Club Obi Wan

I'm sure you can all agree with me that the special edition Raiders jacket just isnt up to par for most of us die hard gearheads. Especially when screen accuracy is concerned. Also, theres the fact that Peter has a list of specs for that jacket on the website and yet we are constantly hearing people complain that they did not get those specs on the jacket when they recieved it.

This has been mentioned before, but no one really pushed for it...

how about we all collaborate on what we can agree on as a list of screen accurate specs and give it to peter to get an ultimate jacket. Obviously this would be a bit pricier since it would be custom and require a lot of mods, but this is what a lot of us want isn't it? The ultimate screen accurate jacket by the original maker?

I know agent5's specs along with platons would make a great jacket. Platon has a picture of the pockets that is pretty #### good! We could give the set of specs to peter that way he will know EXACTLY what we want in order to get a screen accurate jacket. It seems that if we all order them seperatly like we do now, it only makes peter mad and we usually dont get all the thigns we asked for. Maybe if he recieves one ultimate list, it will be easier on him, and us. Although you will probobly be paying more than the current "screen accurate jacket" that is available, I, for one think it will be worth it!

And Peter seems like he wants to give us what we want, i'm sure he would be on board with this if enough of us chip in on it and voice our opinions!

Yeah... good luck getting people to agree on the specs. Peace in the Middle East is looking easy by comparison.

I understood my jacket to be a special "offer" not special "edition".
An off-the-rack, less expensive alternative to the "standard" or custom order.
Granted, the special offer jackets that some people are receiving are not as described on the website (fortunately mine was) which is unacceptable, but I never considered it a "special edition".

I may be mincing words, but to me, the two are different concepts.

Tron

how about we all collaborate on what we can agree on as a list of screen accurate specs and give it to peter to get an ultimate jacket. Obviously this would be a bit pricier since it would be custom and require a lot of mods, but this is what a lot of us want isn't it? The ultimate screen accurate jacket by the original maker?

I guess we should leave things the way they are.
If someone wants SA can buy from Todd.
If someone wants SA from the original maker, can order custom.
If he doesn't know what to order to get SA, that's his problem. He shouldn't bother for SA if he doesn't know what he wants.

The Standard and the other offerings are just similar jackets to what Indy wore and are very close to the real thing for the relaxed fan. Much like the disney official jacket.

The hardcore fan, who knows what SA specs he wants can always order custom. And Peter if he gets paid extra for the custom job I am guessing he will pay extra attention so you don't get the d rings instead of the rectangular sliders.

But then again, this is just my opinion.

If however you guys insist on agreeing on SA specs I will be happy to give my input, if asked.

CM wrote:Yeah... good luck getting people to agree on the specs. Peace in the Middle East is looking easy by comparison.

How's that going these days?

Also with regards to a jacket being “screen accurate”, what are you guys going to do when technology catches up and we have “smell-o-vision” like on my old favorite show Futurama. When that happens you’ll all really have your hands full trying to get screen accurate “stank”.

Yeah im totally down with the ultimate SA jacket.. even i noticed when indys leaning against the bar in Raiders the gills on his jacket look sewn up in comparison to myne. i love the feature of the gills in my jacket but would gladly sacrifice them when buying another wested/an ultimate SA wested.. plus any other minor differences.

Red Dust

even i noticed when indys leaning against the bar in Raiders the gills on his jacket look sewn up

Have a photo to illustrate that?

Much like the hat, I maintain that there is no such animal as the Ultimate Screen Accurate jacket for any of the films. Plain and simple. The best you can hope for is to nail a specific scene or even a particular shot, but otherwise, it's not going to happen. Obsession is 9/10 of insanity - remember that!

Much like the hat, I maintain that there is no such animal as the Ultimate Screen Accurate jacket for any of the films. Plain and simple. The best you can hope for is to nail a specific scene or even a particular shot, but otherwise, it's not going to happen. Obsession is 9/10 of insanity - remember that!

or you can have one jacket for every scene...

PLATON wrote:

Much like the hat, I maintain that there is no such animal as the Ultimate Screen Accurate jacket for any of the films. Plain and simple. The best you can hope for is to nail a specific scene or even a particular shot, but otherwise, it's not going to happen. Obsession is 9/10 of insanity - remember that!

or you can have one jacket for every scene...

or you can stop watching all the other scenes ...

For me, "SA" is a unicorn no one can catch. I've never wanted to try. I actually LIKE my Wested jacket. So what if it doesn't have x-box stitching or the collar-storm flap relationship is off by a micron - The overall jacket has all the right parts in all the right sizes put together in all the right places and it fits great.

