Club Obi Wan

hi everyone! i am new of the forum though i have read your interesting discussions about the indy jackets. i am from italy and of course i love indy. i have decided to order an us wing goatskin signature and i ask your help about the size. i choose us wings because i want goaskin and wested does not do more. i am 6 feet and 3 tall and about 187 pound of weight (190cm and 85 kg). i read many discussion about the strange sizes from us wings i have made my idea: i think that a large should fit me. what do you think about it? then in the us wings site i can choose between regular jacket and long jacket; is there someone who can tell me the difference? thank you for your kindness

Welcome, bodie! Yes, US Wings has a reputation around here regarding their inconsistent sizing. I generally wear something akin to a medium jacket, and it took me several tries until I got a G-2 jacket that fit me right, and it was labeled an extra-small! It wasn't a signature series jacket, though, so I can't say if the sizing is any better on those jackets or not.

The best advice I can give you (from my personal experience) is to take your measurements, or measure a jacket that fits you, and record chest, sleeves, shoulders, jacket length, etc. After you have those measurements, contact US Wings regarding the jacket you want and have them take measurements straight off the jacket they have in stock (don't necessarily go by their small/medium/large tags). Compare their measurements to yours. If the measurements line up, ask them to send you that very jacket. That's what I finally did to get the G-2 that fit me, even though the tag reads extra-small on mine. Good luck!

thank you for your advice. in fact i have read all your adventures to arrive to a right size. the problem for me is that the shipping costs to europe are very high and so to take the wrong size would be a very expensive error. every more advice is welcome. thank you again.

Glad to share my advice, bodie. The shipping to Europe is reason enough to make sure you get the size correct the first time. If you e-mail info@uswings.com and tell them your concerns and ask them to physically measure a signature series goatskin Indy jacket, I'm sure they will be helpful. It may take a day or two for you to receive a response to your questions, but it will be worth the research before placing your order.

I can't add any more advice that what bink has already given. He's dead on target.

I have found the 'Signature Series' to be more on the mark size wise than any of the other offerings, but that's just been my experience with the product.

Do exactly what bink suggested. If they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

Regards! Michaelson

thank you again. i will absolutely go with your advice. thank you all

I had some issues getting i) An order in from europe and ii) sizing. I won't go into it as it sounds like grouching, I think my account is in the "US Wings Sizing" thread.

For the same price you could look into G&B or give Wested email and save yourself some money, they have some goatskins left. Check your PMs.

i know templar, you're right. but i already asked to wested and between the goatskins left they have not my size . i already write to us wings following advices from michaelson and bink. now i wait what they answer...and in the meantime i will buy a wested denim jacket!

bodie64 wrote:i know templar, you're right. but i already asked to wested and between the goatskins left they have not my size . i already write to us wings following advices from michaelson and bink. now i wait what they answer...and in the meantime i will buy a wested denim jacket!

Cool, just be aware that Wings will want to charge you US$160 for shipping and will not take paypal or credit cards for International orders, you will have to use Western Union to wire them the money.

I thought a medium would fit 'cause the size chart suggestide a medium, but I thought wrong. I should've bought a size small.

Also keep in mind that bink and I only advised regarding your question on sizing, not choice of product.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:Also keep in mind that bink and I only advised regarding your question on sizing, not choice of product.

Regards! Michaelson

What he said.

hi. us wings has already answered suggesting a long large so i think i will go to this one. answering to michaelson and bink about the choice of the jacket i know that us wings jacket maybe is not the better jacket and honestly my first choice was for wested. simply i don't want to buy lambskin, i love too much lambs to wear something from their skin. and it is why i will so happy to buy a wested denim jacket.

If they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

Not always, thats for sure.

When I got my US Wings Indy, I e-mailed them my measurements,
and they said I was a size large according to their own sizing charts.
I even asked them that I wanted as close to a military fit as they could
get me, and they still said large.

