A question about a Herbert Johnson

[Mississippi]

Hey Fellas,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if Herbert Johnson ever put an I.J. on the sweatband of one of their hats. I just bought an HJ on ebay and the description spoke of this.

thanks

[IndyParise]

Not from factory, no. But it could have been custom done or Herbert Johnson could have done it custom.

[Mississippi]

The only thing i can make out on the sweatband is the herbert johnson name, and the word "street" and "london"

[Farnham54]

Can you link to some pics? I believe if the auction is finished, it's OK to link to it, but someone may wish to correct me on this.

Cheers
Craig

[Mississippi]

I've got a couple of pics, but they are not the best quality. I was told it was bought in 1992 from an antique shop, so i have no idea how old it could be.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/pepsipaysme ... 2353553189

[Scandinavia Jones]

The hats Swales sold in the 90's and early 00's had the I J embossed on the sweat. He also mentioned that the screen used ones had the initials embossed "for accuracy" in the complementary "Brief history of the Indy hat" letter.

[geo]

The screen-used hats had IJ 1, IJ2, etc. on the sweatband. Is it possible that yours is a screen-used one?

[agent5]

Maybe the guys name who owned it was Ice Jackson or something?

[Erri]

On my HJ I have the letters N H P. The previous owner's initials of course. If you have I J, I suppose it's just a coincidence... although a very curious one!

[Scandinavia Jones]

Did you guys read my post?

Richard Swales, Herbert Johnson shopkeeper, was the person who most (if not all) fans in the old days ordered their HJ's from. When an Indy hat was ordered, they could be customised with the "IJ" or, of course, personalised initials if the customer so desired.

Many Swales-era Herbies have the initials. BryanLange, you are lucky to have obtained one of those hats.

Brief History of the 'Indy Hat'.

Dear XXXX

When Herbert Johnson Ltd was situated at 13 Old Burlington Street quite some years ago, I was working in the shop alone when two gentlemen came in and introduced themselves as Mr. Harrison Ford and Mr. Stephen Spielburg [sic], who was the shorter of the two. Mr. Spielburg announced that he was on the brink of making an adventure film with Mr. Ford as the central character and said a hat was required as pivotal to the character and the plot. I asked if there was a particular period involved, they didn't want anything too specific, so I suggested employing the oldest shape still being manufactured and carried in open stock, a tall crowned wide brim fur felt called 'The Poet', as it had been made continuously since the 1890's and was 'ageless'. As the character was to use it in different terrains a shade of brown called Sable was chosen.
To make the hat very distinctive, I shaped the brim into an ovoid to give protection to the eyes and neck, reducing the sides also helped with camera angles. The brim was pulled down to give an explorer/safari look, the original ribbon being changed from 2" to 1 ½" to make the crown appear even taller. This I did whilst my customers were present and they appeared pleased. I made a note of what I had done as the original hat was to have a 'test run'. It evidently worked as the following week I received an order for 45 units of assorted sizes, 10 size 7 ¼" for Mr Ford and the remainder for assorted stunt extras.

Just to make the hats authentic each one was initialled 'I.J.' for Indiana Jones.

Since the huge success of the films, I have the pleasure of making dozens of 'Indys' for the aficionados.

Yours sincerely,
Richard A. Swales (handwritten signature)
for HERBERT JOHNSON LTD

More on the initials:
viewtopic.php?t=9168

An old thread re: my old HJ (the one in the above pic):
viewtopic.php?t=9163

[Doctor_Jones]

Very nice to see the inside with those golden letters. Maybe I should go to England myself and have look over there.

[Toldog07]

i saw that hat on ebay myself and asked the seller when it was purchased. He said it was purchased in 1992, so this was not a film used hat. I dont know when HJ started to go south...anyone have an approximate year?

[Mississippi]

The seller told me that it was purchased from an antique shop in 1992. So if he was right the hat has to be at least 14 years old. The fact that it was bought from an antique shop naturally makes me think that it may be older than 14 years. I'm basing that entirely upon whether or not the seller's statement was accurate. I cant make anything out on the sweat except for Herbert Johnson, London, and what i think is "street". I think that the IJ may be right under the Herbert but i have no way to be sure until I get the hat. Is there a program i can use to make the sweatband readable?

[Scandinavia Jones]

It should say either 13 Burlington Street (which would be cool) or 10 Old Bond Street. Those were the shop addresses before moving to it's present-day (54 St. James Street, Swaine Adeney Brigg store) location.

Check out the embossing once you have the hat on hand - you might be able to see traces of the letters when looking closely or with a magnifying glass.

[Strider]

Hey Scandy,

Did you put this in your signature?

Last edited by Indiana Jerry on Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total

Because it appears at the bottom of your post under your signature graphic. If you did, it's very Andy Kaufman-esque, and sure had me going. If not ..

[Scandinavia Jones]

Hey Scandy,

Did you put this in your signature?

Last edited by Indiana Jerry on Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total

Because it appears at the bottom of your post under your signature graphic. If you did, it's very Andy Kaufman-esque, and sure had me going. If not ..

What can I say... that Jerry fellow learned a LOT about these things in the COW server room... or was it the boiler room?:-k

[Dakota Ellison]

Is there an HJ logo on the liner? Look under the sweatband for a paper sticker that will have the year the hat was put together.

[Fedora]

Wow,I am behind the curve on the HJs. I never knew one could specify the "IJ" on the sweat. I knew this was on the hats that Mr. Swales had left over after the last film, and he retailed them out to customers. I just never knew he would do it upon request. I learned something!! I can't keep up with the progression of addresses of HJ, but seems like it was 13 Old Burlington, then 38 New Bond St. But I have seen 30 New Bond St mentioned as well. Then I recall the last move I think to 54 St. James. I found an older, different address while doing online searches a few years ago and recall giving it to Dakota who was studying up on the HJ at the time. I lost it in a pc crash. Fedora

[Dakota Ellison]

They were at 38 New Bond St the first half of the 20th Century until 1965.
13 Old Burlington from 1965 til late 80s-early 90s?
30 New Bond til mid or late 90s
54 St James currently
Swales would do the IJ on the sweat on demand as far back as the Indy hats go. I asked him to do my initials on one side of the sweat and IJ on the other side but he refused on the one I actually ordered from him. He wouldn't do two.
I think HJ was at 45 New Bond in the late 1880s when Herbie J first started.
You can find HJs that have one address on the sweat and another on the liner.

[DeWayne]

The hats Swales sold in the 90's and early 00's had the I J embossed on the sweat. He also mentioned that the screen used ones had the initials embossed "for accuracy" in the complementary "Brief history of the Indy hat" letter.

Yep, mine has that. If I remember right, Swales asked if I wanted different initials on there, I told him just to leave the IJ. Glad I did.

[Indiana G]

any pics of that dewayne?