Club Obi Wan

I am just wondering what the best way to break in a new roo hide whip would be. I just got one, and I remember the last one I had before I sold it, and it took forever to not be stiff anymore, and even after months of cracking, it was still stiff. It felt like I had to really put some muscle into it to get it to move and crack (which I KNOW is bad). I felt like an idiot trying to crack this whip that wouldn't really crack because it was so stiff, or it would crack with less volume than a bad "Tijuana mama" (firecracker).

Can any of the pros here give me some guidance on how to break this whip in so that it rolls and cracks without having to spend 5 years waiting for it to get to that point?

Strider aside from sending it to me and letting me do it the best way to break a new kangaroo hide whip is just to use it the way you would normally and let it break in gradually. Whip maker Mike Murphy has suggested that you can gently flex the whip back and forth in your hands while rotating it to break it in faster but for the most part it’s really not recommend to try to rush it along.

Some whips will take a while to break in, Joe Stains are notorious for this but others will crack well practically right out of the box so just be patient with it. Definitely avoid the temptation to use any type of leather dressings or oils to try to loosen it up.

By the way, what kind of whip did you get?

Dan

Thanks for the advice.

By the way, what kind of whip did you get?

Since I got a couple PM's asking the same question, I'll post it here, since the auction is over now anyway.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0137528839

Bam! Stole that 10' DM, baby! The guy says it's already broken in, but he doesn't say how broken in, so I wanted to get some pointers before I got it, just in case it was still stiff.

Now that's a nice looking whip It looks broken in already so you shouldn't have anything to worry about.

-Josh

Ha ! I was looking at that, Thought about pulling the trigger on it. I guess I should thank you for saving me money that I didn't have to spend ! Good Catch ! Enjoy it !

Nice catch. You must have bought that just after I was looking at it last night. I emailed the seller asking about this whip. When you buy on ebay how can you guarantee you are getting a real Morgan? Does it come with some kind of certificate?
thanks and congrats.
Canada

That's a really nice indy whip, I saw it yesterday on ebay. But, I am sorry to be the one who tells you this (I'm sure many members here have already noticed that), your whip is not a Morgan. Rather, it looks like it is a Strain. Still a great whip, but not what the seller said it was. I thought you should know that.

Regards,

Bernardo

Let me try out my detective skills on the differences of this whip and morgans:
1. Turks head is smaller than a DM
2. Handle is thicker than a DM
3. The last strand on the fall hitch that is tucked under the fall is too long...unless the fall has been changed..but even if the fall was changed, I'm not sure how this strand would have grown.
4. The turks head is different style knot.

When you buy a used morgan aside from things that Morgan does with his whips there is no real way to tell for sure. When you buy a whip from Morgan all you get is a reciept and possibly the tag that hangs from the wristloop of the whip.

I've debated selling my morgan, but don't want to try to find the reciept in case someone wants "proof" other than what you can visually see.

xoxo

Louie

That's a really nice indy whip, I saw it yesterday on ebay. But, I am sorry to be the one who tells you this (I'm sure many members here have already noticed that), your whip is not a Morgan. Rather, it looks like it is a Strain. Still a great whip, but not what the seller said it was. I thought you should know that.

Regards,

Bernardo

If that is the case then he shouldnt pay for it. I wouldnt ! That would be false advertising and I think that EBay will stand behind Strider on this one.....

Like I said I emailed the seller yesterday to ask him about it. He emailed me this:

"Sorry, I did not personally buy it from David Morgan but another guy. It is truly the best whip I have ever cracked! had bought it from someone else."

Perhaps this other person told him it was a morgan and he did not know any better. I bet if you contact the guy and tell him this he might do something for you. Actually I think even if you paid (paypal anyway) you might be able to get your money back if he is a decent guy or if you take this up with ebay. I like the idea of buying a used morgan cheap but like so much on ebay how the heck do you know if something is genuine. I have bought a few autographed items from ebay and honestly now question if they are even real. Sometimes it is worth more to know you got the real thing.
still a nice whip though.
Canada

get your money back strider, a non-dm 10' roo that is used shouldn't cost you that much. you can buy a brand new whip from most whip artisans for that money. i wish you the best of luck on this and i hope that truth and honesty prevails in this venture.

