Club Obi Wan

Let's talk facts.

Look at Wested LC below



I hear many people saying that the LC jacket has large pockets (I believe we all agree that the jacket in the photo is LC) and that FS make the most screen accurate jacket.

It is also accepted by this forum that the Raiders jacket had small pockets, smaller than the LCs. I remember also reading that TOD had small pockets too.

Now if we say that the Raiders had small pockets (or at least smaller than LC's) and we all agree that TOD had smaller pockets, (I think Peter also agrees on that) and also we all agree that the pockets in the photo above are small, then my friends look at the photo of the new FS below



and tell me where do you see the small pockets and where is the screen accuracy?

Well the pockets on my Wested look like they are closer in size to your bottom pic.

Hard to tell, Platon. We know Ford wore a size 44R in LC. What size is the FS jacket you're showing in the second photo. We need to know if we're comparing apples to apples in sizes here.


We've also heard a LOT of reports like Masterfulks above. Wested pockets have been all OVER the chart, but it's going to depend on the actual jacket sizes. In the past, the pockets were already pre-cut, and many times you'll find the same pocket on a size 40 as you'd find on a 48. Needless to say, the pocket is HUGE on a 40 (appearing like the second photo), and tiny on a 48. Same pocket, different jacket sizes.

So, with this in mind, continue your proof of the 'hypothesis' in your subject title? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious how you think these photos prove that hypothesis?

Regards! Michaelson

Also, does everyone say that all of the LC pockets were larger? I thought that they were made larger to accomodate the Grail Diary. Perhaps that was only for a few scenes?

Kind regards,
Magnoli

Michaelson wrote:Hard to tell, Platon. We know Ford wore a size 44R in LC. What size is the FS jacket you're showing in the second photo. We need to know if we're comparing apples to apples in sizes here.


We've also heard a LOT of reports like Masterfulks above. Wested pockets have been all OVER the chart, but it's going to depend on the actual jacket sizes. In the past, the pockets were already pre-cut, and many times you'll find the same pocket on a size 40 as you'd find on a 48. Needless to say, the pocket is HUGE on a 40 (appearing like the second photo), and tiny on a 48. Same pocket, different jacket sizes.

So, with this in mind, continue your proof of the 'hypothesis' in your subject title? Not saying you're wrong, but I'm curious how you think these photos prove that hypothesis?

Regards! Michaelson

My Jacket is a 44R btw. It's suposed to be the Temple cut, but the distance between the jacket bottom and the pocket bottom is closer to the FS pic above, rather than the LC pic.

Although I'm one of those people that feels that if you have to line up a stream of pictures to tell what's what then it's close enough for me.

PLATON wrote:Let's talk facts.

Look at Wested LC below



I hear many people saying that the LC jacket has large pockets (I believe we all agree that the jacket in the photo is LC) and that FS make the most screen accurate jacket.

It is also accepted by this forum that the Raiders jacket had small pockets, smaller than the LCs. I remember also reading that TOD had small pockets too.

Now if we say that the Raiders had small pockets (or at least smaller than LC's) and we all agree that TOD had smaller pockets, (I think Peter also agrees on that) and also we all agree that the pockets in the photo above are small, then my friends look at the photo of the new FS below



and tell me where do you see the small pockets and where is the screen accuracy?

I'm not so sure the Raiders pockets were as small as you make them out to be (or as small as you claim everyone makes them out to be, I guess). I'm also not so sure that the long held belief about the LC pockets being bigger is true. According to the IndyGear jacket page, it was the INTERIOR pocket that was made larger to accomodate the grail diary, not the external pockets. Here are some shots of the RAIDERS jacket. Comparing it to the picture of the FS you posted, the pocket size seems much closer, and FS is, I believe, only reputed to be screen accurate when compared with the RAIDERS jacket.



Pockets look fairly big here.



Pretty big here, too.



And this one is harder to make out, but it also puts the location of the pockets (in relation to the bottom of the jacket) in perspective.