While I'm at it - I LIKE Noel Howards "inaccurate" Raiders gunbelt and holster! My name is IndyFrench and I AM a "Down With SA" kind of guy.

There comes a point where there IS a "close enough" for me.

For the most part, I'm happy with a jacket that "looks like" an Indy jacket. Most of the offerings out there look so similar to me that even my black TOD Wested looks the part. For me it basically has to "look like" i.e. similar to what was worn on screen but it doesn't have to be an exact representation or copy stitch for stitch & wrinkle for wrinkle of said article. My hat is a Camptown. Do I have a particular bash? Well it's Raideresque, but no particular scene comes to mind. I have a WPG bag, but again no particular scene or film of the three can be pinpointed. When I finally get a pair of Alden 405's, that will be my most so called SA item, but unless I have access to the costumer's warehouse for any of the Indy films I'll never get SA & that is just kosher with me. Anything more than that & I think my family would have to do an intervention.
So, my upcoming Wested goatskin Raider will do the trick perfectly. If it has D-rings, so what? It will look good, keep me somewhat warm & dry & hopefully last many years. That's all I really need in an Indyesque jacket. What I always loved about the Indy jacket is what is offered out there. "The Look". The fact that it isn't an A2 makes it somewhat unique & stand apart.
So if you get a Wested, Todds or Magnoli or even the offering from Flight Jackets you are getting an Indy Jacket. That should be SA enough. Nit Picking beyond that is just silly. Besides, we should be happy that the vendors offer anything at all. With all of the complaining going on I surprised they just don't pull the lot and say, "Forget it, there is just no making you happy folks."


Cheers!

Dan

Attaining "the look" is partly subjective. I think it comes down to the individual's eye for detail. Some notice things others do not. Noticeable discrepancies can bug people, and convince them a jacket hasn't achieved "the look", particularly when it has been well-established how a specific detail should appear and there is no obvious reason why it can't be consistently implemented accurately.

I second that, Satipo.

IMO the ultimate SA jacket still doesn't exist (apart from the originals) and perhaps it never will, but I don't think it's a bad thing to come as close as possible.

I think the ROTLA special offer is a great step forward towards SA and adding & changing a few more details to that jacket is worth the effort.

Hence: skip the pads, satin sleeves, right piped pocket, left pocket zipper, silver D-rings and extend the collar to halfway the storm flap to begin with.

For a special SA ROTLA jacket offer this can't be wrong.


Toldog07, I'm your man.

I'm with you, Daniel Jones. No matter what lengths I go to find a so-called SA jacket, the body I'm putting it on isn't screen accurate. I'm not Indiana Jones, I'm not shaped like Indiana Jones, and don't even resemble him. The only resemblance is our age, now that I think about it.

Therefore, I want my jacket to be a reasonable facsimile of an "Indy" jacket, as accurate as possible without going to extremes. Most importantly I want it to fit and look good on me, not Harrison Ford.

I think we've got some great offerings out there. I own several from Wested, Todd's and G&B. They all have a lot going for them, but they all fit differently. I would really like to try a Magnoli's and a Todd's custom, but that will have to be later. Right now, I'm on a fedora binge.

That's what I think!
Randoman

Being a perfectionist is not really an admirable trait. While perfectionism can drive an artist to make great art (for instance), it also usually makes that person intolerable to those around them. This is not to say that a manufacturer shouldn’t make a product the same every time, as advertised. Cheers

Like above statements, SA will never truly happen with aftermarket Indy jackets. Too many differences from scene to scene, too many different jackets, etc. Yes, some details CAN be hammered down into place, but most of the tiny nuances from jacket to jacket will never be figured out.

That said, 99% of the people on the street that have seen an Indy movie will recognize the main details without a ton of studying it (like we do...):

-Cargo pockets with side entry handwarmers
-Action pleats
-Adjustment straps with D Rings OR Regtangular buckles (depends on movie)
-Storm Flap (snaps on it if LC)
-Bucket Cuffs

-Maybe gussets under the arms, again, depending on the jacket

Those are what makes an Indy Jacket an Indy Jacket. After that, you get into muddy waters on which jacket had what and so on.

How about this: Since the Spec. Offer jacket is a lot closer to the Raiders jacket than the standard raiders, we just plead with peter to make that pattern the default Raiders jacket? the only thing it needs is the correct stormflap/collar connection and slightly lower arm seams.... Minor concerns that can be easily ironed out!

Also make it available in goat, HH, novapelle, etc.
C3

_ wrote:

Rundquist wrote:...it also usually makes that person intolerable to those around them.

See - Rundquist understands me PERFECTLY!

