Club Obi Wan

Today I received my new Gibson & Barnes (aka Flightsuits) Expedition in dark brown lamb, size 40T. Since there has not been a lot of info (IMO) on this jacket, I thought I'd share my impressions.

As a point of reference, I own a dark brown lamb Wested made ca. summer 2002. I also used to own an Expedition in seal chrome goat.

What led me to the lamb Expedition is what I didn't like about the goat. I bought that jacket in 2003, right around the time the Expedition debuted. Back then, most of those on the forum who were going with the Expedition were highly enthusiastic about the seal chrome goat. (I think this is the reason there has been lots of info about goat Expeditions here, but not so much on the lamb.) That's why I went with the goat. It was a fine jacket, but I never really warmed up to it. The leather was much stiffer than the Wested lamb (no surprise), and it never draped very well to my eye. (This was after months of wear, crumpling up the jacket, etc., in an effort to loosen it up.) Plus, the color of the seal chrome goat was just too light to be a good Indy jacket, IMO.

What was right about the goat Expedition is true of the lamb: it is constructed with obvious skill, care, and precision. The "mil-spec" heritage shines through. Having said that, here's my overall impression of the lamb Expedition:

THE GOOD: The aforementioned quality leaps immediately to mind. My Wested has some "wandering" stitch lines, and one of the handwarmer pockets had to be resewn a few years ago. The Expedition has no such quality issues.

The jacket fits great right out of the box. I am pretty much an off-the-rack 40 long, and the jacket is spot on. It drapes very, very well, and I can see it conforming to my body without too much wear. It also hangs a little off the neck and onto the shoulders, which I like, much as in this picture:

The leather itself is impressive -- soft, with a wonderful grain, and more body and substance than my Wested. If you didn't know the original Indy jacket was lamb, you'd think it was far too luxurious for such a jacket. But the drape is just perfect for the Indy look, IMO, and the jacket is by no means fragile. It's not as tough as the goat, certainly, but I think it looks better as an Indy jacket. (If you actually want to beat the @#$% out of it like Indy did, the goat is no doubt a better choice.)

THE BAD: When I say "bad," I mean "imperfect." There's nothing truly "bad" about this jacket. With that in mind, the color is a little too dark. I still prefer it to the seal chrome goat, but it's nearly black, and could be a little richer or warmer brown tone.

I asked for a nickel zip if possible, but it came with brass. No biggie, I understand it's stock, but I'd prefer the nickel. My Wested has a heavier gauge zip, and I think that's preferable.

The big way in which the Expedition does not exceed the Wested is the collar and patch pockets. The double layer leather plus interface (fabric used between two layers of leather) really thickens these parts of the jacket up, impairing the drape of the body where the pockets are and stiffening the collar. I think this will lessen with wear, but it is noticeable. Also, the patch pockets are truly that -- they are sewn right onto the body of the jacket, so that the interior is leather. On my Wested, the patch pocket is cut into the body of the jacket, so that there is one fewer layer of leather (softening the drape), as well as a slightly larger, fabric-lined handwarmer pocket. I think the Wested wins on this point, though the G&B is probably stronger based on this method of construction.

Finally, while I've seen pics that appear to show this to be screen accurate on at least some jackets, the collar does NOT go to the center of the storm flap. It ends where the storm flap begins. I know this is a bone of contention for some of you, and that some Expeditions appear to be constructed differently. This isn't a big deal to me, but it is a detail worth noting.

THE UGLY: Nothing to report here. The Expedition is an awesome jacket right out of the box. If you are a standard size and don't want to worry about specifying a bunch of details in your Wested order, consider the G&B. I'll probably be wearing it a lot more than the Wested from here on out.

I'll try to get some pictures up later.

i thought expo's had the correct collar configuration and always have.....what's going on here???

I just got my GB goatskin Expo today as well. I noticed my collar does NOT reach the center of the storm flap either. It stops just above the the zipper,on the inner left end of the flap. Not as many posted pics show here. Still an exceptional jacket though,all other details seem right on. I can now appreciate the asking price.
raider 57

Congrats gents, that_dog AND raider 57! You've received fine jackets right there. I also own the dark seal lamb Expo. I agree about the pockets, and the way they effect the drape. Best thig you can do is "scrunch" them up a bit. if you notice, it is mostly the flap that stays rigid. That will calm down in time, though.
Again, congrats on a fine purchase.
'Blues

One of my BIGGEST regrets was not being able to 'fit' in a off the rack Expedition lambskin that Dave Marshall brought to the QM for me at the second summit.

The body fit me perfectly....but the sleeves were WAY to short....and I mean by almost 2 inches!! Dave was going to take it back to the factory and see if he could get longer sleeves put on for me. That was the last I heard of THAT jacket!

It was one of those things that I just flat missed out on, and never really found out what happened. One of the nicest lambskin jackets I've ever had the pleasure of almost owning.

Regards! Michaelson

I got both the Dark Seal Goatskin and the Lambskin sometime in early 2004 and the difference in the color (as I am now looking at them) is fairly negligible, although, if pressed I would say the Goat has a tinge more of a slight reddish hue were as the lamb has a bit more of a dark umber tone, but definitely NOT black. Of course it is nicely worn now and has developed a nice patina so I am not comparing brand spanking new jackets anymore.

