Club Obi Wan

Does anybody have an Idea as to what type of watch Indy might have carried? Maybe a pocket watch? or I was thinking the Pearl Harbor commemorative(sp?) watch?

Indiana wrote:Does anybody have an Idea as to what type of watch Indy might have carried? Maybe a pocket watch? or I was thinking the Pearl Harbor commemorative(sp?) watch?

That was December 7, 1941...so he wouldn't have carried that in any of the films.

-Rabittooth

Rabittooth wrote:

Indiana wrote:Does anybody have an Idea as to what type of watch Indy might have carried? Maybe a pocket watch? or I was thinking the Pearl Harbor commemorative(sp?) watch?

That was December 7, 1941...so he wouldn't have carried that in any of the films.

-Rabittooth

That's true, even I knew that!

High regards

Doctor Jones

Well hey the MK VII bag was produced after. This one looks like something he would have worn I will try to find a Pic.

I would say if you could find a pocket watch from that era or one that resembles one that should work. I have and old Elgin and Waltham conductor watches that I use. Just my .02 cents

Regards,
Colt

Jaeger LeCoultre Reverso. It was first made in the twenties for British troops in India as a watch that was tough but stylish. And he wore one in The Fugitive. Kittlemeier

My dad owns a Jaeger LeCoultre. He got it from an uncle of his who sadly passed away a few months ago. But it ain't a pocket watch but a nice wrist watch from the 40's.

Kind regards

Doctor Jones

1930's Gruen. Then again let's think about this:


$300 hat

$200 pants

$100 shirt

$250 jacket

$100 bag (with strap)

$500 + whip

$250 shoes

$300 glasses

Indy would wear a 1930 ROLEX oyster perpetual (bubble top for durability) Brown leather band or:

1930 Omega Seamaster Professional (wind up) with brown leather band, silver case so no one will try to rob him (he deals with that enough as it is)

I didn't know that the Omega Seamaster was that old. All I know is it's the same watch my dad has, and it's also James Bond...Pierce Brosnan's choice.

Anyways, who says Indy even has a watch at all. Do we ever see him with one?

Sorry Doc, it is a wristwatch with a small rectangular face, somewhat similar in appearance to a 30's Gruen Curvex, but it's not curved. It has a cool little hinge system to flip the case so that the crystal is protected, hence the name Reverso. Also, it was first produced in '31, not the 20's as I thought, but it still makes the timeline cut. It's actually still produced today. I'd love to have one but $5,000 or so dollars isn't quite in the budget this week. I really don't think he carried a watch though, archeaology does not deal in time schedules. Does your Dad have a Reverso or one of the others? Kittlemeier

I've been thinking about the "watchquestion" some time ago.

What Dan said absolutely makes sense. All of Indys gear were hightest quality - heck, just see what Dans LK's been through - so why not go for a Rolex or an Omega as well?

On the other hand, Indy's wearing officers pants (correct my if I'm wrong) and a bag from the Britisch Army, his hat was made in good old England, so was the jacket so in my opinion he wore a watch from the Britisch war departmend.

Whether it was a pocket watch or not, is hard to tell. Indy was quite up to date with his clothes and his guns so why shouldn't he wear a wrist watch? Then again, why don't we see it?

Well, from a certain point of view we do! Look at the making of on your THX videos. Harrison Ford wears a wrist watch with metal band. It very much looks like a Rolex Oyster to me, but maybe you'd better take a look yourself. BUT, and this is a big one, this is the watch of Harrison Ford and he could be wearing a digital watch as well (was the 80's, remember?).

Marc

...Indiana Jones and Philosopher's Stone, Indy pulled out a large silver cased pocket watch, and it's the only time I recall a time piece being attached with the character. I have to believe it's either an Elgin or Waltham myself, as they were pretty common during this time period, and were called 'bull killers' or turnip watches in their day, as the folks who carried them claimed they could be thrown against a wall and not lose a second. I don't think I'd try it, but I carry an 18 size Waltham 1901 17 jewel pocket watch myself, and have to say it's a pocket full. Regards. Michaelson

Michaelson,

I'd love to see some pics of your watch if possible.

