Club Obi Wan

Has anyone else noticed this or received the email? Holy smoke!! another option for the jacket, and the other jackets aren't too shabby either!

I would love to see more pictures of this thing...please someone buy it and give us a detailed account!



Here is the
LINK

EDIT please delete post

You'll have to give us a FULL review, ob1al. I'm really intrigued by this jacket option. :junior: -IJ

what about Todds jacket...anything on that yet??

IndianaJones wrote:You'll have to give us a FULL review, ob1al. I'm really intrigued by this jacket option. :junior: -IJ

I'm not so much intrigued as I am confused. Another Indy jacket option? I can't quite see the point, but maybe that's just me. I'm very interested to see some further pics and read a good, honest review, so I'll be watching for an update on this thread once ob1al gets his jacket. I'm very interested to see what this new jacket brings to the table that some of the other jackets do not (or what it might do better, to justify it's price).

what about Todds jacket...anything on that yet??

As for Todd's jacket, maybe he'll come by and post an update. From what I have read elsewhere, his jacket is nearing completion, and the prototype has already been sent out and reviewed. I've seen some pics and the jacket looks pretty dang good and will have a few nice features to set it apart from the other offerings out there already.

-GCR

I got the e-mail today as well. The jacket looks very nice but to be honest I'm more interested in the non-Indy jackets that he's offering.

As far as Todd's jacket goes I have seen the prototype and read the review on it and IF all goes as planned it should make a nice addition to the jacket market. After seeing it worn and displayed by the very first owner I want one myself......

I'm sure once Todd gets everything worked out he'll stop by and let everyone know about it.

i'm just wondering who the first gear head will be to have one of each manufacture of jackets

i was looking at the other jackets on the site and wow i think i'm going to have to start saving my pennies.

If I judge by the collar and length of this jacket, it looks like a TOD jacket.

Why is there a pic of VP on Magnoli´s site?

GCR wrote:

what about Todds jacket...anything on that yet??

As for Todd's jacket, maybe he'll come by and post an update. From what I have read elsewhere, his jacket is nearing completion, and the prototype has already been sent out and reviewed.

-GCR

Oh, HAS it now? Well, I for one want to personally thank Todd for taking the time of posting his review here, as well as sharing the prototype with us, since he came here and asked for all our input, only to place his prototype report elsewhere, as well as his prototype in others hands. :evil:

Something else to remember when it comes to market. Our market input was important, but not enough for us to get to see and handle the jacket before it goes to market. THAT would be enough for me to decide to take a look at IM's jacket before Todd's now. Trust.

Thanks for letting us know, GCR.

Regards! Michaelson

Last Crusader wrote:Why is there a pic of VP on Magnoli´s site?

Why not?

"Why not?' indeed!

Regards! Michaelson

Perhaps Todd chose not to post here after the right royal grilling he got - and which Magnoli seems not to be getting. I certainly felt he was getting a good kicking for daring to "copy" the Raiders jacket. Now he'll be slagged off for not bringing it here first I guess.

Todd was warned from the get-go what to expect before he even posted his first question, so he KNEW what would happen, whether he started here or Indyfan.com. He also received TONS of input via PM's regarding points on the jacket, so for him to do information gathering here and not post results, photos or to share the prototype has told us quite a bit. He had as much support as he had detractors. This was exactly the same thing _, Lee, and I went through when the Expedition was developed and introduced, and we stood by our supporters through the firestorm. I thought we'd get at least that much of a fair shake from Todd. I see I was wrong.

Indy Magnoli hasn't said ANYTHING about his jacket. It was posted by one of his customers, as this was a low profile entry to his line by request OF his regular customers... not to fill a supposed 'niche' that the other jacket is supposedly filling.

Regards! Michaelson

I'm just wondering what kind of cordial things Peter will have to say about it when he see's it.

Guys,

It really doesn't do any good to get your "feather's ruffled" over Todd posting and sending his prototype to another site first. It was not like he was forced to do it that way. It was his choice.

I don't know who helped and who didn't behind the scenes with suggestions. All I know is that when he first announced it he got quite a public pounding over here which didn't happen elsewhere. So I personally can't blame him for not coming back right away either. I know a lot of people here are very loyal to certain vendors and I think that's very admirable but at the same time it doesn't leave much room for the vendors just starting out or whose names aren't the first one out of someones mouth. If someone says Indy hat the first name that pops out is AB, If someone says Indy Jacket the first name that pops out is Wested.

