Club Obi Wan

Hey all this is my first post.... quick shout out to all of the regular contributors for offering so much good info to the whole board and esp. to newbies such as myself.

On to the jacket - I had originally ordered a Raiders authentic (ROLA) size 42 from Wested. I was disappointed to find out the next day they no longer had the size 42 in stock so I'd have to wait. Upon reading Indy Snipes' thread about Todd's jacket viewtopic.php?t=24165, and seeing how satisfied he (with his replacement), eazy, pitfall, ac, and others were, I decided to give Todd a shot. I called and spoke to Todd, ordered up a Medium, had it express shipped; and emailed Gemma (who was very friendly and helpful btw) to cancel my Wested order.

My jacket from Todd arrived this past Friday morning and holy cow was i psyched to open the box and try it on!

First impressions:
- The leather looks and feels awesome; I expected it to be very thin and light, as has been the subject of much discussion on this board, so that wasn't a surprise; and I don't actually own nor have ever actually seen a Wested or USWings or any other flavor of Indy jacket in person, so I didn't have much to compare it to other than the way heavy cowhide bomber and cycle jackets I have.
- the color looks great, hopefully it will wear similarly to some of the beautiful well worn Westeds i've seen on here, only time will tell
- it may be a little small on me, well more short than small... it feels ok across the chest, and is actually a little loose around the midsection (btw, anybody know if this is supposed to be the so-called "80s" cut, knowing that's a Wested term, but understanding that this one is all about screen accuracy and well, that was the cut in the movie... ?), anyway it's just short... i could prob use another inch or inch and a half (to 'the office' fans: "that's what she said") on both the sleeves and the overall length in the front and back... the sleeves are 23" from shoulder to cuff, i'll have to measure the front and rear again as i don't remember their dimensions off the top of my head

Upon closer examination:
- It's clearly not a top notch perfectly made garment by any stretch, nor did I expect it to be for $150. Based on the still high quality others have seen from Todd's standard jacket, however, I'm thinking I may have gotten one that was put together late on a Friday afternoon
- It still looks pretty good, and drapes real nice.
- I must preface this by saying that I am by no means a "screen accuracy" nazi; and maybe it's the engineer in me that causes my eyes to look for symmetry and form, suffice to say there are a few things that I really wish were better...

In the interest of a complete review I'm going to call out every little thing, some of it is nitpicking to be sure for a $150 jacket, but some of these things have me thinking I might send it back and either try for a replacement or just go for the Wested ROLA authentic (the "special offer" 80s cut one) or even a Wested custom.
Please forgive the crappy quality of my photos, it's a camera phone... if I can I'll update these when i get a chance to borrow my roommate's camera.

- Collar to storm flap attachment:

As you can see, not only does the collar stop short of halfway across the storm flap, it stops short of the entire storm flap. As Todd pointed out in another thread, it should be lined up directly above the zipper; in the case of my jacket it doesn't quite reach the zipper. As it is the resulting appearance of the collar is very assymetrical - the left side is always higher:


- Pockets:

Left pocket closeup - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 06bd86.jpg
The left pocket is noticeably twisted, with the bottom closer to the storm flap seam than the top; doesn't help that the storm flap seam itself is crooked as well Once I noticed it, it was difficult for my eyes not to be drawn to it. Of less concern is the fact that the snap in the right pocket is not centered very well.
Also, there's some stitching in the hand warmer lining that's falling out; I'll prob just trim this, and it's not a big deal; included for the sake of completeness - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 937848.jpg


- Chalk lines, chalk lines everywhere! Well, not everywhere. I know some others have seen this. As somebody who knows zilch about making/manufacturing clothing or jackets or anything such as this; is it common to see tailor's chalk lines, or are they indicative of a sewing mistake? I really don't know, maybe Todd or Peter or someone else in the know can chime in.
The lines visible under the rear pleats don't bother me so much as they're hidden.
Right pleat: - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 9909e9.jpg
Left pleat: - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 0a09ce.jpg

The line that goes most of the length of the left sleeve, however, is enough to drive me nuts. And I wonder if it's a symptom or the cause of the fact that sleeve doesn't quite lay/extend/feel the same as the right (see the left arm in second pic, full shot of jacket from the back):

full back view - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 2756cb.jpg

- The rear panel is not centered. I have not seen this on any of Todd's other jackets (like I said, i think mine was constructed late on a Friday )
Left side closeup - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 867bda.jpg
Right side closeup - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... cde5d4.jpg
It's only maybe 1/4" difference, but very noticeable when you look at a full view of the rear of the jacket -


- Minor length discrepancy, not really a big deal, but included for the sake of completeness:
left rear - 6" from seam

right rear - 6 1/4" from seam - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 2a2ae7.jpg

I didn't actually photograph the side adjustment straps, but one more nitpick: they aren't attached at the exact same spot, horizontally speaking, on either side.

PLEASE do not interpret this as an attack on Todd's standard jacket - like I said I think I may have just gotten a slightly bad example of one (and this review is very nitpicky); MANY others, who are also Wested owners, have been extremely please with the jackets Todd and co. have produced.

At this point I'm trying to decide if I should see about swapping mine out for another medium, moving up to a large (so tough to try stuff on over the internet, eh?); or possibly just dropping some $$ on a Wested. Thanks for reading!


(Moderator edit — welcome aboard! Since you're new here, you may want to read up on the rules, if you haven't already. viewtopic.php?t=21315 I just removed the image tags, so you can still click on them to view the pictures. I tried to select the best pictures to keep up.)

Welcome to COW, bobbyd!

I would try exchanging the jacket, as mine doesn't have any of those problems; you can get stitching and other imperfections even with custom jackets too, though.

I would also try getting a Large, as the sleeves and the overall length are slightly longer. If you are one of the taller fellows, though, you may need to get a custom to fit you property.

Personally, I'm waiting to see how much Tony Nowak's Indy 4 jacket will cost before I even consider getting another custom jacket; but I couldn't be happier with my Todd's Standard, so I may not have to do that anyway.

I hope this helps, and again, welcome!

Jack

i have a pre-wested 44r that fits perfectly.i got my $159.00(delivered) todds in xl, as he advised me to get instead of the large i had originally requested,via phone, a couple of weeks ago and it also fits perfectly. i can wear off the shelf luckily i guess. my collar is a little short of the mid point on the storm flap and the right sleeve lining is a bit too long, the collar rolls back nicely though and the lining pulls in with long sleeves(i can probably put a little tape on the inside of the sleeve and create a kind of semi-permanent pleat) so; i will gladly keep it and try to get my digicam photos dumped and a comparison posted. if you feel yours is too short; give 'em a call. todd's always been most accommodating with me. one word of caution; the leather is so soft and light-weight, that thorns will snag it pretty badly. i've been wearing mine in the field and have a few, good little v-shaped scratches. they're not all the way thru but it is possible that wild rose bushes or larger saw-briers could go all the way thru. regards,hanson.

Just wondering if anyone has ever done a side by side comparison of Todd's standard jacket to one of the Wested "ROLA" authentic special offer jackets (http://www.ekmpowershop4.com/ekmps/shop ... n-70-p.asp)... ?

In terms of "features" they seem to be identical with the exception of the fact that Wested's ROLA has D-rings on the side adjustment straps vs. a rectangular slider on Todd's. Wested's site doesn't indicate what type of lining is in there, that may be different as well. (And don't forget the obvious difference, $150+$10 shipping vs $255+$40 shipping).
Is the leather itself dramatically different? Is the Wested heavier, more "leather jacketish" perhaps? Do they feel different? Is the Wested somehow constructed better? While we're at it, is this special offer Wested ROLA different, in terms of quality and materials, from the slightly more expensive custom made jackets they offer.