Regards,

Marc

...I'd be more than happy to show it, but unfortuately, I don't . You can find a lot of these 'monsters' on ebay under either 'Waltham pocket watch', or 'Elgin pocket watch'. I've been a pocket watch collector since I was 9, so I've had a LOT of different watches come in and out of my possession over the years. Regards. Michaelson

Come to think of it there was also a pocket watch in Peril at Delphi. Indy checks it after he is lowered into the fissure beneath the Delphic oracle.

- Illinois

I forgot about that reference. Thanks! Regards. Michaelson

I have to say that the omission of a watch of some sort was a mistake on the costumer's part. A guy like Indy certainly would have needed to keep track of time. It's kind of disappointing actually. They needlessly deprived us of another piece of gear to go after (grin). Cheers

The true Bond, Sean Connery (hey, wasn't he in something else that is familiar? ), always wore a Rolex Submariner. Just since Goldeneye with Pierce Brosnan has the Omega Seamaster become the watch of choice.

Dan, you are right on the money! I have always felt Indy would have worn a Rolex, either a Submariner (a dive watch) or a GMT Master (a watch with dual time zone features for travel) with a metal link wristband. In my opinion, there simply is no other watch than a Rolex. And no I don't have one yet, but I'm saving for it because I have ALWAYS wanted one.

Are there more expensive watches than a Rolex? Yes. (I once saw a $99,000 watch in Tiffany's on 5th Avenue in New York. That is insane.) But are there any better watches? Absolutely not. Rolex has been, is, and will always be the finest watch in the world.

www.rolex.com

This is just my two cents and this not ment as a bash to the other posts by any means but to provide a little tid bit on the Rolex and my opinion on the Omega Seamaster.

A Rolex is a more symbol of wealth and power, two things one does not associate with Indy. To own one is like being a part of an elite group. An Indy watch should in my opinion be within the range of a struggling professor ( Hamilton, Longines Leather strap Tank or a pocket watch). Sean wearing one was purely luck because the novel described some features of Bond's watch which had some likeness to a Rolex when Bond uses it as a knuckle duster. But those features are common to a normal divers watch as well, though Rolex made them famous. Actually when filming started, the production company approached Rolex and they did not want to have anything to do the Bond movies.

Since they were filming in remote locations and there was no time for one to be actually bought for Sean, the director took off his and and handed to Sean after fitting it with a make do strap, which had pink lines on the strap (yuck!), hence the ill fitting Rolex that Sean sports in the first movie.
Watches for the Bond movies have been many, Rolex, Casio, Seiko, Brietling, and finally Omega.

In terms of quality, both watches have to face the same high Swiss rating system and both are certified for their performance on the same basis.
In terms of being practical the Omega Seamaster has more features, has a more comfortable strap than the generic uncomfortable Rolex strap.

Omega is more closer to the Bond watch than a Rolex with Large clear makers, push button strap, wave dial (reminder that Bond was and is a Navy Commander), and the helium release button, sort like wearing the worlds smallest decompression chamber on ones wrist.
In terms of Indy I would go with a Hamilton or the Longine tank, because one has the appearence of military issue gear (goes well with web belts, and officers pinks) and the other is closer to the time period than a Rolex.
I also second the thought of the pocket watch for Indy.
Just some thoughts. I do hope that I have not offended anybody.

Kind regards and best wishes,
Stefan.

Working the academic arena (specifically a University), I concur with Stefen's thought process, as they are pretty much what I think (and have witnessed of professors around here at my Institute) that professors either wear (this day and age) a Timex, or no watch at all. The cheaper, the better, as they aren't paid all that much money, even in this day and age. To think Indy would have a VERY high end watch, even in that time period, just doen't jell with the realities of the job or the money received for their position. I mean, heck, he didn't even have a decent office to work out of. I, too, think he would wear a tanker (also with the argument based on his past military experiences in the fields of France during WWI), or the pocket watch as mentioned in the novels, or even regular practice of the time period. My only difference of opinion would be what brand, as Hamilton was considered pretty high end during the 1930's. I would think the wrist watch would have been either an Elgin, as they were in every range of price one can imagine, or a Benrus, which was a standard Swiss 17 jewel that was the basis that all tankers were copied from. The Benrus WAS the original 'tanker' that the tank drivers preferred during the Great War, and could have easily found it's way in Indy's possession during his time of service. Regards. Michaelson