I even asked for the actual garment measurements from their size
medium and large BEFORE I placed my order so I could compare those
to jackets I already had, and fit me well, so I could make sure
I got the right size the first time. The girl on the phone had no clue
as to what those measurements were, nor could she tell me who I
could talk to to get that info. Not even Sarge himself knew what they
were, so I was stuck going on what they recommened.

So, I got the large as THEY suggested. Guess what? Its VERY big on
me, and its not even close to a military, closer to the body fit. It was HUGE!

I normally wear a size 44 suit jacket, I am 6'1" tall, and I weigh 190
pounds, and the large is big on me.

Maybe they have gotten better with knowing who/where/how to find the
actual garment measurements of their own products, so I would ask for
that BEFORE you place your order, so you can compare those measurements
to a jacket you already own, and see if its right for you. Wested does
this, and it makes for a perfect fit every time.

Flathead

You misunderstood my statement, Flathead.

If you give them a set of measurements, and the jacket shipped to you matches those supplied specificifications, the dots connect. I'm not TALKING about a vendor taking your measurements, then rounding up or down to the nearest inch.

If you supplied them your exact measurements, and the jacket received didn't MATCH those measurements, then they DIDN'T match your supplied specifications, now did they? Therefore, it WON'T fit.

Regards! Michaelson

FLATHEAD wrote:
I even asked for the actual garment measurements from their size
medium and large BEFORE I placed my order so I could compare those
to jackets I already had, and fit me well, so I could make sure
I got the right size the first time. The girl on the phone had no clue
as to what those measurements were, nor could she tell me who I
could talk to to get that info. Not even Sarge himself knew what they
were, so I was stuck going on what they recommened.

That's why I had them physically take the jacket off the rack and measure it up right there while I waited on the phone. They have jackets in their store, and tape measures, too. That's how I finally came to getting a jacket that fit me correctly. Again, their signature series jackets may be different (since mine was from a clearance sale) but I have no way of knowing. I do know, however, that they were able to measure an actual jacket for me, instead of trying to figure it out by looking at a computer screen.

You misunderstood my statement, Flathead.

If you give them a set of measurements, and the jacket shipped to you matches those supplied specificifications, the dots connect. I'm not TALKING about a vendor taking your measurements, then rounding up or down to the nearest inch.

If you supplied them your exact measurements, and the jacket received didn't MATCH those measurements, then they DIDN'T match your supplied specifications, now did they? Therefore, it WON'T fit

No, I understand what you and bink said perfectly.

I supplied them with MY actual body measurements, just like you and
bink are suggesting.

With this info, and the fact that I wanted a more military type fit, not
a loose baggy fit, THEY should have known what size would have
fit me best right? I mean, if they actually do make their own jackets,
and make them for the actual MILITARY like they say, then I would hope
someone there would know what the difference was between an actual
military fit and a loose baggy fit. Here is a quote from their website about
finding your correct size:

Genuine government-issue A-2s and G-1s are Military fit jackets. For looser fit, order one size larger.
• All jackets are unisex sized. Use chart above for conversion.
• When ordering, please send us your height, weight, and gender to assist us in sending you the correct size.

If they know that a military fit is a closer to the body fit, and they had
MY actual body measurements, then they SHOULD know what size would
give a military fit, and what size would give me a loose fit right?

So, its not too out of this world that they would know what the garment
measurements are right? Every other manufacture of clothing can tell
you what the actual garment measurements are. Heck, even places
like LL Bean and Lands End can tell you right over the phone what these
measurements are, and they don't even MAKE the stuff! They have access
to all this right there at their finger tips.

So again, as YOU just stated:

If you
supplied them your exact measurements, and the jacket received didn't MATCH those measurements, then they DIDN'T match your supplied specifications, now did they? Therefore, it WON'T fit

Correct, THEY did not send me a jacket that fit. You are correct there.
So, in other words, they, who claim to make jackets for the military, did
not know what size to send me in order for me to get the fit I wanted,
even though they had my bodies measurements like they asked, and
the fact that I asked for a military fit, not a loose fit, as they also
mention on their own website.