At the time, I do recall feeling the same concerns about the "double layer leather plus interface" as you mentioned (and as many here have commented on) especially with the collar. It was and still is more noticeable with my Goatskin, but, after years of heavy wear I have grown to really appreciate the construction AND the drape and the 'too long in coming' natural distressing and graining. I never really experienced any of these problems with the lamb however. Back when Expeditions were somewhat cheaper and had more options available I recall these discussions were much more common. Regrettably, IMHO, it now appears (for a variety of reasons) that the pendulum of public opinion here has swung heavily over to Wested.

After all these years I still do not own a Wested so I cannot, and would not, compare it with any G&B I own as to craftsmanship or the quality of the hides used and have never gone that route. At the time I purchased my Expedition(s) I simply weighted all the information I had and concluded that Wested was a rather hit or miss proposition and the waiting period and the communication was far too long (even IF all went well). As you mentioned, the G&B "is an awesome jacket right out of the box" and that is what it's all about for me. No worries and no hassles and a generous money-back guarantee along with consistent excellent workmanship.

I did have some made-to-measure things done on some of my G&B's which they have unfortunately stopped doing a couple of years ago, so I can not say that I'm quite as enthusiastic about 'talking them up' as I was several years ago.

I also own a USWings VIP which is also a very nice jacket, but then again, I am not as concerned with screen accuracy as many on these forums appear to be.

That_dog please get some pictures up of your jacket when you can, I'm really considering buying one in Lamb and would love to see the grain and get a feel for what it's like. Also, I'm a 40 tall/long too and was wondering if you could post the length measurements please?

Also, does anyone have G&Bs vintage lambskin? I might be interested in it if the color is sort of russet (looks that way on their sorry website picture ) as opposed to being a distressed/mottled color - wouldn't care for that.

Doug C

Here are some pics of the G&B lamb, along with some comparison shots of my 2002 Wested Raiders lamb. Note the lack of facing on the G&B zipper, the heavier nickel zip on the Wested, and the difference in pockets. The leather is similar in terms of grain, though there are irregular areas on the Wested (in the pleats and at the vents, for instance), and the Wested is lighter in color and not as soft.








As for measurements, bearing in mind that I am no tailor, the back panel of the G&B is 21 1/4 inches high (plus the yoke of 5 1/4" = total height 26 1/2" from collar to bottom). Sleeve length is 25 1/2" from the top of the seam at the shoulder. Width across the front, zipped, right under the armpits is slightly short of 23".

Love that GB inside pocket

Love that G&B jacket, but the piping on the pocket flap seems a little on the thick side (IMHO).

Can anyone confirm if the lamb expedition has elastic holding the action pleats ? I think I read that the goat does ?

If that's true then that's good - and also what I understood. What worries me is that G&B wrote back saying there is no elastic. I wonder if this is a change or just lack of knowledge (a bit worrying if I'm going to drop the cost on a G&B). If anyone's ordered a G&B recently be keen to hear from you.

To piggyback on what Michael said, perhaps by "no elastic," they incorrectly assumed you were asking about knit cuffs, such as A-2's and many of their other jackets have?

While Dave Marshall cannot be replaced IMHO, one other employee who also helped me in addition to Dave was a man by the name of Drew Williams. If he's still there, here is his info:

Drew Williams

Product Specialist

Tel: 619.440.2700 x252

Fax:619.440.4618

drew@gibson-barnes.com

http://www.gibson-barnes.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good luck!

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

CRB wrote:If that's true then that's good - and also what I understood. What worries me is that G&B wrote back saying there is no elastic. I wonder if this is a change or just lack of knowledge (a bit worrying if I'm going to drop the cost on a G&B). If anyone's ordered a G&B recently be keen to hear from you.

'tis elastic, same with goat, standard ops per G&B. I need to post some pics. The top elastic is positioned about 3" below the bottom yoke seam and runs horizontally from one side of the back panel to the other. The bottom elastic is placed about 3" above the top of the straps, and is also horizontal, etc.

Sounds good ! My Belstaff has elastic on it too. I dont care if its SA or not but at least it will hold the flaps in - the Wested designs let them wobble out a lot of the time (except not on the Hero pattern though).

Tunaraider - custom, yes without a doubt, their sleeve length is way way too short for me, plus I can confirm a back length with them at the same time/cost.

I just received a new goat Expedition last week from G&B and yes it does have the elastic.

HDRnR wrote:I just received a new goat Expedition last week from G&B and yes it does have the elastic.

If you don't want to put them in that_dog's thread about his Expedition, we've got a general thread for G & B Expeditions over here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48537

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Thanks Schulte, I will try to do that but will take pics when I can get good natural light. The jacket certainly lives up to its reputation. I've always enjoyed that thread you posted.

Nebraska Schulte wrote:

HDRnR wrote:I just received a new goat Expedition last week from G&B and yes it does have the elastic.

If you don't want to put them in that_dog's thread about his Expedition, we've got a general thread for G & B Expeditions over here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48537

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte