Club Obi Wan

Thanks for the new Adventurebilt, Steve. I ordered it back in May (2006) and it arrived Nov 18, restoring my faith in good people. Before I get a "Worthless without a pic" reply, I've no digital camera of my own. It is brown and is styled like the Raiders hat. I'm sure you've seen one like it before, but if you need to see a photo of what it looks like, go to Steve's Adventurebilt Hat page. Mine says Fine Fur Felt. Did I get the beaver I wanted and paid for? If so, why doesn't it say beaver fur or beaver felt? Since my HJ from Todd says it's not made to withstand any rain, I thought I needed to beef up my hat collection with one that could. Who knows, I missed the QM summit this year, but next year might bring a rain forest or Macchu Pichu if I hit the lottery.

Even though it doesn't say "beaver felt" on the inside, if that's what you ordered, that's what you got. I got a beaver felt hat, and mine doesn't say "beaver felt" on the inside. I think the AB deluxe hats say that, tho. Congrats on getting your new lid. Steve always delivers.

Steve always delivers.

Was there ever any question that I would not?? Look guys, I know it takes awhile to get one of these, but have you looked into the lead times from most western hatters? They are the only ones left using hand operations like me. What I mean to say is, it is not unusual to have to wait. The wait time is normal for hats made in this manner. And, it won't get too much better.(if I can get it back down to 12 weeks, I will be a happy camper) If you are making any hats in numbers there has to be a wait. If you are not making any hats, then the wait is short. If you can wait on a hat from me, you are getting a pure beaver hat at 1/2 the price of normal retail. Please, if anyone is nervous about waiting, buy an off the shelf hat. I am not being a smarty here, just trying to let ya know.

On "fine fur felt" being on the sweat, this was done so I could use one sweat for 3 different felts, when I first started. It was a money issue since the die for the printing on the sweats cost me 300 buks. not to mention the additional 1000 dollars needed to buy the 2 extra cases of sweats. I may get new die made if I switch sweatband companies though. Been thinking about using Singer as they have a softer sweat, and use American sheepskin.

Did I get the beaver I wanted and paid for?

If you ordered beaver, you got it. You get what you pay for from me. And sometimes, more than you pay for.

In the grand scheme of things, waiting for months on a hat that will last you the rest of your life is not so bad. If you crunch the numbers. Fedora

I still can't understand how people are still shocked at the wait time. It's not like it's not posted about everyday.

still can't understand how people are still shocked at the wait time. It's not like it's not posted about everyday

I understand the hard part is the waiting, regardless of what you are waiting for. Much of this is a cultural thing, today, 2006. We are the instant gratification generation. The emphasis is on speed. Every road that leads to my town is dotted with fast food joints. We have express lines in the grocery stores. Our cars go faster, communications are faster. The key word is speed. It is no wonder a few months wait time drives us bonkers. The thing is, if you want speed, the hats suffer, or the food. The wait time is a necessary evil, if you want a handmade hat. Of course, I am biased, but to me the wait is worth it. If you look at what speed has done to the hat market overall, it is not a good thing. Not if you like good hats. In cabinets and in hats, when the speed goes up, the quality goes down. You can't have it both ways. Since I refuse to use a factory to make my hats(I could do so if I wanted) and also take pride in every hat these hands make, there will always be a lead time. Now, if you were waiting for a factory hat for months and months, that would be a harder thing to endure, at least for me. Those hats are cranked out at a rate of one hat every 2 minutes!! They look like it too. Fedora

Steve , you are so right. I guess I'm to busy to think about things that I might be waiting for. The other thing is I kinda like having something to look forward to ( like a new and great hat).

Fedora wrote: Was there ever any question that I would not??

Not at all. Me saying that you "always deliver" is more of a testament to your integrity than it is me trying to be reassuring. I've bought 3 hats from you since I started, and I am fixing to pay for a fourth, so believe me, whenever there's anything good to be said about a hat, you're the first person I talk about. Also, his post kind of had this feeling about it, like had been gypped more times than he wanted to admit, and the fact that you came through had "restored his faith in people." So, in that regard, I was just saying: "Oh, yeah. Steve always delivers." Sorry if it came off the other way.