How much more info would they, or could they need, than the very
information that they themselves asked me for?

As in binks case, he had to go around and around in order to get a jacket
that fit right, just because they had no idea what their own products
specifications are.

Flathead

FLATHEAD wrote: No, I understand what you and bink said perfectly.

I supplied them with MY actual body measurements, just like you and
bink are suggesting.

Actually, I should clarify, because when I finally called them to have them measure their own jacket, I didn't tell them my sets of measurements at all. The first time I ordered, I told Wings I wore a size 40 and they tried to sell me a large. I said I'd go for the medium, which ended up being absolutely huge on me. After exchanging it for a small, which was also way too big, THEN I called them the one last time.

By then, I had taken measurements off of three different jackets of mine and made a little chart for reference. When I asked US Wings to physically measure their extra small, I asked them what their given measurements were for length, sleeve, chest, etc., and compared them to the chart I sketched up. However, I never told Wings what my series of measurements were in order to ensure they wouldn't just quote the same numbers back to me. When I compared their measurements to mine, I was satisfied enough that I had them send me the very same jacket they just measured from just in case their sizes were inconsistent from one extra-small to another. By that point, I was weary of how US Wings was trying to fit jackets to body types, so I figured the best way to figure it out was to have them give me their measurements, and not the other way around.

On a side note, though I am generally pleased with my US Wings G-2, even the extra small could be a bit smaller in order to fit my 38-40 frame correctly. Keep in mind, too, that not everyone had the same experience as me. Others got jackets which fit them perfectly, which goes to show how wonky their sizes really are.

Well, in regards to my simple statement, an awful lot of hay is being made over absolutely nothing.

Like I said, I could care less what jacket is ordered. I simply stated, if you order an item and supply exact specs, and when the item arrives with those exact specifications met, it will fit. End of thought.
Nothing more meant than that.

I'm talking about Wings, Wested, G&B, Sears, J.C. Penny, Dillards, Wal-Mart.....

Sorry so blunt. It's been a lousy day here at work so far, but honestly, I didn't intend my statement to be read as being anymore than what it said.

Michaelson

its quite tough to buy a good fitting jacket these days unless you actually bite the bullet and pay the shipping back and forth for a "try on" jacket. this is the case for me when i purchased a us authentic indy jacket. i was a little apprehensive of just getting them to take their large model and customize it for me without first having to try it on.

this may be a different scenario if you are strictly buying off the rack but i also went down this road with flightsuits. i gave them my chest measaurements and they suggested i get something silly like a 48 R which would go great with my WPG shirt as i would have great gear to plop down, stick a branch in my clothes and go to sleep under them for a night. i didn't trust them eyeballing my size which is why i didn't purchase an expo....but perhaps in the future i will.

michaelson, let me buy you a coffee and we can sit and chew the fat for a while i know those days where everything goes wrong and it doesn't seem like you've made a difference......i've been there ALL this month and it will get better. i'm sure the plymouth can serve as a hideaway not just for our community but from your place of employment as well come on under, i got a fresh pot on.

Well, in regards to my simple statement, an awful lot of hay is being made over absolutely nothing.

Like I said, I could care less what jacket is ordered. I simply stated, if you order an item and supply exact specs, and when the item arrives with those exact specifications met, it will fit. End of thought.

Tell the guy who has to send the jackets back several times, and has
to pay the accompanying shipping charges, that its nothing, and I bet
he will not agree with that statement. Especially when its not his fault, but
the fault of the vendor because they do not know enough of the specs
of their own products that they themselves claim to make, to ensure the
customer recieves the correct fitting jacket.

I am just clarifying my side, as you stated it was me who misunderstood
what you said, which I did not.

