Club Obi Wan

Handle loading for balance.
I have two Indy whips now; a Russell Schultz 10 footer and a Gus Caicedo 10 footer. At first I couldn't tell why Gus's whip did not feel as heavy as the Schultz. I was puzzled because both thongs are nice and thick, and Gus carries the thickness of the thong a bit further down towards the fall than Russell's whip. I've been having so much fun with Gus's whip though, that I forgot what Russell's whip felt like. I finally took both of them out for a little contrast and compare.
Now believe you me, I am in no way knocking Gus's craftsmanship, which is superb! But it became readily apparent the difference a heavily weighted handle makes. I don't know whether the object of a weighted handle is for the handle to weigh as much as the thong, or as close to it as possible, but the resulting heft firmly plants the handle in my palm, such that I don't have to hold on so tightly when I crack it.
I now carry both whips around as much as possible. Both whips crack beautifully. The Caicedo whip reacts well to the back-and-overhead crack, while the Schultz whip prefers the 'round the head and back out front method (not sure of the nomenclature ). Viva la difference!
With all this in mind, I wonder how easy it would be for Gus to load the handle for me. I would certainly pay for the service since I am in no way unsatisfied with the whip, just seeing if it's an easy enough post modification.
Cheers All,
Ravenswood

Do you mean load the handle of your current whip, or in a new whip? I'll let the experts answer whether you can wisely unmake and remake a handle with a new core or not.

As for the weight, understand it's just a difference in what they used for the core of the handle, and what materials they are used to and willing to work with. If they can work w/ a heavier core, it could be made heavier to begin with.

Adam Winrich has experience with both heavy metal cores and lighter (leather belly?) cores in a single model of whip...his first IOAB whips are HEAVY, because it's got an iron core - a spike or nail, I think - and the later ones were intentionally made much lighter. (Adam, whip me if I mis-stated that.)

Frankly, I like the heavy handle too, and I never noticed, but you're right - I'm not fighting to hold onto it. But it does work my shoulders more than the light whips when I've tried them.

(I am reassured in knowing that my whip doubles as a blackjack at close quarters.)

[quote]Do you mean load the handle of your current whip, or in a new whip? I'll let the experts answer whether you can wisely unmake and remake a handle with a new core or not.[quote]

Ah, that is definitely the question. From the sounds of it, I should probably buy a whole new whip and ask for a heavily weighted handle. This would be preferable to compromising the integrity of the whip that I have to remake a portion of it. Probably more involving than routine I would think.

There are other manufacturers I'm looking into as wekk, but my monetary situation is in a bit of a wrench as I write this. It's not surprising since I plan on collecting Indy-Style whips from just about every sincere maker out there. I'm HOOKED!!
P.S. Don't know how to do the quote thing, don't have time to find out because the guy who owns this terminal is looming nearby and his carpal tunnels are itching. By for now!

I've never heard of a whip that is already made being weighted considering most whips are weight around the handle by putting lead tape around the handle etc, unless they could just unbraid the handle but I'm not sure thats possible. More then likely you'll have to purchase a whole new whip and specifiy that you want a heavier whip next time. It also could be because Gus used a different handle compared to Russell. If you only plan to do basic cracks and do what Indy does and have a whip just like his, then no doubt a heavier handle is what you're looking for considering Morgan whips are pretty heavy.

I'm not a whipmaker, but I've read, talked to folks about the process and watched enough whip making to make a somewhat informed opinion. Any actual whip makers out there can add to or correct as they see fit.

The lead tape around the handle foundation in an Indy whip is SOMEWHAT accessible after the whip is made. I think you COULD theoretically remove the turks head knot, peel back the leather cover, (which is actually the head end of the overlay,) and add and remove lead tape as necessary, but I think this would be a BIG pain in the posterior, if actually possible.

As to actually changing out the handle foundation material, as near as I can tell, you'd be better off selling the whip, and getting one weighted the way you want. That handle foundation is at the CORE of the whip, and to get to it, you'd have to undo the whole darn thing. Easier to start over.

As to the weighting, that's all a matter of preference, though in my experience, having a whip that's handle-heavy is almost never done, (unless they're poorly made Indian or Mexican things.) So, adding lead might not be the best of ideas. Now, a heavy whip SHOULD have a heavy handle, but if it's a light whip to begin with, adding lead to the handle, might make a whip that doesn't crack easily or is harder to control.

I prefer my whips a tad bit "nose heavy" for a lot of stuff. My 6' Jacka whip is fairly "Forward weighted," (indeed it's my understanding that Jacka does not lead weight his handle knots. Underneath the knot, there's just a smaller turks head to give the outer one a little more mass. His handle foundations these days are also fiberglass or plastic of some kind.) This gives the whip a point of balance about 5-6 inches up the thong from the transition knot. The result is more mass on the thong end of the whip, (the really tight, almost tension-spring way the transition is made adds to this, and the whip cracks loudly with the slightest flick of my wrist. God, I love that whip!)

