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The Keppler-Flightsuits jacket

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:25 pm
by Rundquist
I just got done talking to Lee Keppler and he gave me some details about his old jacket. (On a side note, it’s amazing how much information is available if you ask the right questions. Lee Keppler hardly comes around anymore, but Michaelson is here almost everyday). Anyway, I got to talking about taking some pictures of his last Flightsuits jacket from the mid 80’s (there are a few on the main Indygear site) and he told me that there already were some up on his site.

http://www.adventure-supply.com/propresearch.htm

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He also gave me some details (some of which I already knew, and some of which I didn’t). Lee’s jacket was partially derived from measurements of a jacket in the Lucasfilm archives. Lee had a contact there in 85’ that gave him jacket measurements of one of the jackets. What Lee didn’t know at the time was that the measurements came from a TOD jacket. At the time Lee didn’t make the distinction between a Raiders and a TOD jacket. He thought they were one in the same. There are obvious discrepancies between the two jackets, a few of which Lee addressed, since he was really going for a Raiders jacket.

The first was the pockets. Lee was told (By his collaborators at Flightsuits) that the pocket dimensions that he had were not what was in the Raiders pictures being used for reference (and it was obvious, especially with the TOD “midget pockets”). Lee had them make the pockets bigger to more closely resemble the Raiders pockets. Lee’s jacket also had one piece gussets, since this is all you could make out from the “stars” photo.

If you look closely at this jacket (it was the last one that Lee had made before his relationship with the old “new” Flightsuits dissolved), there are other differences between it and what was sold to the public (it’s too bad we don’t have access to one). As Lee learned more, he changed the details, at least on his personal jacket. The first is that this jacket is made of horsehide and not goatskin (this had nothing to do with anything other than a personal preference). Lee’s personal jacket also has rectangular sliders instead of pronged buckles. The production jacket that sold had single pronged buckles. Although Lee had contracted for double-pronged buckles with his vendor (and that’s what they sent him as examples), they delivered single-pronged buckles. Their story was that they no longer made the double-pronged buckles. Lee went with what they sent him. Another variance is that Lee had this jacket modified later (after it was originally made) to have 5-inch slit-openings in the back instead of two-inch slit-openings (which is how FS produced them per TOD spec).

One of these jackets was also sent to Peter. You can see some details that were incorporated into the LC jacket like the inside pocket leather facing. Cheers


PS- The site calls the jacket the “Keppler” prototype and this is how the jacket has been referred to in the past. However, the jacket is actually one of the last ones that Flightsuits made before they parted ways with Lee.

PPS- Here's a pic from the main Indygear site of Lee when the jacket was new.
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Edit - Lee wanted me to make it clear about what the “New Old Flightsuits” was. Basically Flightsuits was being sold to new owners in 86'. The new owners weren’t cooperative with regards to the manufacture of Lee’s Indy jacket. What ended up happening though was that Flightsuits was never sold. The same owners today own the company. Lee didn’t find this out until years later.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 5:38 pm
by Michaelson
Oh, Lee is around a lot more often than he lets on. :lol:

I'm around a lot LESS than I used to be, too! :wink:

Regards! Michaelson

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:17 pm
by Indiana G
nice post rundquist....lots of history there.

the hardware on the jacket looks quite odd to me. if they are indeed single pronged buckles, then the only way to hold the strap in is to penetrate the leather. since they are not center bar pronged buckles, the strap is just left to float out there in the wind.....kind of an odd design and prone to putting alot of stress on the prong/tongue in the event the strap gets caught on something.

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:26 pm
by Rundquist
Indiana G wrote:nice post rundquist....lots of history there.

the hardware on the jacket looks quite odd to me. if they are indeed single pronged buckles, then the only way to hold the strap in is to penetrate the leather. since they are not center bar pronged buckles, the strap is just left to float out there in the wind.....kind of an odd design and prone to putting alot of stress on the prong/tongue in the event the strap gets caught on something.
Those are rectangular sliders on the jacket in the pictures. It's Lee's personal (non production) jacket. Cheers


PS- I’d never have a pronged-buckle on one of my jackets. I don’t care how “screen accurate” it is. :roll:

Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 6:39 pm
by Indiana G
oh, i think i see the set up. he's going through the outer most slide, around the inside slide and then bringing it back out of the outer most slide. this is different than the standard, "through both slides and pull back between the outer and inner slider". interesting.......regardless, IMHO center bar buckles work better and are more screen accurate (without the prong of course).

