Club Obi Wan

I have been a Indiana Jones fan for a long time and have been a frequent visitor to Indygear.com in the past and now as the new movie is approaching I finally have saved up enough money to start buying some of the gear. Since I am new to this forum I don't know all there is about all the gear out there and I am looking for opinions on who makes the best Raiders hat out there right now. I was thinking about getting a HJ, but as I have read on the forum they are pretty much a hit or miss and just cannot get the hat to look like it did in the original films. Plus Mr. Swales is retired so they don't even have the original maker of the hat. There is also AB (AdventureBilt) and the hats look great from both Fedora and Marc. I just don't know if I should order an HJ or AdventureBilt, it would seem like the no brainer would be AB. Any help or opinons on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

IndianaChris

You could always get the Magnoli HJ which is the best of both worlds, an HJ that is blocked on Fedora's block. There is also the question of how fast do you want the hat? The Magnoli HJ wait time is not as long as the current AB wait time. Both are good looking hats and I'm sure you'd be happy with either.

I am looking for opinions on who makes the best Raiders hat out there right now.

Opinions? Here's mine, take it for what it's worth:

Marc Kitter - AB Deluxe

-GCR

The best, price no object? AB/AB Deluxe, or Magnoli HJ-- no question about it.

Jack

With either of those -- you really cannot choose poorly. They are great choices....Welcome to COW!

The top three, in no particular order, are the Magnoli AB-HJ, the AB, and the AB Deluxe. The Magnoli AB is the most screen accurate I think - being from the same manufacturer and having the right look, but the ABs by Marc and Steve are going to be higher quality, with Marc's being the highest.

The longest wait times would probably be, in order of shortest to longest, Magnoli, AB, AB-dlx - assuming the Magnolis are in stock.

There's your apples and oranges - pick your favorite fruit and dive in!

Welcome to the madness!
Shane

AB or AB delux, hands down.

Thanks guys on your opinions so far and for welcoming to the COW. I will look into Magnoli-HJ Fedora, but I think my first instinct is with AB. I don't really mind waiting for the hat, but I may consider getting an AB for now and a Magnoli-HJ sometime later. Is there any difference between the AB and the AB deluxe beside the deluxe having a bit more high quality material? I am probably leaning towards getting the AB that Steve makes, I would love to have an AB Deluxe from Marc, I'm just not sure paying around 500 bucks for a AB Deluxe is going to slow me down a bit on the rest of the gear. I could always ask for a AB-Deluxe for X-mas. Thanks for all your help guys, any more thoughts or opinions would be great.

IndianaChris

IndianaChris,
From what I've seen, Steve's AB is the best hat fro the money if you live in the U.S. Yes, Marc's Deluxe uses slightly better materials, but with all the extra $$$ from being "across the pond" and all - I don't see that wide of a difference between the two.

As for choosing the AB vs. the Magnoli HJ; ask yourself what you want in an Indy hat - A soft dress hat that's made of very screen accurate materials (the Magnoli HJ), or a hat that's a little stiffer, made of top quality materials, and known to be durable (the AB). Both are good hats, but as an investment and a practical hat, the AB wins!

IndianaChris711 wrote:Is there any difference between the AB and the AB deluxe beside the deluxe having a bit more high quality material?

I've personally owned two examples of each, so I can say that there is indeed a difference. The AB Deluxe uses different felt, different liners, different sweatbands, and a slightly different blockshape. The blockshape is probably the biggest difference, and one that should not be overlooked. Both hats will give you a great Raiders look, but depending on hat-size, face shape, and many other criteria, one might be a bit better suited to the Raiders style than the other. In my case, the AB's from Steve looked good sitting on a shelf, but didn't quite look right when they were actually on my head, whereas Marc's blockshape nailed the look 100%, both on and off my head.

The price of the AB Deluxe may indeed be hard for some folks to digest, but for me, personally, it has been worth every penny. I've worn both of my Deluxes extensively, many times in wet weather where they've been soaked and then allowed to dry right on my head. They've seen several instances of continuous wear for 8-10 hours a day, in 90+ degree heat and high humidity, and there has been no shrinkage to the roo-hide sweat and no taper, shrinkage or discoloration to the beaver felt. I've never owned a hat that fits so perfectly and has held up so well to this sort of wear and tear. Just as the tagline on the liner reads, these Deluxes are indeed "built to last".

