Jacket length? I told you...

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:12 am

I told you the jacket was long. That's a good pose.

Ok he's leaning a little forward but it's still long. What do you guys think?

Here's another one.

(starting to feel that Todd's jacket needs some tune up)

CM · Post by CM » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:17 am

Hi Platon,

Good photo. I think it's largely an optical illusion but I agree that the jacket is longer than many think.

I asked Peter if it was a short jacket when I ordered mine. He said, "No, t's worn well over the belt line around 3 to 4 inches."

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:19 am

I don't know that second shot doesn't look long to me. It looks like the front of the jacket is slightly below his belt. It also looks like the front of his jacket is hanging lower than the back is. My Wested does the same thing if it is not sitting square on my shoulders.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:23 am

It looks like the front of the jacket is slightly below his belt.

It seems you are looking at his gunbelt, not the pants belt.

I am starting to thing that the body of the jacket had almost the same (if not the same) length with the sleeves. Anybody else agree?

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:31 am

I certainly agree that it's longer than a lot of westeds out there. It's not a bomber jacket length for sure. My todd is longer in the body than my wested.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:31 am

No, I was not referring to the gunbelt, although it is below that as well in that shot. I still think that the jacket is hanging lower in the front than in the back and that this is causing it to look longer than it is. I think a straight on shot or a side shot where the jacket is hanging evenly in the front and back is needed before it can be determined if the jacket is longer than was previously thought.

Regards,

SJ

Labbas · Post by **Labbas** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:00 am

I've never thought it was a short jacket. To me the sleeves looks to be about 1-2 inches longer than the body of the jacket (when you wear it) and he has very long ones on it.
In the beginning of Raiders when they find the Hovitos arrow and the next sceene when they are walking in the jungle only Fords fingers are sticking out of the sleeve.

Also if you look at the new pictures of Indy from KotCS that surfaced yesterday you can see that the new jacket has monkey sleeves to but I think that jacket is a bit shorter... maybe because Ford wears his pants higher now...

// Labbas

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:55 am

I agree, the jacket is longer that many of us thought. Here's another classic example:

When I got my Wested back in the day, I thought that I made a mistake by adding a "long" to the order. But now, I realize that it was a good move:

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:07 am

That's the one to use Sebas.
That's the photo I used to get my jacket correct. I have a 6ft tall mannequin with 40 inch chest and my 42 Regular authentic lamb Wested matches the length in that photo EXACTLY.

Cheers,

Chris

Dre · Post by **Dre** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:10 am

Todd's jacket definetely needs to tune the length. The small jacket I bought fits nicely every other way except in length (at least in my opinion). Although, some people think my jacket is way too small but eh. I think even a medium would be too small.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:22 am

Is it possible to get a jacket from Todd's Costumes which is the exact same size and specs as the measurements _ provided?
If so, is that stunt jacket shorter than Ford's hero jacket or were they all the same?

I'm just curious about why these jackets from Todd's Costumes seem to be short - if they're replicas of the stunt jacket, I can only assume the stunt jacket was a different size compared to Ford's?

I wish the main site would hurry up and post _'s jacket history update. What's the delay on that guys???

Cheers,

Chris

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:46 am

Yeah, problem is just moments ago, it was shorter

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:52 am

Yeah, that's because he's got both hands in his pockets which raises his shoulders up and hence the jacket "appears" shorter.
Look at the previous pic - the jacket is shorter on the right side (his left) where he's got one hand in that pocket.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:55 am

OK here's a still that shows the length from the side

Not too long I guess, kinda like modern westeds?

and another one

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:04 am

In this one the holster is outside the jacket, pushing it up:

Also, this shot is with the zipper fastened. Obviously this effects the perceived length too.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:10 am

The thing is that no matter what I do, I can't make my wested look like the first two photos of the thread....

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:31 am

This is a 40L Wested:

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:58 am

Platon

Have Peter make you a detailed Raiders (like the one you had made a while back) in 42 reg with the Temple of Doom length. that should be perfect!

C3

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:55 am

"I 'm working on it, I'm working on it"

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:55 am

I'm not sure you guys are going to get to the bottom of this one....no one is the exact build as HF. Some people have longer torsos, shorter arms etc. The older pants and 30's style had a high waist. Most stuff you buy today has a lower rise, even if its not labeled as such. The only good indicator you can use is to judge where the jacket falls on the hip....just to or right on the widest point. Then apply the length that gets it to the same spot on your hip.

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:20 pm

I still feel that Ford is wearing the pants on his true waist. Remember that the past three films were set in the 1930's. As many of you know, pants were worn and tailored to be worn on the true waist. For those of you in the dark, this often known as the "high waist pants". A lot of people see old men wearing their pants high up. Obviously because they lived in an era where that's the way you wore your pants. If feel in the new film Ford is again wearing the pants on his true waist.