Fedora wrote:I understand the hard part is the waiting, regardless of what you are waiting for. Much of this is a cultural thing, today, 2006. We are the instant gratification generation. The emphasis is on speed. Every road that leads to my town is dotted with fast food joints. We have express lines in the grocery stores. Our cars go faster, communications are faster. The key word is speed. It is no wonder a few months wait time drives us bonkers. The thing is, if you want speed, the hats suffer, or the food. The wait time is a necessary evil, if you want a handmade hat. Of course, I am biased, but to me the wait is worth it. If you look at what speed has done to the hat market overall, it is not a good thing. Not if you like good hats. In cabinets and in hats, when the speed goes up, the quality goes down. You can't have it both ways. Since I refuse to use a factory to make my hats(I could do so if I wanted) and also take pride in every hat these hands make, there will always be a lead time. Now, if you were waiting for a factory hat for months and months, that would be a harder thing to endure, at least for me. Those hats are cranked out at a rate of one hat every 2 minutes!! They look like it too. Fedora

I saw hats at the local store today and I wasn't impressed with the quality. I did get a Tilley Fedora earlier this week and as it good as it is, your Adventurebilt hat is far better. Having ordered one myself, I don't mind the lead time. If it was hurried, I would have been stuck with a hat that wasn't properly sized for me. Some people say you should order one size up but I feel that at 7 1/4, I have found my size - its neither too big nor too small. Anyway, I think in this age of instant gratification, the ultimate gratification is the pleasure of awaiting something that is well made. That can be said of few goods these days which have no real value after the money spent on them because they don't feel like someone made them for you. This hat is being made for me and it puts the modern hats from the more prestigious brands to shame. I shall look forward to receiving my Adventurebilt once it has been finished and then wear it with pride.

Just wanted to pop my head in here for a second after reading this post, Norman. You bring up a point that we try and state when it comes up....

One thing that I had a hard time getting used to in having custom work done was to just supply a measurement to the craftsman when making an order, rather than supplying a 'size'. If you supply exactly what your head measurement is, you then leave it up to the hat maker to determine what will and won't work in his materials to work on your head. This 'sizing up' or 'down' never has made any sense to me after finally getting that into my brain. You're making a guess, and hoping it works. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. As Steve has posted many times before, just because a block is marked a particular 'size', there's no guarantee that the block has not shrunk over the years, and therefore the 'size' is no longer true. If you tell him your head size is, say, 22 3/4 inches around the area you were your hat, then he checks the measurement of his blocks, and finds one that's exactly that measurement. No guesswork involved.

When you guess, and it's wrong, it's your fault. If you just supply your exact measurement, and it doesn't work, then the hatmaker (or jacket maker, or any other custom clothing maker for that matter....) has to make it right. This goes for Wested, or AB, or JPDesign, or....you get the idea. You're having something specifically made for YOU!

I just thought I'd try and plant that seed again next time someone orders custom. It makes life easier for everyone involved in the transaction.

Ok, back to your regular programming.

Regards! Michaelson

Yes, I'm pleased with my new hat and was aware that there would be a long lead time. All I was trying to convey was that I'm glad that Steve made good on his promise. I have had problems with other vendors not delivering prepaid goods, so my faith was restored. Thanks, Steve. I really knew you would come through. My hat fits very well and looks great. My earlier purchase was a Herbert Johnson and while the two hats look very similar, I know that if the weather looks bleak (yes, it happens once in a while in Phoenix, Arizona), I can feel good about my AB. I know of one other sale that Steve had due to my referral and that guy is happy with his hat, too.
Thanks, once again.

Mark
(Wishing that I could have made the QM Summit this weekend. Any posts from the folks who made that yet?