Make it a 17 jewel Swiss movement, and eliminate the day/date function, and you're there. Regards. Michaelson

Well, Rolex's are indeed wealth symbols to many, but they are a big thing in the military. Specifically with Army Special Forces units, Rolex's are a must have. I know this from experience of being around people that will sit at dinner talking about Rolex watches. While they are a ritzy thing, Rolex's are a very durable watch and very symbolistic of the military. If your talking about the perception of the Rolex watch in the media, even Thomas Magnum wears a Rolex GMT watch in 5 seasons of Magnum, p.i. and he is a Navy SEAL and intel type. So, in my opinion, Rolex's are very militaristic and distinguish a person that has traveled the world and knows of some of the finer things in life.

Here's a picture of Selleck wearing his Rolex...

http://www.ultimatemagnum.com/Cajema/TMAutograph1.jpg

...ARE. We're talking about 'were', and in this context. No military man, with the exception of officiers, could afford high end time pieces. Most just carried their own personal pocket time pieces, as wrist watches were consider feminine up to and including the first part of WWI. The 'tanker' was introduced by tank operators of the British armed forces as they could not comfortably carry or use their pocket time pieces, and when on leave in France, picked up the Benrus standard wrist watch to wear, finding them extremely easy to use inside the 'belly of the beast' of WWI tank. It caught on with the man in the trenches very quickly, and the name 'tank type', or 'tanker' stuck with this design. There was nothing high end or fancy about them, as they were just a standard Swiss squareish men's wrist watch. It wasn't until the roaring 20's and the 30's that the tanker REALLY came into vogue, and the high jeweled watch was the way to go. Items like the Lord Elgin 21jewel was a VERY popular and sought after tank watch, which still brings premimum prices on eBay to this very day. I've even read stories from diaries of POW's during WWII trading food stuffs for derelic Lord Elgins to carry in their pockets, just to remind them of home. The peace of mind of having a non-working tank Lord Elgin meant more to them than even having something to eat that particular day. Interesting what something like that will represent, but I wander off the road. Based on military practices today, you're absolutely and completely correct. The sports model type (Rolex included) has been the standard military type watch for a while, but no such thing existed in Indy's day, and even a large wrist watch was never seen until the 1960's, and up to that time was considered to large for wear. Interesting what has changed in the past 30 years. A big watch was considered to much until the mid1960's, then because the standard the world over. Standard small cased tank type wrist watch became considered a 'dress watch', rather than for daily wear. Ok, help me off my soapbox....you entered one of my other hobbies here, and I can get on a roll (or could you tell? ) Regards. Michaelson

I wear Tank watches regularly just because they seem period to me and I like to dress more or less classically on a regular basis. There are some very nice, inexpensive, modern watches that replicate the look with the convenience of accuracy and a replacable battery. If you aren't going for complete authenticity, a stop at the local mall yeilds nice results without breaking the bank.

Question to Michaelson:

Which would be more accurate for the time? A leather or a metal band?

...though expandable metal bands were available at the time. Regards. Michaelson

Michaelson, you are right about the fact that not many people wore Rolex's in Indy's time. Also, you are right that many people could not afford them, especially in post 1929 crash era.

However, one point further that I would like to address. The Rolex name and brand was first created in 1908 by Hans Wilsdorf in London. It almost instantainiously became a very popular item with both the moneied individuals and the well traveled. So, I just think that since Indy didn't have a wife or children, he would have had extra money from all of the contributions he had made to Brody's museum (Just those stone pieces he brought back from Peru in the beginning of Raiders were worth the price of a ticket to Marakesh which was $2000 in 1936 American currency). Also, being a very well traveled person, he would have heard of Rolex and quite possibly would have bought one since back then they were much cheaper and the GMT Master had dual timezone mode. Just my opinion, I may be wrong. Thanks for reading!

High Regards,

Magnum

Below are a few pics of my Gruens. Both are wind up. Cheers

Great looking watches there Rundquist! Those are very clean and refined watches, yet classy. I like them. Where did you get them and for how much?