In terms of size, some, including myself, have commented that their Todd's jacket feels just a little bit short. I know the sleeves on my Medium are 23" from shoulder to cuff, the storm flap is 22", and the back is 24" (not including the collar). These are a little shy of the figures for a comparably sized (assuming a 40-42 chest) Wested. According to the dimensions given here
http://www.indyjacket.co.uk/frsizing.html for Wested's "standard" patterns, we see back lengths of 25" and 25.25" and sleeve lengths of 24.25" and 24.75" for the 40R and 42R, respectively. Even the 38R has a sleeve length of 24". What I'm unable to determine is whether or not Todd's has the so-called 80s cut of the ROLA, in terms of the tapered body and arms. I would think so, but obviously I'm not certain.

Decisions, decisions....

oh and btw eazy - we're neighbors! check the location

I think essentially the true measure of whether an Indy jacket is a keeper or not is in seeing it on the person - so how about a picture or two of you wearing it.. because personally (and I know I'm in the minority on this) I think some of those inconsistancies actually contribute to a jacket's character and IMO this jacket doesn't need to be perfect in every last detail. Just my .02

Doug C

Holy COW! I didn't notice that before. Howdy, neighbor!

I've never handled a ROLA authentic, so I can't help you there. I have heard some people say the color is too "reddish," but that's all I know. It does seem like the dimensions would suit you better, though...

Jack

I'm right around the corner in West Chester, gents. We've got to get together in person to compare some of these jackets.

I've got a FS goat and would love to do some comparisons. I'm considering a Todd's Standard.

Regards,
-Jonesing

eazybox wrote:Holy COW! I didn't notice that before. Howdy, neighbor!

I've never handled a ROLA authentic, so I can't help you there. I have heard some people say the color is too "reddish," but that's all I know. It does seem like the dimensions would suit you better, though...

Jack

The Rola authentic is pretty much "authentic brown" in colour, it is perhaps a shade lighter/yellower but a close match. It is also slightly lighter in weight than standard Wested lambskin but not to a huge degree.

It is cut slightly longer in the body and arms than a standard otr Wested so I can't wear one to show you. People who usually wear "longs" will likely appreciate this!

bobbyd,

these standard jackets are really hot and cold. i must admit that when i saw all the flaws that you pointed out, i ran back to see if mine had any. lucky for me there are none.

you did a great job in your review btw. i'm sure todd will take it back if you want to trade it for one that actually has got some QC on it. i must admit that the one todd picked for me is perfect.

welcome to cow!

Indiana_Jonesing wrote:I'm right around the corner in West Chester, gents. We've got to get together in person to compare some of these jackets.

I've got a FS goat and would love to do some comparisons. I'm considering a Todd's Standard.

Regards,
-Jonesing

Wow large contingent of Indy fans in Chester County, PA it seems! haha good stuff... i think beers and a jacket comparison are in order

Here's a shot of me in my jacket... again, it's on a crappy camera phone; and i didn't bust out all of my indy gear for the photo op - http://www.t-mobilepictures.com/photos/ ... 7ddf65.jpg

Looks fine to me except for the sleeves, bobbyd; maybe 1/2" longer on the Large would be just about right, provided the rest of the fit isn't too loose.

It is good to see there are a few Chesco members here!

Jack

You could also have it both ways, if you prefer-- exchange your jacket first (at Todd's expense) and if that doesn't work, then try the ROLA or a cust

Jack

Bobbyd,

thanks for taking the time to write this detailed review! And thank you for posting a picture of you WEARING the jacket, since the bottom line is not measurements, but how it looks on you. I gotta say, the jacket looks great on you! You may want to try a "L" as it does look a little snug.

Let me take this opportunity to respond to some recurring comments/criticisms.

