Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Dalexs
................................................................................................................. 
. This probably rates up there with my Wire theory. ... Note on my hat, the stitching below the ribbon, below the grommet. This is a reinforcement, because there is a gap in the sweat attatchment stitches, where the chinstrap inserts between the crown and sweat. Note it's width, then look at the grove up the crown on the Raiders hat- 
how'z that crow tastin 3thou?3thoubucks wrote:...... Here's something that really freaks me out- I had posted that it was no Raiders hat, because I could see that it was originally BASHED WITH A TELESCOPING CROWN! .. 11 months later I noticed the same lines on the Raiders hat, then spent 1000 hours trying to convince you guys, but I never remembered this hat...
i wouldn't know as i've never been wrong about anything on this forum.....nope....not a thing...... 
Here's antiquity collector's "authentic HJ used in Raiders" , that has a chin strap. The line indicating a telescope crown passes across the front pinch about an inch from the peak. Indiana G wrote Well, few would believe this hat is the real deal . The ribbon is too wide. They changed the original liner just because HJ moved? But I notice it says HJ on the sweat, so I guess it is an HJ, and it does have a chin strap. My apologies to antiquity collector, but it seems I'm the only one who noticed or commented on the lines, so it looks like I proved myself wrong, which makes crow taste not so bad... more like turkeyhow'z that crow tastin 3thou?
. Again, the link to the thread about this hat viewtopic.php?t=6520&highlight=chin+strap 
What makes a Poet an "Australian model"? Perhaps one with chin strap grommets installed.
The telescope crown deal is still hard for me to believe. Mostly because the blockshape used for telescope crowned hats is NOT what we see in Radiers. A telescope crowned hat starts with a tall, pointy blockshape, so it can be creased down in the hat, with the pointy dome becoming the top of the hat. Think of the Croc Dundee hat. A very similiar block was used for the Maltese Falcon hat worn by Bogie. These blocks are made with the idea of using them to make particular creased hats, generally telescope crowns, teardrops and C-dents. Other blockshapes were used for hats intended to be worn open crown, like the derby, which is only one among many open crowned styles common in the late 1800s and early 1900s. If you own a Stetson Book, look in the back at the pics of the Stetson catalog, and you will see 50 hats, all open crowned, with each a little different from the others, but none came with the tall pointy dome used on later telescope crowns. Since the Raiders fedora did not have the tall pointy dome, it is not logical from a hatmakers perspective, to use a pointy dome for a homburg type crease. Oil and water here.The line indicating a telescope crown passes across the front pinch about an inch from the peak.
To get the lines I see on the Raiders hat, the block shape needs to be quite sovepipe. That way the felt folds back on it's self sharply. A pointy block would be less likely to leave lines, as the folds couldn't be as sharp. A telescoped AB, with it's minimum taper would be the Indy hat most likely to produce the lines! This is one reason I'm dieing to get a Rabbit generic AB when they become available ............ Here's an open crown Bushman with different bashes, including telescope. http://www.davidmorgan.com/popup_image. ... 4=1&tab5=1 ......... Chin strap on the KOTCS setA telescope crowned hat starts with a tall, pointy blockshape
http://weblogs.variety.com/photos/uncat ... ones_4.jpgThis Bushman is a very good argument for the theory that it may not have been a Fedora that was chosen by Deborah Nadoolman back then at the Herbert Johnson job.3thoubucks wrote:To get the lines I see on the Raiders hat, the block shape needs to be quite sovepipe. That way the felt folds back on it's self sharply. A pointy block would be less likely to leave lines, as the folds couldn't be as sharp. A telescoped AB, with it's minimum taper would be the Indy hat most likely to produce the lines! This is one reason I'm dieing to get a Rabbit generic AB when they become available ............ Here's an open crown Bushman with different bashes, including telescope. http://www.davidmorgan.com/popup_image. ... 4=1&tab5=1 ......... Chin strap on the KOTCS setA telescope crowned hat starts with a tall, pointy blockshapehttp://weblogs.variety.com/photos/uncat ... ones_4.jpg
To get the lines I see on the Raiders hat, the block shape needs to be quite sovepipe. That way the felt folds back on it's self sharply. A pointy block would be less likely to leave lines, as the folds couldn't be as sharp.
I think she had a vision of the Australian hat as being wider brimmed than traditional fedoras, and remember that that time, most fedoras she would have been used to were the 4 inch tall hats of the 60's and 70's, when the brims got short, and the crowns dropped in height. So, any wide brimmed, taller crown hat(taller than 4 inches) would appear to be too tall, with a wide brim.There's that confusing Nadoolman sentence "it was an Australian model".
I mean, did she consider a Fedora to be an Australian type of hat?
What do you think, Steve?
Maybe the ones underneath are not.- But maybe they are. We could be looking at stacks of pre-bashed hats here. .... What is that, some kind of white steam machine in front of Richard? This is the only pic of Swales I have ever seen. I got it from a French Indy site that dropped off the web. In the foreground there's a bowler, a top hat on it's side in front of somethig that looks fairly Indy, that Swales is shaping. They probably are stacks of pre-bashed hats.3thoubucks wrote:This proves nothing, but in this picture of Richard Swales in the shop, with stacks of hats, the short stack to the right of, and the one to the left of his head, the hats on top are bashed.
(completely disregard that jagged oval drawn on the hat) .... Look at the middle mark on the ribbon. It looks like there might be a hole in the felt under the ribbon. What if, once the hat was turned, they still needed a chin strap, and they made a hole in the hat, in the location the grommet used to be?... Also interesting here, is the pinpoint highlight on the rearward mark. Something a small, round, standout metal grommet would be more likely to produce.
Here it is on the inside, with the sweat folded out of the way. 
It was obvious the grommet on my hat was high compared to the Raiders hat. But I got a new Bushman, and the grommet is a half centimeter lower. 2 cm at the center vs. 2.5 cm.