Yes. Go to the 'scrapbook' section for the report.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote:. If you tell him your head size is, say, 22 3/4 inches around the area you were your hat, then he checks the measurement of his blocks, and finds one that's exactly that measurement. No guesswork involved.

I know my hat size cold. I also know the European sizing is 58 cm. My jacket's usually large or 42 or 52 in European sizing. With regards to shoes, I wear a UK 8, American 9 or European 42. Shirts are large and pants are 36/30 and shorts 36. So I don't have to measure my sizes. know exactly what fits me so I don't have to do a return or go into a dressing room to try something out. That helps with Internet purchases.

I know mine too. Problem is, I've had more incorrectly sized hats arrive at my door supposedly made IN my hat size that it's pathetic. The same thing with jackets. Don't assume just because you know your sizes cold that what you're going to receive is going to be right. They won't be, I assure you, and I'm speaking from years of experience here.

But don't take my word for it. You stay in this hobby long enough and have to deal with these issues as many times as many of us have, you'll find out on your own. I'm putting that advice out there for folks who haven't given this any thought. It's apparent you don't need this advice, and I'm pleased for you. You're lucky, and I hope your luck never changes.

Regards! Michaelson

know my hat size cold. I also know the European sizing is 56 cm.

This would be a great time to address hat sizing. I work off of head measurements. I used to work off of hat sizes, and spent quite a bit of time re-sizing hats that I had made. The first year was murder!! Now, the problem lies in the fact that hats are not consisently sized. At least American hats. You can find at least 3 different and contradictory hat sizing charts online. It has always been this way. So a size 7 1/4 hat can yield either a 22 5/8, a 22 3/4 or a 23 inch hat. If you bought a hat from X and it was 22 5/8, and it fit great, then turned around and ordered my 7 1/4, you would have gotten one that was 22 3/4. Too big. And this fact caused me lots of extra work in the first year of selling my hats. I chalked this down to inexperience. If you are buying a custom hat, you need to supply your head measurement. I will have fewer mistakes in this way. If you measure your head properly, the sweat will be cut to fit that measurement. Therefore, it should fit. I always try and tell folks to pull a cloth tape around their head, 1 inch above the brows(this works well for Indy hats as they are normally worn low), and pull the tape as tight as you want the hat to fit. It is better if someone can do this measuring for you, as they can keep the tape paralle to the floor. Imagine the tape is the sweatband of your hat. Measure at least 3 times and if you don't get the same measurment each time, average the 3 and give me the number.

When I bought an HJ last year from Todd, I ordered the 58, since I wear a 7 1/4 hat in most brands. The hat ran small. It fit me like a 7 1/8. So, use your head measurement whenever possible.

Yes, I'm pleased with my new hat and was aware that there would be a long lead time. All I was trying to convey was that I'm glad that Steve made good on his promise. I have had problems with other vendors not delivering prepaid goods, so my faith was restored. Thanks, Steve. I really knew you would come through.

Wow, I did not know!! I have been lucky in my online buying. We have some really good vendors hanging out here, and TFL as well. Good people. I was a member here long before I offered my hats. I gave free reblocks for a couple of years or so to learn the basics. I had to wait once for many months on a Keppler Beaver Brand hat, and I got a bit impatient as I recall. So, I have been where you guys are. And, I will be there again in the future. But with me, if I am waiting on something special, I tend to be more patient, at least outwardly. Inwardly though, I am more impatient with something that I really, really want. Yeah, I've been there. Fedora

Hey, I tried, Steve. Maybe they'll listen to you. What do I know?

Regard! Michaelson

Hey, I tried, Steve. Maybe they'll listen to you. What do I know?

We hit em' with both barrels. I thought it would be a good place to extrapolate a bit, regardless of what hatter one uses.