I think getting a refund from the seller will be great, or if he reduces the price so you pay what's fair. Joe Strain's whips are definitely a fine piece of art, but they do not cost as much as a Morgan whip.

A quick check to Western Stage Props prices for an Indy whip (they carry Joe's whips) confirmed that a new 12 plait, 10 ft, kangaroo, solid color bullwhip retails for $ 450, and the same whip bought directly from Joe (www.northernwhipco.com) costs $ 500.

Hope this situation has a happy ending for you.

Good luck!

Bernardo

Ok, please correct me if my memory has failed me....but wasn't Joe Strain an apprentice with David Morgan at the DM shop for a few years before setting out on his own?

Is it possible the original buyer purchased this from DM, but Joe Strain actually made it? If this is the case, is this an actual false auction description? No where in that item description does it say Morgan himself made the whip.

Just thinking out loud...

Regards! Michaelson

If Joe was making the 450 series whip for morgan (I dont know if he did or didn't) it would be probably be made to the 450 "pattern", i.e. the same knots.

That's just my guess...I could be wrong.

Louie

Michaelson,

I'm afraid that's not correct. Joe Strain visited David Morgan on a few occasions and received much help from him. But, he never was his apprentice. According to Morgan and Joe, (I disscussed this with both) Joe already knew how to make whips when he visited David, and he basically improved his techniques with Morgan's generous advise.

For the record, according to Morgan himself, the ONLY apprentice that he's ever had, in the proper australian tradition (5 years of apprenticeship at least) is his skilled assistant Meagan Thomas.

My theory is that iether the seller is lying, or he was fooled in thinking he bought a Morgan whip.

Bernardo

Like I say, I have no idea what so ever....but just wanted to toss that out there for everyone's consideration before a rope is found for a lynching.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Bernardo!

Regards! Michaelson

A rope? great idea!

Regards,

Bernardo

Nothing to really add that hasn’t been already well stated. The Bullwhip in that pictured in that auction is not a David Morgan bullwhip; but rather the Western Stage Prop version, that particular one was made by Joe Strain, as Bernardo and Louie pointed out.


David Morgan knot compared to the WSP Joe Strain.

I’ve sent Strider a PM earlier today when I first seen his post, so hopefully he can resolve the situation.

Dan

Michaelson wrote:....but just wanted to toss that out there for everyone's consideration before a rope is found for a lynching.

oh, the Lord loves a hangin', that's why he gave us necks!!

Just so everyone knows, I haven't actually paid for it yet. I was going to send a postal money order, so I was going to do it on Tuesday or something. At least this gives me time to take it up with the seller and see what they're going to do about it.

[EDIT] I've sent the seller an e-mail relating to him the facts I have learned as presented here. I told him I'd make him a deal, and that I'd give him the 450 for the whip as if it were new from WSP, even though it is used. Let's see what happens, eh? Does Joe Strain post here? Maybe he can chime in and maybe come to my aid with the seller.[/EDIT]

Looks like Mr. Strain has increased his prices, too bad.

Strider, Joe is a member but he isn’t active. You might want to drop him an e-mail or give him a call. His contact info is at his site www.northernwhipco.com, WSP could probably help too.

VP, Unfortuntly the cost of whips do tend rise once or twice a year.

Dan

While on this subject, I've seen at least two whips being passed off as a morgan in the last month on Ebay.

THis being one of them, now this clearly looks like a snakewhip and event he plaiting looks wrong for a morgan ?

OK... so the good news is I called the seller and talked with him on the phone. I related to him the information I've learned here as it was related to me, and we had a good discussion. He was generally friendly, admitted to not being a whip expert, and that he had just assumed it was a DM because the person he'd gotten it from had told him so.

