Raiders and TOD side vent differences.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:21 pm

On top is my Raiders Wested and on the bottom is Noel Howards TOD jacket.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:33 pm

Very interesting Jason! To be honest, this is a detail on the jacket that I didn't even think about!!!

Thanks you for sharing this!

Regards,

Marc

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:19 pm

What get me is how astonishingly similar your jacket is to the TOD, move the position of the unsewn bit down a few inches and you are there.

BUT, are we sure this is a HERO TOD and truly representative of a TOD?

If it is then it's an easy fix.

Remember only 1 vendor even differentiates enough to give you a TOD or LC jacket.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:28 pm

What get me is how astonishingly similar your jacket is to the TOD, move the position of the unsewn bit down a few inches and you are there.

But thats not the case and I was hoping some would post about it. See, if all you do is stitch up the side vent then you still have the stitch underneath and also the side of the bottom back panel would still be curled around. This is a slightly different construction from the Raiders jacket, as is the much lower yoke and the smaller pockets. I wonder about the length myself. I'll have to go back and look at it more closely.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:44 pm

agent5 wrote:
What get me is how astonishingly similar your jacket is to the TOD, move the position of the unsewn bit down a few inches and you are there.
But thats not the case and I was hoping some would post about it. See, if all you do is stitch up the side vent then you still have the stitch underneath and also the side of the bottom back panel would still be curled around. This is a slightly different construction from the Raiders jacket, as is the much lower yoke and the smaller pockets. I wonder about the length myself. I'll have to go back and look at it more closely.

Can you show me on the picture what you mean, cos I'm really not sure?

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:56 pm

i believe what agent 5 is getting at is if you stitch up a raiders panel down to where the TOD jacket is stitched, you will not get the same creature as you still have this floppy "lip" apparent on the raiders jacket. on the TOD jacket, there is no lip like that so it is obviously cut from a different pattern. i hope i got it right as this is how i understand it.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:22 pm

The construction in that area is different on the original..there is no "mitred" corners on the backside of the back panel like the new ones have. Here's a picture :

Doug C

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:27 pm

Also, here's a couple of things that seem apparent to me from looking at the screen used jacket : I believe someone measured it and reported the bottom of the pockets to be 2.5" from the bottom of the jacket (I could be wrong) well it looks like the side vent "split" is open even with the bottom of that pocket to me, so a proper repro should be the same, only a 2.5" split.

Doug C

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:36 pm

Doug C wrote:The construction in that area is different on the original..there is no "mitred" corners on the backside of the back panel like the new ones have. Here's a picture :

Doug C

That is a may be, BUT ask yourself truthfully, does this mitre make a jot of difference if the vent is move down ti the 2.5"?

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:33 pm

Oh it could (probably) be moved down and still retain the new mitre but it still wouldn't be the same as the screen used jacket IMHO. The piece that is mitred (on the newer jacket) obviously just came straight down (on the screen used jacket) to make a straight edge even to the bottom hemm. That small piece and the big back panel joined side by side, with a top stitched seem - like the upper part is done. Of course this is all conjecture on my part, but it's what I see.

Doug C

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:29 am

Agent5,

That's exactly the point I made here

viewtopic.php?p=293835#293835

and here

viewtopic.php?p=293849#293849

and here

viewtopic.php?p=294418#294418

Nobody really understood what I meant, except you and Todd.

I was going to post a photo of my Wested, as you did, for comparison, if only I had not lent my camera to a friend who has not returned it yet.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:32 pm

The vent is of a different construction - it's not just a matter of stitching. The center back panel does not have a hem (facing) along the vent. You can see the 1/2" seam allowance showing through the leather along the vent opening. The lining has to be cut and installed completely differently (if it is not simply ripped loose and hanging).

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:50 pm

I've always thought that this area was a particularly complicated(ly) designed and constructed part of the jacket.. I tried on a US Auth Indy jacket about a year ago and they had done this part differently (than a modern Westeds) and now that I've examined this a bit, I think theirs was done more like the screen used TOD (except the opening/split was higher). I remember thinking at the time what a better job Wested does on their vents because the US Auth one kind of doubled back on itself and revealed the inner part of the vent leather a bit.

Doug C

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:59 pm

Guys look at the jacket that Terry is wearing in the pics that Agent 5 put up in the other post. It’s a TOD jacket (except that it’s really a Raiders jacket).

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:30 pm

Thanks everyone for puttiong things into the proper perspective. I had a hard time thinking of how to explain the differences and some of you had a good grasp on making it clear. At least I think so.

It’s a TOD jacket (except that it’s really a Raiders jacket).

Yeah. I wonder what the deal is behind it? Is it from another manufacturer? If I recall correctly, Noel said that it wasn't made by Leather Concessionaries and Peter agreed. I could be wrong, but I think that was the story. Maybe there is no tag and Peter simply forgot about making it? Maybe it was the very first prototype? These are all theories but one of them has to fit the real story.

Even though I'm strictly a Raiders guy, I've always loved the look of the TOD jacket and besides the nicely wrinkled/worn sleeves, I couldn't figure out what the differences were from the Raiders or TOD jacket until I began to look over TOD screen caps. I think it would be great to see someone do a proper TOD jacket with the right side configuration and larger yoke. I wouldn't want the side straps buckle to just poke through the leather but instead have the same type of rectangular side buskel that Todd is currently using on his Raiders jackets.

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 3:04 pm

Looking at that dusty stunt jacket - I could see them cleaning it up a bit and using it as the main hero jacket worn by Ford in TOD, I mean look at those upper sleeves they are accordianed way up the arm like the movie jacket is. When it came time to shoot TOD, they probably pulled this one out and guess what it's aleady distressed perfectly. I don't know - just throwing it out there.

Doug C

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:03 pm

Agent5
You and I had this conversation in January. Remember?

You guys who missed it might wanna read the relevant threads

viewtopic.php?t=20551&start=0&postdays= ... highlight=

viewtopic.php?p=287258#287258

viewtopic.php?p=287262#287262