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:40 pm

I agree that Ford is now wearing his pants (or trousers as we call them

) in a period correct fashion- however in the previous films he just as surely was wearing them is a more modern just below the navel manner. That's why the new jacket looks to be so much longer.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:45 pm

I gotta disagree on the "high waisted" pants thing, I recently read a thread on this forum (was it archived, old thread?) that put that question to screen caps. There were plenty of pictures that show the pants were worn like modern ones. One in particular even gives a good view of Ford's belly button in relation to the waistband of his pants, in ToD when his shirt is off and Willie is about to be dunked in hot molten lava. He definately didn't wear them up high. My opinion for what it's worth is that the jacket was longer than most reproductions are now made. Just short of the sleeve length.

Doug C

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:12 pm

You can drive yourself nuts looking at too many screen caps. Take it from me take it from me take it from me me me.

The two picture is the house illustrate the point perfectly. The top picture shows Ford slightly hunched forward, left shoulder up, right shoulder down, and the jacket askew on his shoulders - look at the collar and see how the right side is sliding forward

Now in the second shot we see him standing straighter, shoulders more even, and the collar even - see the bottom of the jacket right and left are very even - don't worry about his hands - look at the length of the zipper which is unaffected.

My 40r pattern is _'s specs to the "T". However, since no one else has Ford's body (not that that's a bad thing - everyone is just unique) the best way to size them is to keep the body length relative to the sleeve. Either that, or have each one go to their favorite tailor for a personally designed jacket. It's hard to find good pics of Ford standing like a mannequin with his arms straight down to see what the proportions are.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:26 pm

Todd's right about the tailoring issue with regards to Raiders. That jacket fits him like a glove and depending on Ford’s pose, it created several optical illusions. None of the other jackets were that tailored. Alas, none of you will ever have such a “Raiders” (tailored) jacket ……(insert wicked laugh)……..(pause for effect)……so sorry.

I wouldn’t make so light of it except for the fact that I know lots of you guys (the insane ones) are losing sleep over it.

Castor Dioscuri · Post by **Castor Dioscuri** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:06 pm

I completely agree with Platon. In fact, I agree so much, that I even argued this point at length on another thread! viewtopic.php?t=22195&start=0

But still, I doubt you'll ever completely win this debate, since some folks just won't believe you no matter how much evidence you provide...

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:21 pm

Castor Dioscuri wrote:I completely agree with Platon. In fact, I agree so much, that I even argued this point at length on another thread! viewtopic.php?t=22195&start=0

But still, I doubt you'll ever completely win this debate, since some folks just won't believe you no matter how much evidence you provide...

Take a look at Todd’s thread with regards to optical illusions. Most of us (and our collective beer guts) just aren’t going to cut the same figure as Ford in an Indy jacket.

viewtopic.php?t=24850

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:15 pm

Here's a photo of my latest display.

This is a 6ft tall mannequin with 40 inch chest. I personally feel that it's very close to Ford's measurements.

Todd - I would like to buy a custom pre-washed, water distressed jacket from you with all the specs made to match the measurements from _. Since this would purely be for display on my mannequin, it doesn't need to have any of the changes made for better fit etc. It should be an exact copy. Can you do it?

Cheers,

Chris[/img]

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:33 pm

Chris,

I'd love to.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:34 am

Puppetboy wrote

Now in the second shot we see him standing straighter, shoulders more even, and the collar even - see the bottom of the jacket right and left are very even - don't worry about his hands - look at the length of the zipper which is unaffected.

Hey Puppetboy, what about the length of the zip in this pic?

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:41 am

Hey Chris King, compare the jacket on your mannequin to this

and let me know.

And please don't start that story that the photo is taken from a low angle and things like that because his shirt looks OK.

If you 're not convinced, try to photograph your mannequin from whatever angle you like.

Because I bet that even if you get Helmut Newton to photograph your jacket, it will never look this long.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:08 am

PLATON wrote: And please don't start that story that the photo is taken from a low angle and things like that because his shirt looks OK.

What exactly do you mean by that? To me his shirt looks like it is – at least partially – tucked into his trousers, which would of course mean that it doesn't look longer in this photo. Perhaps if his shirt was hanging out completely it too would look longer?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:17 am

Huh?!

My jacket looks LONGER than his jacket in the pic you posted PLATON.
Honestly, I'm not sure what you're trying to say?!

Cheers,

Chris

PLATON wrote:Hey Chris King, compare the jacket on your mannequin to this and let me know.

And please don't start that story that the photo is taken from a low angle and things like that because his shirt looks OK.

If you 're not convinced, try to photograph your mannequin from whatever angle you like.

Because I bet that even if you get Helmut Newton to photograph your jacket, it will never look this long.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:44 am

Chris, look at the length of the body compared to that of the sleeve, in your jacket, and then look at the same on the photo I posted and you will get the difference.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:48 am

The two below photos are scaled to the same size basis his nose to measure 7 mm.

The chin is aligned too, so no questions about height difference.

Look at the bottom of the jacket. A coincidence?

Now, excuse me but this jacket appears longer than many...

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 am

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... MG1226.jpg

Now this guy has it right. Chris King, see?

Arca Perdida · Post by **Arca Perdida** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:35 am

PLATON wrote:
Look at the bottom of the jacket.