I sent them the info they asked for, according to their own criteria,
and they still could not send me, and others here, a jacket that fit
as it should. I sent them my "exact specs" and they still got it wrong.

If someone is told to send "exact specs" and

If they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

and
it doesn't fit, whose fault is it that the vendor does not know enough
about their products to ensure a proper fit? Its certaintly not mine,
as I did exactly as they asked. And now, I have to spend even more
money out of my own pocket because of their mistake? Why?

And god forbid, what about the people who live outside of the United
States, who have to pay over $100.00 for shipping? These poor people
would be out alot of cash because of the lack of knowledge on behalf
of a company who does not know enough about their own products to
give the correct answers to simple questions.

Thats my only point here. Do not go by what they tell you. Make
sure you have ALL the info you can before your purchase so you can
get a good fitting jacket.

Like the old carpenters rule says, "Measure twice, cut once".

Flathead

Flathead, I don't see why you're blaming Michaelson for someone else's error. What he said was this:

I simply stated, if you order an item and supply exact specs, and when the item arrives with those exact specifications met, it will fit.

Which means that if you send them a measurement for a sleeve length of 23" and the sleeve arrives with a measurement of 23", then it will fit. He didn't say that if you order a 23" sleeve and it comes back a 25" sleeve it will fit. Michaelson simply stated that if you give them measurements and if they provide a garment with those measurements, the garment should be perfect. Period. He never said that any given manufacturer will be 100% perfect, or that any given jacket maker will send you something the right or wrong size. He just made a simple statement that was never meant to cause such a stir. I think you're over-anylizing it a bit.

Thank you bink! That's EXACTLY what I said... that's ALL that I said... and said quite clearly, if I may add.

Don't make things so complicated, Flathead, and please don't put words in my mouth nor twist what my plain and simple statement said. It's not appreciated nor called for.

Michaelson

Besides, that's my job.

Yeah, what Jess said.

Huh?

Regards! Michaelson

Just give 'im a HoHo instead, Jess.

Which means that if you send them a measurement for a sleeve length of 23" and the sleeve arrives with a measurement of 23", then it will fit. He didn't say that if you order a 23" sleeve and it comes back a 25" sleeve it will fit. Michaelson simply stated that if you give them measurements and if they provide a garment with those measurements, the garment should be perfect. Period. He never said that any given manufacturer will be 100% perfect, or that any given jacket maker will send you something the right or wrong size. He just made a simple statement that was never meant to cause such a stir. I think you're over-anylizing it a bit.

Thank you bink! That's EXACTLY what I said... that's ALL that I said... and said quite clearly, if I may add.

Don't make things so complicated, Flathead, and please don't put words in my mouth nor twist what my plain and simple statement said. It's not appreciated nor called for.

Oh my, can you guys actually read or what? Show me one single place
in any of Michaelsons quotes that he states the word "garment"
measurements. He stated that Wings needs your "supplied measurements".
Thats what I gave them. I gave them the measurements that they asked
for, which would make them the "suppled measurements". I never, ever
said I sent them any "garment" measurements, which seems to be what
you two are fixated on for some reason.

Will you please show me, where, or when, I said that I sent Wings
any measurements telling them how to make any part of a
jacket?

I NEVER said, nor did I imply, that I sent Wings anything other than
the measurements of my BODY, just like they asked!! And I have not
misquoted you Michaelson, nor have I put any words in your mouth,
as you seem to be doing to me. I have only quoted your own words,
but you are the ones who are putting words in my mouth.

That is where the two of you are totally off base.

You know what they say about people who ASSUME.

Yes, if someone sends a vendor specific GARMENT measurements, and
tells said vendor to make the jacket to those GARMENT measurements,
and the vendors does just that, and the GARMENT then does not fit said
person, then, yes, its the fault of the person who sent the GARMENT
measurements.