It's not that these people haven't earned the reputation that they got it's just that there doesn't really seem to be any room for movement. I guess if you think about it we should only have one vendor for each product......especially if they're the original, correct? Well, that's until they retire and then what? We don't have anything. I prefer the choices myself.....and that's has nothing to do with any disrespect against Peter or anyone else.

I'm not sure how IM jacket is. It certainly looks nice and it looks very my like a Wested. I'm sure there were requests for him to do one from his supporters but that still doesn't mean he's done anything different than Todd did. In fact from what I've seen of the prototype Todd's looks less like a Wested that IM's is.......Not trying to say that's good or bad I'm just saying Todd IS trying to offer something different......even though to be honest that's next to impossible because if you deviate to far from the Indy look it's just another A-2.

There is also another reason Todd hasn't made it over here yet. He had trouble with the company in India that was supposed to produce the jacket. They cancelled production because his requests were more complex then they could handle. So he's making the jackets himself. This delayed the project. He sent out the prototype HE did and wanted to see what the person thought who received it. Todd is now trying to fill the pre-orders and trying to decide if it's feasable to move on with the project because he'll be doing them himself.

I personally hope he does. The jacket isn't "distressed" but it does look worn in (not shiny) and has an 80's cut right out of the box. When I first saw the pic I thought the person was wearing a G&B jacket.....I think you guys would like it.

For right now though I think everything is up in the air. Once Todd decides on what he's doing next and feels like it's "safe" to post over here I'm sure he will.

Thanks, Pitfall. I will only speak for myself on this, and thank you for coming here and telling us where things stand. Speaking for myself, my loyality is to the members of this community and the best deal for an individuals pocketbook. I carry no one's flag.

One would have figured that this site and community would have at least rated that much consideration from a vendor who has made a decent living from our members, and used this area as a sounding board. At least he DID get the good AND the bad in terms of the pre-warned reviews of his project.

If he just wanted sugar coated responses, he sure was expecting a lot, and like I said, he was told he was coming to a hard core bunch of hobbiests.

At least I'm no longer surprised at how individuals conduct themselves anymore around this hobby. I was absolutely stunned last year, but am just deeply disappointed now, and conduct myself accordingly. Trust is something earned, and once tossed away, hard to re-earn....at least with me.

Once again, Pit, you're a good man, and your report much appreciated.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

It's not like we couldn't see this coming, right? I mean, Magnoli had been a member and mod here for a LONG time. A very trusted individual with an untarnished reputation. He makes the pants, shirts, bag, for cripes sake, even the boots! We had to see a jacket coming at some point.

I say more power to anyone who wants to have a go at it. Indygear isn't the only place to sell this stuff even though it is THE premier place to go for it. I would think that instead of bombing any new gear out of the door before it can even be fully produced is bad for all of us. I've said it all along that I think that it's in the best interest in all of us to have more vendors...more choices. Doesn't that just make sense?

I know more choices makes it harder to make that final gear decision but if you do the homework you can look over the choices and see what's best for you in terms of functionality, screen accuracy, price, etc. I can understand people have favorites, but you can always stick to your favorites if you don't like the other choices. It seems too simple to me.

Why anyone would want to bash Todd or Tony for giving us another product, another option, is beyond me.

If you don't like it, turn the page... :arrow:

agent5 wrote:Why anyone would want to bash Todd or Tony for giving us another product, another option, is beyond me.

Come now, agent5, you know the answer to that one as well as I do. Human nature, plain and simple.

Some folks enjoy the hobby in a general way (I'm in that group), others count stitches, and unless a certain item is an EXACT duplicate of a piece of gear seen in, say, Raiders 1 hour, 33 minutes, 22 seconds, 15 frames into the master film....it's ain't right!! If that's what floats their boat, ok, what ever. It makes them happy I suppose.

I don't understand it either, but it has kept things interesting around here, hasn't it?

Regards! Michaelson

I couldn't agree more with agent5, there is nothing wrong with having more to choose from. I personally like it because if you are on budget you have more financial flexibility when shopping for a new Indy jacket, I personally don't care about every spec of the jacket being screen accurate just as long as it is a good looking jacket . Just my two cents anyway!

Michaelson wrote:Thanks, Pitfall. I will only speak for myself on this, and thank you for coming here and telling us where things stand. Speaking for myself, my loyality is to the members of this community and the best deal for an individuals pocketbook. I carry no one's flag.

One would have figured that this site and community would have at least rated that much consideration from a vendor who has made a decent living from our members, and used this area as a sounding board. At least he DID get the good AND the bad in terms of the pre-warned reviews of his project.

If he just wanted sugar coated responses, he sure was expecting a lot, and like I said, he was told he was coming to a hard core bunch of hobbiests.