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:41 am
by Ken
I've had the honour of wearing that jacket before - its wonderful

Ken

Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:55 am
by agent5
Thanks for posting that Ark pic. I'm always on the lookout for pics from that L.A. exhibit. Imagine if the props were on display like that today? Now Lucasfilm has a small sort of police force when bringing in and taking out props. All under lock and key.

Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:29 pm
by Captain D
I think I have one of Lee's old Flightsuits jackets. The color looks to be the authentic shade, and it's a size 40 S in goatskin. I don't really wear it all that much because I have longer arms and this jacket is a lil' too short on me. Other than that, it's a comfy jacket.

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 11:09 am
by PETER
Lee Keppler used to buy his jackets from me before Flighsuits but I have no knowledge of him sending one of his jackets to me and why would he?
It is not logical, I certainly would not have bought one from him and why would I. The leather surround on the inside pocket was to make the pocket stronger to take the grail diary but the design is not unique and had been around long before I or flightsuits ever existed.
Many moons ago I was accused of copying flighsuits pocket but I never heard of them until they ripped off my jacket well after the LC was made.
Cheers
Peter

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:48 pm
by Rundquist
Sorry kids. There’s no Santa Clause (I know some of you don’t like to hear that). Facts are facts. Anyone know where I can get a 1987 leather bell-hop jacket? Cheers

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:57 pm
by Rundquist
Yeah I’m pretty much done with this post anyway. There’s an obvious “lack of interest”. Cheers

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:02 pm
by Rundquist
Gotcha.

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:36 pm
by Dr._J
For the record, I'm totally interested. What you construe as "lack of interest" is really "speechlessness". It goes back to what Rundquist said about Santa Claus (or lack of). Most of the folks here don't want the boat rocked. Let them think what they want.

My sincere respect to you both.

Dr. J

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:43 pm
by Bogie1943
I also had the pleasure of trying on Lee's jacket. I've heard the story from Lee's own lips and I have always trusted in every word and always will. These were the days when Daniel Riser, Lee, myself and a few others were at the Queen Mary. _, Rundquist, agreeing with you all the way.

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:52 pm
by Indiana G
thats a good point. just because the thread isn't bumped doesn't mean no one is reading it rundquist. i've recently haven't bumped as many threads as i've use to but believe you me...i'm lurking :D

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:43 pm
by St. Dumas
Say, what's this news about Santa Claus?

SD

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:43 pm
by Ripper
:shock:

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Or.......

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Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:47 pm
by Indiana G
:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

what are you trying to do ripper...give me a coronary!?!?!? :lol:

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:09 pm
by Ripper
Not at all. :wink: I've noticed a few of these topics end in Santa, or strange men in green tights. :-s Strange.......

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:32 pm
by Chewing Wax
I'm very curious what the significance of the Keppler jacket is. I've seen it referred to for years but never knew what the deal was. The early posts from this string helped some, but it seems to me that the jacket is no more legitimate then the Expedition. Is it that it was created so early? That it was derived from a screen used jacket? It seems to have as many "flaws" as anything else out there as far as an exact replica. So many little tiny details are at stake, I don't quite understand what makes this Keppler jacket so important. Thanks for any explanation.

Also, Keppler's early ignorance about the difference between a ROTLA jacket and a TOD jacket, which seem obvious with any viewing of the two movies, leads me to think that he wasn't really that interested in creating a screen accurate ROTLA jacket, just an Indiana Jones type jacket.

Chewing Wax

Go Sabres.

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:55 pm
by Rundquist
Chewing Wax wrote:I'm very curious what the significance of the Keppler jacket is. I've seen it referred to for years but never knew what the deal was. The early posts from this string helped some, but it seems to me that the jacket is no more legitimate then the Expedition. Is it that it was created so early? That it was derived from a screen used jacket? It seems to have as many "flaws" as anything else out there as far as an exact replica. So many little tiny details are at stake, I don't quite understand what makes this Keppler jacket so important. Thanks for any explanation.

Also, Keppler's early ignorance about the difference between a ROTLA jacket and a TOD jacket, which seem obvious with any viewing of the two movies, leads me to think that he wasn't really that interested in creating a screen accurate ROTLA jacket, just an Indiana Jones type jacket.

Chewing Wax

Go Sabres.
Keppler was one of a select few that actively pursued Indygear in the 80’s (before the Internet, before dvd’s, and for a time, before vhs tape was widely available. The only way to get Indygear details was to look at photos or pay to see the movie (if it was still screening), and by making phone calls. Keppler actually cared very much about details. It’s amazing to me that his jacket even had gussets at all, for instance.