I dunno, but I like my jacket. I aged it myself, and I believe it looks pretty SA. But like others said before, there was more than one jacket used during the filming. So each jacket is going to have something different about it. And also, it depends on how closely you look. I understand that some notice things that others dont, and that's cool. But I'm overall happy with mine...but I wouldn't mind an EXACT replica of a s.a. Raiders jackt. It would be nice. But I'm content with what I've got.

Yeah - I don't see how an off-the-rack special offer Raiders is more accurate than an authentic Raiders in the 1980s cut. I'll err on the side of what Chris King unearthed personally.

I've known King for years online and he's a stickler for accuracy. He was extremely happy with the 1980s authentic Raiders...and so am I.

the 80's fit is definetly a start, but i think that the standard should have the cotton silesia lining, one piped pocket, no leahter facing, and sliders instead of d-rings. also an aluminum zipper that extends all the way to the bottom. This should be available in custom sizes as well.

i know there is no way to nail the jacket 100% but we can sure give it the best we got!

CM wrote:Yeah... good luck getting people to agree on the specs. Peace in the Middle East is looking easy by comparison.

Then this really isn't going to be good

For me, I'm satisfied with the knowledge that I got a jacket, hat, whip, or whatever from the original maker who supplied them to the movies. A few years ago for Halloween I wore an old bomber jacket, Disney fedora, and cheepo $10 whip and was the hit of the party because everyone got it. Now that I am close to having an entirely authentic outfit, I can't wait until October. And if anyone asks, then it will be fun to say, "Well the whip came from here, and the hat was made by so and so."

I don't want to obsess over whether it is SA or not, because in the end I know that unless I had an item that was actually used in one of the films, it ain't SA.

Toldog07 wrote:the 80's fit is definetly a start, but i think that the standard should have the cotton silesia lining, one piped pocket, no leahter facing, and sliders instead of d-rings. also an aluminum zipper that extends all the way to the bottom. This should be available in custom sizes as well.

i know there is no way to nail the jacket 100% but we can sure give it the best we got!

Who says those are the correct specs? Why would I want an aluminum zipper that would break? Nickel would be better. I'd take rectangular loops over sliders any day. Do You see the problem? Cheers

_ wrote:...
This circle-jerk of critiquing using stills was what caused the Expedition to "wander"...

Just to clarify, the "wander" part was before it was finalized, right?

I think I finally exorcised my SA demons, but it cost me nearly a grand before I realized that chasing leperachauns would be more likely to produce satisfying results. I love my Indy jackets even though there are some differences between mine and the jacket I see on the screen, but the overall look is right on all of them. No one is going to get a jacket that is so screen accurate that they will magically transform into Harrison Ford. For me, it is enough these days to know that we got our jackets at the same shop, mine is just a little updated, that is all. That said, I've got my eyes on the Todd's standard, and my wallet is ready to open and empty again!

Weston

Rundquist wrote:
Who says those are the correct specs? Why would I want an aluminum zipper that would break? Nickel would be better. I'd take rectangular loops over sliders any day. Do You see the problem? Cheers

Then that will not be screen accurate and you should order a standard raiders wested...see my point?

Reminds me of a shirt I once saw...

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3027 ... whthi9.jpg

_ wrote:Todd's? That would be my best bet today...

Would that be the Todd's custom or standard?

I guess SA plastic surgery is next. "Paging Dr. 90210 . . . How much for a SA chin scar?"

Yep, even if your jacket looks like a dream, sometimes it can't hide that a body may look kind of "non-ideally" suited to a jacket.

How much for a SA chin scar?

When I was in high school, I was SO close to taking a razorblade to my chin and making a real scar. Thankfully, my girlfriend talked me out of it. Actually, I do have a small, natural scar in roughly the same spot, but you have to look close to see it.

whipwarrior wrote:

How much for a SA chin scar?

When I was in high school, I was SO close to taking a razorblade to my chin and making a real scar. Thankfully, my girlfriend talked me out of it. Actually, I do have a small, natural scar in roughly the same spot, but you have to look close to see it.

I had three stitches under my chin where hair won't grow now, guess that doesn't quite count. At least I was trying to get my brother to quit running in the supermarket, but I tripped and ended up with the injury, maybe around 6 or 7 at the time.

Come to think of it, I do remember the pocket placement (more forward) on the G&B jacket. That redesign was done on board a QM summit event with Michaelson, MK and others discussing with Dave Marshall. The move forward did have a ripple effect down to Wested. Probably not US Wings.

