back 1-2 hours ago. I had a GREAT time meeting with John from Alden!!! What a nice fella Though only comming to Düsseldorf / Germany to meet and great the retailers over here and discuss their orders once a year, he took the time for my wife and me exclusively for almost two(!) hours and listened to my blabbering about screen accuracy and how gearheads would love to get a pair not only made EXACTLY as back in the early 80's but also to have the same liner, color, leather (which by the way should be treated as back then), stitches, heel and what else I could come up with. Of course I also had to fill him in on all the changes the boots had undergone during the last 20+something years and how this was "wrong" (from an Indyfan's point of view) and why they had changed the design from 1917 anyway / John listened to ALL of it in a mixture of fascination (I hope) and amusement (I fear) and asked me what exactly I wanted from him.
"Right... ummm... do you keep everything on file, like... ummm... I mean EVERYTHING?!"
"Yes we do"
"Oh, great... ummm... I mean like what thread was used to attach the liner to the tongue? - Stuff like that? - Or how the leather was treated AFTER the boot was made and then also what it looked like BEFORE the boot was made???"
"(laughing) Yes Marc, even stuff like that"
"Ah, ok... YOU DO???!!!"
I couldn't believe it and while my jaw was dropping to the floor, my wife became embarred over my obsession with stuff like the color of stitches that no-one could even SEE, I FINALLY got to the point that I had been so nervous about and asked if he would be willing to custom make THE boot for me.











The answer was yes

The price is high. QUITE high. However I want to see this project happen and if you're SERIOUSLY interested in getting a pair custom made to the EXACT same specs. please contact me.

Regards,

Marc

Err.. Marc... I'm afraid to ask... how much?

That's why I didn't write it in here as of now... I know, I'll have to do so sooner or later anyway, but if you want to get Alden to make it as detailed as I want, it's gonna cost you...

Regards,

Marc

"#### fool, I knew you were gonna say that." :junior: -M

Ps. I don't really think you're a fool Marc, that was just the only way I could get in the Han Solo line.

It's a juicy offer but I'm afraid this time I have to pass Marc. Anyway it's a great achievement to be able to offer something like that. Will this be sold through Adventurebilt or directly from Alden company?

I agree with Erri. As much as I'd love to have the most accurate boots in the business, I really have to pass. I can barely afford to get a pair of normal Aldens as it is. Good luck with this though, I hope plenty can spare the cash to do this. :junior: -M

Marc,

Ok, forgive a new guy for asking, but what exactly ARE the differences between the boots that were worn in Raiders and what Alden is offering now? I've got three pair and between daily wear, and occasional polishing, mine are sort of a british tan/brown. I sell Aldens and no, I wouldn't consider the fresh from the factory boot color SA. I've been told by my Alden Sales Rep that they are "stitch for stitch the same boot from the films". So now you have my professional curiosity piqued. What are the differences that would cause Alden to jack up the price EVEN MORE!!!

Thanks, Schmidty

Marc,

Since you're now an official Alden retailler can you also order the regular alden 405's from you ? And should you need repairs can that also go through you?

thanks

Dirk

#### weak USD! $700US as of today. Maybe I can go get the ones in HI. Nah!

Question, is Steve gonna deal in these? Maybe without the double exchange rate the price would be better for those of us on this side of the pond.

Almost posted this without saying a great big thanks to Marc for the effort.

$705 USD for a pair of shoes, impressive. That should cover any cost Alden's should ever expect to incur in their production. A little initial sticker shock. That's about par for the course though, no surprises there. I agree with Neolithic on exploring whether just the color could be changed to put it more in line with the current Alden pricing, within a hundred fifty bucks or so.

Congratulations Marc and thanks for doing this!

At $700.00+ I don't think I can take the plunge at this time. (not that you will need me to continue your success!) I'd love to have these but my problem is I would want to wear them!

Oh well, I hope it continues, maybe I can talk myself into getting in on a future order of 12! (I've talked myself into less rational things!)

Thanks

Tron

I've begun the process of talking myself into a pair of these.

What kind of "Documentation" will come with these? A letter from Alden and AB explaining the "authenticity" of the details would go a long way towards my "justification" of this purchase!