When I explained to him that the devil is in the details, and we went over a few things, he agreed to sell me the whip for 450. He told me the fall may need replacing, but that's something I can get done through one of our many talented whipmakers here. The seller is a power seller with 750 feedback (99.2% positive), one being negative. I researched the one negative feedback he'd gotten, and even the person who left the negative in the first place had left a comment saying to disregard said feedbacl. It wasn't even over an item issue, it was a payment issue.

I feel safe in sending the money order. I'll post pics and maybe video when I get it and let everyone know what happens.

Looks like a dead snakewhip too.

Tuck - I think that's still a nice looking whip, and if you're not picky about who made it, I wouldn't worry about it. But if you decide not to take it, there's plenty of other whipmakers on board here who make wonderful whips in the $500 range. I was looking at a beautiful whip the other day by one of our makers here that was 10' cost only $400!!! PM me for info if you want. I'm very excited about this guy's whips and only wish I had the money to buy one right now, or I would.

And in regards to your initial question, I agree with Borton; just crack it like normal (using good form and whatnot), and it'll break in. My Stenhouse broke in wonderfully after just a couple short months, and it's one of my favorite whips I've ever cracked (which includes 2 or 3 Morgans, a Winrich, and some other thing ). Just get to know the whip and work with it.

EDIT: Oh, you beat me! Well anyway, like I said, it's a great looking whip and I'm sure it'll be good for you! Congratulations on a good buy and a good deal!

In Christ,
Shane

Strider:
Glad to see you working this out with seller. I did not get the impression he was trying to be dishonest. At the end of the day if you get a whip at a price you are happy with I think that is the important thing.

Looks like we avoided the lynching...

Canada

That "david Morgan" snake whip looks nothing like anything he currently has listed on his site...and the seller is giving inaccurate "current" pricing on DM snakewhips.

Sometimes I wonder how some people pimp out a whip...and still sleep at night?

Louie

Well the thing is , it,s being passed off as a bullwhip !!!

Strider, glad to see you where able to work things out with the seller. It’s a very nice bullwhip. From looking at it and using Joes whips myself, it looks nicely broken it and should crack readily. The fall looks ok to me, but it can be hard to tell from a picture. As long as its been kept well greased it shouldn’t need replacing yet, but even if it does, repair shouldn’t be a big deal especially if the hitches are in good shape.

I know very well that there are some sellers out there that purposefully deceive buyers, but there are also those who just don’t know any better and honest mistakes happen even with the best of intentions. When buying whips, Particularly on E-Bay you really need to be careful. You need to know what to look for in the pictures and what questions to ask. It’s just so easy to get taken if your not, even still Caveat emptor Let the buyer beware. David Morgan has sold a lot of whips since he’s been in business, not just his but whips by other whip makers as well. It’s easy for a novice or some one who owns the whip second hand to think that because it might have been purchased from the David Morgan store or because it looks enough like one of his whips, that that makes it a David Morgan whip. Others unfortuntly wouldn’t know the difference between a snake whip a bullwhip and a stock whip, to them a whip is a whip there just selling an item.

Dan

BullWhipBorton wrote:Strider, glad to see you where able to work things out with the seller. It’s a very nice bullwhip. From looking at it and using Joes whips myself, it looks nicely broken it and should crack readily. The fall looks ok to me, but it can be hard to tell from a picture. As long as its been kept well greased it shouldn’t need replacing yet, but even if it does, repair shouldn’t be a big deal especially if the hitches are in good shape.

Well, the guy told me on the phone that he's cracked the whip and that it cracks smoothly, though that doesn't necessarily mean that the whip is in the best shape it possibly could be in. I will definitely post pics and info once I get the whip, and again after I've taken it out to the park to crack. The seller is also including the jar of Pecards you see in the pictures, and I think he's including the whip holder, too. After he told me over the phone that the fall may need replacing, I asked him if he'd been greasing it up with Pecards after every use, and he said he hadn't, mainly because he didn't know TO be doing it in the first place, so we will have to see. I will definitely give it a good coating of Pecards just on general principle when I get it after I look at it.

BullWhipBorton wrote:I know very well that there are some sellers out there that purposefully deceive buyers, but there are also those who just don’t know any better and honest mistakes happen even with the best of intentions.

I told him that same thing on the phone. After talking to him awhile, I told him that I truly did not believe that this was mismarked on purpose, and that I was glad he was willing to work with me on the price as opposed to standing firm. That would've stunk, because then I'd be talking negative feedback, which I would've taken to avoid over spending, but it still would've stunk.

BullWhipBorton wrote:When buying whips, Particularly on E-Bay you really need to be careful. You need to know what to look for in the pictures and what questions to ask. It’s just so easy to get taken if your not, even still Caveat emptor Let the buyer beware.

It'd be cool to have a reference tool somewhere where potential buyers parusing these threads could look at what kind of questions to ask and what to be on the lookout for. Maybe like a sticky or something with pictures and a few paragraphs on what to ask, what to look for, and why.

BullWhipBorton wrote:David Morgan has sold a lot of whips since he’s been in business, not just his but whips by other whip makers as well. It’s easy for a novice or some one who owns the whip second hand to think that because it might have been purchased from the David Morgan store or because it looks enough like one of his whips, that that makes it a David Morgan whip. Others unfortuntly wouldn’t know the difference between a snake whip a bullwhip and a stock whip, to them a whip is a whip there just selling an item.

I actually said the same thing to the seller on the phone. In the instance of Indy Gear, a lot of the items are the same to a lot of people. A jacket is a jacket, a hat is a hat, a whip is a whip. They don't notice small things like that, and to be fair, that's nothing against them. It isn't their area of interest, so as much as some gearheads get down on others ("how could they NOT see the difference between a Raiders hat and a TOD hat!?"), it's just not their thing, and everything does look virtually the same. Fortunately, the seller was very understanding, responsive, and sympathetic. Let's hope it wasn't all an act, and I don't wind up with a pig in a poke, eh?

It'd be cool to have a reference tool somewhere where potential buyers parusing these threads could look at what kind of questions to ask and what to be on the lookout for. Maybe like a sticky or something with pictures and a few paragraphs on what to ask, what to look for, and why.

I agree, maybe I can put something together like that to give a basic rundown of some things to look out for and questions to ask when buying used whips.

Let me know when you get your new whip.

Dan

I sure will! The guy already gave me a tracking number, and paid for 2nd day FedEx air shipping, which was 29$. I only sent him 15 for shipping, so it wouldn't make sense for him to ship a box of rocks 2nd day air at 29$. I'm confident that he's sent the whip in the package.

All,

I got the whip today. It's the same whip in the pictures, and he even sent me the jar of Pecards you see in the ebay photo, as well as the whip holder. I haven't cracked it yet, but I will try to here shortly, and take pics whenever I can. Probably Monday. Thanks for the advice, concern, and PM's, everyone!

How is it ? Is it a nice whip ? Glad you received it OK !

Ripper,

After cracking it, it's a nice whip. The fall does indeed need replacing, though. It's less than 18" at this point, so on my next pay check, one of our talented whip makers here will be getting an e-mail from me about fall replacement. Probably Adam Winrich, as he is the vendor I've always sent my whips to for that reason. The only thing the fall needed was a little Pecards, which the seller graciously provided pro bono, but even with the Pecard treatment, it's just too short. Otherwise, overall, the whip is great.

The fall hitch seems to be in good order, as well as the plaiting - it's all tight. I always have a problem eyeballing the length of a whip when I see it. They always look too short to me, but after cracking it, it takes longer to set up than my 8' IOAB, so I know it's a 10 footer.