Lee got Flightsuits to produce this jacket (based on his notes and research), right after TOD came out. Shortly after (but before LC), Lee sent one of these jackets to Peter (of Wested) just so Peter could get the basic details of what constituted an "Indiana Jones" jacket. Peter’s “Indiana Jones” jacket at that time had shoulder pads and was waist length (hence the term “bell hop jacket”). Do you follow?

The Flightsuits “Expedition” is a completely different jacket (based on a screen used Terry Leonard stuntman jacket). I don’t get what’s illegitimate about that. Cheers

Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:37 pm
by Bufflehead Jones
I like bellhop jackets. Can I call you a cab?

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:25 am
by CM
I take your point guys. I've never understood how the maker of the original jacket could have lost the patterns to such a significant item. I've always wondered why the jacket looked so different in each film. But I guess you guys have now established that Peter didn't make the TOD jacket.

I'm looking forward to the new jacket section.

Regards -

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:22 am
by Chewing Wax
Thanks for the explanation. And I didn't mean to imply any illegitimacy. Merely equal legitimacy, thinking the importance of the Keppler jacket was that it was based on measurements of a screen used jacket just as the Expedition was. Not really important though. Now I understand that it is the historical place of the Keppler jacket and the interaction with Wested that makes it important.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:43 am
by Puppetboy
I've always wondered why the jacket looked so different in each film. But I guess you guys have now established that Peter didn't make the TOD jacket.
I think to be precise, the best information provided by _ and others idicates that Peter DID make the TOD jacket since they were left-over Raiders jackets. The exception is the Cooper jacket used during the scenes filmed in Sri Lanka. But you are correct if you mean that Peter did not make new jackets for TOD.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 am
by Indiana G
there is a story about how peter DID make jackets for TOD but someone "walked off" with them (i beleive that was the term that was used). i'm not sure how much water it holds........

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:45 pm
by Ripper
.......im mildly courious why Peter doesent respond to any of this ? Just for the record, im in your camp _...... :wink:

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 1:13 pm
by Chewing Wax
PETER wrote:Lee Keppler used to buy his jackets from me before Flighsuits but I have no knowledge of him sending one of his jackets to me and why would he?
It is not logical, I certainly would not have bought one from him and why would I. The leather surround on the inside pocket was to make the pocket stronger to take the grail diary but the design is not unique and had been around long before I or flightsuits ever existed.
Many moons ago I was accused of copying flighsuits pocket but I never heard of them until they ripped off my jacket well after the LC was made.
Cheers
Peter
Isn't this a response?

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 3:13 pm
by Chewing Wax
Excellent really.

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 4:06 pm
by Rundquist
It comes down to this. Peter made (most of) the movie jackets. No one can take that away from him. He makes the most affordable jacket on the market today. His jacket has gotten to the point where it’s really close to what was on screen. No one can blame him for not keeping details of the original jacket. How could he know that 25+ years down the line there would be freaks all over the internet dissecting the jackets. It’s forgivable. But there’s no reason to cover up and (or) deny the truth. The jackets will sell regardless. Cheers

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:43 pm
by CM
SPR wrote:Does anybody have a picture, or pictures of the "Bell-Hop" jacket? It would be interesting to see it.
Now you're talking. That would be awesome to see.

CM

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:04 pm
by Rundquist
It was actually on the Wested website years ago. _ can’t find his storage disk where he kept a copy of it. Lee Keppler does have a black & white flier for it. The next time I see him, I will scan it and post it. Cheers

Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:42 pm
by Dr._J
It's in the same file as the whereabouts of Jimmy Hoffa's body and photographic proof of life on other planets.

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:01 pm
by Dr._J
_, all I meant was the "bell hop" jacket is as mysterious as those other things. Plus, I'm sure some people would love to keep it secret. I was trying to be funny and failed. I'm friends with Lee Keppler and I know the true story.

Regards, Dr. J

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:03 pm
by Michaelson
...and as we ALL know..."the truth is out there....." 8) :wink:

Regards! Michaelson

Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:08 pm
by Dr._J
Well said my friend.

Regards, Dr. Spock....I mean, J

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:51 am
by Dr._J
No worries. I see how it could have been misread.

High Regards, Dr. J

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:00 pm
by Technonut
Image

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:23 pm
by Dr._J
Ah, there it is! ;)

Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 9:31 pm
by Indiana G
the yoke doesn't go high enough.

this message was paid in full by the members of the screen accurate camp and in now way or in part reflect the views of all the members in COW