Thanks

Tron

I respect your passion for going the full distance with regards to an accurate boot down to every stitch, but the price does scare me a little. Would the price be reduced if the only change to this custom 405 is the leather colour?

This is great news Marc that you are an official Alden Dealer now. Great news on the shoes, going to be almost as expensive as one of your hats. I would really like to have a pair, but I just cannot afford these shoes and boots at the moment. I am very interested, maybe if I get this job soon hopefully I could afford these boots over time, probably a long time. Maybe next year, things are kind of tight at the moment. Great news though, thanks for doing this for us Indy gear heads who have always wanted this. Great job, looks like it could be a one stop shop at AB someday. Kind of stinks you have to order them in dozens. Oh well, outstanding effort Marc you have outdone yourself. I just don't understand why Alden has changed the color of the boot to the one the offer now. I guess they just did not care about the color anymore. Thanks for this great offer Marc, interested in these boots just cannot afford it at this time.

IndianaChris

i concur with everyone else's sentiments marc i'm happy that you've got alden on board beneath the AB banner. 2 brands that go very well together based on quality and craftsmenship.

i am also shocked with the price though. why so high? when i speced out my custom boot to my alden rep here, it was the cost of the boot $300 or so clams plus a $150 customization fee.....still well below the $700 or so USD that you have quoted. is it the whole german tax stuff that's boosting the bill? i also apologize if i didn't read it previously but was there also a schedule that was proposed? i was quoted 3 to 4 months (which turned into 6) when i was dealing with them. though i would love to partake in this exciting adventure, i still have some af64 rugged alden's to break in.....those cost $405 (...for 405's....oh the humor and heartbreak of it all ).

good on ya! thats a great victory for you and AB! however that price is just too high! i have a few suggestions though on how to bring the price down. just ask John (at alden) if he can make them exactly like the current 405's but with these customizations...

1-the old leather color. As I dont think anyone can see the color of the stitching on the tongue on their TV sets (even in high definition)! Or what lining or insole Harrison was wearing in 1981.

2-standard sizes only (no widths)

at least for the initial beta run....just to see how theyd come out. then you can see where that would lead?

Just my 1cent worth,

JOA

$746 Australian. We get ripped so bad over here Im gonna have to start the Aussie Indy store I think lol

Thanks everyone for your kind feedback.

I FULLY aggree that the price is VERY high and I wish I was allowed to sell them for less. As I said I was told to charge this price from Alden or I would be out. Period. The reason is rather simple. Right now Alden is round about 5-6 months behind. They feel comfortable with the workload they have and the amount of employees working for them. Believe it or not, but Alden is NOT interested in expanding and selling more and more and the official retail price that I was told to charge reflects this. Please understand, that John is doing a HUGE favor to us for actually taking up on this project to start with. He wouldn't have to and CERTAINLY he doesn't need to neither. See, even though it's called the "Indy boot", Alden never advertised the 405 as THE boot worn by Harrison Ford... They just don't HAVE to.

What kind of "Documentation" will come with these? A letter from Alden and AB explaining the "authenticity" of the details would go a long way towards my "justification" of this purchase!

If you desire so, I'd be glad to add a COA to each pair, claiming that these boots are EXACTLY as the ones worn by Harrison Ford in Raiders. No sweat.

Regards,

Marc

This is exciting, Marc! Why don't you see if they'll charge $900.00 a pair, so each of us middle-class or ???? COW members can buy 3 pairs each! Then we'll have plenty of THE Indy boot to spare! Forget about the mortgage/rent/car payment, we just need to get THE Indy boot. Are you going to slap a "deluxe" tag on the boot?

Please forgive my sarcasm, but personally, I think this is more of an insult than an offer. But that's just me.


TR

hey hey, calm down.. 450€ are a lot, but compared to standard Alden models we can buy here in Germany it is not too much. And I'm not even talking about customized shoes. If you ever come to Cologne/Germany, near the Cathedral there's a shop also offering (standard) Alden shoes with prices around 700,800€. - anyhow, how's Marc going to do it, importing the shoes to Germany and re-exporting them to oversea cusomers??