But I sent the measurements of my BODY, just as they asked. I also
was asked if I wanted a military fit jacket or a loose fit jacket. I told
Wings I wanted a military fit jacket.

SO WINGS SENT ME THE JACKET THAT THEY SAID WOULD FIT ME
ACCORDING THE MEASUREMENTS OF MY BODY THAT THEY ASKED
ME FOR, AND IT DID NOT FIT CORRECTLY.

Is that clear enough for you two?

I can cut and past every quote of mine, and yours if you want to prove
my point again if you wish.

Please, read your own posts, and my responses to those posts, and
tell me where oh where do you get your info from?

Oh and to this quote:

That's EXACTLY what I said... that's ALL that I said... and said quite clearly, if I may add

This IS your original post:

Do exactly what bink suggested. If they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

So, show me in your original quote, where you state that you were
talking about "garment" measurements. Wings does NOT ask for that,
so why would you send it to them? And what words do you claim I am
putting in your mouth if this is what YOU said?

And again, to answer your post, I DID SEND THEM MY SUPPLIED
MEASUREMENTS and they sent not only me, but others here on this
website jackets that did not fit as they said they would.

Michaelson says they will "match a jacket to your supplied measurements"
not that they will MAKE you a jacket. Match a jacket. They are two
different things aren' they? They are in my book. Match means they
will use the measurements of your body that you send them to pick out
a jacket from their inventory that they think will fit you according to
what fit you like, military or loose. They don't MAKE custom made jackets
like Wested.

How is that putting words in someones mouth? Those are the actual
words that were used.

Flathead

And just to be clear, I am not blaming Michaelson for anyones ill fitting
jacket as you suggest bink.

I am only talking about what has happened to me, and others here just
like yourself, to trust Wings to pick a jacket that will fit you.

I absolutely agree with both of you on the fact that people should always
try to get all the info on any expensive purchase, like a leather jacket.

All three of us are in agreement with that.

Flathead

If they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

My exact quote. No changes or addition. Did you miss the first, VERY important word in my statement? Yes. You did.

I'll even place it in bold type so you can read it, Flathead.....

IF.

..did you catch it that time? If not, I'll be more than happy to say it again...

IF they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

I even looked it up in the Websters for you for a definition:

Main Entry: 1if
Pronunciation: 'if, &f
Function: conjunction
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English gif; akin to Old High German ibu if
1 a : in the event that b : allowing that c : on the assumption that d : on condition that
2 : WHETHER <asked if the mail had come> <I doubt if I'll pass the course>
3 -- used as a function word to introduce an exclamation expressing a wish <if it would only rain>

Number 3 covers my meaning nicely.... a 'expressing a wish'.

Is that clear enough now?

I sure hope so. I'm too busy today to waste any further time on something as silly as this exchange.

Michaelson

I'll even place it in bold type so you can read it, Flathead.....

IF.

..did you catch it that time? If not, I'll be more than happy to say it again...

IF they match a jacket to your supplied measurements, it HAS to fit, right?

Is that clear enough now?

Exactly, IF! That is exactly what I meant in my very first reply to
this thread here, where I state that Wings does NOT get the sizing
down right, which was a direct answer to Michaelsons original statemet
of suppling the required measurements. I answered:

Not always, thats for sure.

When I got my US Wings Indy, I e-mailed them my measurements,
and they said I was a size large according to their own sizing charts.
I even asked them that I wanted as close to a military fit as they could
get me, and they still said large.

I even asked for the actual garment measurements from their size
medium and large BEFORE I placed my order so I could compare those
to jackets I already had, and fit me well, so I could make sure
I got the right size the first time. The girl on the phone had no clue
as to what those measurements were, nor could she tell me who I
could talk to to get that info. Not even Sarge himself knew what they
were, so I was stuck going on what they recommened.

So, I got the large as THEY suggested. Guess what? Its VERY big on
me, and its not even close to a military, closer to the body fit. It was HUGE!