On a side note, I am reblocking(just finished) the very first rabbit hat I ever made!!! Over two years ago! I wish I would have taken pics, before and after. Amazing enough, and surprisingly enough, the hat had minimal taper present. It was still a great looking Raiders fedora, and had been worn to the point that the stiffener had broke down completely. Really soft and floppy. I got to see my workmanship from over two years ago, and it is gratifying to see an improvement over the stitch work. This rabbit felt has held up really well, although it is a much more porous felt than the beaver, and not near as water repellant. But, it looks good. Even the lower quality rabbit from my felter is heads above the modern Stetson stuff. This one reminds me alot of the Akubra Deluxe felt, once that felt gets broken in well. So, you guys that got in on the Rabbit deal from me, I think you will like this felt. Just get yourself a can of water repellant treatment and use it often. From the looks of this one, I doubt you will see any premature taper. I think it will hold the shape better than the Federation, but you guys be the judge of that. Once the Federations get a few years of age on them, they will get more stable, and the Akubra felt is durable enough to last that long too. I am rambling here. Fedora

Fedora wrote:When I bought an HJ last year from Todd, I ordered the 58, since I wear a 7 1/4 hat in most brands. The hat ran small. It fit me like a 7 1/8. So, use your head measurement whenever possible.

What would really save a lot of work and exchanges is having a uniform size across hat brands. The Euro sizing seems to work well with other apparel. Of course if one doesn't really know, one may order it a size too small. But the knowledge is handy to have in ordering next time, so there's a solution to every problem.

Once again, speaking for myself, I've had MORE trouble with the euro sizing than a hat acquired in the States, but then I'm sure it's due to my head shape....long to extra long oval.

If you're a standard 'round', it's going to be a lot closer to fitting than what I experience, as any deviation from my actual head measurement seems to be worse when I try to put it on my head shape, as it's forcing a round shaped hat into an oval. Looks nice, but VERY uncomfortable! At least to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson wrote: If you're a standard 'round', it's going to be a lot closer to fitting than what I experience, as any deviation from my actual head measurement seems to be worse when I try to put it on my head shape, as it's forcing a round shaped hat into an oval. Looks nice, but VERY uncomfortable! At least to me.

Regards! Michaelson

Good point! Head sizes can be accomodated but no hat maker can accomodate head shapes. It would be better to make a plaster mold of the top of one's head and ship it off to the hat maker. They do that for hair piece systems and in theory it should result in the manufacture of a perfect hat as well - truly customized for that individual customer alone.

WELL, that's not quite right either. A hatmaker CAN and DOES create hats for the head shape. It's all based on the block shape required to make the hat. You tell them the measurement and head shape, and they pull the block that's required to form the hat TO that shape. That's another reason why it takes Fedora a bit longer to make a hat, as he's pulling blocks and finding the best head shape/fit for each order.

There are a few old time hat makers that ship a device called a 'conformer' that you place on your head and adjust several items that conform exactly to your head shape. You then send the conformer back to the hat maker, and he makes the hat to your exact head shape based on the measurements he gets from the conformer. Not very many do that anymore, as the conformers are expensive, and most don't even have them anymore.

Off the shelf hat makers don't bother, and that's why custom is the way to go for head gear for this buyer. At least 9 times out of 10, that's the way I go now.

Regards! Michaelson

I had a friend who had a custom hat made and he made the mistake of getting a very short (burr style) haircut right befor the fitting. He then dicided to let his hair grow out and then the hat never fit agian. So my 2 cents is measure your head with the most hair you will have. When I get a fresh cut my Akubra fits loose for a couple days.

Michaelson wrote: Off the shelf hat makers don't bother, and that's why custom is the way to go for head gear for this buyer. At least 9 times out of 10, that's the way I go now.

Regards! Michaelson

For most people an off the shelf hat will do as long as they fit the standard hat size. For people between sizes, the only way to go is custom. After all no off the shelf hat will exactly fit their head both comfortably and in the correct required dimensions.

Very true. The only thing that buyer will have to decide is the quality of material rather than worry about the fit.

Regards! Michaelson

I would just like to add, that when there is something I REALLY want, my impatients escallates by the same degree. From this aspect, impatients is indeed a complement to Fedora , his established credability and product. What do you think?