At least I'm no longer surprised at how individuals conduct themselves anymore around this hobby. I was absolutely stunned last year, but am just deeply disappointed now, and conduct myself accordingly. Trust is something earned, and once tossed away, hard to re-earn....at least with me.

Once again, Pit, you're a good man, and your report much appreciated.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Well, I wouldn't say any of us "sugercoated" anything over there. At least I don't believe I did. IF it would have turned out to be @#$% I would have told him that. Well, not like that ......but I would be honest about it and I'm sure Todd would want it that way.

As a collector and a fan I was really interested in seeing what Todd had to offer. Like many of you here I've been very happy with the stuff I purchased from Todd in the past. So I was interested in this project from the start. Todd's always been very easy to do business with. Todd is also a very nice guy.

I'm sure he knew full well when he first announced the jacket that there was going to be some "backlash" toward the project but I don't think he realized it would get as ugly as it did.

Regardless of what he did and didn't expect I can see why he'd be a little bit hesitant on returning with pics and updates....Like I said I still think a lot of that has to do with the trouble he's had. I don't think it would be in any vendors best intrest to alienate a portion of the market. To be honest this project really sounds it's been a pain from the start. I HOPE he doesn't give up on it all together. The jacket looks good to me and it seems to fit the requirements of some of you right out of the box. I would post shots of it but I don't want to step out of turn......That's something that Todd or the jacket's owner has to decide.

I guess what I don't understand is I don't see the same reaction with Magnoli's new jacket as I did with Todd's......Why is that? I'm not trying to start something because to me it makes no sense to be tougher on one vendor and not the other. It doesn't seem to be an equal playing field. Unless the vendor is constantly scewing the customers over I don't get the hostility toward someone who for the most part has been offering gear at a reasonable price. For people like me who are on a limited budget I'm very grateful for vendors like Todd being around. I love the budget holster I got from him. I dyed it and added a barrel plug it's worked out beautifully and it wasn't hard to do.

You guys have every right to ask questions and be critical about a product being offered. Just don't be to surprised though when the vendor doesn't go out of his way to offer any new info regardless of how brutal he knew it was going to be going into all of this.

davefelker wrote:I couldn't agree more with agent5, there is nothing wrong with having more to choose from. I personally like it because if you are on budget you have more financial flexibility when shopping for a new Indy jacket, I personally don't care about every spec of the jacket being screen accurate just as long as it is a good looking jacket . Just my two cents anyway!

That's where it all falls down.

The new additions seem to be going to India or China for their production. There is NOTHING wrong with that. But they should be cheaper than EU and US made product. It's just the nature of those markets and their costs of living. Both are either the same price or more expensive than UK, so how does that work?

Now it looks like Todd is having to make them himself and the price makes more sense. But hey like I've said all along, it should cost no more than $250. Magnoli too.

It doesn't seem to be an equal playing field. Unless the vendor is constantly scewing the customers over I don't get the hostility toward someone who for the most part has been offering gear at a reasonable price.

I'd have to say it never really has been a totally equal playing field. Alot of arse smackin around here alot of the time. Not at all the vendors fault but the fault of some of our members.

I've always said it was about either biased members giving reviews on products they favor or members who have no real experience in all the products we have available to us who seem to always give unbalanced reviews, which in the end hurts us all.

What gets me is that there have been vendors who have shown for whatever reason, their unreliabilty and even though it had been well documented members still continued to buy from them. That's exactly why we can't candy coat anything. Of course, there is a clear cut difference between being rude and offering your opinion or criticism. There are some absolute regulars who have no shame when it comes to speaking the truth, but we all have to understand there are ways to do it with respect. This should without question, include not only every member but also every vendor who used this forum as a vehicle to sell their product. There should be no favortism. None.

I've stuck my nose in business like that one too many times which I'm sure Michaelson can recall. Now I try to stay low, look out for myself and with a good eye. All of the necessary info is here if you do the homework and have a decent ability to read between some of the the lines which are clear cut, but especially those which are not.

Pitfall Harry wrote:[I guess what I don't understand is I don't see the same reaction with Magnoli's new jacket as I did with Todd's......Why is that? I'm not trying to start something because to me it makes no sense to be tougher on one vendor and not the other. It doesn't seem to be an equal playing field. .

Well, like I said above, in Todds case he came to the site and announced he was producing a product to fill a needed 'niche' for this hobby, here was his plan, and what did we think. He asked for input, good, bad or indifferent.