Also, I agree that the FS jacket in that pic does seem a bit on the large side, an accurate comparison can only really be made between jackets of the same size, and who knows what size EITHER of those jackets is? The Smithsonian jacket could have been Ford's, which would make it 44R. My 44R Wested looks MUCH smaller in overall size when compared to the pic of the FS. Besides, who knows what strange adjustments or alterations might have been made to the jacket pattern by the time LC rolled around. If my memory serves, Peter Botwright didn't even make the jakets for ToD, as they were instead copies of the original Raiders jacket made by a French company. That would leave a good 8 or so years in between when Peter made the jackets for Raiders and when he was then commissioned to produce new jackets for LC. We know they added the press studs on the storm flap, so who knows what other changes might have been made? I'm not trying to say that FS is the best and Wested stinks, so don't get me wrong. I only own one Indy jacket, and it's a Wested. I just don't think your comparison is totally reliable, as you're asking us to compare a Botwright made LC jacket of unknown size with a Raiders style FS, also of unknown size. If you can find a screen-used Raiders jacket, and an FS in the same size, then by all means, let the comparison and reviews begin! But to say that Wested is the Best, without even including a current Wested design in your analysis, that doesn't seem quite right to me.

-GCR

Although I may be mistaken, but...

If I remember correctly, the second pic that Platon posted as supposedly a "new Flightsuits jacket" is NOT actually a new Flightsuits jacket afterall.

I think I have seen that pic a long time ago when Lee Keppler first began his Flightsuits Indy jacket project. This Flightsuits jacket pic, that Platon has listed for us, is actually a pic of one of the first Flightsuits jackets ever produced by Lee Keppler and is indeed one of the prototypes. Since then, better front pockets were altered in order to be more Raiders screen-accurate and have already been changed on today's Flightsuits Indy jackets.

Unless I'm wrong (someone please correct me if I am), that is a prototype Flightsuits jacket since back when, and is not the latest Flightsuits offering as far as the pockets are concerned....

Kindest Regards,
Captain D

Captain D..You are correct about that not looking anything like a Flightsuits jacket. I have two, and neither one resembles that jacket in cut or color. Until Peter goes back to his older designs, the G&B Flightsuits jacket is the most screen accurate Indy jacket on the market.

Here are pics of the two jacket pockets. Wested on the left, Flighsuits(Gibson and Barnes) on the right. Wested is much larger, as you can see. I have two Flightsuits, both have the same size pockets(screen accurate Raiders)

[img][img]http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1720/1001478nv5.th.jpg[/img][/img] And the full pic- [img][url=http ... .jpg[/img][/img][/url]


[img][img]http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5797/1001483sg1.th.jpg[/img][/img]


TR

viewtopic.php?t=18208

According to this, you are mistaken about Ford's size being a 44.
He is ...

Noel J. Howard : NHowardUk@aol.com

Harrison Ford's sizes :

5' 9 1/2" (1.765 m) height, 40 chest and 34 waist with a 15 1/2" collar.

Shirt : Medium
Trousers : 34"
Web belt : 44"
Gunbelt : 38"
Bag Strap : 65"
Boots : 10.5

and that makes him a size 40R.

And now if you compare this photo



with this...



you will see that again Wested is a winner.
In that photo the FS pocket looks more than a A-2 pocket. The Indy jacket has distinctively larger pockets than the A-2.

and also that the original design FS (the one by Lee Keppler above) was more accurate than the current one.

and now it's time to alter the subject a little bit.

That picture has always been up for debate. It's taken with a 'fish eye' lens or something and is distorted in dimensions. Look at the bottom of the pocket seem, it's almost righ at the jacket bottom, something is wrong with that..

TR

No, it's not.

I think I've lost track of the point you are trying to make.


TR

Texas Raider wrote:I think I've lost track of the point you are trying to make.

Me to..but I'm loving the pics!

Texas Raider wrote:That picture has always been up for debate. It's taken with a 'fish eye' lens or something and is distorted in dimensions. Look at the bottom of the pocket seem, it's almost righ at the jacket bottom, something is wrong with that..

Not to mention Ford's head is almost the same size as the Idol, and the Idol is supposed to be roughly the same height as the pocket... that is a weird pic, perspective-wise.

Which of the below jackets have the largest pockets?

According to Noel Howard in an email to me, Ford was a 40R for Raiders, and a 44R for LC, as the movies were made 9 years apart, and he had put on a little more middle aged spread by the 3rd movie. The jacket in the first photo is an LC jacket. If we take Noel at his word, and the jacket shown IS an LC jacket worn by Ford, then it's a 44R.

Peter Botwright himself has stated on many occasions here that the outside pockets on the LC jackets were intentionally made big to allow for the journal to be slid in if required, so Peter is the source for the 'large pocket' on the LC jacket information. So, you're saying Peter Botwright of Wested Leather is wrong, and yet he still makes the best jacket out there. I'm confused now.

So, once again, what does all this have to do with your subject title regarding who makes the best jacket?