I agree with you 100 percent. A Wings jacket is a gamble, and it
can become a very EXPENSIVE gamble IF you trust them to send you
the jacket they say will fit you, and then YOU have to spend money
sending it back, and trying to get one that fits right. That is a huge IF
that I do not, nor will I, try to gamble on.

So, because of their IF, we now have to resort to asking the person on
the phone to get up, walk over to the rack, get a bunch of different
jackets of different sizes, and actually sit there and measure each and
ever one.

Thats not an IF, thats a WHY.

So, yes, because of their IF, NOT mine, I got an ill fitting jacket.

Flathead

FLATHEAD wrote:
You know what they say about people who ASSUME.

Yes, I do. What gets me, though, is how you've managed to take the smallest thing and blow it way out of proportion. Let it go, Flathead. There are more important things in life than semantics.

What gets me, though, is how you've managed to take the smallest thing and blow it way out of proportion. Let it go, Flathead.

There are more important things in life than semantics.

Really? Well then, you can tell that to the guy who has to spend the
money to send a product back to a vendor because he listened to what
was said, and took it at FACE VALUE.

My original intent, if you and Michaelson go back and re-read my
original reply to his original question was to say that even
though you send Wings all the required information, you will NOT always
recieve a proper fitting jacket, as you personally know, as well as a ton
of others here, as proven by a simple search of this website.

If you go back and re-read my very first reply, it was curtious, and
only answered Michaelsons question. That was all. It was then that
the two of you misunderstood what was being said, and turned it into this,
not me.

I was actually AGREEING WITH THE TWO OF YOU. But you turned on
me for some reason or another, which I still can't figure out.

Flathead

Wow....the written word can be tough sometimes. Might an outsider interject?

The heart of the problem seems to be this:

Flathead: you give them your measurements, and expect to get a jacket that fits. Agreed, thats how it should happen, and for whatever reason it doesn't end up that way.

Michaelson/Bink: Rather than say, "Hey my chest is a 46, what size do you (Wings) reccommend?" You say "Hey Wings, grab a jacket off your rack, and measure the chest/sleeve etc." If that happens to be a medium and the sleeve is 25" long, and the sleeve on your jacket that you have at home that fits perfectly is 23" long, you back and say "Hey Wings, go get a jacket labeled small and take the measurement again", until you find the correct size.

So what's happening is that Bink skirted (kind of fits methinks ) the labeled size on their jackets and just went measuement for measurement on one of their jackets until one cloesly matched (an XS) one of his existing jackets (which might have been labeled a medium by some other maker).

That's exactly it, BJones.

Good grief. Is this still going on?


My comment was not intended in any way, shape or manner to move anyone in any direction what so ever.

I agreed with bink in the concept that if one supplies a vendor (ANY vendor) with particular specifications, and the item received MATCHED those specific measurements and requirements, the item would work. Period. Plain and simple. Nothing more....nothing less. I have since placed particular emphasis on the fact I included the word 'IF' in my comment.

Why it's been blow so far out of proportion, I have no clue.

I'm glad I didn't say 'If it doesn't rain, it might be a nice day!'

I'm sure I'd be jumped by someone saying 'How COULD you want it to rain, especially considering all the poor people in New Orleans who suffered and lost everything they owned to Hurricane Katrina....especially considering the fact this is the anniversery of the storm coming ashore. I know, I worked as a volunteer trying to help pull people out of the water, helped remove what few meager belongings out of their water logged homes...the loss....the humanity....the emotional impact on me while TRYING to help these poor souls sort out this terrible event....what EVIL soul could wish this on ANYONE is beyond me!!!! :evil:

Huh? All I said was 'if it didn't rain, it might be a nice day.'

It must have been that full lunar eclipse that took place the other night that started all this.

If you want to make more out it from here, you're on your own. I've found this thread to be 'a silly place' now.

Regards! Michaelson