Here's the modification specs:


From this thread after the mod was available:
viewtopic.php?t=4992&highlight=pocket+placement

Sergei wrote:Come to think of it, I do remember the pocket placement (more forward) on the G&B jacket. That redesign was done on board a QM summit event with Michaelson, MK and others discussing with Dave Marshall. The move forward did have a ripple effect down to Wested. Probably not US Wings.

My discussion with Dave was about the double thickness of the leather on the flap, as it caused the jacket to bulge and wouldn't lay flat. Dave agreed to make it a single thickness, and asked if he could use my jacket as a prototype so they didn't have to make up a new one, which I agreed to.

I had no part of the discussion regarding placement or shape. I figured it had been covered ad-nasium with _, and was where it needed to be.

Regards! Michaelson

Interesting... all I know is that the forward placement of the pockets make for a much more usable side entry to the pockets. Before, you had to be a contortionist to use those pockets. At least that was my experience.

Toldog07 wrote:

Rundquist wrote:
Who says those are the correct specs? Why would I want an aluminum zipper that would break? Nickel would be better. I'd take rectangular loops over sliders any day. Do You see the problem? Cheers

Then that will not be screen accurate and you should order a standard raiders wested...see my point?

I concede that if you want a screen accurate jacket, then you should have a broken aluminum zipper. Sliders are not screen accurate period. Rectangular loops are. You obviously don't agree. See my point?

_ wrote:MK asked for changes based on what he saw on screen... Dave conceded, I believe based on MK's contacts and the hopes that he might get one to Ford. Also, there was the general "monday morning quarterbacking" happening out here. In the end Dave asked if I minded them making requested changes. I responded something like "I saw what I saw, but it is your jacket to do as you like with..."

Life is compromise...

The issue was around the "unbalanced nature of the jacket. Every maker that has approached this pattern has commented on how unbalanced the pattern is. Both Tony Nowak and Bernie Pollack made very detailed comments on this... Again, MK got the changes made - based on an expectation by FS that MK would use his influence to get a jacket to Ford. I cannot speak to whether MK ever made such a promise, however in private conversations with MK he acknowledged he had no special avenues to do so...

Another guy that considered himself an expert based on pictures, no offense.

Wow you know guys I don't know if any of you have ever thought of the fact that if people keep making demands of Peter to change the jacket pattern yet again he may end up just saying forget it and not even take any custom orders on the Indy jacket. All in all I would say he has bent over backwards for us fans in all that he has done so far and a lot of people take advantage of that and treat his company like dirt.

If all of you "jacket experts" are so disappointed with what is available on the market then feel free to try and to make your own jacket and then the rest of us can tear apart every little imperfection. Because you know what? You will NEVER get a perfect copy of what you see in Raiders or ANY of the movies. There were many jackets used in the productions and NONE of them were exact copies of each other. In fact I bet if presented with an actual screen used jacket most of you would still find faults with it.

Another thing is even if you do find this mythical jacket that is "perfect" you will still not be happy and you know why? Because you are not Harrison Ford in the early 80's! I have yet to see anyone on this board (myself included) that has his exact build from back then.

Be happy for the offerings that we have for our Indy gear and don't whine about every little perceived imperfection because for a lot of these guys it would be really easy for them to take their toys and go home and we would be stuck with exactly nothing. Most of these guys have no problems making money from other sources other than from the people on this bored.

Todd's jacket has gussets?
(I can't remember)

_ wrote:

rebelgtp wrote:Wow you know guys I don't know if any of you have ever thought of the fact that if people keep making demands of Peter to change the jacket pattern yet again he may end up just saying forget it and not even take any custom orders on the Indy jacket.

Kinda not sure who this is directed at...

But, it is funny how certain topics elicit certain fears that never seem to come to pass... Like Peter getting fed up with us and walking away... He is more patient and logical than those who make that argument give him credit... Heck, anybody who would put up with me like he has deserves canonization... JMO...

One thing’s for sure, he has a sense of humor. I’m sure that he laughs his you know what off when he reads this board.

Mine too.

Regards! Michaelson

_ wrote:

rebelgtp wrote:Wow you know guys I don't know if any of you have ever thought of the fact that if people keep making demands of Peter to change the jacket pattern yet again he may end up just saying forget it and not even take any custom orders on the Indy jacket.

Kinda not sure who this is directed at...

But, it is funny how certain topics elicit certain fears that never seem to come to pass... Like Peter getting fed up with us and walking away... He is more patient and logical than those who make that argument give him credit... Heck, anybody who would put up with me like he has deserves canonization... JMO...

Definitely not aimed at you _. Its more geared at those that send Peter a 2 page grocery list of modifications they want on their jackets and those that are telling him that he should be changing his pattern purely based on their perceptions from what they see on the screen. Heck if I was going to take a stab at trying to make one of the jackets myself you would be one of the ones I would talk to, beings that you have actually handled some of the jackets in the past.