Regards! Michaelson

This is the reason I had to ask for smaller pockets on my next Wested after this one. I had asked Peter to take one inch off the bottom of the standard length for a Raiders jacket in my size and with the standard pocket size being what it was, this is how it turned out. Rediculous in terms of screen accuracy. I think it looks cool, but I was going after what was in the film and as you can see, something is way off. Keep in mind the bottom of the jacket is still several inches below my pant line.

I honestly think alot of this has to do with camera angles and as with ribbon on hats, even a half an inch off will give you a different perception of the entire outcome. It begins to create illusions.

Looks like you could have packed a BIG lunch in THOSE pockets, '5'!
Those pockets are bigger than the ones on the FS jacket!

Regard! Michaelson

I agree w/ Michaelson, I'm also a lil' confused about Platon's point he's trying to make. Especially, when Platon mentions how the prototype FS was more screen-accurate than today's modified FS pockets...

I'm assuming that he is suggesting that the FS prototype, with the larger pockets, appear to be more screen-accurate based on these photos from Raiders....

In the pic of Indy holding the idol, look how large his right hand is. It's huge! I bet he could wrap his entire hand around my head, lol.

Kind regards,
Captain D

I have another photo of this Smithsonian jacket, sent to me by a member here last year, that's a head on shot. What you don't see in the photo above are the snaps that are installed on the storm flap of the jacket. Were these installed on the TofD jacket as well?

I've sent the photo to Mike to post here for me when he gets a chance so you can see what I'm talking about.

Regards! Michaelson

I'm lost, too. But let me say this: A year or so ago, I ordered a Raiders jacket from Wested, with no real modifications. I think it's a 46R. In any event, the pockets on my jacket are definitely big enough to hold a Grail Diary -- I've tried it with the Grail Diary I got from Magnoli. I don't know if that means Wested is (now?) making pockets on all its models large enough to hold the Grail Diary, or if they are (now?) scaling the sizes of the pockets to match the size of the jacket (so my diary fits my pockets because of my, uh, girth).

Randy

You have a 'girth' problem too?

Regard! Michaelson

I keep telling my wife I'm not overweight -- I'm just under-tall.



Randy

And that's why I didn't order the 80's fit style from Wested.

I tell them I'm maintaining my 'hourglass figure'....my problem is, all the sand has gone to the bottom.

Regards! Michaelson

My sand has settled in the middle . . .

Randy

Scandinavia Jones wrote:

That is an outstanding jacket. Pockets are sized perfectly. Distressing is pitch perfect. Give us the specs on that!

by the way, the large pockets are obscene.

I would have bought 2-3 westeds by now if it weren't for my fear of getting those hand eaters.

milesfides wrote:That is an outstanding jacket. Pockets are sized perfectly. Distressing is pitch perfect. Give us the specs on that!

Thank you, milesfides! Here's the thread on the jacket, edited per your request...

_ wrote: Personally? I would not mind seeing them drop the handwarmer and just sticking with the patch-pocket. Simple and more period-accurate. Also eliminates an infamous stress point - I've had a few Wested's fail there and have had to have the pockets restitched...

Agreed. I can honestly say I've never USED the side entry pockets on ANY of the Indy jackets I've owned over the years. They're 'screen accurate', but totally useless in my case, as I have large hands, and they just don't fit, so they're a lint catcher.

Regards! Michaelson

I use my side entry all the time.

Mainly for keys.

If you're ever stuck tied to a chair with someone, while the place is on fire, where are you going to have your lighter if you have no side entry pockets?

With my luck, my Zippo would have already fallen OUT of the sidepocket before we even GOT to the chair.

Regards! Michaelson

Agent5,,DOOD!! Those pockets look big enough for YOU to actually climb into!! LOL

GEEZ, man,,what the heck happened there?

TR

Scandinavia Jones wrote:

milesfides wrote:That is an outstanding jacket. Pockets are sized perfectly. Distressing is pitch perfect. Give us the specs on that!

Thank you, milesfides! Here's the thread on the jacket, edited per your request...

Honestly, of all the jackets posted here, and all the threads about distressing, few have looked as screen accurate as yours.

You have inspired me to go for the authentic lamb temple, but in size 38 I hope the pockets and collar are proportional to the jacket as those on yours.

The most recent Wested I got -- which is probably the oldest one -- is probably most screen accurate, and I wear it every day, but the hand warmer pockets really are too small for my hands. Oh well, it's not very cold in Phoenix anyway . . .

Randy