1. "80's" cut. This applies to WESTED ONLY. This term was coined by people trying to find the magic words that would get them the jacket they wanted. The dimensions for my jacket were taken DIRECTLY from the screen-used stunt jacket measurements provided graciously by _. The same measurements FS used to create the Expedition. The measurements were used for the cut of the jackets - the visible details were adjusted to match the hero jacket. My "cut" is the screen-used Raiders cut, PERIOD. I apologize in advance if it doesn't measure up with the popular concept about how tight or loose it should be. It is screen accurate - for better or worse.

2. Length: I'm getting a lot of these returned because they are "too short". I am going to have some longer ones made since this is a problem. I'm not sure if people just don't like the roomier SA cut and would prefer them tight and long, or if you guys are all extra thin and tall. But please let me remind you I HAVE PUBLISHED THE ACTUAL DIMENSIONS OF THE JACKET FOR ALL SIZES. PLEASE MEASURE YOURSELF AND YOU WILL KNOW EXACLTY HOW LONG IT WILL BE. That should prevent most returns.

3. No knock on the guys who take a ruler to these jackets, but I'd wager that these small irregularities appear in most of the clothes you wear. I know that this forum is filled with Wested owners finding the same kinds of irregularities on their custom made jackets. It's part of sewing leather garments - leather is different than other textiles. It's the skin of an animal, and its sewing and cutting characteristics can be wildly random, even on the same hide.

4. Some of the "irregularities" I've seen photographed are simply wrinkles and creases set in from the jackets being stacked on top of each other. They can be persistent at first, but will eventually fall out.

5. "Chalk" lines. Don't worry - they will rub off. Their presence does not indicate a defect.

My desire was to provide you guys with the best jacket for the money. Please judge them on that basis.

Todd

PS: bobbyd, you have a "super SA" jacket there. The Raiders hero jacket had an off-center back panel!

Puppetboy wrote: PS: bobbyd, you have a "super SA" jacket there. The Raiders hero jacket had an off-center back panel!

haha I just KNEW you were gonna say that!

i think i'm gonna go for the Large and just cinch those side straps nice and tight (or stop working out and eat more!)

I just wanted to post a comparison of two pics to highlight that the screen used jacket was loose. This may suggest that you need the L as Todd said.



http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/030.jpg

and obviously the collar needs a little work. Yeah, it has nothing to do with the 1st pic.

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/032.jpg


Todd, my finances are so bad these days that perhaps I shoud cut back on eating, but if you can guarantee that you will send me a jacket with SA scalloped pockets and collar meeting the storm flap midway, I'll order a standard jacket right now.

PS: sorry for the large pics, can't resize.

Platon,

Did you notice the lining in those two pics? It doesn't look cotton to me. If you watch it in real time, it looks shiny, like the "stars" pic.

As for the pocket flaps, perhaps the next run will be more to your liking. For this run, what you see is what you get. The pocket flap is very difficult to get just right. Things change in the cutting, sewing, and turning. BUT compensating on the pattern is very hard - every change is magnified when it's done.

Oh, yes, one more note: (I hate to say this because I can just imagine the groans from all over the planet as millions of jacket owners realize this for the first time) The collar is off center. Yes, it's rotated counterclockwise about 3/4". This is because the STORM FLAP is the center of the jacket, not the zipper. The zipper is off center 3/4" to the left. Extending the collar past the zipper on the storm flap helps minimize the appearance, but that's only a cheat since it actually creates an overlapping collar that couldn't zip (if the zipper went all the way to the top). Check the screen caps. See it now?

Oh, and there's no Santa Claus.

Sleep tight!

Todd

Here is the 1980's pre wested circa jacket size 44r. (first two pictures)





And here's the Todd's $159 Size XL(third and fourth pictures)






Regards,
hanson

You just sold me on the Todd's jacket. Now if I could only get a job..........