Its just ridiculous how some people want every little detail of the jacket to be just so when they are taking examples from multiple jackets used through the course of the movie.

I guess you could chalk it up to I don't care some much about screen accurate (cause its not gonna happen) as much as I do about having some really cool gear that is based on the stuff one of my hero's wore Besides a lot of my gear actually gets used in "Indyesque" fashion however some things like the boots and pants are replaced by more suitable articles.

Oh and on the Peter issue I know he will more than likely never stop making his jackets, but lets face it Peter is not getting any younger and some day someone is going to take up the reigns at Wested and we can only hope that person will be as patient as Peter is.

rebelgtp wrote:Definitely not aimed at you _. Its more geared at those that send Peter a 2 page grocery list of modifications they want on their jackets and those that are telling him that he should be changing his pattern purely based on their perceptions from what they see on the screen. Heck if I was going to take a stab at trying to make one of the jackets myself you would be one of the ones I would talk to, beings that you have actually handled some of the jackets in the past.

Its just ridiculous how some people want every little detail of the jacket to be just so when they are taking examples from multiple jackets used through the course of the movie.

I guess you could chalk it up to I don't care some much about screen accurate (cause its not gonna happen) as much as I do about having some really cool gear that is based on the stuff one of my hero's wore Besides a lot of my gear actually gets used in "Indyesque" fashion however some things like the boots and pants are replaced by more suitable articles.

Oh and on the Peter issue I know he will more than likely never stop making his jackets, but lets face it Peter is not getting any younger and some day someone is going to take up the reigns at Wested and we can only hope that person will be as patient as Peter is.

No offence, but I think you're missing the point here.

The whole idea is to give Peter a list of left over SA specs that are still not included in his jacket design to help Peter not to get any more "2 page grocery lists" and to satisfy most of the SA jacket fans even more.

We all know that "The Ultimate SA Jacket" doesn't exist, because different jackets were used on screen, but we can shorten the lists of nitpicking details Peter gets every day by offering him the SA specs that can be added without causing controversy.

And for your interest: this has nothing to do with whining or disrespecting Peter's excellent work; that's your interpretation.

Exactly ROM Hunter. If screen accuracy is not an issue to someone, then this forum shouldn't interest them at all. To each his own. Peters current offer is good enough for you and thats great. But some of us are screen accurate obsessive, and by improving peters list, it will benefit everyone i think...including peter so that he doesnt get anymore of those insane orders.

Rom Hunter wrote:

rebelgtp wrote:Definitely not aimed at you _. Its more geared at those that send Peter a 2 page grocery list of modifications they want on their jackets and those that are telling him that he should be changing his pattern purely based on their perceptions from what they see on the screen. Heck if I was going to take a stab at trying to make one of the jackets myself you would be one of the ones I would talk to, beings that you have actually handled some of the jackets in the past.

Its just ridiculous how some people want every little detail of the jacket to be just so when they are taking examples from multiple jackets used through the course of the movie.

I guess you could chalk it up to I don't care some much about screen accurate (cause its not gonna happen) as much as I do about having some really cool gear that is based on the stuff one of my hero's wore Besides a lot of my gear actually gets used in "Indyesque" fashion however some things like the boots and pants are replaced by more suitable articles.

Oh and on the Peter issue I know he will more than likely never stop making his jackets, but lets face it Peter is not getting any younger and some day someone is going to take up the reigns at Wested and we can only hope that person will be as patient as Peter is.

No offence, but I think you're missing the point here.

The whole idea is to give Peter a list of left over SA specs that are still not included in his jacket design to help Peter not to get any more "2 page grocery lists" and to satisfy most of the SA jacket fans even more.

We all know that "The Ultimate SA Jacket" doesn't exist, because different jackets were used on screen, but we can shorten the lists of nitpicking details Peter gets every day by offering him the SA specs that can be added without causing controversy.

And for your interest: this has nothing to do with whining or disrespecting Peter's excellent work; that's your interpretation.

The ROLTAA is actually fulfilling that role for the vast majority of purchasers. He is selling a lot of them.

I believe the latest batch no longer have shoulder pads and now have rectangular sliders. (The new goat).

For others I don't think the shopping lists will stop.

And for some of us, the "custom sized" is still the preferred route.

Kt Templar wrote:The ROLTAA is actually fulfilling that role for the vast majority of purchasers. He is selling a lot of them.

I believe the latest batch no longer have shoulder pads and now have rectangular sliders. (The new goat).

Great to hear that.