I find that I prefer my shorter-handled Indy whips to be a little more evenly balanced. All of the Indy-style, (i.e. 8" steel handle,) Strain's and Nolan's I've cracked and coveted could be balanced on one finger just a little bit ahead of the transition knot above the handle, (and this is regardless of overall length. 6 footers, 8 footers, and 10's alike balanced on my finger in the same way.)

This does make sense if you consider that the constant taper to the thong should reflect the constant drop in mass down the length to the popper. If
Speed = Mass X Force, then if the force remains the same, (i.e. the whip is well constructed and doesn't loose that much energy down the length of the whip,) then as the mass drops, the speed will increase.

So the transition between the handle and the thong should be a natural balance point for more efficient whips.

That's my round the barn view of things. Other whip crackers, (and indeed makers, especially Mr. Winrich; Engineer Extraordinarre might be able to shed a little more light on things, (and indeed to correct any and all physics mistakes that yours truly, the Communication Theory and Technology Scholar who hasn't had a physics class in 16 years might have COMPLETELY fouled up!)

All the best!

-Dan

Dan, you're clearly the most informed Comm Theory Guy I've ever met. Allow me to introduce myself, I'm The Pizza Delivery Guy.

Thanks Jerry!

I bow to your superiority, as in a college town, the Pizza Delivery Guy ranks above the mayor, and all college faculty in importance. ;-)

-Dan
(who is moving BACK INTO his college town after three years out in the sticks where there's NO broadband and NO pizza delivery. Looking forward to seeing the pizza delivery guy again. I've missed him.)

I myself prefer my handles without extra weight, this way I can move the whip faster and be more aware of where the body of the whip is at any given time. But my main style of whipcracking is multiple cracking, where the whip is moving from crack to crack and so on.

For fine target work, I do like a weighted handle, as it slows the whip down, and you can move your arm slower and let the weight of the whip do the cracking. My 10 ft Morgan, with a heavy handle, is about the only whip I can use in my basement to put out candles, all my other whips are too fast and don't allow for control. Many of my other whips, however, are faster, lighter, and actually crack louder.

Putting lead into the handle of your Gus whip would go just about like Dan Trout describes, and as far as repair jobs go it wouldn't be that hard of a job to do. However, your Gus whip might actually crack louder without the weight in the handle.

I don't know about balance points. I do a fair number of tosses and catches with my whips, and when you toss a whip up and watch it spin the balance becomes evident. It is very hard to do a toss with a heavy-handled bullwhip. To see if a whip is balanced, I just pick it up, give it a few cracks, and if it does what I want it to do with a minimal amout of effort, it's a good whip.

In closing, I say that, if in life a person should have a good assortment of friends, then in his whipbag he should also have a good assortment of whips. Viva la difference.

-Adam

winrichwhips wrote:In closing, I say that, if in life a person should have a good assortment of friends, then in his whipbag he should also have a good assortment of whips. Viva la difference.

Amen to that!

And I can see what you mean in terms of target cutting, a heavier handle slowing the whip down a little bit. The Jacka whip I primarily use for target cutting is a little thong heavy, and it's a faster whip than my whips with heavier handles. Most of my heavy handled whips are longer, and I attributed the shorter length of the Jacka with it's speed. Yes, length is a factor, but I remember now when I first got the Jacka how much faster it cracked than my other 6 footers.

Thanks, Adam!

-D

I guess I can qualify my targeting here:

Heavy-handled whips are good for targeting when using the FLICK (or thrown crack)

Light and fast whips are good for targeting when using CIRCUS CRACK (or forward crack, lion-tamer's crack, cattleman's crack, whatever you call it)

When using the flick, I feel it works best when the whip is heavy, so you can have the whip straight behind you and throw it lightly forward and get a good crack. Kind of the same motion as throwing a knife, and you get better accuracy with a knife throw when you make a nice, easy throw.

The flick is also easy to do indoors, as the body of the whip doesn't go much higher than your head. That's why I use the flick with my 10 ft Morgan to put out candles.

When using the circus crack, lighter whips are good as you have to move the whip a whole lot before it cracks, and a heavy whip will wear out your arm and shoulder.

The main thing in both cases is to have a whip that flows in a straight line, or at least a consistent line. If the whip is always an inch to the left, you can compensate. If it's an inch to the left one crack, and an inch to the right on the next crack, best to use a target that's more than 2 inches wide ;-)

-Adam