I don't think that's a good example, even if you may be right. The way he's leaning in that pic, the front of the jacket is hanging down way too much. It's a perspective effect. Draw a line that touches the back of the jacket in the same shot. You don't think the front is really that much longer than the back, right?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:06 am

That guys jacket length and sleeve length looks almost identical to mine. Do you really think they're different? Look at the position of the belt line and the pockets, then look at the distance between the bottom of the jacket and the bottom of the sleeves - I don't see any difference.

That being said, I DO see that the photo of Ford has the jacket length closer to the length of the sleeves compared to mine or the other guys Wested.

Cheers,

Chris

PLATON wrote:http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t167 ... MG1226.jpg

Now this guy has it right. Chris King, see?

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:16 am

It's your right to believe what you like, but we can easily ask this guy to measure his and then compare with yours, if you like.

I can't convince you, but I guess you need a new strap buckle. AB make a good one....

Rabittooth · Post by **Rabittooth** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:29 am

PLATON wrote:

Yeah, problem is just moments ago, it was shorter

I think he's right here. These are 2 different jackets and the second does not just look shorter...it is shorter.

-Rabittooth

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:35 am

Yeah, and at some earlier thread agent5 has shown us that these are two different jackets because they had different pocket flaps. One was scalloped, other was not.

So I guess that we are going towards a conclusion that there were jackets with different length as well. (The jacket worn in the temple scene looks longer to me).

And the jacket he wears in the truck scene when he hanged in the front of the truvk seems shorter, but then again it's how he sits there....

My general view after watching the whole film is that the jacket was longer than e.g. Chris King's above.

Any ideas?

sebas · Post by **sebas** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:14 am

Platon, as I said earlier, I'm partial to the jacket being longer that previously thought. Here's another example.

Long again:

BUT.... If you look at this Raven bar fight still, the jacket appears SUPER short, given Harrison's posture :

But regarding the initial question: YES, the Raider's film jacket does appear to be longer than what many gearheads wear these days. Having said that, the jacket on Chris King's mannequin does appear to be a tad short. However, the belt line might have something to do with it...

Cheers,
Sebas

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:22 am

Your last photo is an action pose in which jacket is riding up on his shoulders as he moves. I don't think it is a good example.

Regarding Chris King's jacket, his jacket looks like the jacket on the right here, while when I say "long" I am talking about the jacket on the left.

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:22 am

PLATON,

Not seeing what you're seeing. Looks the same to me (mine's a 42 Regular, but the relationship between the belt line, bottom of jacket and sleeve length looks the same to me).

Thanks for your concern about my strap buckle. I'm happy to tell you that I've already got a much better one - just haven't got around to putting it on there yet.

By the way, my jacket is 5 INCHES below the belt line. I honestly don't think it should be any more than that.

Chris

PLATON wrote:It's your right to believe what you like, but we can easily ask this guy to measure his and then compare with yours, if you like.

I can't convince you, but I guess you need a new strap buckle. AB make a good one....

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:42 am

Well try this,

The first pic shows the measurement basis aligned belt. Again the other guys is longer, considering also that his collar is higher than yours

The second pic shows collars aligned. Result same. Again longer.

In both photos shoulder span is 9.3cm

You still can't see it?

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:51 am

This proves the point that you can't rely on photos for this sort of thing.
My jacket is hanging quite far back off the shoulders which naturally pulls the front of the jacket upwards.
Also, you can't use the collar as the point of alignment because how do you know the jackets are the same size? Mine is a 42 Regular. What's the other guy got? Chances of his body being the same length is pretty remote too.
Also ths slope of the shoulders on the mannequin is different so again, you can't make a true comparison.

The only thing I tried to show with my comparison is that the PROPORTIONS are the same. Belt line, bottom of jacket and sleeve length are all a match between the two jackets which means if they're a different size, Peter did the correct job by adjusting the patterns to maintain the same kinds of proportions.

Chris

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:57 am

By the way - you haven't scaled the photo of my mannequin correctly. It's smaller than it should be.

My comparison is more accurate based on the size of the pockets and pocket flap.

Do your lines exercise again but use my correctly scaled photo.

Chris

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:59 am

Chris, I got your point, but how do you feel about the below

brim span 2.6cm in both pics

Chris_King · Post by **Chris_King** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:08 am

My hat isn't the same size as Ford's - I had to get a larger one so that it would fit onto Howard S's resin Indy bust.

Here's your photo corrected with the correct scale.

Also, focal length, camera lens, height of camera off floor will ALL have DRAMATIC impact on what you perceive in pics. Take some photos of yourself from different heights, different distances from the camera and I think you'll be amazed with the difference that you see in the length of your own jacket.

Cheers,

Chris
[/img]

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:08 am

Chris you know that what you say isn't true.
You have enlarged your photo so that it has same length with the photo on the left.

This is apparent from the fact that on your enlarged photo the collar is higher. Notice the green line that connects the tops of the storm flaps. In the middle photo the top of the storm flap is much higher.

Also, if you post the entire jacket and not the half of it, you will see that you enlarged it so much that it will appear huge next to the jacket on the left. Do that and notice the shoulders span and width.

Of course, I am not trying to convince you.
I told you, the only way is to ask the guy on the left to measure his storm flap and then we put that against yours.

I hope he is watching....