Well the black one I found at a the now defunct Great Western Gunshow. It cost me $150, but I put a real crocodile leather band on it and that cost me another $80 ($50-80?), I think. The brown one I picked up in a watch store in the Valley (California) that is actually only about a mile from Frederick's Basic Shoe. It cost me $350. I bought it because it was exceptionally clean and clean watches of this vintage are getting hard to find. There are many "doggie" ones on Ebay these days, but the clean ones are few and far between and the cost of them is dramatically higher. I'm dying to get a black faced one, like the one below. Cheers

This is fascinating stuff (that's coming from a guy wearing a 4 jewel Swatch Irony ).
Rundquist, just for comparative purposes, could you possibly post a screen grab from The Making of Raiders where HF is visible wearing a wrist watch (it's in the second documentary when they're shooting on the dig site and Spielberg explains Harry how to enter the tent)? I wonder if this was his watch.

Totally understand and agree with the Rolex discussion above. Another thing that can be considered would be the so called Candian Rolex's, sold under the name 'Lipton' , among others. They were 15 jewel Rolex movments made and cased by the Rolex company, but shipped and sold in Canada under Canadian names. They were VERY popular with the college crowd during the 1930's, and were one of the most popular graduation gifts available. You can find these all over the place for a lot less than a Rolex marked dial, but it's a numbered and factory built and tested Rolex inside the case. I have and wear one that was my Dad's, production dated 1943, that he wore during the war. The Swiss continued to produce the watches during the war, but because of their neutrality, they couldn't get them out to the Canadian market using the regular shipping means, so they were purchased by any military that were in the area, or smuggled out to England for sale to the troups. Lots of good watches are out there, and all over the price range too. Regards. Michaelson

Talking pocket watches, for my daily as well as Indy wear I use an old Westclox "Pocket Ben." It has a "second" timer at the bottom where the "6" would be, and it's a winder! No battery here. It also has a yellowed "antiquey" appearance on the face that I'm not sure if that's the way it came, or that's from it's age and it was originally a solid yellowish color without the "antiquey" look. It was either my Father's or my Grandfather's watch, I'm not sure. Since Dad passed away over a year ago, I'll never know. I'm not even sure how old it is... it could be the 1960's or earlier. It only looses about 10 minutes a day, so I keep an eye on it. I'm using it daily as it reminds me of my father, as well as I'm trying to lose the old "tan line" where my wristwatch was. Any ideas as to it's age?

On an idea, I went to Ebay for a looksee.... and found 2 watches identical to my Dad's/Granddad's watch. Either of these are idential in appearance...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =944874744
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... =944462452

Only thing is I don't have a box, just the watch. Plus their faces are a normal white, whereas mine is yellowed and antiquey.

The original Westclox 'dollar' watch dates all the way back to the turn of the 20th century. It has no jewels, the crystal you have is plastic (makes it a mid-1950 period timepiece in your pocket) as the less expensive watches used a lower priced plastic that yellowed with age. Prior to mid-1950 they were glass. It's as 'Indy' as even the Gruen's, Elgins, or Lipton watches, as you can use the argument that he picked up one of these before each and every trip, as they only cost a buck, and could be easily replaced if wrecked in a misadventure. The Westclox and New Haven (what I carry when working in the yard) were competitors, and though the New Haven has gone the way of the dodo bird, the Westclox 'Scotty' still appears in Walmarts or K-marts to this day. Tough little watch. Regards. Michaelson p.s. the 'timer' at the 6 o'clock postion is the second hand, or in the industry, is referred to as the 'second bit'. It's run off the the 7 wheel 'train' of the movement.

Thanks Michaelson, you are definately a wealth of knowledge! And as for my lil' Pocket Ben, I'm gonna be taking good care of her for a long time...

I was going to suggest you drop by a watch repair shop and see if you can have the regulator 'tweaked' to run the time up some, but with a 10 min. a day loss, it's not worth the effort. A regular will only correct a watch from top to bottom about 2 minutes adjustment in either direction. A cleaning is in order, but they're getting so dang expensive, I'd just suggest you keep that watch wound everyday (a watch not wound daily is worse off than one stored and NOT running. It's a machine, and a non-running machine starts to break down.) and enjoy it as is. Regards. Michaelson

Hey Michaelson, here's a question for you. Is it true that in the older days they used whale oil as a watch lubricant and after about a year the parts would gum up and that's why you needed to get your watches cleaned? Do the synthetic oils that they use now make cleaning less necessary? Thanks