To date, Indy Magnoli hasn't said a word. It was one of his Magnoli' clothing regular customers who posted this information, not Indy Magnoli. It was a low profile request by his regular customers to create this jacket, and he quietly put it on his site for anyone to find. THAT'S why there hasn't been any earthquakes. One vendor announced with a blare of trumpets that he had something he wanted input on...the other only created it because his customers asked him to make one. Todd announced that he had OTHER customers besides our crowd who wanted this jacket, while Magnoli has it available if anyone is interested. Period. Horns and whistles by one vendor, no comment one way or the other by the other vendor. Different approaches all together, and because of that, different response by the community.

Speaking for myself, I found out about Indy's jacket at the same time everyone else did.

Oh, agent5, your only problem is you are one of the most PASSIONATE folks I know in this hobby, and sometimes that passion gets in the way of the message....but saying that, ANYTHING you post I know I can take to the bank any day of the week.

Regards! Michaelson

I think what he's trying to say Michealson, is that even though Magnoli didn't make the announcement himself, why aren't the same people who badgered Todd months ago now in this thread hounding Magnoli in the same way?

As I said, I think it irrelevant to hound either of them for giving us more product and choices, but it is kind of odd that this thread hasn't gone the same route. Not that I want it to, but that's the point Pitfall is making...I think.

Oh, agent5, you're only problem is you are one of the most PASSIONATE folks I know, and sometimes that passion gets in the way of the message

Unfortunatley this is the story of my life. I not only do this with gear, but all other facets of my life as well. Being misunderstood makes it quite difficult to get your point across at times.

Sorry to throw this monkey wrench in but, Todd didn't start either of the two posts about his new jacket. Both were started by other members here.

viewtopic.php?t=18868

viewtopic.php?t=19587

Also, I have been over to read about Todd's jacket at the other place mentioned here. The first of Todd's jackets, or the prototype if you will, was purchased by somebody over there, the first day it went on sale too. Also, even though it's a prototype, it looks spectacular!

No offence to my fellow COW members, but in light of the way this thread is shaping up already, I don't wish to contibute to this topic any further and won't be posting a review here.

Sorry guys.

True. 'Hounding' solves nothing and only causes hard feelings.

In this case, input was not requested by Magnoli. He just made a jacket by request. If wanted, fine. If not, fine.

Todd, on the other hand told us there was a 'need', and folks said 'there is?'

It went downhill from there. Oh, not so Willie. The links you posted are the ones still in existance. The starter posts by Todd were moved due to how inflamatory they had become and they predate the ones you list.

Sorry to hear that, ob1. I was looking forward to a balanced report. Sorry to see you were scared off.

Regards! Michaelson

Case in point. Todd got such a reaming that the threads had to be deleted because of it. Nobody is reaming Magnoli, just giving him a fair shake. It's easy to comment about what was said in threads that no longer exist.

Also, Magnoli sent this announcement out to everyone that ever bought anything from him. That is hardly quiet.

Also, Magnoli sent this announcement out to everyone that ever bought anything from him. That is hardly quiet.

True, but you cannot deny he kept it private.




Al, I wish you'd reconsider. We should all look forward to your review.

The bottom line here people, is that if you don't like it you don't have to buy it.

More is better.

True, but like I said, information was requested, and folks got ugly. Even Peter Botwright got involved. Never called for, and the blood in the water only attracted more of the same. Nothing constructive was offered after a certain point, so things were reined in.

Quiet? Yes, absolutely. Before this was posted, were you aware of Magnoli's jacket? Were you aware of its existance during it's development? Did you receive one of the mentioned emails? I believe a vendor would be missing the boat if they DIDN'T send product announcements to their paying customers. Don't you agree? Otherwise, quiet? Compared to the other situation, you bet.

Willie, you only became a member here last month. How long have you been following Todd's jacket project?

Regards! Michaelson

Zomg, this might be the beginning of JWII (Jacket Wars II).

I did know about the jacket a few months ago actually. I read a post about it at Thepropzone.com, and have purchased something from Magnoli in the past. It's the trumpet fanfare introduction versus the humble, quiet mentioning thing that I find a little suspect.

I have only been a member here for a short time and usually prefer to just read and move on. However, the jacket thread is public and can be read by non members 24 hours a day. I have been an Indiana Jones fan since 1981, so my interest isn't new either.

Well, I don't have a lot to add here other than I am the one that recieved the 1st jacket from Todd (Prototype).

I ordered it and paid for it the very first day that it was announced. I have been behind Todd all the way on this project and the 5 month wait for the Jacket was well worth it.