Btw, forgive me for being a noob, but what does it mean when you guys say the collar meeting the storm flap halfway? I see it everywhere but have no clue what it means.

the colar mates to the body of the jacket at the stormflap. wested predominantly ends the colar at the start of the storm flap (the flap that covers the zipper). SA junkies like myself want the colar extended to the halfway mark of the flap so that it is just like the movie jacket.....like this:

Oh. Does that give the collar that oversized look you often see?

nope. but it is how the hero jacket was made. it is very difficult to notice if a jacket does or doesn't have this feature unless you were specifically looking for it and more obvious if the jacket is fully zipped to the top.

i think the "oversized look" that you talk about is the LC colar. much longer in the points of the colar and drapes lower than the standard raiders colar. wested has only recently managed to nail this look IMO. their previoius offering in regards to an LC colar looked to be just a thicker colar in width but not length.

Oh, no, I mean how the collar hangs down really low below the collar of his shirt in most shots of Raiders. I've tried to emulate the look with my Wested and can't get it anywhere close.

Puppetboy wrote :

2. Length: I'm getting a lot of these returned because they are "too short". I am going to have some longer ones made since this is a problem.

Todd - When do you think someone could get one of these longer ones, or are they already available..I'm on the fence.

bobbyd - Did you ever send that Medium back and get a Large? I'm interested in seeing a picture of you wearing the Large so I could compare it to the other one.

Doug C

Risu wrote:Oh, no, I mean how the collar hangs down really low below the collar of his shirt in most shots of Raiders. I've tried to emulate the look with my Wested and can't get it anywhere close.

this look has got a gajillion variables tagged on to it. having the jacket collar hang lower than your shirt collar depends on:

1. size of shirt
2. size of jacket
3. size of jacket chest in relation to your actual chest
4. stiffness of leather
5. construction of the colar
6. jacket lining (some may disagree on this but i believe ford's collar was all over the place because the jacket moved around so much on his shoulders via a very low friction lining against his cotton shirt

to answer your question.....no....the colar meeting the stormflap halfway has little to do with this look. my raiders wested colar sits lower on my neck than my magnoli shirt....but not as SA as my standard todd's jacket. i was discussing this with todd in regards to having a longer colar built in my next jacket just to make it extra "sloppy" looking like you see in some scenes. he recommended against that as perhaps the issue is not in the colar itself as platon pointed out on numerous screen caps.....it may be in regards to how the jacket is sitting on the shoulders (ie size of jacket on the width/depth of ford's shoulders).

Doug C wrote:
bobbyd - Did you ever send that Medium back and get a Large? I'm interested in seeing a picture of you wearing the Large so I could compare it to the other one.

Doug C

DC - haven't had a chance to get to the post office yet, prob will send back the medium tomorrow... i'm still actually on the fence myself whether to exchange this for a large or just return it for a refund... don't get me wrong, it's a pretty sharp jacket (aside from all of the "personality" mine had)... but Todd's Large will give me an extra couple of inches around the waist, where I already had room to spare with the M, and only another 1/2" at the arms and overall length, where i really could use another 1 1/2"... i'm thinking with the colder weather coming in (southeastern PA) i may just return my M for a refund and go for a heavier custom wested with the slightly trimmer 80s cut... of course i've never even handled a wested so i don't really know how much heavier/thicker they are or can be given the hide choices (anybody with any insight on the subject, please chime in!)...
-bd

Ah I see, I'm 5'/10.5" tall, 180lbs with athletic arms (apparently longer than post ) I've had too many jackets that expose my wrists more than I think they should - so I'm trying to save myself that again. As for as Westeds go, I've had several now and they are generally pretty good quality but are hit or miss regarding specs. Just realize that none of these leather jackets are going to be warm, but my guess it that cow or horse would "feel" warmer than the usual thin Lambskin (Wested does have this in a thicker hide too though, as you probably know) and if you're going for warmth then go with and all cotton lineing...or source a flannel and send it in.

Doug C

here's my honest opinion which i may get flogged for so i'm making some sandwiches and a thermos of coffee for my stint under the plymouth.

todd makes the best RAIDERS jacket as far as the cut, drape, and SA specs. this is his custom jacket of course. wested comes extremely close if they get all of the modifications done to their standard offerings. but their pattern is extremely LC in look and feel. i'd say todd wins because the patterns he uses have direct pedigree to a raiders screen jacket (via _'s data). his jacket also feels like a raiders jacket when you got it on. from my experience with one of todd's earlier lamb offerings as well as his current standard offering, i would have to give wested the prize for having the most 'real world' jacket as todd comes up short on producing a practical jacket. but since i have an order into todd to see what his jacket project has evolved into, i may be (and probably will be) eating crow on this statement in about a month.

wested makes the ideal LC jacket. no matter if you get the standard or the 80's cut, the jacket is being modified from LC patterns....only on an 80's fit wested that is a size smaller do i notice the difference in the cut between an 80's fit 44 and a standard 44, and both of them still feel very LC'ish to me (not so much raiders-ish). the wested that i have that is a size smaller feels like a TOD jacket (which is what it was made to emulate) as there is not enough room in it to give the nice raiders look/wrinkles that the movie jacket had.

this could be all a result of how my frame measures up and maybe different for other people (ie - whiskeyman's hh wested looks very raiders in the pics he just posted), but i'm just commenting on what works for me. take it for what its worth

I think the jacket is supposed to be a little short, more like a motorcycle jacket. Only reason I say that is because the arms and waste fit more than perfectly on me, yet the jacket doesn't go much further below my belt. I have really enjoyed my jacket, but I'll warn anybody, if your a perfectionist you might want to look else where. Todd's design is great but the people putting these together don't appear to be taking their time and being very extra careful. My replacement jacket is great but there were marks, cuts and stitching holes in some areas where it looks like they rushed. Now this wasn't the case on the first one I bought, but the measurements where off.

I'm not trying to put the jacket down, for $150 it's a great deal and an awesome 1st jacket or a great everyday jacket for someone who doesn't want to screw up an expensive one. Basically the issues I have with my replacement are only noticeable to me upon scrutiny, I think I little more time and carefulness by those putting these together would fix that. But that aside it feels great and looks great, and for the price I don't think you'll find a better looking Indy jacket.

Doug C wrote:Ah I see, I'm 5'/10.5" tall, 180lbs with athletic arms (apparently longer than most ) I've had too many jackets that expose my wrists more than I think they should - so I'm trying to save myself that again.
Doug C

DC - I can tell you that you def don't want a medium. We're close to the same size (I'm 5'10", 165 lbs, 41" chest, 32" waist) and I also have "athletic" arms (read: i'm no 'roided up body builder, but I work out on a regular basis) and the arms on the medium were a bit tight in the bicep/tricep area (the large would prob be perfect in that regard). As for sleeve length - the sleeves on the M are short on me, and I'd say I have average length arms. I (think I) noted above that the length of the sleeves from shoulder to cuff on a medium is 23". This is about 1.25" shorter than what you'd see on a 40R Wested and 1.75" shorter than sleeves on a 42R. Todd's large only gives another 1/2" more sleeve length than the medium, so I have my doubts as to whether that'd be enough. Hope this helps!
-bd

I've been thinking about getting a Todd's standard jacket for use in the field (I'm a palaeontologist), where I'd be more inclined to get it roughed up than my lambskin Wested. Would the Todd's fall apart in no time, or would it hold up pretty well?

Ozraptor, I don't think anyone will really be able to answer that as this offering is still way too new, though some may have their opinion and will proably weigh in. But I wouldn't be afraid to use any of these jackets in the field, I'm saying don't baby that Wested lambskin - use it, they can take it (again some may disagree) I've had several though. Besides that's just the kind of thing that gives these jackets character.. and hey if it gets a small tear here or there, have it sewn up and keep wearing it. I think in the end you'll look back on it with more sintemintallity than the one you left in your closet all Pecarded up. JMHO.

Doug C