-GCR

Marc's Raiders block and my old Raiders block and new Raiders block(CS block) are very similiar but just a little different too. His block is his "take" on the Raiders blockshape, and my blocks are my "take". But, they are more alike, than different.

I have noticed that Marc's hats look really, really good on folks who have full faces. But, there is a reason for this. He uses a round oval block, and I use a regular oval block. But his CS block is a regular oval, as that is what we used for the film. So he now has the ability to make round ovals and regular ovals Raider fedoras as well. I don't have that ability,as I do not own any round oval blocks. But most folks take a regular oval, or long oval. Alot of Oriental people have rounder heads, so the round ovals are really needed if you sell alot of hats to those fine folks.

I in turn, have long oval blocks along with my regular ovals. There are more long oval heads searching for hats, than round ovals, so it was a matter of economics with me when I first had my blocks made.

I just sent Marc a set of CS blocks, a couple of grand worth if you include the band blocks I had made for him. So, adding sets doesn't come cheap. I may eventually add a few in the common sizes, but until now, I have just adjusted the brim size on the sides to compensate for fuller faces. Of course, the best way to do that is to use a round oval blockshape, which is wider across the front.

Now, if you have a thin face, a round oval will look too wide for your face. It will look out of proportion. Gary White sold me a hat years ago, that apparently was made on a round oval block. It looked wider than my head, and I ended up reblocking it myself to get it trimmer looking, and thereby matching my face better.


Back during the time of Raiders, and even later, I was told that HJ did not offer but one blockshape. A regular oval. I heard, a couple of years ago, that they added a long oval, but I can't say for sure.


If you are looking for a Raiders fedora, that has the best match in color, blockshape and softness of the original HJ used for Raiders, go with the IMHJ. Qualitywise, it is a mid quality hat, once it is reworked and gets a good "set" on the blockshape to help stop fast taper. It won't last you a lifetime, but it will last you long enough.

If your eye is on the dollar, but want a high quality hat, made from the best fur to use for outdoor hats, the AB is the biggest bang for the buck. Pure beaver, roan sweats, and thinner liners, with a single gold Staff of Ra headpiece crest.

If you want to move up to the very top shelf, the AB Deluxe is the hat to buy. Marc's liners are thicker than mine, has a multicolor crest, where mine are just gold, and he uses kangaroo hide that he has tanned in Australia and then he sends it to his sweatband maker to make his roohide sweats from. We both use the same old HJ ribbon. His felt is also factory pounced, whereas mine are basically raw. So, his hats are pounced more than mine, because he pounces his additionally to the factory pounce. His hats are pure beaver as well, but we use different feltmakers, both of which have been in business since the early 20th century.

So, picking one of these three just depends upon what you are looking for in a hat, and how much you want to spend.

Personally, I am a hat snob. It it ain't pure beaver, I don't want it. But everyone is different. For me and Marc, give us beaver, or give us death. Well, not quite that drastic...... Fedora

Here here...and Feora....I will be ordering again form you....I'm addicted...Two so far, and at least one more...

Thanks for the input guys, especially Fedora. I am pretty sure I am going with an AB. I might just get an AB from you Steve for now and then one from Marc in the near future. I really like both of your hats.
IMHJ is a great screen accurate hat, I just want a hat that will be able to take some pretty good wear and tear as well over time. I think a regular oval is probably right for my head, but I am not sure. When you are saying rounder heads, you mean more shaped like a circle right? I think a regular oval is going to be fine for me, should I send you a picture of myself to see what you think just in case? Thanks again guys.

IndianaChris

Go with an AB. Whether an regular or dlx is up to you, but the AB is worth it. "Trust me".

And just to put in a shameless plug, my Raiders hat ain't exactly chopped liver.

No, Lee, it isn't.

Regards! Michaelson

Yep...here's some pics of my new Keppler:



-Rabittooth

MAN, I love those photos, Rab.

Oh, the hat's nice too!

Regards! Michaelson

That's a very nice hat!

nice shots rabbit! just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of the brim on the keppler fedora?

I'll jump in on that. Rab wanted the brim 1/8" under standard all around. Standard is 2 1/2" X2 3/4".

You want the best Raiders fedora? No doubt about it:

http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/HJ%20 ... fedora.htm

This is the hat.

come on dutch, he said 'raiders' hat, not the last crusade hat.

there is a token few who can pull a good raiders look out of the current blockshape. this is based on their bashing skills, size of hat, and shape of face......me not being one of them. i need a little extra help through the delk/magnoli connection.