I have always been impressed with Todd's leather work and knew that I would not be disappointed and I wasn't.

I think once he gets the jacket into full production he is going to get one heck of a lot of orders.

Cheers,
G-MANN

Very good, Willie! Glad to see you around, and I appreciate your input!

Appreciate the review, G-MANN. Hopefully we'll get to see one of Todd's production prototypes before he starts taking orders, considering we did give him input on it's creation, even if he DID go through the prewarned firestorm. It's just disppointing to be coming in on the back end when help WAS offered and taken from our community. I know I'll be more cautious in offering my advice from now on to vendors wanting my input, and Todd and I exchanged quite a few PM's while this was going on.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson,

I'm sorry you feel so slighted! I haven't posted anything here because things are still up in the air with the project. And it seems the less I post, the better since it always leads to a war somehow.

I will put an update in the vendor's section to fill you in on the latest news for those of you who are interested. Perhaps that will free this post for discussion of MAGNOLI'S jacket.

Todd

Puppetboy wrote: I'm sorry you feel so slighted! Todd

Not just me, Todd, but everyone here who provided you with input, but got nothing in return from you regarding progress....then we read that those reports and a prototype have been posted and reviewed elsewhere?.....what did you expect?

Good luck to you anyway.

Michaelson

This is the last thing I have to add.

In Todd's defense, he is not the one that posted the review nor the pics of the prototype. That was me. I figured since I was the person that bought the 1st jacket that I could post the pics wherever I chose to.

I would have posted them here however I am not willing to deal with the criticism that may occur. For that you have my appology.

If Todd has taken any pictures of the Jacket he made especially for me he is more that welcome to post them here.

Cheers,
G-MANN

PS: IM's Jacket does look like a nice offering, very Wested looking.

That's easy to understand, G-MANN. Input and critiques were offered to Todd here, he made a prototype, you purchased the rights to the first jacket, and are withholding photos so you can post them at your site as Todd stated in his vendor post. No mystery, and completely your right to do so. As Todd also told us in his vendor post, quote ,"G-mann asked to be able to post his jacket over at his own web site before making it "public". unquote, so you bought those rights from him for an exclusive report. It's not what we do over here, never have, and never will, but you do what you think right with the information.


So, Todd, ball's back in your court again. With G-MANN's posted permission above, do you have any photos to post in your vendor announcement of your jacket ?

As to the Magnoli jacket, we already have a posted photo above, and the one individual we KNOW purchased one is now telling us he won't post a review now, so I believe we're now at the end of that discussion.

Regard! Michaelson

Michaelson,

Sorry, I didn't get photos of it before I sent it off. As I mentioned in my vendor post, I was in a time crunch, plus I didn't consider it "photo worthy" yet. Still a few things to tweak... plus I will change leather. It was a "one of a kind" jacket. Once I get "the" leather, I will take photos so people can see what they can actually buy.

I also apologize for not taking the time to update things here. It's been hectic and I've been ill (in fact, I'm home sick today). The next few weeks will be really busy and I won't have much time for jackets, so there won't probably be anything new to report until next month.

Losing the manufacturer changed everything. Now it's not a standard "off the rack" product anymore, it's custom work. I don't even know if I will proceed with it at all. So it's premature to be making announcements about a new product just yet. There might not be a product at all.

Todd

Understood, Todd, and thanks anyway.

Sorry to hear you're ill. If you have what's been floating around our area, all you can do is hunker down under the covers, keep warm, and drink plenty of fluids and let it go it's course.

Regards! Michaelson

What I don't get is we get bombarded when things go South and are pulled in to correct things and now when things are civil, there's complaining that there's no lambasting going on.

... ah the intricacies of being a moderator.

I have no hat in either ring so I will refrain from opinions on anyone's jackets, but I don't understand the logic of wanting confrontation. We cannot predict (though as has been stated we do try to warn) what people's reactions will be to any given topic. We can only correct behavior once it has occurred. Might seem reactionary, but we try not to be the police state we're so often accused of being.

There should definitely never be a reason for anyone to fear posting reviews due to fear of recrimination. Unfortunately this hobby does have its zealots, but we try to do our best to keep things under control. There are times when Mod aren't around where things may get out of hand, but we do clean it up when we're back and available.

It seems to me that fear of being blasted for a review is an easy out for someone who wants to 'take their ball and go home' and try to fester the bad blood that seems to have cropped up between here and other sites. I assure you I harbor no ill will towards any other sites as I purposely don't visit any others. I learned that lesson long ago. Makes my life a lot more pleasant.

With that said, if there's nothing new here, lets move along... move along...