....the old lubricants were awful, but it was what they had. It really depends on where you live...how you use the watch, and so forth. For a standard use, run of the mill type watch in daily wear, watch repairmen recommend cleanings every one to two years. This allows for cleaning, adjustment AND timing of the watch in what ever position the movement is made for. Most pocket watches are adjusted for 2 positions....crown up, and on it's back. Higher jeweled are usually 4 to 6 positions for adjustment, as well as temperature. We could go on and on with this, but best practice is around every 2 years or so, as any lubricant, regardless of type or quality, will eventually break down, and even though the bearings are actually rubies, if a bit of dirt or grit works it's way between a pinion of a wheel and a jewel, it will either wear the jewel hole out to a larger diameter, allowing the wheel to wobble, or will crack the jewel. This can be a costly replacement. Bear in mind, almost all parts are still available for 18 and 16 size pocket watches, regardless of age. Smaller movements are a bit harder to find, but they're still out there. Biggest thing to remember KEEP THEM WOUND AND RUNNING. The biggest problem with a watch that does not run is having the main spring 'set'. If it is in a non-running position, it will set in what ever position it stopped in, and will not keep full power when started up again, eventually causing the watch to run slower and slower, then for less than 25 hours. You'll have to have the spring replaced.A pet peeve of mine is folks who go through all the trouble of having an heirloom watch pulled out of the safe deposit box, cleaned, oiled and timed, only to put it BACK in the box for 'safe storage'. They may as well of thrown it into a lake, in my opinion. A good watch will last several lifetimes, as long as it's well mantained and treated well. Like I said, I could ramble on about this as much as Indy related items, so I better stop here. Hope you can find your answer in the mess above. Regards. Michaelson

I never thought about the "keep it wound all the time" for the watch. I actually thought since there was no battery to worry about, no running would keep it better. I'm SOOOO glad I posted in this thread so I'll ALWAYS keep it going, and going, and going..... like a certain bunny we all love/hate.
Thanks again Michaelson!

Try parking your car for a year in your garage, then walking out and trying to start it. The battery is dead, the seals, gaskets, and all rubber have dried out and probably dry rotted, the oil is now thick as syrup, and the gas has water in it. What's the difference? It's a machine too! A good mechanical watch suffers the same fate if not used and wound on a daily basis. Wear and carry them once in a while, as even running in different positions keeps them in tip top condition, as you'll have even wear on all moving parts. Lots of little things going on inside that machine. Regards. Michaelson

Great stuff!

I just unearthed one of my grandfather's watches. It's at least 60 years old and I wanted to use it for my “Indy” watch. I was preparing to take it to a timepiece repairman to have it cleaned and set very shortly. Luckily, I’ll now know to always keep it running.

Thanks, Michaelson!

-Jonesing

....find those old watches, get 'em running again, and enjoy them! You're never going to see things made like that again, and they were built to last. Use them. They're still functional, and right in line with our hobby. High regards. Michaelson

I've seen a couple of nice watches on ebay whitch would probably look good. But I think I will keep lookin.
Regards,
Indiana

I spent about an hour reading each post after the last time I checked it. A lot of interesting information.

In America today the Rolex is a symbol of wealth (as mentioned in a previous post) In Europe a Rolex is considered an insult to quality because of it's "image" Omegas, however, are a common watch in Europe because they respect quality but could care less about brands. I own two Omegas that I treasure. One is a 1935 Omega Seamaster Professional with crocidile band, the other (the one that is on my wrist now) is a 2000 model Omega Seamaster Professional mid size (model number?) with black military band (the pattented lock clasp band is being cleaned right now)

I agree with Magnum that nothing beats a 1960's Rolex Submariner (the one with no bubble lens or date display. For a short period of time there was a yellowish tint to the lumninescent markings. That watch looked sharp.

What I am after now is the exact watch that Rundquist proudly owns. If I was Indy that is what I would wear, but being in Europe often I am sure he picked up a Rolex or Omega at some point. Regards. Dan

Fall Guy had alot of very interesting things to say about the subject (The guy knows his watches!):

Posted by Fall Guy on 1:19:55 7/27/2002 from 216.244.42.122:
I apologize for the following gear post. I was tempted to post it at the watch string over at COW, but somhow it didn't feel right.

What kind of watch would Indy have worn? Maybe a Gruen Curvex in the class room, and a Longines in the field.