Strider wrote:Ripper,

After cracking it, it's a nice whip. The fall does indeed need replacing, though. It's less than 18" at this point, so on my next pay check, one of our talented whip makers here will be getting an e-mail from me about fall replacement. Probably Adam Winrich, as he is the vendor I've always sent my whips to for that reason. The only thing the fall needed was a little Pecards, which the seller graciously provided pro bono, but even with the Pecard treatment, it's just too short. Otherwise, overall, the whip is great.

The fall hitch seems to be in good order, as well as the plaiting - it's all tight. I always have a problem eyeballing the length of a whip when I see it. They always look too short to me, but after cracking it, it takes longer to set up than my 8' IOAB, so I know it's a 10 footer.

boy, glad to hear this worked out as well as it did.

The few evilbay problems I have had were never worth a negative so I let them slide and they more than made up for a couple of deals that were WAY understated by the seller [one was several Pentax screw mount lenses that seemed to be never used and a Canonet 17 that actually was never used, it had NEVER even had light seals installed and the little plastic fake film that came with the camera was still inside]

Strider, Glad to hear the bullwhip arrived and that you are happy with it.

A fall below 18 inches is getting a bit short for a fall, at least in my opinion so yeah I’d recommended either having a new one put on, or doing it yourself.

Dan

Strider:
i am also this worked out for you and you are happy with the whip.
Best
Canada

Once I get the fall replaced, I'll probably go out and take a video or two of me cracking it. It wasn't really as loud as I would've liked when I first took it out, but that's because I need time to acclimate to a 10' whip, getting my timing and technique right and whatnot else, because I'm very used to an 8' whip. It looks really great, though. Of course, what stinks is as soon as I buy it, I see another Joe Strain up on ebay for under 300, but no BIN, so hopefully the bidding gets close to what I paid so I don't feel like an idiot for having too itchy of a trigger finger.

BullWhipBorton wrote:A fall below 18 inches is getting a bit short for a fall

What's the minimum length of a fall? Mine is about 31½ inches.

[quote=" I see another Joe Strain up on ebay for under 300, but no BIN, .[/quote]

What is BIN?
Canada

Buy it Now, I think.

VP wrote:Buy it Now, I think.

Good Call VP. I am sure you are right. So many accronyns. LOL
best
Canada

Yeah it's buy it now. Let's see what it ends at.

Well Strider looks like you were vindicated and in a big way. that Strain whip on ebay sold for over $650 bucks! I was shocked! That is almost the cost of a new Morgan whip! Wow some people do not do their homework or get so deadset on winning that they pay way too much. In fact in the ebay posting the guy says you can buy a new Joe Strain whip for $450. I can't believe it. Indy must be hot hot hot. I am sure that you are feeling pretty good about your purchase right now. Actually I bet you can relist that whip you just bought and make money on it at this rate. It looks like 2 guys bid $650 with the second guy bidding and winning at $650.99.
congrats.
Canada

I was floored when I saw that end price! Blew me out of the water. I offered to pay my seller 450 because I had been the one to bid on the whip before asking the proper questions and doing my homework, but even though at the time I thought I could probably have talked him down lower if I really wanted to take advantage (I didn't), it seems as though I got a deal, eh?

Wow. You're right, Canada. Must be the Indy IV factor!

Wow, some one really wanted that whip! maybe I should sell one of mine .

Interesting side note, that’s one of Joe's custom Indy bullwhips, not the Western Stage Props version. You can tell by the cross sections, er rather by the 5 part by 4 bight 3 pass turkshead knot on the whip like David Morgan uses, rather then Joe's usual 7 part by 6 bight 2 pass turkshead knot he uses for the WSP Indy bullwhips.

Dan

That being said Dan, I am guessing that even so, this particular Joe Strain still wasn't really worth 650?

not even close

i'm sure it was worth it for the winner just to shut the other bidder up.....sometimes its not about what your bidding on in the end, its just about winning. spite is a very, very bad thing.......now if you will excuse me, someone is trying to outbid me on a knickerbocker sesame street ernie doll.......lets see if he's willing to go 4 digits on it.......moohoowahhahahahahah!!!!!!!!!