Lee Keppler wrote:And just to put in a shameless plug, my Raiders hat ain't exactly chopped liver.

You make a darn fine LC as well, I get compliments all the time.

Rab - nice pix - your little one is not so little anymore!

Mike

Dutch_jones wrote:You want the best Raiders fedora? No doubt about it:

http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/HJ%20 ... fedora.htm

This is the hat.

*sigh*

This again...

I've gotta say, this whole debate is getting as old as the gray hat / brown hat argument...

Was the Raiders fedora an HJ? Yes. Is the CURRENT HJ in an UNMODIFIED STATE the BEST option for obtaining a Raiders look?

Um...as far as I'm concerned, that'd be a big fat NO, as I have YET to see ANY solid evidence to this effect. Tone did some fine work with a stock HJ, but in my opinion his results were not conclusive. I even seem to recall I told Tone that I thought his JPD looked better as a Raiders hat back when he first got the HJ and I stand by that. Heck, I think his HJ looks better now after the Jimmy Pierce reblock. But with the stock HJ block, it just didn't seem to cut it. Even the pictures of Todd's HJ on his site, while they look good for an HJ, don't look exactly like the Raiders hat.

But, the real truth is we may never know anything for sure. After all, this isn't the first time the theory has been proposed that the HJ block has been the same all along. It's been thrown out there time and time again throughout the history of this hobby. Do a search, read through some old posts, do a little RESEARCH.

Maybe the Raiders block was the same all along, and maybe it wasn't. Some folks look at the Raiders hat and see one thing, and some folks look at it and see something else. JUST like the gray hat / brown hat debate. And in the end, who is right and who is wrong? WE'LL NEVER KNOW...but you know what? I'm content with that, as I have found a RAIDERS hat that looks good on ME, and that's all I really care about anyway. If people want to try and "hype up" the HJ for whatever reason, good for them...I ain't buying one.

So anyways, Dirk, have you got an HJ that's bashed to look like the Raiders hat? If so, I'd love to see it.

-GCR

Yeah...I just want to point out that there's a lot of talk about crown height and brim width as it looks a certain people's heads / faces.
I'm one of those folks afflicted with the inability to look good in any standard Raiders hat.
Actually...I didn't request anything specific as far as measurements with Lee, but the man knows how to correct for this problem (one that I discussed at length with him over the phone). Aside from being able to make a Raiders hat look good on me and not like I'm doing an Abe Lincoln impression, I also really love the color of Lee's hats and the black ribbon.
Price...also a good thing. Wait time...also good. Plus...Lee's a gem...a real piece of bread as my gramma used to say.



-Rabittooth

Lee Keppler wrote:And just to put in a shameless plug, my Raiders hat ain't exactly chopped liver.

Actually, isn't it chopped... well, you know.

Lee Keppler wrote:Standard is 2 1/2" X2 3/4".

Fedora wrote:* * *For anyone who feels the brims are too wide on your ABs, I will trim them down for free, you just pay the postage. I have gravitated to mine being 2 1/2 on the sides. * * *

Size: 7 ¼ (size 58 European)
Crown: 5 ½ (5.5) inches
Brim (front & back): 2 ¾ (2.75) inches
Brim (sides): 2 5/8 (2.625) inches
Ribbon: 1 ½ (1.5) inches (39mm)
For more information or questions, please see the Fedora FAQ.

Is there a "move afoot" to a slightly narrower brim?

Sincerely,

2 1/2" X 2 3/4" is from a "reliable source".

Lee Keppler wrote:2 1/2" X 2 3/4" is from a "reliable source".

Yes, they were "TOP MEN". Thanks Lee.

Mike

Dutch_jones wrote:You want the best Raiders fedora? No doubt about it:

http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/HJ%20 ... fedora.htm

This is the hat.

Don't you believe it.

Does anyone have any info. on the HJ Poet from Todds Costumes? I haven't really seen much mentioned about them, but they are supposed to be a soft pliable felt and he has some different bashes to choose from. From what I saw they all looked really good.

Were I you, Gabrielle, I'd go for the Magnoli HJ. It's got the great brand name of Herbert Johnson, but it's felt has been stabilized and it's been reblocked and given some of the original ribbon by our own Fedora.

From what I've heard of the Todd's Costumes HJ, they look nice, but they can't stand up to any amount of punishment (no offense intended to Todd. All his other products are first-rate). :junior: -M