Anyway, I'm afraid to say I'm somewhat of a watch aficionado.

Let's go over some basics:

Water, dust, shocks and magnetism are the enemy of watches.


During the 1930s, shock-proof mechanisms were developed, most notably the "Incabloc". Movements were also encased in a soft-iron inner case to protect the movement from becoming magnetized, but the most difficult thing was to water-proof a watch.
Rolex and Omega were at the forefront of developing waterproof and rustproof watches. Rolex introduced the Oyster in '36, I think. It became a hit and made Rolex famous. Rolex concentrated on the military market until they came out with their Submariner model in '54. That was their first civilian diving watch.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/steveno/oyster.jpg
Rolex Oyster (year?)


In the early '30s, Cartier followed Rolex and created a waterproof wristwatch, using a special crown, while Omega used a double case for its Marine model. During World War II, a watch like the Omega Marine did not cut it.

http://www.orologi.it/articoli/141/omega-file/OR50B.jpg
That's a 1936 Omega Marine


An interesting brand from the '30s is the Italian Panerai., a brand that still exists and still makes sinfully expensive diving watches for special forces.

http://www.panerai.com/img/catalogo/nuo ... el_all.jpg
That's a modern Panerai.


The WWII British forces issued the so-called "WWW" (WristWatch, Waterproof).
Anyway, large wrist watches have been around since the '20s. Especially pilot watches have to be read easily and in adverse conditions.


How about some other famous brands? Patek Phillipe had some cool watches way back when:


http://www.unrealwatch.com/uw/itemImages/269_s.jpg


What about a Breitling Old Navitimer?


http://writetime.net/navb.jpg
(From the '50s o '60s?)


Maybe a Longines Lindberg pilot watch would be a nice Indy watch?

http://writetime.net/lindbergb.jpg


Most modern mechanical chronographs use the venerable and time-tested Valjoux/ETA 7750 movement. There are some others, too, but most mechanical movements are now by ETA.


Here are some nice modern watches:


http://www.designbivouac.net/Fortis.jpg
That's a new Fortis with automatic movement and mechanical alarm. For few hundred dollars more, it can be bought as a chronometer (Certified for accuracy in different positions and at various temperatures over certain periods of time). That's one of the nicer new chronographs.


Here is a pic that shows two of my watches:

http://home.earthlink.net/~triphibious/watches.jpeg
Please, excuse the glare on the crystal.
Here's the back of my Sinn:

http://home.earthlink.net/~triphibious/sinn_back.jpeg

The titanium one is a self-winding Sinn (Known under the label Bell&Ross outside Europe) chronograph/chronometer with synthetic sapphire crystals top and bottom, anti-shock, anti-magnetic, waterproof 200 meters, 12 G-tested, 25 jewel Valjoux, 7750 movement. This watch is also filled with argon gas and has a cartridge that absorbs moisture. There is a little window that turns blue when the watch gets too saturated with moisture.
The beat-up black watch is a Breitling Maritime Military/Navy issue watch with an black anodized aluminium case (It's a fairly rare version of the famous Breitling Chronomat). It's also self-winding chronograph with a 7750 movement finished by Breitling. Of the two watches, the Breitling is the better one. It cost only a third of the Sinn. Of course, it's beat up by now. Cheap case and all...
The other watch is Ms Guy's Fortis. That's a traditional looking self-winding watch with an ETA movement. I love those clean lines! And it's super easy to read the dial in the dark (Will tritium kill us? )


Oh, there are so many more! I didn't mention Cartier (inventor of the tank watch), IWC, or Constantin. I didn't even mention the watch with the best movement! Zenith makes the El Primero. It's the ultimate

http://store3.yimg.com/I/watchseller_1692_7978467
El Primero


FG


PS: As for Rolex... Bah. Most of them are ugly (I hate gold watches), and the movements are not that good. And Omega? They used to make their own movements, but now they buy generic Hong Kong-made ETA like almost all the other watchmakers. Rats...

I know he was itching to post this here instead of at NIM, so I thought I'd do him the favor. I don't know diddly about watches, but seems to me there was some pretty good stuff there that should be included in this thread.

Hope ya' don't mind FG.

-Rabittooth

That's a great post, on any forum. Cheers